Like many others said, there is essentially raiding through and through the whole of the adventure, its just not locked to end game instances with specific loot pools required to progress. Check out this lvl 10 DE, there must be 40-50+ people present and near the end quite a few of them fall. Pretty dern impressive for such a low lvl event, and there are DEs like this everywhere.
I was never much on raiding, but when its open world like this where anyone can participate and it scales in difficulty as more people arrive or leave, I'm going to enjoy it very much!
I'm very glad that ANet have done away with the gear-grind-end-game-raiding...
Raiding is the single worste idea in the MMO genre to date. It is a blight that ultimately takes over games to be nothing more than raid farms. Having spent time in hardcore raiding guilds it has made me jaded towards any raiding endgame centric MMO. Sorry, but there is no redeaming value in scheduling your life around 5 - 7 nights a week spending hours running the same content over and over. Once the HC raiding guilds kit out thier inner circle they send their minions to demand "new" content with "better" gear. Ultimately this creates an elitist class of raiding player that thinks they know how YOU should play your character and even if you follow everything THEY demand it is still not good enough because THEY could do it infinitely better.
I've gotten my fair share of enjoyment out of raiding over the years, but I can absolutely point out the many cons to hardcore raid models, which include but are not limited to:
Angst that builds up over loot competition
Inevitable exclusion of some guild players who wish to raid
The time consumption of the demanding schedule necessary for competitive success
The fact that once at raiding level, all other PvE content becomes virtually obsolete, which severely limits the game's content
That said, in GW2, loot competition would never be an issue as everyone involved will be adequately rewarded just as in the dungeons. Nor would the rest of the game ever become obsolete due to the scaling backwards in lower level zones/dungeons/raids.
Imagine if, in WoW for example, all content was still fair game and frequently played, from Vanilla straight through the current expansion; if dungeons like UBRS, LBRS, Strat, Scholo and Dire Maul were still being run by all new players, and all veteran players were still joining them because it would be more than just a roflstomp zergfest trip down memory lane--it would still be challenging content that still offered relevant rewards. Imagine if the same were true for all the vanilla, BC and WotlK and early Cata raids. How massive the game would be! The amount of relevant content would exceed anything any MMO has ever put out.
While this is unmistakeably NOT the case for current WoW (or really any other MMO I can think of), this is the potential future GW2 has.
And this post has successfully diverged offtopic to the game's potential longevity...
Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.
In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.
In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.
Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
Loot drama
Player drama
Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.
In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.
In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.
Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
Loot drama
Player drama
Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
So... Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?
This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game. Views like that are ruining MMOs.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.
In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.
In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.
Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
Loot drama
Player drama
Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
So... Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?
This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game. Views like that are ruining MMOs.
No flames. But I will give an honest rebuttal.
Rather than use my examples, allow me to point out the specific parts of raiding that bother me.
Current design is horribly simple. There's not a single raid in any MMO currently out there I've played that is challenging in regards to mechanic. Numerically, yes. But that's mostly a gear check. The basic mechanics of "stay out of fire, attack from the sides/back, tank moves the bsos as needed, blah blah" are repeated ad nauseum.
Raid makeup is terribly inflexible. You need x healers, y dps, z tanks. You are beholden to raid makeup, and often have to sit around for hours trying to find someone to fill a certain slot. And god forbid if your guild's MT healer is sick.
25 people spend hours on content, and 1-2 people get any measurable reward.
Remember trash? Remember when manging to even GET to a boss was an achievement? Recent raids tend to be a string of boss encounters with little gameplay between them.
"Streamlined" class mechanics put most of the burden on healers/tanks; DPS have nearly no responsibility to keep themselves alive, manage aggro, or provide CC. All they do is sidestep out of the fire and spam their little roatation.
If you want to say this, I'll say it for you: I'm tired of raiding. It's boring, yet somehow manages to be stressful, and there's no payoff. It's a job, not a game. If I'm not having fun, why should I do it?
You give me challenging raid mechanics, where EVERYONE in the fight needs to stay on their feet and think, and everyone gets a reward commesurate with their performance, and I'll be happy to raid again.
If a raid gives the best loot and that loot is only really needed to raid harder content, then why do non-raiders care what loot drops in raids if it isn't something that they will need for the content they will experience. As long as the developers make content for everyone then why care?
Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.
In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.
In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.
Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
Loot drama
Player drama
Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
So... Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?
This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game. Views like that are ruining MMOs.
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.
In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.
In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.
Being passed up for raid slots because the guild leader wants his wife's idiot brother to come in.
Wiping for 20+ hours a week on the same fight, generally because of 1-2 complete idiots that refuse to get even simple mechanics.
Being told "This is a massive upgrade for you, but not really one for me. But I still want it and I have 2x the DKP you do, so don't bother" (Oh, and the guy vendored the item a week later.
Loot drama
Player drama
Having to wait 45 minutes because the main healer was busy arguing with his wife.
Being the only person alive in teh goddamn Heigan dance for 15 minutes (as a tank) before the sucker finally killed me.
Seeing that (as a tank) I'm beating 4 DPS in damage, and one of them bitches it's my fault we hit an enrage timer 6 times. Oh, and the POS needs on my gear and wins it. then bails.
In short; Raiding would be great, if it weren't for the raiders.
Well that, and the mechanics are so dumb stupid anymore..I have literally gotten up, made a snack, come back, and my character is still alive and holding aggro.
Good guilds dont have these things I'm talking US 500 and above type guilds. Top server guilds. I know everyone can't get in a good guild for whatever reason, but I just wanted to point out that a lot of people don't have these problems with raiding.
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
How are you being forced? If you don't want to raid don't raid. Just like if you don't want to pvp you don't have to pvp, or if you don't want to craft don't craft.
I don't see a problem with an MMO appling to different play styles, most of the old MMOs did but these new "mmos" with thier larger teams and budgets seem incapble of doing.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I happen to think that Arenanet just moved big raids into Large DE events as opposed to closed off instances.
My experience 'raiding' in GW2 was on the Shadow Behemoth. Now obviously it's not a sit down for 5 hours and strategise raid but what it does achieve is getting over 20 people together to fight a giant boss. Gw2 does this so naturally and seamlessly that I almost don't remember it being a raid. It's an open world raid if you will.
I understand that these are not traditional raids but if you really look at the core of what raiding is then GW2 has done it and gotten rid of nearly all the bad sides about raiding.
Goals achieved:
Lots of people
Big Boss in open world
Everybody gets loot
Feeling Epic.
Bad things that have been elimintated:
LFG
LF 1 Tank, 2 Heals 5/6 Heroic
Person A: I want that shield! Person B: I've been raiding for months, I DESERVE that shield! Person C: I won the Roll I win! Person Ninja and leave.
Hours and hours of waiting to have fun.
Spending months on the same boss because your group is too weak.
Being extremely angry at your guildies because they simply aren't geared or smart enough.
Goals not achieved / things I don't see happening:
Social aspect of raiding. I did enjoy getting to know a lot of people over time.
World Boss consequences. What happens when we DONT fight the behemoth off? Is that the end of the chain? Does not killing the behemoth result in more behemoths? Do towns get destroyed by the behemoth?
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
How are you being forced? If you don't want to raid don't raid. Just like if you don't want to pvp you don't have to pvp, or if you don't want to craft don't craft.
I don't see a problem with an MMO appling to different play styles, most of the old MMOs did but these new "mmos" with thier larger teams and budgets seem incapble of doing.
This! Why would you care? You don't need the "best" gear to do the parts of the game you want to experience. So how are you forced?
Why can't raiding be skilled based and have a minior gear climb?
There's the problem. Either the best gear comes from raiding, or else it doesn't. You're proposing that it should. People interested in GW2 tend not to be looking for a generic WoW-clone--and mandatory raiding is one of the major complaints about WoW-clones.
Has there ever been a raiding game where you didn't have to go raiding to get the best gear? My experience has been that raiders insist that raiding should give the best gear, and getting the best gear in the game is most of the point of raiding. Most won't explicitly admit that, but will implicitly admit it when they claim that raiding needs to give the best gear, as otherwise, no one would do it.
Thats not really true, it's not 100% about the gear in GW2 as they already stated. I see it as a place to get unique stats that aren't really powerful, but special.
Either you have to go raiding to get the stats you want, or else you don't. There is no middle ground.
If all you get from raiding is alternate armor skins, titles, and stuff like that, then I wouldn't have a problem with it in principle so long as there was an ironclad guarantee that they would never make raiding mandatory. But that ironclad guarantee is problematic.
Usually when a game makes content that people wouldn't do except for the loot, they throw in overpowered loot to get people to do it anyway. Even ArenaNet itself proved rather prone to this in Guild Wars 1. Remember Eye of the North?
Raiding is so awful that game designers usually have to throw in game-breakingly overpowered loot to get people to do it. If they offer raiding that doesn't give such loot, then basically no one will do it, as raiders will go to other games that cater more to their preferences. Putting a bunch of effort into creating content that hardly anyone will ever do is a waste of time, and those resources could be better spent elsewhere.
What are you basing this on?
You are using a very broad brush to paint a group of people that you do not want to be associated with. I am sure you ahve no facts to support your claims and are stating your opinions as fact.
You do not know why everyone does anything and it is unlikely that the group of people in question--people who raid--all do it for the same reason.
You don't like the game design of raiding, that is obviousl Your post is dripping with bias.
Every game has a carrot on a stick. Some are just more easily identifiable.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
Honestly most people would not perticipate in raiding without gaining some kind of superior gear. I won't to be able get best gear from several aspects of the game, crafting dungeons, PvP etc. I do not wont to be forced into any one part of the game. I din't want gear grind!
I think GW2 cant have raids in PvE only because it doesnt have Trinity. Raids = atleast 20 ppl in it. IF no tank presented = Boss cant hit hard any1 = you cant lose even if 1-5 ppl will die other 15 will move/kite bos away and just res ppl and continue. And fight will be just heavy moving around to avoid any attacks which will be booring as no meleee ppl will be able to play Or Boss will be easy hitter so melee can survive and it will be just as booring also.
ALL GW2 idea doesnt fit in Raiding. Its for small groups heavy coordination not for raids as if in 5 ppl if you dont move out of "aoe" you will die and 1-2 players will die after as they cant "tank" boss and revive also.
And second thing as you will not get any Better gear from Instances and "raids" ppl will just skip for most part it anyway. and it will be content for 5% of players or less So its not a priority to waste resourses developing it. Maybe some day not now
I've been thinking. As we get closer to the launch of GW2, I can't help at wonder why they cant' add in raiding to the game.
As I see it, raiding isn't a feature that locks players into grinding, a horrible treadmill up a pointless latter, it was the companies that chose and implimented features that made it seem bad. For example, most raiding requires the trinity because they designed the treadmill around it and thus was able to create longevity in their game and bottlenecked players into the horrible gear grind. Some liked it, primarily those who were part of a guild dedicated enough to complete those task. But games that are progressive like GW2, I don't see why raids wouldn't be successful in it. With pass games, the raiding content was scalled based on gear level and being competent to a certain degree. Why can't raiding be skilled based and have a minior gear climb? I love the thought of progression, I actually like raiding, I just didn't like the fact that I could do a raid for 2 hours and get shafted out of loot for several reasons, or if I'm not in a dedicated guild get a raid spot or the stupid gold runs that make things even worse.
So my question is, is raiding really bad, or is it's linear presentation giving it a bad rep? I think raiding can be done very well, especially in GW2 seeing how well they handle dynamic events. I wouldn't really mind having a 10-15 player group of friends without depending on certain classes or roles given the right environment and tools for us to feel accomplished and the sense of structed progression. Ofcourse the gear climb is always a problem, but it's always how the content was distributed I feel that made it seem pointless, frustraiting due to the trinity, or business model presented. Just a thought.
What you don't seem to understand is that raiding was a LIMITATION. Guild Wars 2 sets to break the limitions and oppression of group raids with their Dynamic Events system. For example, the Dyanmic Event of the giant forest Grubb in the Eternal Battlegrounds near the ruins. Some would say that these are "world raids" because the vast amount of people needed.
So Yes and No, Guild Wars 2 has raids in a cerain aspect. The simple fact are as follows:
1) Player participation isn't limited artificially.
2) Anyone can join.
3) Everyone is awarded based on their participation.
I've been thinking. As we get closer to the launch of GW2, I can't help at wonder why they cant' add in raiding to the game.
As I see it, raiding isn't a feature that locks players into grinding, a horrible treadmill up a pointless latter, it was the companies that chose and implimented features that made it seem bad. For example, most raiding requires the trinity because they designed the treadmill around it and thus was able to create longevity in their game and bottlenecked players into the horrible gear grind. Some liked it, primarily those who were part of a guild dedicated enough to complete those task. But games that are progressive like GW2, I don't see why raids wouldn't be successful in it. With pass games, the raiding content was scalled based on gear level and being competent to a certain degree. Why can't raiding be skilled based and have a minior gear climb? I love the thought of progression, I actually like raiding, I just didn't like the fact that I could do a raid for 2 hours and get shafted out of loot for several reasons, or if I'm not in a dedicated guild get a raid spot or the stupid gold runs that make things even worse.
So my question is, is raiding really bad, or is it's linear presentation giving it a bad rep? I think raiding can be done very well, especially in GW2 seeing how well they handle dynamic events. I wouldn't really mind having a 10-15 player group of friends without depending on certain classes or roles given the right environment and tools for us to feel accomplished and the sense of structed progression. Ofcourse the gear climb is always a problem, but it's always how the content was distributed I feel that made it seem pointless, frustraiting due to the trinity, or business model presented. Just a thought.
What you don't seem to understand is that raiding was a LIMITATION. Guild Wars 2 sets to break the limitions and oppression of group raids with their Dynamic Events system. For example, the Dyanmic Event of the giant forest Grubb in the Eternal Battlegrounds near the ruins. Some would say that these are "world raids" because the vast amount of people needed.
So Yes and No, Guild Wars 2 has raids in a cerain aspect. The simple fact are as follows:
1) Player participation isn't limited artificially.
2) Anyone can join.
3) Everyone is awarded based on their participation.
Ya, old 20-40 man raids can just die in a fire....long live GW2's world raids.
That new mentality is why I'm really looking forward to GW2. I love how effortless it is to participate in events and large boss fights. Just run up and start swinging. No one is going to get mad at you for mob stealing, etc. I've been playing TSW lately and one thing I miss about GW2 is the fact that I have to fight others for spawns. It feels so restrictive and just plain anti-social compared to GW2.
I'm almost positive that they'll be adding some manner of larger scale dungeon content in future expansions, and that they're sticking with 5-man dungeons in the initial release because they want to give us a variety of that one dungeon experience and for every single one to be a beautifully polished experience. Also 5-man teams are set as the default in both pvP and PvE, so it makes sense that the dungeons are 5 man as well.
20-100 man events are the dynamic event content (specifically the big boss events). Dungeons are, for now, about more coordinated group efforts, where everyone has to pull their own weight.
Raiding isnt that bad, espescially in a game like GW2 without any real gear grind it would actually be fun, I can only think of one downside from a raid, its harder to find 10 or 20 people then it is to find 5 people.
However i would not despair if i was a fan of Mass PvE raids... I personally think that some of the endgame dynamic event chains will become much like the raids i remember from EQ. When people just zerg gthtem they will not work, it will need coordination to overcome these big bosses and leaders will need to stand up to make sure of a victory.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
1+
Raiding pugs is literally a pain...
Like many others said, there is essentially raiding through and through the whole of the adventure, its just not locked to end game instances with specific loot pools required to progress. Check out this lvl 10 DE, there must be 40-50+ people present and near the end quite a few of them fall. Pretty dern impressive for such a low lvl event, and there are DEs like this everywhere.
I was never much on raiding, but when its open world like this where anyone can participate and it scales in difficulty as more people arrive or leave, I'm going to enjoy it very much!
I'm very glad that ANet have done away with the gear-grind-end-game-raiding...
I've gotten my fair share of enjoyment out of raiding over the years, but I can absolutely point out the many cons to hardcore raid models, which include but are not limited to:
Good post nonetheless.
Like this many things, the spirit of raiding is fantastic. The execution is highly flawed.
In spirit, raiding is about you and a massive group of people fighting an arduous, horribly challenging battle against overwhelming odds and being rewarded in kind.
In practice, raiding here's some of the things I've had to endure that make me hate the current iteration of raiding in most MMOs.
Exploration mode dungeons are your raids. They will also offer the best gear and most casuals can't or wont want to do them either.
So... Raiding sucks because you couldn't find a good guild and/or weren't willing deal with the fact that those poeple are in deed real people?
This will get me flamed but 90% of the complaints I have ever read about raiding is either I don't want to do it or I can't do it so it shouldn't be in the game. Views like that are ruining MMOs.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Raiding is fine. But it doesn't have to be in every game.
No flames. But I will give an honest rebuttal.
Rather than use my examples, allow me to point out the specific parts of raiding that bother me.
If a raid gives the best loot and that loot is only really needed to raid harder content, then why do non-raiders care what loot drops in raids if it isn't something that they will need for the content they will experience. As long as the developers make content for everyone then why care?
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
Good guilds dont have these things I'm talking US 500 and above type guilds. Top server guilds. I know everyone can't get in a good guild for whatever reason, but I just wanted to point out that a lot of people don't have these problems with raiding.
edit - except for the wiping part
How are you being forced? If you don't want to raid don't raid. Just like if you don't want to pvp you don't have to pvp, or if you don't want to craft don't craft.
I don't see a problem with an MMO appling to different play styles, most of the old MMOs did but these new "mmos" with thier larger teams and budgets seem incapble of doing.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I happen to think that Arenanet just moved big raids into Large DE events as opposed to closed off instances.
My experience 'raiding' in GW2 was on the Shadow Behemoth. Now obviously it's not a sit down for 5 hours and strategise raid but what it does achieve is getting over 20 people together to fight a giant boss. Gw2 does this so naturally and seamlessly that I almost don't remember it being a raid. It's an open world raid if you will.
I understand that these are not traditional raids but if you really look at the core of what raiding is then GW2 has done it and gotten rid of nearly all the bad sides about raiding.
Bad things that have been elimintated:
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
This! Why would you care? You don't need the "best" gear to do the parts of the game you want to experience. So how are you forced?
What are you basing this on?
You are using a very broad brush to paint a group of people that you do not want to be associated with. I am sure you ahve no facts to support your claims and are stating your opinions as fact.
You do not know why everyone does anything and it is unlikely that the group of people in question--people who raid--all do it for the same reason.
You don't like the game design of raiding, that is obviousl Your post is dripping with bias.
Every game has a carrot on a stick. Some are just more easily identifiable.
--John Ruskin
I think GW2 cant have raids in PvE only because it doesnt have Trinity. Raids = atleast 20 ppl in it. IF no tank presented = Boss cant hit hard any1 = you cant lose even if 1-5 ppl will die other 15 will move/kite bos away and just res ppl and continue. And fight will be just heavy moving around to avoid any attacks which will be booring as no meleee ppl will be able to play Or Boss will be easy hitter so melee can survive and it will be just as booring also.
ALL GW2 idea doesnt fit in Raiding. Its for small groups heavy coordination not for raids as if in 5 ppl if you dont move out of "aoe" you will die and 1-2 players will die after as they cant "tank" boss and revive also.
And second thing as you will not get any Better gear from Instances and "raids" ppl will just skip for most part it anyway. and it will be content for 5% of players or less So its not a priority to waste resourses developing it. Maybe some day
not now 
No it is not but I need something more than just raiding for the best gear.
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What you don't seem to understand is that raiding was a LIMITATION. Guild Wars 2 sets to break the limitions and oppression of group raids with their Dynamic Events system. For example, the Dyanmic Event of the giant forest Grubb in the Eternal Battlegrounds near the ruins. Some would say that these are "world raids" because the vast amount of people needed.
So Yes and No, Guild Wars 2 has raids in a cerain aspect. The simple fact are as follows:
1) Player participation isn't limited artificially.
2) Anyone can join.
3) Everyone is awarded based on their participation.
4) No obnoxious 'trinity' needed.
5) They actually play part of the world.
Here's an example of a Guild War's 2 raid: http://www.gamespot.com/guild-wars-2/videos/guild-wars-2-demo-tequatl-6330321/ (start at 3:00 on). "Scales up to 100 players"
Ya, old 20-40 man raids can just die in a fire....long live GW2's world raids.
That new mentality is why I'm really looking forward to GW2. I love how effortless it is to participate in events and large boss fights. Just run up and start swinging. No one is going to get mad at you for mob stealing, etc. I've been playing TSW lately and one thing I miss about GW2 is the fact that I have to fight others for spawns. It feels so restrictive and just plain anti-social compared to GW2.
Can't wait for this game.
I'm almost positive that they'll be adding some manner of larger scale dungeon content in future expansions, and that they're sticking with 5-man dungeons in the initial release because they want to give us a variety of that one dungeon experience and for every single one to be a beautifully polished experience. Also 5-man teams are set as the default in both pvP and PvE, so it makes sense that the dungeons are 5 man as well.
20-100 man events are the dynamic event content (specifically the big boss events). Dungeons are, for now, about more coordinated group efforts, where everyone has to pull their own weight.
Where is the poll????? All I need is a "Yes" to vote for.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
Raiding isnt that bad, espescially in a game like GW2 without any real gear grind it would actually be fun, I can only think of one downside from a raid, its harder to find 10 or 20 people then it is to find 5 people.
However i would not despair if i was a fan of Mass PvE raids... I personally think that some of the endgame dynamic event chains will become much like the raids i remember from EQ. When people just zerg gthtem they will not work, it will need coordination to overcome these big bosses and leaders will need to stand up to make sure of a victory.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)