+1 DAOC, still the best designed PvP game out there
Controls and actions for RPG's were well established, before MMO's. Morrowind comes to mind. Many of the basic mechanics were settled long ago, and MMO's had to conform to that.
DAOC was an early design, and was brilliant. EQ was also. These games set the course for the next generation, based on the past. of RPG's. WoW was the ultimate result of that.
This probably represents 15 years of development by now, and it is hard to break out of 15 years of optimization.
It is hard for me to understand why DAOC, designed long ago, is still the high water mark.
Well said. I weep for those who never knew DAOC or early EQ1; how they missed out.
Nah .. i played EQ1 since beta. I missed nothing. Modern MMOs are much better games (for MY preference).
Quick survey, how long did you play EQ 1 for vs how long have you played any single MMORPG since 2006?
Just curious.
How long would we have played those MMO's prior to 2006 had we had more options?
Had i had more appealing options while i played FFXI, i certainly don't think i'd have spent 7 years in it. It's difficult to let go of your first love without something drawing you away.
While i do miss certain social aspects of older games, i don't miss any of the time commitment mechanics.
Why do a few people want to turn MMO's into FPS games?
It's actually not "a few people", on neither end, game designer or player.
FPS are quick junk/fast food-like: you log in, you play for a map or 3, you log out again and have your fix.
If you as a player get an extra reward for your character i.e. new gear, new level, etc., cool, even better.
For the game designer it's really just designing a small map with very limited options, something that you see even the least professional people turn out en mass in FPS.
So, why try to open up a first class restaurant and get people into it in the early evening hours when you know perfectly well that having a chippie next to a nightclub is guaranteed to bring in a strong crowd all starved and not really caring if those potatoes are fresh or a week old ;-)
+1 DAOC, still the best designed PvP game out there
It is hard for me to understand why DAOC, designed long ago, is still the high water mark.
Because odds are you started out in Midgard...or Alibion after the first year of release...because if you played in that "other lolz" realm...you wouldnt think DAOC was the best designed PvP game after being spanked for so many YEARS for playing in the redheaded step child realm of DAOC.
+1 DAOC, still the best designed PvP game out there
It is hard for me to understand why DAOC, designed long ago, is still the high water mark.
Because odds are you started out in Midgard...or Alibion after the first year of release...because if you played in that "other lolz" realm...you wouldnt think DAOC was the best designed PvP game after being spanked for so many YEARS for playing in the redheaded step child realm of DAOC.
You know what realm im talking about...
On my server, starting with a 'P', the Hibs were dominant. I played an Alb, in the early days, and did a lot of RvR. The Hibs dominated most of the time. The Mids were the underdogs, mostly, on my server.
Tell me if you've heard this one before: "Trammel ruined Ultima Online."
Whenever I'm asked this, I just want to retort with: "Why?" But I know the answer I'll get:
"Pre-Trammel UO was a magical place full of comradery and wonder, where there was a real sense of community and danger wherever you went. Trammel destroyed all that."
Which is funny, because I know some people who played Pre-Tram UO, and their description was a bit different:
"Pre-Tram UO was a horible place full of griefing jackoffs who spent all their time waiting outside towns and dungeons for vulnerable people to step out, kill them, and take all their hard-earned loot. Top brass PVP guilds went out of their way to ruin the game for everyone else, especially new players, and nothing could be done about it. Trammel finally did something about this, but by that time I had quit to play Everquest. Oh, and if anyone tells you that subs for UO dropped after Trammel, Everquest was why."
And it's not just the Pre-Tram crowd that irks me. Wanna know why there was no dungeon finder when SWTOR launched? Because the vocal minority asked for there not to be one. And then the non-vocal majority went "WTF?" when the game went public. And yet I still hear people complaining that "The Dungeon finder is what Ruined WoW and should never appear in another game again." Which is funny, because if the MASSIVE amout of complaining about it's absense in SWTOR (amougnst that game's many issues) is an indication, most people thought the Dungeon finder was a wonderful idea.
Everywhere I go I hear all the same complaints: We don't want Fast Travel, We don't want Auction Houses, We Don't want Dungeon Finders, We want Full Loot PVP, We Don't want Battlegrounds, We want the best stuff in the game to be barred from casuals, etc.
Do any of these people truly understand what it is they are asking for?
UO to EQ1
was the first major example of why Themepark MMO are and will always be more popular than Sandbox MMO.
First big Sandbox MMO (UO) lost subs to the first big Themepark MMO (EQ1)
kind of reminds me of the modern Sandbox vs Themepark aguments on this forum lately. people in those discussions overlook this historic event which is why Post EQ1, the genre took a more themepark model design.
AC --->AC2------>AC3
aka
Sandbox ---->Sandpark---->Themepark.
this is all pre WoW, so WoW wasnt the blame here like many on this forum tend to blame.
this change in design started with the jump from UO to EQ1
What is AC AC2 and AC3? If you are referring to Asherons call, There was never an AC3 so i am confused.
ppl don't knw what they want, free will is fine and awesome as long as the most technical and crucial decisions are dictated by a few well learned ppl, ppl who actually knw what they are doin; in this case the developers. i play wow and i hav seen harcore guilds taking advantage of LFD and now LFR in a way that sometimes we can call it exploit but as soon as they writing in forums they start bad mouthing LFD and LFR. humans are genuinely hypocrites, we talk abt fair chance but when it comes to practice we just shun those who cud benefit frm fair chance; in this case casual players. u ask why do we cling to outdated or bad game mechanincs, the answer is : becos we are humans.
Originally posted by Alders Originally posted by KyleranOriginally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by ReallyNow10
Well said. I weep for those who never knew DAOC or early EQ1; how they missed out.Nah .. i played EQ1 since beta. I missed nothing. Modern MMOs are much better games (for MY preference).Quick survey, how long did you play EQ 1 for vs how long have you played any single MMORPG since 2006?Just curious.
How long would we have played those MMO's prior to 2006 had we had more options?
Had i had more appealing options while i played FFXI, i certainly don't think i'd have spent 7 years in it. It's difficult to let go of your first love without something drawing you away.
While i do miss certain social aspects of older games, i don't miss any of the time commitment mechanics.
totally agree, no game these days will draw in a large community and keep them there for years without being far and away better than anything else out there.
back in the EQ and Daoc days (my first mmo's)there wasn't anything better and the communities were solid unlike the entire mmo community post wow, those days are long gone and never coming back.
"And it's not just the Pre-Tram crowd that irks me. Wanna know why there was no dungeon finder when SWTOR launched? Because the vocal minority asked for there not to be one. And then the non-vocal majority went "WTF?" when the game went public. And yet I still hear people complaining that "The Dungeon finder is what Ruined WoW and should never appear in another game again." Which is funny, because if the MASSIVE amout of complaining about it's absense in SWTOR (amougnst that game's many issues) is an indication, most people thought the Dungeon finder was a wonderful idea."
yeah,i laugh everytime i hear that the dungeon finder ruined wow
id say,the people who played wow are really the ones who ruined it.but hey,the funny part is.there the same ones who are ruining swtor also
but maybe guild wars 2 will get lucky and all the wow kids will be to busy playing pokemon in mist of pandaira to ruin another potentially good mmo
Its more the fact that mmo's in the past were very group oriented, not like the glorified irc chatroom mmo's we have today where they are pretty much a single player rpg till you hit max level.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
On my server, starting with a 'P', the Hibs were dominant. I played an Alb, in the early days, and did a lot of RvR. The Hibs dominated most of the time. The Mids were the underdogs, mostly, on my server.
The only way the Hibs could have been dominant on your server within the first 3ish years of release is if they had massive massive numbers advantage because all classes were underpowered compared to the other realms. In fact, the only single class that could stand a chance in RvR the first 4 months, the champion, received a MASSIVE nerf removing near 40% of its power at that time.
I remember, because I played one. it left one Hib class with any power, forgot the name of it but I remember they were one of the healing classes that also could melee with a mace. Hib was added late in beta, wasnt finished at released and it took them near 3 years to bring the realm up to par with the others and even then, there was massive population issues for them on most servers. They even held protests because of it near the 1 year mark.
That is not a great PvP game...great "idea" though...not in implimentation.
+1 DAOC, still the best designed PvP game out there
It is hard for me to understand why DAOC, designed long ago, is still the high water mark.
Because odds are you started out in Midgard...or Alibion after the first year of release...because if you played in that "other lolz" realm...you wouldnt think DAOC was the best designed PvP game after being spanked for so many YEARS for playing in the redheaded step child realm of DAOC.
You know what realm im talking about...
Sorry my friend, I started out as a Hibbie, and I agree with the +1 for DAOC. Every realm was overpowered at some point, and we Hibs got our fair share of nerfs. I played an Enchanter, so I know ;=)
+1 DAOC, still the best designed PvP game out there
It is hard for me to understand why DAOC, designed long ago, is still the high water mark.
Because odds are you started out in Midgard...or Alibion after the first year of release...because if you played in that "other lolz" realm...you wouldnt think DAOC was the best designed PvP game after being spanked for so many YEARS for playing in the redheaded step child realm of DAOC.
You know what realm im talking about...
On my server, starting with a 'P', the Hibs were dominant. I played an Alb, in the early days, and did a lot of RvR. The Hibs dominated most of the time. The Mids were the underdogs, mostly, on my server.
Pellinor? That was my server, where the Enchanter Zuhex got an entire class nerfed by killing 45 people in 15 seconds. We'd call each other IRL at 4am to take a bunch of keeps, since the Albs liked to sleep in .
was the first major example of why Themepark MMO are and will always be more popular than Sandbox MMO.
First big Sandbox MMO (UO) lost subs to the first big Themepark MMO (EQ1)
kind of reminds me of the modern Sandbox vs Themepark aguments on this forum lately. people in those discussions overlook this historic event which is why Post EQ1, the genre took a more themepark model design.
AC --->AC2------>AC3
aka
Sandbox ---->Sandpark---->Themepark.
this is all pre WoW, so WoW wasnt the blame here like many on this forum tend to blame.
this change in design started with the jump from UO to EQ1
A few things here:
First big Sandbox MMO (UO) lost subs to the first big Themepark MMO (EQ1)
Can you link to data showing UO lost subs to EQ1?
AC --->AC2------>AC3
aka
Sandbox ---->Sandpark---->Themepark.
You keep referencing AC3. There never was an AC3.
this change in design started with the jump from UO to EQ1
Actually, it did start with WOW. Prior to WOW there was much more diversity in the design and mechanics of MMOs, whereas after immediately WOW a monoculture of MMOs formed.
UO, AC, SWG, EQ, EVE, NeoCron, Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, DAoC... pretty much all the MMOs prior to WOW were distinctly different. You're making the odd leap that just because EQ came after UO that a) people left UO for EQ and b) that was in any way a shift in player interest.
Actually the first big themepark MMO was NWNO back in 1991....jesus people. It was also the first MMO to top 500,000 players, long before EQ1 was a glint the sack of its creators.
This is the reason why both terms were around before EQ1 and AC1...because both types were popular in the early mid 90s. Yes...MMO RPGs were popular before EQ and AC1. Meridian 59 and the Realm all topped several 100k players.
I doubt most of you even know what the first MMO was to top 1 million players...NEXUS back in 1996. It was also the first F2P game, free until level 49, then you had to register an account and pay to keep playing and the man that made it used the money from it to create...Lineage and formed NCSoft.
All long before your claims of UO and EQ1 combating for Sandbox V Themepark. Fact is, there are not very many sandbox fans out there...just DEAL WITH IT. Sandbox does not sell well, never has...and nothing points to them EVER being near as popular as themepark.
Little Drakken is going to catch a cold if you keep waving him around in the open air like that. Glad you're familiar with those ttiles and all, but they have little bearing on mainstream popularity or commercial viability of MMORPGs. UO/EQ brought MMOs into the public eye and WOW pretty much single handedly made the platform mainstream acceptable.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
They all get away with this for one simple reason, they are very vocal. The only way to stop it, is to be equally vocal.
Do you feel the requestsof the vocal players are given greater or lesser weight than the actual data that devs have on how people are playing the game?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
was the first major example of why Themepark MMO are and will always be more popular than Sandbox MMO.
First big Sandbox MMO (UO) lost subs to the first big Themepark MMO (EQ1)
kind of reminds me of the modern Sandbox vs Themepark aguments on this forum lately. people in those discussions overlook this historic event which is why Post EQ1, the genre took a more themepark model design.
AC --->AC2------>AC3
aka
Sandbox ---->Sandpark---->Themepark.
this is all pre WoW, so WoW wasnt the blame here like many on this forum tend to blame.
this change in design started with the jump from UO to EQ1
A few things here:
First big Sandbox MMO (UO) lost subs to the first big Themepark MMO (EQ1)
Can you link to data showing UO lost subs to EQ1?
AC --->AC2------>AC3
aka
Sandbox ---->Sandpark---->Themepark.
You keep referencing AC3. There never was an AC3.
this change in design started with the jump from UO to EQ1
Actually, it did start with WOW. Prior to WOW there was much more diversity in the design and mechanics of MMOs, whereas after immediately WOW a monoculture of MMOs formed.
UO, AC, SWG, EQ, EVE, NeoCron, Anarchy Online, Shadowbane, DAoC... pretty much all the MMOs prior to WOW were distinctly different. You're making the odd leap that just because EQ came after UO that a) people left UO for EQ and b) that was in any way a shift in player interest.
Actually the first big themepark MMO was NWNO back in 1991....jesus people. It was also the first MMO to top 500,000 players, long before EQ1 was a glint the sack of its creators.
This is the reason why both terms were around before EQ1 and AC1...because both types were popular in the early mid 90s. Yes...MMO RPGs were popular before EQ and AC1. Meridian 59 and the Realm all topped several 100k players.
I doubt most of you even know what the first MMO was to top 1 million players...NEXUS back in 1996. It was also the first F2P game, free until level 49, then you had to register an account and pay to keep playing and the man that made it used the money from it to create...Lineage and formed NCSoft.
All long before your claims of UO and EQ1 combating for Sandbox V Themepark. Fact is, there are not very many sandbox fans out there...just DEAL WITH IT. Sandbox does not sell well, never has...and nothing points to them EVER being near as popular as themepark.
Little Drakken is going to catch a cold if you keep waving him around in the open air like that. Glad you're familiar with those ttiles and all, but they have little bearing on mainstream popularity or commercial viability of MMORPGs. UO/EQ brought MMOs into the public eye and WOW pretty much single handedly made the platform mainstream acceptable.
Because UO losing subs to EQ had nothing to do with the fact EQ was the first 3d MMO...right? Your sandbox/themepark arguement kinda sucks. Hard to tell if you have any sandbox fans when PEOPLE DONT MAKE SANDBOX GAMES. It's not because there isn'y players, it's more so lack of imagination, skill, motiviation, actually wanting to make a legit good game.
It's like not having a Football team and saying "Well, guess people don't like Football here" meanwhile you hear tons of people wanting it.
The better question would be "Why don't the new wave of MMO players don't want to have freedom and a breathing world?". I guess you all would rather wait in a queue, LFG line or something. I can't wrap my head around it. It also seems to be the trend that if a game is sandbox you just commit 10 hours a day to it for some reason...
Thank you for brining your crap solo RPG mindset to our genre.
Because UO losing subs to EQ had nothing to do with the fact EQ was the first 3d MMO...right? Your sandbox/themepark arguement kinda sucks. Hard to tell if you have any sandbox fans when PEOPLE DONT MAKE SANDBOX GAMES. It's not because there isn'y players, it's more so lack of imagination, skill, motiviation, actually wanting to make a legit good game.
It's like not having a Football team and saying "Well, guess people don't like Football here" meanwhile you hear tons of people wanting it.
The better question would be "Why don't the new wave of MMO players don't want to have freedom and a breathing world?". I guess you all would rather wait in a queue, LFG line or something. I can't wrap my head around it. It also seems to be the trend that if a game is sandbox you just commit 10 hours a day to it for some reason...
Thank you for brining your crap solo RPG mindset to our genre.
I'm quite sure you weren't addressing me with that, but I'm not sure who in that thread you were addressing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because UO losing subs to EQ had nothing to do with the fact EQ was the first 3d MMO...right? Your sandbox/themepark arguement kinda sucks. Hard to tell if you have any sandbox fans when PEOPLE DONT MAKE SANDBOX GAMES. It's not because there isn'y players, it's more so lack of imagination, skill, motiviation, actually wanting to make a legit good game.
It's like not having a Football team and saying "Well, guess people don't like Football here" meanwhile you hear tons of people wanting it.
The better question would be "Why don't the new wave of MMO players don't want to have freedom and a breathing world?". I guess you all would rather wait in a queue, LFG line or something. I can't wrap my head around it. It also seems to be the trend that if a game is sandbox you just commit 10 hours a day to it for some reason...
Thank you for brining your crap solo RPG mindset to our genre.
I'm quite sure you weren't addressing me with that, but I'm not sure who in that thread you were addressing.
I just hit quote, believe I was replying to MMOExposed regarding the EQ/UO comparison regarding sub lose, etc.
Because UO losing subs to EQ had nothing to do with the fact EQ was the first 3d MMO...right? Your sandbox/themepark arguement kinda sucks. Hard to tell if you have any sandbox fans when PEOPLE DONT MAKE SANDBOX GAMES. It's not because there isn'y players, it's more so lack of imagination, skill, motiviation, actually wanting to make a legit good game.
It's like not having a Football team and saying "Well, guess people don't like Football here" meanwhile you hear tons of people wanting it.
The better question would be "Why don't the new wave of MMO players don't want to have freedom and a breathing world?". I guess you all would rather wait in a queue, LFG line or something. I can't wrap my head around it. It also seems to be the trend that if a game is sandbox you just commit 10 hours a day to it for some reason...
Thank you for brining your crap solo RPG mindset to our genre.
I'm quite sure you weren't addressing me with that, but I'm not sure who in that thread you were addressing.
I just hit quote, believe I was replying to MMOExposed regarding the EQ/UO comparison regarding sub lose, etc.
Ok, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for clarifying that. I'm slow sometimes.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because UO losing subs to EQ had nothing to do with the fact EQ was the first 3d MMO...right? Your sandbox/themepark arguement kinda sucks. Hard to tell if you have any sandbox fans when PEOPLE DONT MAKE SANDBOX GAMES. It's not because there isn'y players, it's more so lack of imagination, skill, motiviation, actually wanting to make a legit good game.
Probably not.
Diablo 2 .. no 3D .. very popular.
Diablo 3 ...isometric view, not 1st or 3rd person .. very popular, even in this day and age of third person view games.
I bet if EQ done in Diablo 2 graphics, it will beat UO by a mile.
Because UO losing subs to EQ had nothing to do with the fact EQ was the first 3d MMO...right? Your sandbox/themepark arguement kinda sucks. Hard to tell if you have any sandbox fans when PEOPLE DONT MAKE SANDBOX GAMES. It's not because there isn'y players, it's more so lack of imagination, skill, motiviation, actually wanting to make a legit good game.
Probably not.
Diablo 2 .. no 3D .. very popular.
Diablo 3 ...isometric view, not 1st or 3rd person .. very popular, even in this day and age of third person view games.
I bet if EQ done in Diablo 2 graphics, it will beat UO by a mile.
3D was all the rage at that time. CD and sound card were finally standard components, and 3D accelerated video cards were far more common. I agree that peopel playing 2D games weren't going to just jump ship because a remotely similar game came out in 3D, however it's undeniable that 3D was a huge selling point for any type of game back then.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
+1 DAOC, still the best designed PvP game out there
Controls and actions for RPG's were well established, before MMO's. Morrowind comes to mind. Many of the basic mechanics were settled long ago, and MMO's had to conform to that.
DAOC was an early design, and was brilliant. EQ was also. These games set the course for the next generation, based on the past. of RPG's. WoW was the ultimate result of that.
This probably represents 15 years of development by now, and it is hard to break out of 15 years of optimization.
It is hard for me to understand why DAOC, designed long ago, is still the high water mark.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
How long would we have played those MMO's prior to 2006 had we had more options?
Had i had more appealing options while i played FFXI, i certainly don't think i'd have spent 7 years in it. It's difficult to let go of your first love without something drawing you away.
While i do miss certain social aspects of older games, i don't miss any of the time commitment mechanics.
It's actually not "a few people", on neither end, game designer or player.
FPS are quick junk/fast food-like: you log in, you play for a map or 3, you log out again and have your fix.
If you as a player get an extra reward for your character i.e. new gear, new level, etc., cool, even better.
For the game designer it's really just designing a small map with very limited options, something that you see even the least professional people turn out en mass in FPS.
So, why try to open up a first class restaurant and get people into it in the early evening hours when you know perfectly well that having a chippie next to a nightclub is guaranteed to bring in a strong crowd all starved and not really caring if those potatoes are fresh or a week old ;-)
Because odds are you started out in Midgard...or Alibion after the first year of release...because if you played in that "other lolz" realm...you wouldnt think DAOC was the best designed PvP game after being spanked for so many YEARS for playing in the redheaded step child realm of DAOC.
You know what realm im talking about...
Here's my answer:
2-3 years DAOC in 2001
2-3 years CoH
2 years Ryzom
2 years Pirates of the Burning Sea - playing some
2 years Vanguard - still playing
Kyleran: you are always worth reading.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.
On my server, starting with a 'P', the Hibs were dominant. I played an Alb, in the early days, and did a lot of RvR. The Hibs dominated most of the time. The Mids were the underdogs, mostly, on my server.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
What is AC AC2 and AC3? If you are referring to Asherons call, There was never an AC3 so i am confused.
EQ1: 1999-2004 Solid, 2004 - 2006 on and off
EQ2: 2004-2012 on and off
WoW: 2004-2009 on and off
Age of Conan 2007-2007
Aion 2009-2009
Swtor Dec2011-Feb2012
many others but you get the drift.
ppl don't knw what they want, free will is fine and awesome as long as the most technical and crucial decisions are dictated by a few well learned ppl, ppl who actually knw what they are doin; in this case the developers. i play wow and i hav seen harcore guilds taking advantage of LFD and now LFR in a way that sometimes we can call it exploit but as soon as they writing in forums they start bad mouthing LFD and LFR. humans are genuinely hypocrites, we talk abt fair chance but when it comes to practice we just shun those who cud benefit frm fair chance; in this case casual players. u ask why do we cling to outdated or bad game mechanincs, the answer is : becos we are humans.
Nah .. i played EQ1 since beta. I missed nothing. Modern MMOs are much better games (for MY preference).
Quick survey, how long did you play EQ 1 for vs how long have you played any single MMORPG since 2006? Just curious.
How long would we have played those MMO's prior to 2006 had we had more options?
Had i had more appealing options while i played FFXI, i certainly don't think i'd have spent 7 years in it. It's difficult to let go of your first love without something drawing you away.
While i do miss certain social aspects of older games, i don't miss any of the time commitment mechanics.
totally agree, no game these days will draw in a large community and keep them there for years without being far and away better than anything else out there.
back in the EQ and Daoc days (my first mmo's)there wasn't anything better and the communities were solid unlike the entire mmo community post wow, those days are long gone and never coming back.
Because our brains have the best anti aliasing...
"And it's not just the Pre-Tram crowd that irks me. Wanna know why there was no dungeon finder when SWTOR launched? Because the vocal minority asked for there not to be one. And then the non-vocal majority went "WTF?" when the game went public. And yet I still hear people complaining that "The Dungeon finder is what Ruined WoW and should never appear in another game again." Which is funny, because if the MASSIVE amout of complaining about it's absense in SWTOR (amougnst that game's many issues) is an indication, most people thought the Dungeon finder was a wonderful idea."
yeah,i laugh everytime i hear that the dungeon finder ruined wow
id say,the people who played wow are really the ones who ruined it.but hey,the funny part is.there the same ones who are ruining swtor also
but maybe guild wars 2 will get lucky and all the wow kids will be to busy playing pokemon in mist of pandaira to ruin another potentially good mmo
Its more the fact that mmo's in the past were very group oriented, not like the glorified irc chatroom mmo's we have today where they are pretty much a single player rpg till you hit max level.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
The only way the Hibs could have been dominant on your server within the first 3ish years of release is if they had massive massive numbers advantage because all classes were underpowered compared to the other realms. In fact, the only single class that could stand a chance in RvR the first 4 months, the champion, received a MASSIVE nerf removing near 40% of its power at that time.
I remember, because I played one. it left one Hib class with any power, forgot the name of it but I remember they were one of the healing classes that also could melee with a mace. Hib was added late in beta, wasnt finished at released and it took them near 3 years to bring the realm up to par with the others and even then, there was massive population issues for them on most servers. They even held protests because of it near the 1 year mark.
That is not a great PvP game...great "idea" though...not in implimentation.
Sorry my friend, I started out as a Hibbie, and I agree with the +1 for DAOC. Every realm was overpowered at some point, and we Hibs got our fair share of nerfs. I played an Enchanter, so I know ;=)
P.S. stun nuke nuke nuke nuke
Pellinor? That was my server, where the Enchanter Zuhex got an entire class nerfed by killing 45 people in 15 seconds. We'd call each other IRL at 4am to take a bunch of keeps, since the Albs liked to sleep in
.
Good damn times. Man, I miss that game.
Little Drakken is going to catch a cold if you keep waving him around in the open air like that. Glad you're familiar with those ttiles and all, but they have little bearing on mainstream popularity or commercial viability of MMORPGs. UO/EQ brought MMOs into the public eye and WOW pretty much single handedly made the platform mainstream acceptable.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The vocal minority are made up of players like goonswarm, they live to ruin your day, its pathetic for sure.
I get the same arguements from soloers, they care only about thier playstyle, at the expense of anybody and everybody who disagrees.
They all get away with this for one simple reason, they are very vocal. The only way to stop it, is to be equally vocal.
Do you feel the requestsof the vocal players are given greater or lesser weight than the actual data that devs have on how people are playing the game?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because UO losing subs to EQ had nothing to do with the fact EQ was the first 3d MMO...right? Your sandbox/themepark arguement kinda sucks. Hard to tell if you have any sandbox fans when PEOPLE DONT MAKE SANDBOX GAMES. It's not because there isn'y players, it's more so lack of imagination, skill, motiviation, actually wanting to make a legit good game.
It's like not having a Football team and saying "Well, guess people don't like Football here" meanwhile you hear tons of people wanting it.
The better question would be "Why don't the new wave of MMO players don't want to have freedom and a breathing world?". I guess you all would rather wait in a queue, LFG line or something. I can't wrap my head around it. It also seems to be the trend that if a game is sandbox you just commit 10 hours a day to it for some reason...
Thank you for brining your crap solo RPG mindset to our genre.
I'm quite sure you weren't addressing me with that, but I'm not sure who in that thread you were addressing.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I just hit quote, believe I was replying to MMOExposed regarding the EQ/UO comparison regarding sub lose, etc.
Ok, that makes more sense to me now. Thanks for clarifying that. I'm slow sometimes.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Probably not.
Diablo 2 .. no 3D .. very popular.
Diablo 3 ...isometric view, not 1st or 3rd person .. very popular, even in this day and age of third person view games.
I bet if EQ done in Diablo 2 graphics, it will beat UO by a mile.
3D was all the rage at that time. CD and sound card were finally standard components, and 3D accelerated video cards were far more common. I agree that peopel playing 2D games weren't going to just jump ship because a remotely similar game came out in 3D, however it's undeniable that 3D was a huge selling point for any type of game back then.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre