I gave my opinion after playing all the beta's and i experienced nothing new..
the combat just fails.. simple is that..
im used to player skill with aim.. or atleast use some brain in teamplay...this is nothing more and aeo spell smash fest..
not gonna start and back and forth conversation tho..
I gave my opinion.. process it in whatever way you like
It's good to give an opinion but stating "there are no skills that affect the party" is totally wrong. Also, I only gave a counter argument, I gave my opinion or your opinion.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
1) a noob will always be a noob - you can't get better because the gear doesn't get better. You can't be better because when you fight lower level mobs you are downleveled to their level. I don't have the reflexes to compete with the game or other players and though experience with the combat system helps, I will always be a noob.
2) no trinity makes for longer, boring fights - everything is dps and everyone has battle rez. Looking at the boss videos and seeing the three to four hours it takes to bring down a single boss this game cries out for the trinity. [I find it amusing. Everyone assumes that it was the game companies that made the trinity concept where it was actually the product of intelligent gamers.] The boss fights look intense but so is Diablo 3 and I can only take so much of that as well. After about the 20th wipe I am done. I admire and respect those players that can keep trying but for me - no interest.
3) crafting bottlenecks - crafting is fun until you hit the vial of trolls blood. Every single decent low level item requiries a rare drop. This killed crafting for me. Yes I could buy it. I expect this at the higher crafting levels - but at the level of the first decent gear!!!???
4) leveling in the future - by this I mean that there are many DEs that require you to kill a higher level mob in an area. Once you kill the mob that area is available for questing. This is a great concept and works fine when there are plenty of players to help with the DE. I am concerned about the future - what happens when the vast majority of players have progressed past that level? No one to help you - you are stuck. I already saw this in at least two of the Norn areas.
5) no healer - yes the elementalist can heal but not so much. I play a healer in most other mmos. Although GW2 cries out for a healer no such luck. I almost get angry at the Norn quest fighting the big shaman at the frozen lake. So many players dying. Yes I do battle rez as much as I can but that is no subsitute for keeping another player alive.
6) it is a numbers game in pvp - I don't know how to explain it but all I have seen of WvWvW is that the bigger side wins. I am not talking about 100 vs 50, I am talking about 2 and 3 versus 1. Of the three hours I was in WvWvW I think that I only saw 2 cases where one player was able to take on 2 enemy players and kill them through the downed state. Maybe I was on the wrong server but that is what I saw and I was un-impressed.
Most of my dislikes are contrary to the ANet philosophy and are painted as selling points by ANet. I respect that. I also like a lot of what I see in GW2. I will buy it (have bought it) but as for playing it long term - no, not for this noob.
im used to player skill with aim.. or atleast use some brain in teamplay...this is nothing more and aeo spell smash fest..
If you play like that, mashing random abilities, it's normal you don't like the game, since you didn't even understand the basics of it... and you will die a lot too.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
1) a noob will always be a noob - you can't get better because the gear doesn't get better. You can't be better because when you fight lower level mobs you are downleveled to their level. I don't have the reflexes to compete with the game or other players and though experience with the combat system helps, I will always be a noob.
You get better with gear, and even when downleveled, you are still more powerful than the players of the exact level because you have more skills, and also better (higher level) gear. I'm not sure I understand the second part of your argument though... so you are bad at the game, and expect gear to compensate for that? Well, my opinion is that you need gear to compensate for your lack of skill, you are still... what you call "a noob"... when you can win against other equally powerful players, that's when you are no longer "a noob".
2) no trinity makes for longer, boring fights - everything is dps and everyone has battle rez. Looking at the boss videos and seeing the three to four hours it takes to bring down a single boss this game cries out for the trinity. [I find it amusing. Everyone assumes that it was the game companies that made the trinity concept where it was actually the product of intelligent gamers.] The boss fights look intense but so is Diablo 3 and I can only take so much of that as well. After about the 20th wipe I am done. I admire and respect those players that can keep trying but for me - no interest.
A change of habits is hard for many. If you need 20 wipes to drop a boss in GW2, it's because like in other games, you made major errors and "stood in the fire" too long. And 3 to 4 hours to drop a boss? Are you sure you are talking about GW2 and not some WoW clone?
3) crafting bottlenecks - crafting is fun until you hit the vial of trolls blood. Every single decent low level item requiries a rare drop. This killed crafting for me. Yes I could buy it. I expect this at the higher crafting levels - but at the level of the first decent gear!!!???
I have the bank full of rare items... I don't see the problem. Thankfully the best items are harder to make, or there would be no point.
4) leveling in the future - by this I mean that there are many DEs that require you to kill a higher level mob in an area. Once you kill the mob that area is available for questing. This is a great concept and works fine when there are plenty of players to help with the DE. I am concerned about the future - what happens when the vast majority of players have progressed past that level? No one to help you - you are stuck. I already saw this in at least two of the Norn areas.
Wrong, there are no DEs completely blocking you an area, and there are definitely not requiring you to kill a higher level mob unless you are in the wrong area. The DEs also scale to the number of participants, there will be no problem even if you are alone, all those mobs will be weaker and in smaller numbers.
5) no healer - yes the elementalist can heal but not so much. I play a healer in most other mmos. Although GW2 cries out for a healer no such luck. I almost get angry at the Norn quest fighting the big shaman at the frozen lake. So many players dying. Yes I do battle rez as much as I can but that is no subsitute for keeping another player alive.
Don't underestimate the importance of support roles in GW2. They are essential to the success of harder fights, but most players aren't used to them yet and play them badly because they are stuck in the "trinity" model. And ANet already said that the shaman was imbalanced when too many people were around, they are still working on that.
6) it is a numbers game in pvp - I don't know how to explain it but all I have seen of WvWvW is that the bigger side wins. I am not talking about 100 vs 50, I am talking about 2 and 3 versus 1. Of the three hours I was in WvWvW I think that I only saw 2 cases where one player was able to take on 2 enemy players and kill them through the downed state. Maybe I was on the wrong server but that is what I saw and I was un-impressed.
You know, 2 versus 1 is the same as 100 versus 50... and ANet are also working on this, they are improving the matchmaking system to that very high pop servers aren't opposed to lower pop ones. But it's kinda normal that two players have an advantage when they fight a single one... please name one game where this isn't true!
Most of my dislikes are contrary to the ANet philosophy and are painted as selling points by ANet. I respect that. I also like a lot of what I see in GW2. I will buy it (have bought it) but as for playing it long term - no, not for this noob.
Most of your dislikes seem to come from a misunderstanding of the game mechanics, and also of being used to EQ/WoW clone model trinity based fights. You have to get rid of that mentality completely and start from scratch. The game is way easier to understand for veterans who have played games like Asheron's Call, I can understand it can be confusing for those who only played WoW clones.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The combat system in gw2 is pretty bad.. its nothing more then smashing buttons.. you have no idea wtf is going on
Gw1 had an very good coordination teamplay.. since in gw2 everyone can do all the things @ the same time there is no teamplay involved..
FYI: there is not a single spell in gw2 which benefits one partymember in any sort of way.. like a cleansing a debuff or single heal a person..
Wow just wow. Stopped reading here because apparently someone wasn't paying attention to anything in the game or they never played the beta. Either way they missed out on the entire game. Have to wonder sometimes what's happening to people when they play something, are they really paying attention to the tooltips when playing a game or do they want the game to think for them? Do they want a game where they must learn their class or do they want to simply press buttons and let whatever happens be the right thing at the time? Just amazes me....
1) a noob will always be a noob - you can't get better because the gear doesn't get better. You can't be better because when you fight lower level mobs you are downleveled to their level. I don't have the reflexes to compete with the game or other players and though experience with the combat system helps, I will always be a noob.
You get better with gear, and even when downleveled, you are still more powerful than the players of the exact level because you have more skills, and also better (higher level) gear. I'm not sure I understand the second part of your argument though... so you are bad at the game, and expect gear to compensate for that? Well, my opinion is that you need gear to compensate for your lack of skill, you are still... what you call "a noob"... when you can win against other equally powerful players, that's when you are no longer "a noob".
2) no trinity makes for longer, boring fights - everything is dps and everyone has battle rez. Looking at the boss videos and seeing the three to four hours it takes to bring down a single boss this game cries out for the trinity. [I find it amusing. Everyone assumes that it was the game companies that made the trinity concept where it was actually the product of intelligent gamers.] The boss fights look intense but so is Diablo 3 and I can only take so much of that as well. After about the 20th wipe I am done. I admire and respect those players that can keep trying but for me - no interest.
A change of habits is hard for many. If you need 20 wipes to drop a boss in GW2, it's because like in other games, you made major errors and "stood in the fire" too long. And 3 to 4 hours to drop a boss? Are you sure you are talking about GW2 and not some WoW clone?
3) crafting bottlenecks - crafting is fun until you hit the vial of trolls blood. Every single decent low level item requiries a rare drop. This killed crafting for me. Yes I could buy it. I expect this at the higher crafting levels - but at the level of the first decent gear!!!???
I have the bank full of rare items... I don't see the problem. Thankfully the best items are harder to make, or there would be no point.
4) leveling in the future - by this I mean that there are many DEs that require you to kill a higher level mob in an area. Once you kill the mob that area is available for questing. This is a great concept and works fine when there are plenty of players to help with the DE. I am concerned about the future - what happens when the vast majority of players have progressed past that level? No one to help you - you are stuck. I already saw this in at least two of the Norn areas.
Wrong, there are no DEs completely blocking you an area, and there are definitely not requiring you to kill a higher level mob unless you are in the wrong area. The DEs also scale to the number of participants, there will be no problem even if you are alone, all those mobs will be weaker and in smaller numbers.
5) no healer - yes the elementalist can heal but not so much. I play a healer in most other mmos. Although GW2 cries out for a healer no such luck. I almost get angry at the Norn quest fighting the big shaman at the frozen lake. So many players dying. Yes I do battle rez as much as I can but that is no subsitute for keeping another player alive.
Don't underestimate the importance of support roles in GW2. They are essential to the success of harder fights, but most players aren't used to them yet and play them badly because they are stuck in the "trinity" model. And ANet already said that the shaman was imbalanced when too many people were around, they are still working on that.
6) it is a numbers game in pvp - I don't know how to explain it but all I have seen of WvWvW is that the bigger side wins. I am not talking about 100 vs 50, I am talking about 2 and 3 versus 1. Of the three hours I was in WvWvW I think that I only saw 2 cases where one player was able to take on 2 enemy players and kill them through the downed state. Maybe I was on the wrong server but that is what I saw and I was un-impressed.
You know, 2 versus 1 is the same as 100 versus 50... and ANet are also working on this, they are improving the matchmaking system to that very high pop servers aren't opposed to lower pop ones. But it's kinda normal that two players have an advantage when they fight a single one... please name one game where this isn't true!
Most of my dislikes are contrary to the ANet philosophy and are painted as selling points by ANet. I respect that. I also like a lot of what I see in GW2. I will buy it (have bought it) but as for playing it long term - no, not for this noob.
Most of your dislikes seem to come from a misunderstanding of the game mechanics, and also of being used to EQ/WoW clone model trinity based fights. You have to get rid of that mentality completely and start from scratch. The game is way easier to understand for veterans who have played games like Asheron's Call, I can understand it can be confusing for those who only played WoW clones.
1) a noob will always be a noob - you can't get better because the gear doesn't get better. You can't be better because when you fight lower level mobs you are downleveled to their level. I don't have the reflexes to compete with the game or other players and though experience with the combat system helps, I will always be a noob.
2) no trinity makes for longer, boring fights - everything is dps and everyone has battle rez. Looking at the boss videos and seeing the three to four hours it takes to bring down a single boss this game cries out for the trinity. [I find it amusing. Everyone assumes that it was the game companies that made the trinity concept where it was actually the product of intelligent gamers.] The boss fights look intense but so is Diablo 3 and I can only take so much of that as well. After about the 20th wipe I am done. I admire and respect those players that can keep trying but for me - no interest.
3) crafting bottlenecks - crafting is fun until you hit the vial of trolls blood. Every single decent low level item requiries a rare drop. This killed crafting for me. Yes I could buy it. I expect this at the higher crafting levels - but at the level of the first decent gear!!!???
4) leveling in the future - by this I mean that there are many DEs that require you to kill a higher level mob in an area. Once you kill the mob that area is available for questing. This is a great concept and works fine when there are plenty of players to help with the DE. I am concerned about the future - what happens when the vast majority of players have progressed past that level? No one to help you - you are stuck. I already saw this in at least two of the Norn areas.
5) no healer - yes the elementalist can heal but not so much. I play a healer in most other mmos. Although GW2 cries out for a healer no such luck. I almost get angry at the Norn quest fighting the big shaman at the frozen lake. So many players dying. Yes I do battle rez as much as I can but that is no subsitute for keeping another player alive.
6) it is a numbers game in pvp - I don't know how to explain it but all I have seen of WvWvW is that the bigger side wins. I am not talking about 100 vs 50, I am talking about 2 and 3 versus 1. Of the three hours I was in WvWvW I think that I only saw 2 cases where one player was able to take on 2 enemy players and kill them through the downed state. Maybe I was on the wrong server but that is what I saw and I was un-impressed.
Most of my dislikes are contrary to the ANet philosophy and are painted as selling points by ANet. I respect that. I also like a lot of what I see in GW2. I will buy it (have bought it) but as for playing it long term - no, not for this noob.
Ummm... i wouldnt put my bet on that. I did partial healings as Elementalist, yet i didnt find them weak at all. I wouldnt even start on what would be if i did fully dedicated myself to healing, because i dont want to do that in this game.
Are you sure you are doing everything right?
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
"When someone expresses an opinion the fanboys attack them"
"can't say anything wrong about this game without getting attacked"
"they usually have valid points but they are attacked anyway"
or any combination of the above
Well, for one, i am ok with people like tordurbar (well, maybe except for the part against Anet philosophy, because its too general). However what i cant stand is "i dont like this game, so it will be greatest fail of all fails of all the time" mentallity people. I am yet to see one of them stating valid argument why will game fail, other than his personal opinion.
Same thing as being extreme 'fanboy' (oh i hate when i even have to use that word)...
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
"When someone expresses an opinion the fanboys attack them"
"can't say anything wrong about this game without getting attacked"
"they usually have valid points but they are attacked anyway"
or any combination of the above
how is disagreeing with someone "attacking"? Sure, there are haters and trolls for every game, but a lot of what I've read here are reasonable answers to both good and bad critiques of GW2.
"When someone expresses an opinion the fanboys attack them"
"can't say anything wrong about this game without getting attacked"
"they usually have valid points but they are attacked anyway"
or any combination of the above
how is disagreeing with someone "attacking"? Sure, there are haters and trolls for every game, but a lot of what I've read here are reasonable answers to both good and bad critiques of GW2.
I don't consider that post to be an "attack" in any way. But I don't consider "attacks" other posts on this thread either. Yet we get complaints, when somone is disagreeing with a poster, that they are attacking them and their personal opinions or something along those lines
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
2) Questing, It feels like a new way of doing the old method, I didn't like it at all, just felt like a grind and box check ...it was soooooo boring
3) Can jump to highest level to PVP, i hate that
4) Cash shop(although I don't know much about it)
5) Loading screens between zones
6) I don't like the way the game maniupulates your level to correspond to the content
7) No open world PVP
8) Little to no character progression
9) The price is rediculous, glad I played it on roommates account before purchasing
10) It felt like a crappy PVP E-sport with optional, kinda pointless PVE, and to be honest I enjoy PVE more.
----Also, I bet I get someone who will quote this post and try to refute my own opinion.
You are right about getting quoted... I am not going to refute you, as you said it is your opinion... So we already know to take it with a grain of salt because there is no need for facts in an opinion...
But that being said, I have a few questions to clarify this...
1) The server lock. I assume you mean the fact that once you choose a server all of your characters are created on that server? Are you aware that you can "guest" and go to any server to PvE at any time? And that if you find a server you like better than yours you can re-home all of your characters to that server? The stated goal is to prevent people from server hopping to always go to whichever server is "the best" in terms of WvW. Can you provide an alternative solution that would provide the same goal? Do you agree with the goal?
2) What do you mean "box check"? Did you spend your time just running around doing hearts? If so, do you realise that hearts are not Dynamic Events? Did you take the time to listen to the NPCs around you? If you see an NPC running towards an outpost or a group of NPCs running towards a defensive point, do you ask yourself "hmmm, I wonder what is going on?" and follow, or do you say "Meh, nothing over their head, no point..."?
3-a) In structured PVP everyone is equalized. Can you tell me what the point would be of having people at different levels/gear in structured pvp?
3-b) In WvW everyone's HEALTH is ranked up to the equivalent they would have at 80, and their damage mitigation/etc is scaled. Their skills/unlocked traits/etc. are not changed. Can you tell me what the point would be of having people in WvW or even open world who's life is low enough that a lvl 80 could 1-hit kill them? How about 2-hits? 3?
4) You say you don't know much about it, which probably means you are against cash shops in general. To put it in perspective, as an example, they sell additional inventory space there. Now, you start with a 15 slot bag and 4 places to add additional bags. Through crafting or drops I've seen bags as large as 15 slot, 20 if you use a rune of holding on them... So that is potentially 95 inventory slots WITHOUT BUYING ANYTHING. Can someone who buys the extra bag slots hold more? sure... Is it game-breaking? no way. Not only that, but you can buy the cash-shop items with in-game currency, AND they have convenience features in the game that ameliorate the pain of inventory space(like being able to bank crafting mats from anywhere in the world). Other things are similar.
5) Loading screens between zones are so few and far between that its not even worth commenting on, imo. Each zone is huge and covers a huge bracket. If you want to go to a geographically distant area(equivalent of, say, going from city to city or continent to continent in WoW) you are going to need to zone, same way they did(remember the zeppelins with the loading screen?). Some games are better at hiding it, some are worse... but all games have zone borders.
6) If you don't like the way the game does it, what would you prefer? Just to be clear, you are talking about the way that the game scales you down to the max level of the region you are in(so in the 5-8 area you are set to lvl 8) so that all content remains challenging and rewarding, correct? Now just to clarify that we are on the same page in terms of what it means, you are scaled down to the level of the zone, but given experience and loot appropriate for your real level. What is your specific objection to this mechanic, and how would you prefer to handle it?
7) What do you mean by "open world PvP"? Do you mean being able to attack anyone in the PvE area, irregardless of level or what they are doing? Does this have anything to do with number 6? Do you dislike being leveled down to the level of the area because you would prefer to go to lower levels as a high level to attack people trying to PvE? If not, what exactly do you mean by "open world PvP" and how exactly would you implement it, and to what purpose?
8) Despite the fact that there are a huge number of skills and available builds for each class? And despite the fact that leveling to 80 will not give you enough points to get everything, you will still need to go and do skill challenges, etc? And that is just for builds. There is also your characters story line, etc. What kind of progression would you prefer? How can they improve it? Did you submit any suggestions during your beta time?
9) The price is the same(or even less) than most other games on the market at release(barring exceptions like TL2). There is no sub fee. What would you consider a reasonable price for games? Are there any games that you would accept at $50?
10) Were you doing structured PvP? WvW? How long did you play for in each? In WvW what activities did you do? In PvE what were you doing? see #2.
"When someone expresses an opinion the fanboys attack them"
"can't say anything wrong about this game without getting attacked"
"they usually have valid points but they are attacked anyway"
or any combination of the above
so saying things like this
"The combat system in gw2 is pretty bad.. its nothing more then smashing buttons.. you have no idea wtf is going on
Gw1 had an very good coordination teamplay.. since in gw2 everyone can do all the things @ the same time there is no teamplay involved..
FYI: there is not a single spell in gw2 which benefits one partymember in any sort of way.. like a cleansing a debuff or single heal a person.."
is such a well researched and well informed statement you know. yeah...you might wanna check your last statement there bub, when people say things that are completely false, yes that's when they'll get pounced on in these forums.
Here are two of my other favorite idiotic statements about the game....
The problem with GW2 is a simple one. It is a generational problem. You have two generations of players.
Generation Old and Generation New.
Generation Old (players 45+ of age)
Generation New (players 12-40+ of age)
Generation old, grew up playing mostly PC games, moe used to the old Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) slower reflexes, more planning, time invested in grinding to get better gears, work better as a group using ventrillo, mumble etc)
Generation new, grew up playing with Nintendo, game controllers, etc etc, quick reflexes, love changes and love GW2 style of game.
I am afraid GW2 was created to serve and cater the New Generation more than the old one. So for old people like me GW2 will be reach level 20 tops before shelving it and once every 6 months dust it off, play for 20-30 minutes and shelving it again for another 3-6 months.
The game is not bad for the contrary graphics, landscape are awesome, it is just not designed for older players.
"The combat system in gw2 is pretty bad.. its nothing more then smashing buttons.. you have no idea wtf is going on
Gw1 had an very good coordination teamplay.. since in gw2 everyone can do all the things @ the same time there is no teamplay involved..
FYI: there is not a single spell in gw2 which benefits one partymember in any sort of way.. like a cleansing a debuff or single heal a person.."
is such a well researched and well informed statement you know. yeah...you might wanna check your last statement there bub, when people say things that are completely false, yes that's when they'll get pounced on in these forums.
Here are two of my other favorite idiotic statements about the game....
Too much Hype.
Pay to Win cash shop.
Both of which are completely false as well.
I agree with what you wrote and I really enjoy GW2 BWEs but lets admit it, the game is overhyped like its the second coming of Jesus.
That doesn't mean the game is bad, but Its one of the most hyped online games of the last few years mostly by its fans, albeit Anet isnt completely innocent.
I am afraid GW2 was created to serve and cater the New Generation more than the old one. So for old people like me GW2 will be reach level 20 tops before shelving it and once every 6 months dust it off, play for 20-30 minutes and shelving it again for another 3-6 months.
According to the "standard" definition of older-newer it might be true. However if you split "generations" a bit differently, as in older: those who have been playing games for long, not being of older age, they will mostly like the ideas of GW2. It's the newer GAMING generation, those who grew up in a world full of conviniencies, like the exclamation marks, or the scripted encounters or the quest hubs that refuse to adapt or find change difficult. For example, the whole reason they implemented the Renown Heart system was because of people who came from WoW-like MMOs and couldn't comperhend doing something without being told to do it.
@itgrowls: I totally agree with you. I didn't post that because I thought The_Korrigan was attacking anyone. It's a fact that sooner or later on any post arguing about GW2 someone comes and says something along the lines I posted, trying to defend the opinion of some, but neglecting the "counter - opinion" of others. It's good to have lots of differing opinions, but word them like opinions, otherwise there will be counter-arguments to blatant lies
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
The problem with GW2 is a simple one. It is a generational problem. You have two generations of players.
Generation Old and Generation New.
Generation Old (players 45+ of age)
Generation New (players 12-40+ of age)
Generation old, grew up playing mostly PC games, moe used to the old Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) slower reflexes, more planning, time invested in grinding to get better gears, work better as a group using ventrillo, mumble etc)
Generation new, grew up playing with Nintendo, game controllers, etc etc, quick reflexes, love changes and love GW2 style of game.
I am afraid GW2 was created to serve and cater the New Generation more than the old one. So for old people like me GW2 will be reach level 20 tops before shelving it and once every 6 months dust it off, play for 20-30 minutes and shelving it again for another 3-6 months.
The game is not bad for the contrary graphics, landscape are awesome, it is just not designed for older players.
As a 45 year old man, I disagree with your assumptions.
In fact, your whole premise is wrong, imo. The players that will be shelving GW2 in a few months, will be the "spoiled crowd", because they cant seem to ever be satisfied. They blow right thru the content, then complain on the forums that there wasnt enough content, and flame anybody who disagrees.
Then they get to end game, and that of course is not enough either. They will demand things like, gear grinding or more levels, so they can feel like they "accomplished something", instead of just enjoying the game.
Age does not seem to be a factor for which crowd a player is in, imo.
The problem with GW2 is a simple one. It is a generational problem. You have two generations of players.
Generation Old and Generation New.
Generation Old (players 45+ of age)
Generation New (players 12-40+ of age)
Generation old, grew up playing mostly PC games, moe used to the old Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) slower reflexes, more planning, time invested in grinding to get better gears, work better as a group using ventrillo, mumble etc)
Generation new, grew up playing with Nintendo, game controllers, etc etc, quick reflexes, love changes and love GW2 style of game.
I am afraid GW2 was created to serve and cater the New Generation more than the old one. So for old people like me GW2 will be reach level 20 tops before shelving it and once every 6 months dust it off, play for 20-30 minutes and shelving it again for another 3-6 months.
The game is not bad for the contrary graphics, landscape are awesome, it is just not designed for older players.
I love how you set the "old generation" limit just before your own age at 45... I'm 43 and I lived the domestic computer revolutions of the 80s from start to end. But what a convenient way to dismiss the opinions of everyone who is younger than you, right?
I was in UO beta, I've played AC1 for years, but I was also playing computer RPGs and pen&paper RPGs before many here were still only concepts in their parent's brains or didn't leave the kid's beta test phase and didn't know what a RPG is. Yet I like GW2 a lot, and I can't wait to play it more with my final characters... my reflexes come from action games of the 80s (galaga, scramble, fort apocalypse, jet set willie, etc... I could spend a day listing them all and I wouldn't be done) and 90s (wolfenstein, doom, quake, etc...). I never owned a console.
So opinions are fine, but you should be old enough to know better than to make them generalizations
In fact, I notice that many people who are complaining about GW2's mechanic are that new generation who never played anything other than WoW clones... food for thoughts.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by mayito7777 The problem with GW2 is a simple one. It is a generational problem. You have two generations of players.Generation Old and Generation New.Generation Old (players 45+ of age)Generation New (players 12-40+ of age)Generation old, grew up playing mostly PC games, moe used to the old Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) slower reflexes, more planning, time invested in grinding to get better gears, work better as a group using ventrillo, mumble etc)Generation new, grew up playing with Nintendo, game controllers, etc etc, quick reflexes, love changes and love GW2 style of game. I am afraid GW2 was created to serve and cater the New Generation more than the old one. So for old people like me GW2 will be reach level 20 tops before shelving it and once every 6 months dust it off, play for 20-30 minutes and shelving it again for another 3-6 months. The game is not bad for the contrary graphics, landscape are awesome, it is just not designed for older players.
As someone who turns 50 tomorrow and is an avid fan of GW2 I would like to dispute your suggestion that it's not the game for older gamers. I welcome change, it's not about stereotypes that say older people find change harder it's all about your attitude to change, regardless of age, being able to welcome and adjust to it. I have no doubt that it will be a game I can lose myself in for the long term.
The problem with GW2 is a simple one. It is a generational problem. You have two generations of players.
Generation Old and Generation New.
Generation Old (players 45+ of age)
Generation New (players 12-40+ of age)
Generation old, grew up playing mostly PC games, moe used to the old Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) slower reflexes, more planning, time invested in grinding to get better gears, work better as a group using ventrillo, mumble etc)
Generation new, grew up playing with Nintendo, game controllers, etc etc, quick reflexes, love changes and love GW2 style of game.
I am afraid GW2 was created to serve and cater the New Generation more than the old one. So for old people like me GW2 will be reach level 20 tops before shelving it and once every 6 months dust it off, play for 20-30 minutes and shelving it again for another 3-6 months.
The game is not bad for the contrary graphics, landscape are awesome, it is just not designed for older players.
Uh...what?
I'm 34. You know the first MMO I played? Gemstone. That's OLD SCHOOL, son. Meridian 59, too. I also played EQ1 back in the day. The trinity didn't really exist in those games. It did a little in EQ, but we had plenty of "4 DPS play ping pong with the mob" groups work just fine. Slower? As a feign death monk puller, lemme tell you a thing or two about reflexes and timing. One second was the difference between pulling one mob safely for your group to kill, or wiping everyone. I won't argue with the grinding part, that was true...but vent? Man in my day we had party chat and that was IT. I WISH we had vent back then. woulda killed my dialup but man woulda made fights easier.
Oh, and I LOVE GW2. Because it was designed for older gamers in my mind.
Newer gamers are your WoW generation. Used to the game telling them where the next quest is, Used to be led along by the nose in a straight line for 85 levels, used to combat so dull and predictable you could get up in the middle of a raid boss, go to the bathroom, come back, and stll be alive (I did it in WoW. As a TANK.)
Oh and Nintendo and games relying on reflexes is something new? The NES is something close to 30 years old, you know...And my Atari 2600 was all about game controllers and twitching too.
LOL I am waaaay pass 45, lol, it is hard for me (I am a tipical tank player) toi figure out all these jump around, double tap to dodge when at the same time I am healing and attacking, my eye and hands coordination conflict with each other, lol now on the other hand if I could macro jump, heal, dodge, attack in one key I would be fine, but that is not the case.
I played the beta and between looking for the dodge key and the heal key and move and jump and attack, poof dead, I died so many times I ran out of money.
It is hard for old brains to get use to the new tank that is as fragile as a 4000 years old egyptian mummy, a tank that needs to run and dodge like a typical rogue and trying to figure out where the mob is at the same time. Those mobs move very fast, and they carry a powerful arsenal of spells and DPS casts
If the bar will allow the player to have more stuff on it, maybe 1-10 and another bar for other stuff maybe would not be that hard, but right now the UI bar is the same as GW1, you have very limited amount of skils to use at one particular time, you need to switch, change, change weapon all in one key, and on top of that a mob punching you like Mohamed Ali. The amount of damage is way too much, they need to nerf the amount of damage caused by the mobs per hit, not in total, but per hit. So the players can develop and use all the skills available to them..
Well, i don't agree that GW2 isn't for older mmo players (that's personall liking), and while i haven't played the older mmo, one thing i really don't like about this game (and most mmorpgs today aswell) is the extreme focus on combat related activities.
Comments
I gave my opinion after playing all the beta's and i experienced nothing new..
the combat just fails.. simple is that..
im used to player skill with aim.. or atleast use some brain in teamplay...this is nothing more and aeo spell smash fest..
not gonna start and back and forth conversation tho..
I gave my opinion.. process it in whatever way you like
It's good to give an opinion but stating "there are no skills that affect the party" is totally wrong. Also, I only gave a counter argument, I gave my opinion or your opinion.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Deleted
Things that i don't like about GW2:
1) a noob will always be a noob - you can't get better because the gear doesn't get better. You can't be better because when you fight lower level mobs you are downleveled to their level. I don't have the reflexes to compete with the game or other players and though experience with the combat system helps, I will always be a noob.
2) no trinity makes for longer, boring fights - everything is dps and everyone has battle rez. Looking at the boss videos and seeing the three to four hours it takes to bring down a single boss this game cries out for the trinity. [I find it amusing. Everyone assumes that it was the game companies that made the trinity concept where it was actually the product of intelligent gamers.] The boss fights look intense but so is Diablo 3 and I can only take so much of that as well. After about the 20th wipe I am done. I admire and respect those players that can keep trying but for me - no interest.
3) crafting bottlenecks - crafting is fun until you hit the vial of trolls blood. Every single decent low level item requiries a rare drop. This killed crafting for me. Yes I could buy it. I expect this at the higher crafting levels - but at the level of the first decent gear!!!???
4) leveling in the future - by this I mean that there are many DEs that require you to kill a higher level mob in an area. Once you kill the mob that area is available for questing. This is a great concept and works fine when there are plenty of players to help with the DE. I am concerned about the future - what happens when the vast majority of players have progressed past that level? No one to help you - you are stuck. I already saw this in at least two of the Norn areas.
5) no healer - yes the elementalist can heal but not so much. I play a healer in most other mmos. Although GW2 cries out for a healer no such luck. I almost get angry at the Norn quest fighting the big shaman at the frozen lake. So many players dying. Yes I do battle rez as much as I can but that is no subsitute for keeping another player alive.
6) it is a numbers game in pvp - I don't know how to explain it but all I have seen of WvWvW is that the bigger side wins. I am not talking about 100 vs 50, I am talking about 2 and 3 versus 1. Of the three hours I was in WvWvW I think that I only saw 2 cases where one player was able to take on 2 enemy players and kill them through the downed state. Maybe I was on the wrong server but that is what I saw and I was un-impressed.
Most of my dislikes are contrary to the ANet philosophy and are painted as selling points by ANet. I respect that. I also like a lot of what I see in GW2. I will buy it (have bought it) but as for playing it long term - no, not for this noob.
If you play like that, mashing random abilities, it's normal you don't like the game, since you didn't even understand the basics of it... and you will die a lot too.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Most of your dislikes seem to come from a misunderstanding of the game mechanics, and also of being used to EQ/WoW clone model trinity based fights. You have to get rid of that mentality completely and start from scratch. The game is way easier to understand for veterans who have played games like Asheron's Call, I can understand it can be confusing for those who only played WoW clones.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Wow just wow. Stopped reading here because apparently someone wasn't paying attention to anything in the game or they never played the beta. Either way they missed out on the entire game. Have to wonder sometimes what's happening to people when they play something, are they really paying attention to the tooltips when playing a game or do they want the game to think for them? Do they want a game where they must learn their class or do they want to simply press buttons and let whatever happens be the right thing at the time? Just amazes me....
Where's the like button on this forum?
+1
Get ready now for the inevitable
"When someone expresses an opinion the fanboys attack them"
"can't say anything wrong about this game without getting attacked"
"they usually have valid points but they are attacked anyway"
or any combination of the above
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Ummm... i wouldnt put my bet on that. I did partial healings as Elementalist, yet i didnt find them weak at all. I wouldnt even start on what would be if i did fully dedicated myself to healing, because i dont want to do that in this game.
Are you sure you are doing everything right?
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Well, for one, i am ok with people like tordurbar (well, maybe except for the part against Anet philosophy, because its too general). However what i cant stand is "i dont like this game, so it will be greatest fail of all fails of all the time" mentallity people. I am yet to see one of them stating valid argument why will game fail, other than his personal opinion.
Same thing as being extreme 'fanboy' (oh i hate when i even have to use that word)...
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
how is disagreeing with someone "attacking"? Sure, there are haters and trolls for every game, but a lot of what I've read here are reasonable answers to both good and bad critiques of GW2.
I don't consider that post to be an "attack" in any way. But I don't consider "attacks" other posts on this thread either. Yet we get complaints, when somone is disagreeing with a poster, that they are attacking them and their personal opinions or something along those lines
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
You are right about getting quoted... I am not going to refute you, as you said it is your opinion... So we already know to take it with a grain of salt because there is no need for facts in an opinion...
But that being said, I have a few questions to clarify this...
1) The server lock. I assume you mean the fact that once you choose a server all of your characters are created on that server? Are you aware that you can "guest" and go to any server to PvE at any time? And that if you find a server you like better than yours you can re-home all of your characters to that server? The stated goal is to prevent people from server hopping to always go to whichever server is "the best" in terms of WvW. Can you provide an alternative solution that would provide the same goal? Do you agree with the goal?
2) What do you mean "box check"? Did you spend your time just running around doing hearts? If so, do you realise that hearts are not Dynamic Events? Did you take the time to listen to the NPCs around you? If you see an NPC running towards an outpost or a group of NPCs running towards a defensive point, do you ask yourself "hmmm, I wonder what is going on?" and follow, or do you say "Meh, nothing over their head, no point..."?
3-a) In structured PVP everyone is equalized. Can you tell me what the point would be of having people at different levels/gear in structured pvp?
3-b) In WvW everyone's HEALTH is ranked up to the equivalent they would have at 80, and their damage mitigation/etc is scaled. Their skills/unlocked traits/etc. are not changed. Can you tell me what the point would be of having people in WvW or even open world who's life is low enough that a lvl 80 could 1-hit kill them? How about 2-hits? 3?
4) You say you don't know much about it, which probably means you are against cash shops in general. To put it in perspective, as an example, they sell additional inventory space there. Now, you start with a 15 slot bag and 4 places to add additional bags. Through crafting or drops I've seen bags as large as 15 slot, 20 if you use a rune of holding on them... So that is potentially 95 inventory slots WITHOUT BUYING ANYTHING. Can someone who buys the extra bag slots hold more? sure... Is it game-breaking? no way. Not only that, but you can buy the cash-shop items with in-game currency, AND they have convenience features in the game that ameliorate the pain of inventory space(like being able to bank crafting mats from anywhere in the world). Other things are similar.
5) Loading screens between zones are so few and far between that its not even worth commenting on, imo. Each zone is huge and covers a huge bracket. If you want to go to a geographically distant area(equivalent of, say, going from city to city or continent to continent in WoW) you are going to need to zone, same way they did(remember the zeppelins with the loading screen?). Some games are better at hiding it, some are worse... but all games have zone borders.
6) If you don't like the way the game does it, what would you prefer? Just to be clear, you are talking about the way that the game scales you down to the max level of the region you are in(so in the 5-8 area you are set to lvl 8) so that all content remains challenging and rewarding, correct? Now just to clarify that we are on the same page in terms of what it means, you are scaled down to the level of the zone, but given experience and loot appropriate for your real level. What is your specific objection to this mechanic, and how would you prefer to handle it?
7) What do you mean by "open world PvP"? Do you mean being able to attack anyone in the PvE area, irregardless of level or what they are doing? Does this have anything to do with number 6? Do you dislike being leveled down to the level of the area because you would prefer to go to lower levels as a high level to attack people trying to PvE? If not, what exactly do you mean by "open world PvP" and how exactly would you implement it, and to what purpose?
8) Despite the fact that there are a huge number of skills and available builds for each class? And despite the fact that leveling to 80 will not give you enough points to get everything, you will still need to go and do skill challenges, etc? And that is just for builds. There is also your characters story line, etc. What kind of progression would you prefer? How can they improve it? Did you submit any suggestions during your beta time?
9) The price is the same(or even less) than most other games on the market at release(barring exceptions like TL2). There is no sub fee. What would you consider a reasonable price for games? Are there any games that you would accept at $50?
10) Were you doing structured PvP? WvW? How long did you play for in each? In WvW what activities did you do? In PvE what were you doing? see #2.
so saying things like this
"The combat system in gw2 is pretty bad.. its nothing more then smashing buttons.. you have no idea wtf is going on
Gw1 had an very good coordination teamplay.. since in gw2 everyone can do all the things @ the same time there is no teamplay involved..
FYI: there is not a single spell in gw2 which benefits one partymember in any sort of way.. like a cleansing a debuff or single heal a person.."
is such a well researched and well informed statement you know. yeah...you might wanna check your last statement there bub, when people say things that are completely false, yes that's when they'll get pounced on in these forums.
Here are two of my other favorite idiotic statements about the game....
Too much Hype.
Pay to Win cash shop.
Both of which are completely false as well.
The problem with GW2 is a simple one. It is a generational problem. You have two generations of players.
Generation Old and Generation New.
Generation Old (players 45+ of age)
Generation New (players 12-40+ of age)
Generation old, grew up playing mostly PC games, moe used to the old Trinity (Tank, DPS, Healer) slower reflexes, more planning, time invested in grinding to get better gears, work better as a group using ventrillo, mumble etc)
Generation new, grew up playing with Nintendo, game controllers, etc etc, quick reflexes, love changes and love GW2 style of game.
I am afraid GW2 was created to serve and cater the New Generation more than the old one. So for old people like me GW2 will be reach level 20 tops before shelving it and once every 6 months dust it off, play for 20-30 minutes and shelving it again for another 3-6 months.
The game is not bad for the contrary graphics, landscape are awesome, it is just not designed for older players.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
I agree with what you wrote and I really enjoy GW2 BWEs but lets admit it, the game is overhyped like its the second coming of Jesus.
That doesn't mean the game is bad, but Its one of the most hyped online games of the last few years mostly by its fans, albeit Anet isnt completely innocent.
According to the "standard" definition of older-newer it might be true. However if you split "generations" a bit differently, as in older: those who have been playing games for long, not being of older age, they will mostly like the ideas of GW2. It's the newer GAMING generation, those who grew up in a world full of conviniencies, like the exclamation marks, or the scripted encounters or the quest hubs that refuse to adapt or find change difficult. For example, the whole reason they implemented the Renown Heart system was because of people who came from WoW-like MMOs and couldn't comperhend doing something without being told to do it.
@itgrowls: I totally agree with you. I didn't post that because I thought The_Korrigan was attacking anyone. It's a fact that sooner or later on any post arguing about GW2 someone comes and says something along the lines I posted, trying to defend the opinion of some, but neglecting the "counter - opinion" of others. It's good to have lots of differing opinions, but word them like opinions, otherwise there will be counter-arguments to blatant lies
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
As a 45 year old man, I disagree with your assumptions.
In fact, your whole premise is wrong, imo. The players that will be shelving GW2 in a few months, will be the "spoiled crowd", because they cant seem to ever be satisfied. They blow right thru the content, then complain on the forums that there wasnt enough content, and flame anybody who disagrees.
Then they get to end game, and that of course is not enough either. They will demand things like, gear grinding or more levels, so they can feel like they "accomplished something", instead of just enjoying the game.
Age does not seem to be a factor for which crowd a player is in, imo.
I love how you set the "old generation" limit just before your own age at 45... I'm 43 and I lived the domestic computer revolutions of the 80s from start to end. But what a convenient way to dismiss the opinions of everyone who is younger than you, right?
I was in UO beta, I've played AC1 for years, but I was also playing computer RPGs and pen&paper RPGs before many here were still only concepts in their parent's brains or didn't leave the kid's beta test phase and didn't know what a RPG is. Yet I like GW2 a lot, and I can't wait to play it more with my final characters... my reflexes come from action games of the 80s (galaga, scramble, fort apocalypse, jet set willie, etc... I could spend a day listing them all and I wouldn't be done) and 90s (wolfenstein, doom, quake, etc...). I never owned a console.
So opinions are fine, but you should be old enough to know better than to make them generalizations
In fact, I notice that many people who are complaining about GW2's mechanic are that new generation who never played anything other than WoW clones... food for thoughts.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
As someone who turns 50 tomorrow and is an avid fan of GW2 I would like to dispute your suggestion that it's not the game for older gamers. I welcome change, it's not about stereotypes that say older people find change harder it's all about your attitude to change, regardless of age, being able to welcome and adjust to it. I have no doubt that it will be a game I can lose myself in for the long term.
I don't like change!
Uh...what?
I'm 34. You know the first MMO I played? Gemstone. That's OLD SCHOOL, son. Meridian 59, too. I also played EQ1 back in the day. The trinity didn't really exist in those games. It did a little in EQ, but we had plenty of "4 DPS play ping pong with the mob" groups work just fine. Slower? As a feign death monk puller, lemme tell you a thing or two about reflexes and timing. One second was the difference between pulling one mob safely for your group to kill, or wiping everyone. I won't argue with the grinding part, that was true...but vent? Man in my day we had party chat and that was IT. I WISH we had vent back then. woulda killed my dialup but man woulda made fights easier.
Oh, and I LOVE GW2. Because it was designed for older gamers in my mind.
Newer gamers are your WoW generation. Used to the game telling them where the next quest is, Used to be led along by the nose in a straight line for 85 levels, used to combat so dull and predictable you could get up in the middle of a raid boss, go to the bathroom, come back, and stll be alive (I did it in WoW. As a TANK.)
Oh and Nintendo and games relying on reflexes is something new? The NES is something close to 30 years old, you know...And my Atari 2600 was all about game controllers and twitching too.
LOL I am waaaay pass 45, lol, it is hard for me (I am a tipical tank player) toi figure out all these jump around, double tap to dodge when at the same time I am healing and attacking, my eye and hands coordination conflict with each other, lol now on the other hand if I could macro jump, heal, dodge, attack in one key I would be fine, but that is not the case.
I played the beta and between looking for the dodge key and the heal key and move and jump and attack, poof dead, I died so many times I ran out of money.
It is hard for old brains to get use to the new tank that is as fragile as a 4000 years old egyptian mummy, a tank that needs to run and dodge like a typical rogue and trying to figure out where the mob is at the same time. Those mobs move very fast, and they carry a powerful arsenal of spells and DPS casts
If the bar will allow the player to have more stuff on it, maybe 1-10 and another bar for other stuff maybe would not be that hard, but right now the UI bar is the same as GW1, you have very limited amount of skils to use at one particular time, you need to switch, change, change weapon all in one key, and on top of that a mob punching you like Mohamed Ali. The amount of damage is way too much, they need to nerf the amount of damage caused by the mobs per hit, not in total, but per hit. So the players can develop and use all the skills available to them..
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
Been an MMO player since '99 and I heart GW2.
Well, i don't agree that GW2 isn't for older mmo players (that's personall liking), and while i haven't played the older mmo, one thing i really don't like about this game (and most mmorpgs today aswell) is the extreme focus on combat related activities.