7 active abilities are too few IMO. I've played games where I've used upwards to 20 abilities regularly and others were I'm only restricted to a fraction of that (i.e. DCUO). The happy medium is 10, 7 feels to restrictive. GW2 has only a few extra abilities compared too TSW and it makes a world of difference.
4. It feels like a single player experience for the most part
So what happens when someone starts a thread that says the combat is awesome and amazing? I think back to my experience playing the game and wonder how someone with a rational mind could believe that the combat was awesome and amazing. When someone calls GW2 combat a dumbed down version of TSW combat I just scratch my head and toss it aside. It's just a silly claim and everyone that has played both games knows this.
People have come forward (very intense fans of TSW) and attempted to spin combat to a place where it owns all other MMORPGs in the combat department. I would just recommend that you guys start concentrating on the real positives of this game.
1. Great Atmosphere
2. Modern Setting
3. Interesting Questing
4. Less linear than other story driven MMORPGs
5. Puzzles
I mean hell, it was better when you guys were claiming people didn't like it because they were too stupid to understand it. At least then you are focusing on one of the game's strengths - puzzles.
So what exactly are your gripes with the 4 you've listed? Your gripes can also be positives. Have you played the most recent beta weekend?
Everyone complaining about combat animations... I haven't noticed 1 combat animation bug of the 30+ hours I played this last weekend. I've made 3 diff characters, all playing different roles, tried out over 100 skills and haven't noticed 1 bug/glitch in any of the animations. Not saying that maybe there is out there a few higher level skills that could be not worked out yet, but I haven't noticed anything to make animations such a huge deal that I've been seeing everyone critiquing lately.
Secondly, what exactly do you have wrong with the overall combat as your #1 negative? If it's a reflection of the animations, then it shouldn't be #1 nor even on the list if you've participated last weekend. Like I've said, I could be wrong, but with everything I've tried, no animation bugs here.
Thirdly, I don't see how the payment model is a problem nor should it be for anyone. Over 10 million people play World of Warcraft still today, and they have a very similar shop style just without clothing items which are a bigger part of TSW than WoW. WoW has 10 dollar non-combat pets, 25 dollar mounts and then there's the card game which people have to pay for the random chance of cards for in-game items, or buying them direct from other people. If that's not something to rag on about, then neither should TSW be hated for their cash shop style. It isn't pay to win, it's pay to look different than other people if you so wish to spend a bit extra money. Last time I checked, video game companies need to make money too so they can stay in business and bring us better patches and upgrades to the games we play.
Lastly, saying the game feels like a single-player game isn't even a detriment to the game. Let me ask you this, while you were leveling in World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 1, Age of Conan etc. were you always 100% of the time playing with other people besides your friends perhaps? I've leveled over 8 characters to 85 by myself in WoW, thankfully no longer playing, but besides the point, I don't claim it to be a single player game just because I chose to level faster and quicker by myself to just rush to end game. In TSW, It's not like that. You have nothing to rush to, take your time, explore everything and figure out the missions on your own without googling everything, unless you want that same boring quest grind and sad single player experience like other traditional MMO's provide.
Anyways, to the rest of you, if you are going to state negative things towards the game, please state why. As you can see, I've counter produces information for someone's negatives, although both of our statements are purely opinionated, but it still shows that the game is really worth checking out and deserves a 2nd chance for those that have previously been wronged by it in earlier stages of beta.
I think the combat is amazing. I pvp and do it a lot. All my attacks have different animations, I see blood, I see on my enemy where I stike and shoot, plus I have 525 different abilities to build with.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
This and animimation are the ONLY critiques of TSW, and neither can be proved or disproved. What a crock of crap.
aah got that off my chest. Have a wonderful evening
pvp?
hope you mean those friendly matches in the hubs, or did i miss sth in the last beta?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I think the combat is amazing. I pvp and do it a lot. All my attacks have different animations, I see blood, I see on my enemy where I stike and shoot, plus I have 525 different abilities to build with.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
This and animimation are the ONLY critiques of TSW, and neither can be proved or disproved. What a crock of crap.
aah got that off my chest. Have a wonderful evening
pvp?
hope you mean those friendly matches in the hubs, or did i miss sth in the last beta?
I think the combat is amazing. I pvp and do it a lot. All my attacks have different animations, I see blood, I see on my enemy where I stike and shoot, plus I have 525 different abilities to build with.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
This and animimation are the ONLY critiques of TSW, and neither can be proved or disproved. What a crock of crap.
aah got that off my chest. Have a wonderful evening
pvp?
hope you mean those friendly matches in the hubs, or did i miss sth in the last beta?
Oh ffs head start is like a week away. Somethings need to be said! oh and yes that's what I'm talking about
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
they did fix a lot of them but overall if you hated the system anytime testing it in the last month or so you wont like it at launch.. overall I find it acceptable but could have a better feel and I wish they went more survival horror esque instead but oh well.
I can agree with that. The style has not changed, but a lot has been added.
Interesting, what do you mean about "more survival horror esque."
survival horror esque look at games like Alan Wake or the early silent hills where it's more gritty combat all the enemies are pretty strong and even one zombie type could take you out if not careful. Right now its basic AOE mow down the easy guys and concentrate on the hard one type for solo play. Also the weight of weapons still doesn't translate well for instance carrying a sword and swinging it doesn't feel any differn't than carry around a giant lead pipe and swinging it around.
Having it more survival type would add more to the feel of the zones and add greatly to the immersion of the game like it does in those survival horror type games... that's not the direction they went and what is there I'm ok with but t still could be better.
I wonder if having a significantly higher number of people in a zone will help with this. There is something about the density of mobs, many/most of which are just standing there or moving in a limited-range pat, that really detracts from the experience from my perspective. One zombie should be a threat, but you regularly have mobs of 4 chewing on you at the start. And it remains that way in other zones.
I realize that the game does not use dynamic scaling but I think this would help. In my current build I use 5 abilities for aoe (shotgun, turret, teargas, whiteout and inferno) because I am regularly fighting multiple mobs and it works just as well on single-targets. Mob design is interesting, but not after you've killed 25 of them to carve your way to your destination. Again, this may change with more players in a zone.
Still, slower, less frequent and more "dangerous" combat would fit better into the world setting, at least from my perspective.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I think the combat is amazing. I pvp and do it a lot. All my attacks have different animations, I see blood, I see on my enemy where I stike and shoot, plus I have 525 different abilities to build with.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
This and animimation are the ONLY critiques of TSW, and neither can be proved or disproved. What a crock of crap.
aah got that off my chest. Have a wonderful evening
Its only bad to those who want a more actiony combat but the thing is as much as I like that style myself, I still love the tab targetting style of combat just as much. With the latest BWE for TSW I could tell a noticable improvement in player animations and combat fluidity so let the haters hate and enjoy what you will.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Oh ffs head start is like a week away. Somethings need to be said! oh and yes that's what I'm talking about
I do not...
...understand...
...why the fuck...
...the NDA is still in effect. Makes no sense and simply leads to speculation and assumptions.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Oh ffs head start is like a week away. Somethings need to be said! oh and yes that's what I'm talking about
I do not...
...understand...
...why the fuck...
...the NDA is still in effect. Makes no sense and simply leads to speculation and assumptions.
That actually bugs me a lot also. I have now clue why the NDA is still up and this game has always been very closed. Still less than a month away from release they are not dropping it.
Oh ffs head start is like a week away. Somethings need to be said! oh and yes that's what I'm talking about
I do not...
...understand...
...why the fuck...
...the NDA is still in effect. Makes no sense and simply leads to speculation and assumptions.
That actually bugs me a lot also. I have now clue why the NDA is still up and this game has always been very closed. Still less than a month away from release they are not dropping it.
We're on the two week countdown and I don't know why the NDA is still in effect with no indication of when it will be dropped.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
AoC had the same NDA timetable, it is just how Funcom rolls.
Anyway, I've tried two of the beta weekends (and I'll play this one as well, I'm still on the fence of the game) and yes the combat and animation are my biggest complaint about the game. Not a fan of the character models either but I think I read that they will have more customizeable options at launch.
I just find it odd that AoC had fantastic combat and animations but this game is the opposite for me. Anyway, other than that it looks to be a great game.
AoC had the same NDA timetable, it is just how Funcom rolls.
Lols^2
Well...sure that will put people at ease.
On a good note though the game seems a lot more fleshed out than AOC and not near as buggy. Then again I could end up eating these words and simply be getting Tortaged again.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
4. It feels like a single player experience for the most part
So what happens when someone starts a thread that says the combat is awesome and amazing? I think back to my experience playing the game and wonder how someone with a rational mind could believe that the combat was awesome and amazing. When someone calls GW2 combat a dumbed down version of TSW combat I just scratch my head and toss it aside. It's just a silly claim and everyone that has played both games knows this.
People have come forward (very intense fans of TSW) and attempted to spin combat to a place where it owns all other MMORPGs in the combat department. I would just recommend that you guys start concentrating on the real positives of this game.
1. Great Atmosphere
2. Modern Setting
3. Interesting Questing
4. Less linear than other story driven MMORPGs
5. Puzzles
I mean hell, it was better when you guys were claiming people didn't like it because they were too stupid to understand it. At least then you are focusing on one of the game's strengths - puzzles.
So what exactly are your gripes with the 4 you've listed? Your gripes can also be positives. Have you played the most recent beta weekend?
Everyone complaining about combat animations... I haven't noticed 1 combat animation bug of the 30+ hours I played this last weekend. I've made 3 diff characters, all playing different roles, tried out over 100 skills and haven't noticed 1 bug/glitch in any of the animations. Not saying that maybe there is out there a few higher level skills that could be not worked out yet, but I haven't noticed anything to make animations such a huge deal that I've been seeing everyone critiquing lately.
Secondly, what exactly do you have wrong with the overall combat as your #1 negative? If it's a reflection of the animations, then it shouldn't be #1 nor even on the list if you've participated last weekend. Like I've said, I could be wrong, but with everything I've tried, no animation bugs here.
Thirdly, I don't see how the payment model is a problem nor should it be for anyone. Over 10 million people play World of Warcraft still today, and they have a very similar shop style just without clothing items which are a bigger part of TSW than WoW. WoW has 10 dollar non-combat pets, 25 dollar mounts and then there's the card game which people have to pay for the random chance of cards for in-game items, or buying them direct from other people. If that's not something to rag on about, then neither should TSW be hated for their cash shop style. It isn't pay to win, it's pay to look different than other people if you so wish to spend a bit extra money. Last time I checked, video game companies need to make money too so they can stay in business and bring us better patches and upgrades to the games we play.
Lastly, saying the game feels like a single-player game isn't even a detriment to the game. Let me ask you this, while you were leveling in World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 1, Age of Conan etc. were you always 100% of the time playing with other people besides your friends perhaps? I've leveled over 8 characters to 85 by myself in WoW, thankfully no longer playing, but besides the point, I don't claim it to be a single player game just because I chose to level faster and quicker by myself to just rush to end game. In TSW, It's not like that. You have nothing to rush to, take your time, explore everything and figure out the missions on your own without googling everything, unless you want that same boring quest grind and sad single player experience like other traditional MMO's provide.
Anyways, to the rest of you, if you are going to state negative things towards the game, please state why. As you can see, I've counter produces information for someone's negatives, although both of our statements are purely opinionated, but it still shows that the game is really worth checking out and deserves a 2nd chance for those that have previously been wronged by it in earlier stages of beta.
A few things first.
I didn't get detailed about the positives either.
Yes, I played in the last BWE.
I've gone into more detail in other threads about my opinions about combat.
The gripes and positives were not meant to be in order from worst to best or best to worst.
I'll let you know my opinions in more detail if you want.
Animations
You are using a straw man when you discuss animations. You say that you did not encounter any bugs. It's not really bugs that I think is the problem with them. I don't like that they aren't very well done. It feels somewhat like a throwback to EQ2 animations. The animations are poorly executed in my opinion.
Some people have said it's because it's much harder to get the animations right in a more realistic setting. I personally feel like they got the animations right in AoC, so why not here? I have a feeling this is going to be something they work on not only right as we speak, but also post launch since there are so many complaints about it.
Combat
I don't think it's horrible. I think it's below averge for today's standards. There are a few reasons for this.
1. I feel like they set up a situation where there is an overabundance of customization. If they were to make any of the skills too good, peope would gravitate heavily towards it. Especially in PvP and dungeon PvE. This leads to a homogenization of skills. I'll talk about this later.
2. I like the idea of a deck system, but literally only giving 7 active skills across 2 weapon types feels painfully limited. It feels like they are severly restricting creativity in a game that has so many options to have fun with.
3. Every weapon or magic type uses the combo builder system. To me, this makes going into other weapon types less interesting than it could be. For instance, I picked fists. I then later picked rifle. I felt the only real difference between the two was that one was ranged and one was melee. They both worked pretty much exactly the same. Fists tended to do more damage from melee range and the rifle tended to do less damage from range. But I was still doing pretty much the same thing.
4. Homogenization of skills. I think you could pretty much put all the "non-elite offensive" skills into these categories:
Direct Damage Builder
AOE Builder
DOT Builder
Direct Damage Finisher
AOE Finisher
DOT Finisher
So while yes, they have 9 million skills to choose from, they often feel similar to each other with a little twist. Elites are different and usually involve some form of CC, but you are only allowed 1 elite on your bars at a time. Probably exactly because they were having difficulty with extreme builds.
5. It feels like a circle strafe spam fest while soloing. Once you get a solid amount of skills, you start to develop optimal rotations for your build. Once you get these optimal rotations down, it feels like the outcome of a standard fight is predetermined. There isn't enough variety within 7 skills to keep it interesting.
Single Player Game
To me, it felt very much like SWTOR in that you are watching a story unfold as you progress through the world. There is nothing inherently wrong with this (or likely anything that I've mentioned), but I personlly prefer a more group oriented experience. It felt like people not only didn't care about grouping up, but they actively avoided it.
To be fair though, it feels a lot less linear than SWTOR and I personally feel like the quests are more interesting. (These are listed in the positives as I see them).
I have heard good things about their instances and we are going to get to try their PvP in 2 days, but the experience where you earn skill points/ability points through the world feels more single player than what I prefer in games.
Payment Model
Box + Sub + Shop
I think that it is unprecedented for a game to release with that payment model. (If you can think of one, let me know). It is the most expensive payment model on the market. I see no reason why cosmetic cash shop items should not be included in the game for your subscription fee alone. Here is how I framed it in another thread:
Box + Sub = OK
Box + Shop = OK
Sub + Shop = Better be an amazing game and everything in the shop must be attainable in game at a fairly easy pace.
Box + Sub + Shop = WTF man...
These ARE only opinions. But I see a lot of others that feel the same way. I doubt that if someone that is interested in the game would read this and run away. I think the people that are interested in this game tend to be interested in different things. Combat is not necessarily the most important aspect to them. Wonky animations doesn't ruin the interesting stories and puzzles and environment. The payment model is ok with some people because the game justifies it to them. In my post, I was just saying that maybe it was time to stop claiming that the combat is amazing and focus on the amazing parts of the game.
AoC had the same NDA timetable, it is just how Funcom rolls.
Lols^2
Well...sure that will people at ease.
On a good note though the game seems a lot more fleshed out than AOC and not near as buggy. Then again I could end up eating these words and simply be getting Tortaged again.
Heh, yeah it won't put people at ease but I'm just saying that is how they operate.
Here is hoping that they have learned their lesson in bad launches.
4. It feels like a single player experience for the most part
So what happens when someone starts a thread that says the combat is awesome and amazing? I think back to my experience playing the game and wonder how someone with a rational mind could believe that the combat was awesome and amazing. When someone calls GW2 combat a dumbed down version of TSW combat I just scratch my head and toss it aside. It's just a silly claim and everyone that has played both games knows this.
People have come forward (very intense fans of TSW) and attempted to spin combat to a place where it owns all other MMORPGs in the combat department. I would just recommend that you guys start concentrating on the real positives of this game.
1. Great Atmosphere
2. Modern Setting
3. Interesting Questing
4. Less linear than other story driven MMORPGs
5. Puzzles
I mean hell, it was better when you guys were claiming people didn't like it because they were too stupid to understand it. At least then you are focusing on one of the game's strengths - puzzles.
So what exactly are your gripes with the 4 you've listed? Your gripes can also be positives. Have you played the most recent beta weekend?
Everyone complaining about combat animations... I haven't noticed 1 combat animation bug of the 30+ hours I played this last weekend. I've made 3 diff characters, all playing different roles, tried out over 100 skills and haven't noticed 1 bug/glitch in any of the animations. Not saying that maybe there is out there a few higher level skills that could be not worked out yet, but I haven't noticed anything to make animations such a huge deal that I've been seeing everyone critiquing lately.
Secondly, what exactly do you have wrong with the overall combat as your #1 negative? If it's a reflection of the animations, then it shouldn't be #1 nor even on the list if you've participated last weekend. Like I've said, I could be wrong, but with everything I've tried, no animation bugs here.
Thirdly, I don't see how the payment model is a problem nor should it be for anyone. Over 10 million people play World of Warcraft still today, and they have a very similar shop style just without clothing items which are a bigger part of TSW than WoW. WoW has 10 dollar non-combat pets, 25 dollar mounts and then there's the card game which people have to pay for the random chance of cards for in-game items, or buying them direct from other people. If that's not something to rag on about, then neither should TSW be hated for their cash shop style. It isn't pay to win, it's pay to look different than other people if you so wish to spend a bit extra money. Last time I checked, video game companies need to make money too so they can stay in business and bring us better patches and upgrades to the games we play.
Lastly, saying the game feels like a single-player game isn't even a detriment to the game. Let me ask you this, while you were leveling in World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 1, Age of Conan etc. were you always 100% of the time playing with other people besides your friends perhaps? I've leveled over 8 characters to 85 by myself in WoW, thankfully no longer playing, but besides the point, I don't claim it to be a single player game just because I chose to level faster and quicker by myself to just rush to end game. In TSW, It's not like that. You have nothing to rush to, take your time, explore everything and figure out the missions on your own without googling everything, unless you want that same boring quest grind and sad single player experience like other traditional MMO's provide.
Anyways, to the rest of you, if you are going to state negative things towards the game, please state why. As you can see, I've counter produces information for someone's negatives, although both of our statements are purely opinionated, but it still shows that the game is really worth checking out and deserves a 2nd chance for those that have previously been wronged by it in earlier stages of beta.
A few things first.
I didn't get detailed about the positives either.
Yes, I played in the last BWE.
I've gone into more detail in other threads about my opinions about combat.
The gripes and positives were not meant to be in order from worst to best or best to worst.
I'll let you know my opinions in more detail if you want.
Animations
You are using a straw man when you discuss animations. You say that you did not encounter any bugs. It's not really bugs that I think is the problem with them. I don't like that they aren't very well done. It feels somewhat like a throwback to EQ2 animations. The animations are poorly executed in my opinion.
Some people have said it's because it's much harder to get the animations right in a more realistic setting. I personally feel like they got the animations right in AoC, so why not here? I have a feeling this is going to be something they work on not only right as we speak, but also post launch since there are so many complaints about it.
Combat
I don't think it's horrible. I think it's below averge for today's standards. There are a few reasons for this.
1. I feel like they set up a situation where there is an overabundance of customization. If they were to make any of the skills too good, peope would gravitate heavily towards it. Especially in PvP and dungeon PvE. This leads to a homogenization of skills. I'll talk about this later.
2. I like the idea of a deck system, but literally only giving 7 active skills across 2 weapon types feels painfully limited. It feels like they are severly restricting creativity in a game that has so many options to have fun with.
3. Every weapon or magic type uses the combo builder system. To me, this makes going into other weapon types less interesting than it could be. For instance, I picked fists. I then later picked rifle. I felt the only real difference between the two was that one was ranged and one was melee. They both worked pretty much exactly the same. Fists tended to do more damage from melee range and the rifle tended to do less damage from range. But I was still doing pretty much the same thing.
4. Homogenization of skills. I think you could pretty much put all the "non-elite offensive" skills into these categories:
Direct Damage Builder
AOE Builder
DOT Builder
Direct Damage Finisher
AOE Finisher
DOT Finisher
So while yes, they have 9 million skills to choose from, they often feel similar to each other with a little twist. Elites are different and usually involve some form of CC, but you are only allowed 1 elite on your bars at a time. Probably exactly because they were having difficulty with extreme builds.
5. It feels like a circle strafe spam fest while soloing. Once you get a solid amount of skills, you start to develop optimal rotations for your build. Once you get these optimal rotations down, it feels like the outcome of a standard fight is predetermined. There isn't enough variety within 7 skills to keep it interesting.
Single Player Game
To me, it felt very much like SWTOR in that you are watching a story unfold as you progress through the world. There is nothing inherently wrong with this (or likely anything that I've mentioned), but I personlly prefer a more group oriented experience. It felt like people not only didn't care about grouping up, but they actively avoided it.
To be fair though, it feels a lot less linear than SWTOR and I personally feel like the quests are more interesting. (These are listed in the positives as I see them).
I have heard good things about their instances and we are going to get to try their PvP in 2 days, but the experience where you earn skill points/ability points through the world feels more single player than what I prefer in games.
Payment Model
Box + Sub + Shop
I think that it is unprecedented for a game to release with that payment model. (If you can think of one, let me know). It is the most expensive payment model on the market. I see no reason why cosmetic cash shop items should not be included in the game for your subscription fee alone. Here is how I framed it in another thread:
Box + Sub = OK
Box + Shop = OK
Sub + Shop = Better be an amazing game and everything in the shop must be attainable in game at a fairly easy pace.
Box + Sub + Shop = WTF man...
These ARE only opinions. But I see a lot of others that feel the same way. I doubt that if someone that is interested in the game would read this and run away. I think the people that are interested in this game tend to be interested in different things. Combat is not necessarily the most important aspect to them. Wonky animations doesn't ruin the interesting stories and puzzles and environment. The payment model is ok with some people because the game justifies it to them. In my post, I was just saying that maybe it was time to stop claiming that the combat is amazing and focus on the amazing parts of the game.
I share some of your opinions as well. To expand on the pricing model, I believe that this pricing model is not very competitive anymore. Not only for TSW but for all MMOs. With so many f2p MMOs and many of them beign pretty high quallity paying a sub for more just feels like they are stealing my money these days. Since the start of my MMO playing days I always thought subs were horrible since I was used to paying for only the box price. Now its even harder for me to think about paying for a sub, it has to be a really amaizing game for me to pay a sub.
Lots of people are saying the animations are placeholders. If this is indeed true, if they managed to fix the animations for release *and* PvP is fun this coming weekend I might jump on this instead of GW2.
they did fix a lot of them but overall if you hated the system anytime testing it in the last month or so you wont like it at launch.. overall I find it acceptable but could have a better feel and I wish they went more survival horror esque instead but oh well.
I can agree with that. The style has not changed, but a lot has been added.
Interesting, what do you mean about "more survival horror esque."
survival horror esque look at games like Alan Wake or the early silent hills where it's more gritty combat all the enemies are pretty strong and even one zombie type could take you out if not careful. Right now its basic AOE mow down the easy guys and concentrate on the hard one type for solo play. Also the weight of weapons still doesn't translate well for instance carrying a sword and swinging it doesn't feel any differn't than carry around a giant lead pipe and swinging it around.
Having it more survival type would add more to the feel of the zones and add greatly to the immersion of the game like it does in those survival horror type games... that's not the direction they went and what is there I'm ok with but t still could be better.
I wonder if having a significantly higher number of people in a zone will help with this. There is something about the density of mobs, many/most of which are just standing there or moving in a limited-range pat, that really detracts from the experience from my perspective. One zombie should be a threat, but you regularly have mobs of 4 chewing on you at the start. And it remains that way in other zones.
I realize that the game does not use dynamic scaling but I think this would help. In my current build I use 5 abilities for aoe (shotgun, turret, teargas, whiteout and inferno) because I am regularly fighting multiple mobs and it works just as well on single-targets. Mob design is interesting, but not after you've killed 25 of them to carve your way to your destination. Again, this may change with more players in a zone.
Still, slower, less frequent and more "dangerous" combat would fit better into the world setting, at least from my perspective.
I agree and feel the dev's in a way wanted to play it more "safe" for MMO combat.. i think the slower type found in games like alan wake would work in an MMO if done well and having fewer(not a ton fewer but less "pack" fighting) more dangerous mobs would add a lot to the atmoshpere as a whole
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
To me it meant it was just not fun, and unless your idea of a corporate lab is a man cave in one corner of a garage, I am just a old guy who fell in love with this genre 20 years ago. You might want to take off the tinfoil hat. I don't think anyone is plotting FC'sdemise except maybe the management of Funcom. I really wish FC could get everything together just once, they have great ideas for their games but their shit executions are getting old.
I was really hoping for the best with this game since I have been reading the HP Lovecraft books since I was in High School.I gave it a fair shot I think, but it looks like another typical FC release just like AO and AoC
From pen and paper to BBSs and MUDS to now, I share the same past path and love for the genre as you. I feel completely different from you about the combat.
Different strokes for different folks. I think the game has a few great features, but for me the combat and animations over rode them. Can't ereally describe it but the gameplay just felt clunky and unpolished or something. Anyway good luck, and hope the game providss you with a few years of entertainment.
PvP is in the last open beta because its something that has required testing up until this point before it can be released to the open servers. PvP is "still" being tested, hence the NDA. There are still plenty of issues (which will come to light this weekend), and hopefully the response from the open servers will clue Funcom into what needs to be addressed asap. The closed community can only do so much.
Wtf does "The combat is bad mean." I think it's the most stupid undescript pseudo critique possible to give. It seem like that statement was cooked up in some corporate lab to discredit this dynimo of a genre changing game.
To me it meant it was just not fun, and unless your idea of a corporate lab is a man cave in one corner of a garage, I am just a old guy who fell in love with this genre 20 years ago. You might want to take off the tinfoil hat. I don't think anyone is plotting FC'sdemise except maybe the management of Funcom. I really wish FC could get everything together just once, they have great ideas for their games but their shit executions are getting old.
I was really hoping for the best with this game since I have been reading the HP Lovecraft books since I was in High School.I gave it a fair shot I think, but it looks like another typical FC release just like AO and AoC
Been following this title among others, this is exactly the way I feel, as an older gamer, I love the lovecraft series as well, but when I read the first time this game was being made by FC, well... needless to say I didnt' have high hopes. They really have great concepts and ideas. But for whatever reason, near launch those that have the ability to change and improve their game seem to think they deserver a year break, come back a year later then a new expansion is announced with all the fixes that should have been added in the first place. Rinse and repeat with every FC title to date. Simple deal here is , wait to see if it last a year and then get it that year. Sadly with the flood of MMO's, I don't think this one will last very long , just not enough interest in the genre.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
Because it's being compared to the other MMOs that are just being released (or close to it), specifically Tera and GW2... both which have significantly better combat and significantly better animations in my opinion.
It also doesn't have better combat than SWTOR or WoW, mostly because of sloppy targeting, mob AI and pathing.
TSW has really good excel sheet/theory crafting combat for things like figuring out the best synergy. A year or two ago that might have been enough, but the demographic for people that dig that sort of stuff is small and strinking.
^^fixed it for you.
I think Tera (*giggles*) and GW2 have significantly worse animations, because, unlike you, I'm not a fan of overly dramatic animations and "lightshow" effects. I also don't like technicolor worlds that are filled with rainbow and neon colors just because they can be. I actively dislike Tera's art style, whereas GW2's art style I just find too "rich". It gives me "visual heartburn".
It's not as good as some games - gw2, Aoc, planetside, probably tera but I've not played that.
To me its better combat than wow & swtor
How anyone can say bad combat though I don't know - bad combat is stuff like lotro, sto & rift.
Because it's being compared to the other MMOs that are just being released (or close to it), specifically Tera and GW2... both which have significantly better combat and significantly better animations in my opinion.
It also doesn't have better combat than SWTOR or WoW, mostly because of sloppy targeting, mob AI and pathing.
TSW has really good excel sheet/theory crafting combat for things like figuring out the best synergy. A year or two ago that might have been enough, but the demographic for people that dig that sort of stuff is small and strinking.
^^fixed it for you.
I think Tera (*giggles*) and GW2 have significantly worse animations, because, unlike you, I'm not a fan of overly dramatic animations and "lightshow" effects. I also don't like technicolor worlds that are filled with rainbow and neon colors just because they can be. I actively dislike Tera's art style, whereas GW2's art style I just find too "rich". It gives me "visual heartburn".
But that's just my opinion
No. That's like saying 80s movies have better effects because you don't like CGI. You might not like the style, but that has nothing to do with the actual quality.
lets be honest... TSW has way WAY better graphics than GW2 AND Tera.... Tera follows the Aionesque style were GW2 is blatant WoWism. TSW is the most realistic MMO to date. and it doesnt have the bullshit fluff that screams with GW2 combat.. the combat of GW2 caters to the severe ADD population.
lets be honest... TSW has way WAY better graphics than GW2 AND Tera.... Tera follows the Aionesque style were GW2 is blatant WoWism. TSW is the most realistic MMO to date. and it doesnt have the bullshit fluff that screams with GW2 combat.. the combat of GW2 caters to the severe ADD population.
not really.. also I prefer the overall look of TERA and GW2 way more than I like TSW but I like the enviornments overall in TSW a ton more than I do TERAs. It's all personal preference as all have very good looking and modern graphics. I happen to love the anime style in games. Also it is much harder to do real world settings well. For one the models are much easier to pick apart than the cartoony counterparts. To me TSW models do not have the right proportions and move very awkard in many ways. In fantasy games this is less noticeable and most of the time movements and animations are more exaggerated but it fits more with the artstyle. In a realistic game you are comparing it to well, real life... and when it doesn't mimic real life it feels off.
Then it comes down to asthetics and graphics which is a whole other topic in itself. TSW has some really great enviornments and zone settings but feel its weakest point is its character models by far. All is subjective though I happen to greatly enjoy the flashy effects in GW2 and the artwork fits my liking as well everyone has a differn't view of what looks good
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Comments
7 active abilities are too few IMO. I've played games where I've used upwards to 20 abilities regularly and others were I'm only restricted to a fraction of that (i.e. DCUO). The happy medium is 10, 7 feels to restrictive. GW2 has only a few extra abilities compared too TSW and it makes a world of difference.
So what exactly are your gripes with the 4 you've listed? Your gripes can also be positives. Have you played the most recent beta weekend?
Everyone complaining about combat animations... I haven't noticed 1 combat animation bug of the 30+ hours I played this last weekend. I've made 3 diff characters, all playing different roles, tried out over 100 skills and haven't noticed 1 bug/glitch in any of the animations. Not saying that maybe there is out there a few higher level skills that could be not worked out yet, but I haven't noticed anything to make animations such a huge deal that I've been seeing everyone critiquing lately.
Secondly, what exactly do you have wrong with the overall combat as your #1 negative? If it's a reflection of the animations, then it shouldn't be #1 nor even on the list if you've participated last weekend. Like I've said, I could be wrong, but with everything I've tried, no animation bugs here.
Thirdly, I don't see how the payment model is a problem nor should it be for anyone. Over 10 million people play World of Warcraft still today, and they have a very similar shop style just without clothing items which are a bigger part of TSW than WoW. WoW has 10 dollar non-combat pets, 25 dollar mounts and then there's the card game which people have to pay for the random chance of cards for in-game items, or buying them direct from other people. If that's not something to rag on about, then neither should TSW be hated for their cash shop style. It isn't pay to win, it's pay to look different than other people if you so wish to spend a bit extra money. Last time I checked, video game companies need to make money too so they can stay in business and bring us better patches and upgrades to the games we play.
Lastly, saying the game feels like a single-player game isn't even a detriment to the game. Let me ask you this, while you were leveling in World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 1, Age of Conan etc. were you always 100% of the time playing with other people besides your friends perhaps? I've leveled over 8 characters to 85 by myself in WoW, thankfully no longer playing, but besides the point, I don't claim it to be a single player game just because I chose to level faster and quicker by myself to just rush to end game. In TSW, It's not like that. You have nothing to rush to, take your time, explore everything and figure out the missions on your own without googling everything, unless you want that same boring quest grind and sad single player experience like other traditional MMO's provide.
Anyways, to the rest of you, if you are going to state negative things towards the game, please state why. As you can see, I've counter produces information for someone's negatives, although both of our statements are purely opinionated, but it still shows that the game is really worth checking out and deserves a 2nd chance for those that have previously been wronged by it in earlier stages of beta.
pvp?
hope you mean those friendly matches in the hubs, or did i miss sth in the last beta?
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
pvp will be in the next and last beta.
Oh ffs head start is like a week away. Somethings need to be said!
oh and yes that's what I'm talking about 
I wonder if having a significantly higher number of people in a zone will help with this. There is something about the density of mobs, many/most of which are just standing there or moving in a limited-range pat, that really detracts from the experience from my perspective. One zombie should be a threat, but you regularly have mobs of 4 chewing on you at the start. And it remains that way in other zones.
I realize that the game does not use dynamic scaling but I think this would help. In my current build I use 5 abilities for aoe (shotgun, turret, teargas, whiteout and inferno) because I am regularly fighting multiple mobs and it works just as well on single-targets. Mob design is interesting, but not after you've killed 25 of them to carve your way to your destination. Again, this may change with more players in a zone.
Still, slower, less frequent and more "dangerous" combat would fit better into the world setting, at least from my perspective.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Its only bad to those who want a more actiony combat but the thing is as much as I like that style myself, I still love the tab targetting style of combat just as much. With the latest BWE for TSW I could tell a noticable improvement in player animations and combat fluidity so let the haters hate and enjoy what you will.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I do not...
...understand...
...why the fuck...
...the NDA is still in effect. Makes no sense and simply leads to speculation and assumptions.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
That actually bugs me a lot also. I have now clue why the NDA is still up and this game has always been very closed. Still less than a month away from release they are not dropping it.
We're on the two week countdown and I don't know why the NDA is still in effect with no indication of when it will be dropped.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
AoC had the same NDA timetable, it is just how Funcom rolls.
Anyway, I've tried two of the beta weekends (and I'll play this one as well, I'm still on the fence of the game) and yes the combat and animation are my biggest complaint about the game. Not a fan of the character models either but I think I read that they will have more customizeable options at launch.
I just find it odd that AoC had fantastic combat and animations but this game is the opposite for me. Anyway, other than that it looks to be a great game.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
A few things first.
I didn't get detailed about the positives either.
Yes, I played in the last BWE.
I've gone into more detail in other threads about my opinions about combat.
The gripes and positives were not meant to be in order from worst to best or best to worst.
I'll let you know my opinions in more detail if you want.
Animations
You are using a straw man when you discuss animations. You say that you did not encounter any bugs. It's not really bugs that I think is the problem with them. I don't like that they aren't very well done. It feels somewhat like a throwback to EQ2 animations. The animations are poorly executed in my opinion.
Some people have said it's because it's much harder to get the animations right in a more realistic setting. I personally feel like they got the animations right in AoC, so why not here? I have a feeling this is going to be something they work on not only right as we speak, but also post launch since there are so many complaints about it.
Combat
I don't think it's horrible. I think it's below averge for today's standards. There are a few reasons for this.
1. I feel like they set up a situation where there is an overabundance of customization. If they were to make any of the skills too good, peope would gravitate heavily towards it. Especially in PvP and dungeon PvE. This leads to a homogenization of skills. I'll talk about this later.
2. I like the idea of a deck system, but literally only giving 7 active skills across 2 weapon types feels painfully limited. It feels like they are severly restricting creativity in a game that has so many options to have fun with.
3. Every weapon or magic type uses the combo builder system. To me, this makes going into other weapon types less interesting than it could be. For instance, I picked fists. I then later picked rifle. I felt the only real difference between the two was that one was ranged and one was melee. They both worked pretty much exactly the same. Fists tended to do more damage from melee range and the rifle tended to do less damage from range. But I was still doing pretty much the same thing.
4. Homogenization of skills. I think you could pretty much put all the "non-elite offensive" skills into these categories:
Direct Damage Builder
AOE Builder
DOT Builder
Direct Damage Finisher
AOE Finisher
DOT Finisher
So while yes, they have 9 million skills to choose from, they often feel similar to each other with a little twist. Elites are different and usually involve some form of CC, but you are only allowed 1 elite on your bars at a time. Probably exactly because they were having difficulty with extreme builds.
5. It feels like a circle strafe spam fest while soloing. Once you get a solid amount of skills, you start to develop optimal rotations for your build. Once you get these optimal rotations down, it feels like the outcome of a standard fight is predetermined. There isn't enough variety within 7 skills to keep it interesting.
Single Player Game
To me, it felt very much like SWTOR in that you are watching a story unfold as you progress through the world. There is nothing inherently wrong with this (or likely anything that I've mentioned), but I personlly prefer a more group oriented experience. It felt like people not only didn't care about grouping up, but they actively avoided it.
To be fair though, it feels a lot less linear than SWTOR and I personally feel like the quests are more interesting. (These are listed in the positives as I see them).
I have heard good things about their instances and we are going to get to try their PvP in 2 days, but the experience where you earn skill points/ability points through the world feels more single player than what I prefer in games.
Payment Model
Box + Sub + Shop
I think that it is unprecedented for a game to release with that payment model. (If you can think of one, let me know). It is the most expensive payment model on the market. I see no reason why cosmetic cash shop items should not be included in the game for your subscription fee alone. Here is how I framed it in another thread:
Box + Sub = OK
Box + Shop = OK
Sub + Shop = Better be an amazing game and everything in the shop must be attainable in game at a fairly easy pace.
Box + Sub + Shop = WTF man...
These ARE only opinions. But I see a lot of others that feel the same way. I doubt that if someone that is interested in the game would read this and run away. I think the people that are interested in this game tend to be interested in different things. Combat is not necessarily the most important aspect to them. Wonky animations doesn't ruin the interesting stories and puzzles and environment. The payment model is ok with some people because the game justifies it to them. In my post, I was just saying that maybe it was time to stop claiming that the combat is amazing and focus on the amazing parts of the game.
Heh, yeah it won't put people at ease but I'm just saying that is how they operate.
Here is hoping that they have learned their lesson in bad launches.
I share some of your opinions as well. To expand on the pricing model, I believe that this pricing model is not very competitive anymore. Not only for TSW but for all MMOs. With so many f2p MMOs and many of them beign pretty high quallity paying a sub for more just feels like they are stealing my money these days. Since the start of my MMO playing days I always thought subs were horrible since I was used to paying for only the box price. Now its even harder for me to think about paying for a sub, it has to be a really amaizing game for me to pay a sub.
I agree and feel the dev's in a way wanted to play it more "safe" for MMO combat.. i think the slower type found in games like alan wake would work in an MMO if done well and having fewer(not a ton fewer but less "pack" fighting) more dangerous mobs would add a lot to the atmoshpere as a whole
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Melee single builder
Mid single builder
Rabge single builder
Magic single melee builder
Range single melee builder
Melee chain builder
Mid chain builder
Range chain builder
Magic melee chain builder
Magic range chain builder
Add consumers to all of these and remeber all consumers are not full concumers
GTAoE
PBAoE
Single target heals
Chain heals
Hots
AoE heals
Stuns
Silences
Knovk downs
Snares
All add range melee and mid to all CC
Offensive CDs
Defensive CDs
Multi Hit attacks
Leeches
I'm missing about 6 or 7 others.... If you don't take these things into consideration you just might gimp yourself pretty good
how can you compare a mmoFPS :P? to an mmo"rpg" combat i would agree with gw2 and aoc but Planetside really? come on.
Different strokes for different folks. I think the game has a few great features, but for me the combat and animations over rode them. Can't ereally describe it but the gameplay just felt clunky and unpolished or something. Anyway good luck, and hope the game providss you with a few years of entertainment.
I miss DAoC
PvP is in the last open beta because its something that has required testing up until this point before it can be released to the open servers. PvP is "still" being tested, hence the NDA. There are still plenty of issues (which will come to light this weekend), and hopefully the response from the open servers will clue Funcom into what needs to be addressed asap. The closed community can only do so much.
Been following this title among others, this is exactly the way I feel, as an older gamer, I love the lovecraft series as well, but when I read the first time this game was being made by FC, well... needless to say I didnt' have high hopes. They really have great concepts and ideas. But for whatever reason, near launch those that have the ability to change and improve their game seem to think they deserver a year break, come back a year later then a new expansion is announced with all the fixes that should have been added in the first place. Rinse and repeat with every FC title to date. Simple deal here is , wait to see if it last a year and then get it that year. Sadly with the flood of MMO's, I don't think this one will last very long , just not enough interest in the genre.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Well put!! ^^^^^^^
lets be honest... TSW has way WAY better graphics than GW2 AND Tera.... Tera follows the Aionesque style were GW2 is blatant WoWism. TSW is the most realistic MMO to date. and it doesnt have the bullshit fluff that screams with GW2 combat.. the combat of GW2 caters to the severe ADD population.
not really.. also I prefer the overall look of TERA and GW2 way more than I like TSW but I like the enviornments overall in TSW a ton more than I do TERAs. It's all personal preference as all have very good looking and modern graphics. I happen to love the anime style in games. Also it is much harder to do real world settings well. For one the models are much easier to pick apart than the cartoony counterparts. To me TSW models do not have the right proportions and move very awkard in many ways. In fantasy games this is less noticeable and most of the time movements and animations are more exaggerated but it fits more with the artstyle. In a realistic game you are comparing it to well, real life... and when it doesn't mimic real life it feels off.
Then it comes down to asthetics and graphics which is a whole other topic in itself. TSW has some really great enviornments and zone settings but feel its weakest point is its character models by far. All is subjective though I happen to greatly enjoy the flashy effects in GW2 and the artwork fits my liking as well everyone has a differn't view of what looks good
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg