yes raiding is that bad. It shouldn't be that bad, because the actual challenge is fun and interesting, but the people tend to ruin raiding. From elitists to afk'rs to the pricks that just join raids to make the group wipe. They are the reason that raids suck. So I'm glad that we don't have raids for GW2. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Raid is not bad, actually is pretty much a must if you wanna make a MMO. GW2 do not have raids because is a casual MMO, people still dont wanna believe that.
Raid is not bad, actually is pretty much a must if you wanna make a MMO. GW2 do not have raids because is a casual MMO, people still dont wanna believe that.
That's a good fact to know , I appreciate your insight into what makes a casual MMO, I've always wondered why I liked games like DAoC ,Shadowbane and now GW2 , but with this revelation I now understand it's being casual that attracts my attention .
It seems to me that the "raiding" is already built into the game. You have the events in the game that can either scale, or in some cases require, larger groups of people. I'm sure you and your guildies could easily find appealing events that you can do over and over if that's what you want. Personally, I'm not into that sort of thing, which is why I'm glad GW2 doesn't have traditional raiding.
There are also the dungeons. Yes, they are only 5-man raids, but coupled with the DE's, they may be able to quench your raidthirst.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
It seems to me that the "raiding" is already built into the game. You have the events in the game that can either scale, or in some cases require, larger groups of people. I'm sure you and your guildies could easily find appealing events that you can do over and over if that's what you want. Personally, I'm not into that sort of thing, which is why I'm glad GW2 doesn't have traditional raiding.
There are also the dungeons. Yes, they are only 5-man raids, but coupled with the DE's, they may be able to quench your raidthirst.
It's actually a really good thing you brought this up.
While I do hope that Anet improves the guild features in this game (they definitely need to before launch), I also anticipate a lot of guilds doing these sorts of things once the game launches. At the end of the day, guilds are still a group of people that want to play together. There are actually quite a few large events scattered around the world. I think I found at least one in each zone so far.
With the amount of these large events that are present, as well as how well they are distributed around the world, I can definitely see guilds grouping up to tackle specific encounters. These also drop loot, so it could also be reinforced by people wanted to get specific skins from certain bosses, which is a raid-like mentallity.
It'll be different for sure, but not quite as different as some people are making it out to be.
Want a real raid? Grab your guild and go take stonemist castle.
Oh wait, you want a PvE raid, right. Then go hit Shadow Behemoth (or one of the other massive DE bosses that will surely be all over).
I guess it's a matter of what really defines a "raid" for you. If it has to be inside an instance, full of trash mobs, with over 10 people but not more than one guild/squad/group/whatever then you won't find what you want in GW2. If you just want something hard to do, that requires a team, there will be more options for you than any raid based MMO.
The explorable mode on dungeons looks about right for groups who enjoy raids, but without the need to repeat it ad naseum for good enough gear to go into the next dungeon. For larger groups there are epic DEs all over the world and plenty to do in WvW.
WoW style raids aren't as popular as some people like to think. It's often inconvienient or impossible to get 20+ people together with the right class balance and gear at the same time. The actual organization of a raid seems harder than most of the content, and takes longer too (unless you are in a top guild, maybe).
I played PWI for years, been in the top territory war guild for most of that time, was an officer in charge of PvE events for a while. When they introduced content for up to 100 people at a time I was excited. At first it was pretty easy to get 30+ people to go at any one time. After the novelty wore off and the most driven few got their gear it became a chore to even get the 15-20 minimum required for a run. I gave up after like a hundred hours of standing around spamming guild chat for that last cleric or tank or aoe DD. It doesn't help that they made the gear from that instance niche at best, better/similar gear is also farmed through 6 man dungeons that can be spammed (and some solo/duoed with broken op gear). I'd estimate 10-20% of MMO players are interested in large-group raid style content on more than just a casual basis. It's pretty likely GW2 will gain at least as many players who are specifically interested in the lack of gear treadmill than it will lose due to lack of WoW style raids.
ArenaNet wants everyone to be able to enjoy all the content. Dungeons, being the only content that enforces grouping, require only a small team and are relatively easy in story mode because of this.
Also, regardless of whether raiding is good or bad, if it could be done or not: Why exactly does GW2 need to have raids?
Some games have ffa PvP everywhere, some don't. Some offer more structured PvP where you join a group first and fight against other groups (or 1vs1, but a arena situation, not in the world). Some games are instanced, some are not. Some use voice over, some don't. And so on.
Why exactly should Guild Wars 2, or any game, have raids?
If a game has raids - good for the ones who like it. If not - either just stay away from it, or try it to find out whether you like it even without.
There is nothing special about raids when looking at it this way. It's a feature, not every game has the same features.
If you can conceive a convincing way of how to introduce raids into Guild Wars 2 that fit the game as it is, instead of changing the game until it fits raids, then tell it ArenaNet. Oh, of utmost important is obviously that people actually play it. Whether it's "the" raiders or someone else, creating content no one will ever see (i think, ArenaNet actually said it like this once when talking about raids) is pointless, so make sure as many people as possible will enjoy it.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
yes raiding is that bad. It shouldn't be that bad, because the actual challenge is fun and interesting, but the people tend to ruin raiding. From elitists to afk'rs to the pricks that just join raids to make the group wipe. They are the reason that raids suck. So I'm glad that we don't have raids for GW2. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
I completely agree.
Right now I play Tera. Since my pve character is at cap, the next bit is raiding for gear. I'd love to do it but just can't get myself to raid with people who are just horrible. And it's a mixed bag. Some good people and then these people who just ruin the experience.
Once the majoirty of my guild gets over to the new server I'm going to have to help arrange some group guild things.
Otherwise I'd just pass.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It seems to me that the "raiding" is already built into the game. You have the events in the game that can either scale, or in some cases require, larger groups of people. I'm sure you and your guildies could easily find appealing events that you can do over and over if that's what you want. Personally, I'm not into that sort of thing, which is why I'm glad GW2 doesn't have traditional raiding.
There are also the dungeons. Yes, they are only 5-man raids, but coupled with the DE's, they may be able to quench your raidthirst.
It's actually a really good thing you brought this up.
While I do hope that Anet improves the guild features in this game (they definitely need to before launch), I also anticipate a lot of guilds doing these sorts of things once the game launches. At the end of the day, guilds are still a group of people that want to play together. There are actually quite a few large events scattered around the world. I think I found at least one in each zone so far.
With the amount of these large events that are present, as well as how well they are distributed around the world, I can definitely see guilds grouping up to tackle specific encounters. These also drop loot, so it could also be reinforced by people wanted to get specific skins from certain bosses, which is a raid-like mentallity.
It'll be different for sure, but not quite as different as some people are making it out to be.
Yep, that's the way I see it as well. These mega-events can be used as raids if people want to organize to do specific ones. Or, they can spontaneously group with a bunch of other people if they want to do that content.
The only issue I see is if a certain group wants to do a certain boss/event and *gasp* other people are there to help out. Then it's not quite the exclusive feel that raids in other games have.
Personally, I prefer the way Anet is doing it.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Raiding is the single worste idea in the MMO genre to date. It is a blight that ultimately takes over games to be nothing more than raid farms. Having spent time in hardcore raiding guilds it has made me jaded towards any raiding endgame centric MMO. Sorry, but there is no redeaming value in scheduling your life around 5 - 7 nights a week spending hours running the same content over and over. Once the HC raiding guilds kit out thier inner circle they send their minions to demand "new" content with "better" gear. Ultimately this creates an elitist class of raiding player that thinks they know how YOU should play your character and even if you follow everything THEY demand it is still not good enough because THEY could do it infinitely better.
I've gotten my fair share of enjoyment out of raiding over the years, but I can absolutely point out the many cons to hardcore raid models, which include but are not limited to:
Angst that builds up over loot competition
Inevitable exclusion of some guild players who wish to raid
The time consumption of the demanding schedule necessary for competitive success
The fact that once at raiding level, all other PvE content becomes virtually obsolete, which severely limits the game's content
That said, in GW2, loot competition would never be an issue as everyone involved will be adequately rewarded just as in the dungeons. Nor would the rest of the game ever become obsolete due to the scaling backwards in lower level zones/dungeons/raids.
Imagine if, in WoW for example, all content was still fair game and frequently played, from Vanilla straight through the current expansion; if dungeons like UBRS, LBRS, Strat, Scholo and Dire Maul were still being run by all new players, and all veteran players were still joining them because it would be more than just a roflstomp zergfest trip down memory lane--it would still be challenging content that still offered relevant rewards. Imagine if the same were true for all the vanilla, BC and WotlK and early Cata raids. How massive the game would be! The amount of relevant content would exceed anything any MMO has ever put out.
While this is unmistakeably NOT the case for current WoW (or really any other MMO I can think of), this is the potential future GW2 has.
And this post has successfully diverged offtopic to the game's potential longevity...
Well said - this is what the detractors don't seem to grasp and they look pretty silly for not doing so.
There IS 'raiding' in GW2 - it just isn't exclusive and a focus for leet and all the crapola that comes with leet. I have raided with excelelnt guilds in WoW and AoC to top level bosses and gear top to bottom. I don't have any interest in going back to that format because it becomes a chore - and of course I don't want to embarrass myself boasting about my gear.... it's childish.
I would bet real money that the big, high level DE world bosses are going to be damn difficult to take down and guilds are going to have to organise themselves along raid lines - the difference is, the other people comng along will assist - and they won't be excluded, nor a problem for the guild core of the people fighting.
Oh yeah - and everyone will get rewards as well - no awful dkp and arguements over precedence, seniority, 'accidental' ninjas or other rubbish.
Additionally, there AREN'T going to be wide swathes of the gameworld empty of players where it isn't going to be worth going. So no more playing the game 4 times a week JUST to raid then logging off at the entrance until the next repetition.
WIN WIN scenario - I just don't see the reason for complaint here.
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
The fact is that a great amount of people hated the current questing systems too. Or the class setups based around trinity. Or gear progresion at the end game.
My point is that people hate the Raids as presented in the games we have now. Anet made many classic MMO features appealing again by breaking the mold. Now if they were to add instanced Raids to their game dont you think that they would try to make them appealing as they did with other mechanics?
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
The fact is that a great amount of people hated the current questing systems too. Or the class setups based around trinity. Or gear progresion at the end game.
My point is that people hate the Raids as presented in the games we have now. Anet made many classic MMO features appealing again by breaking the mold. Now if they were to add instanced Raids to their game dont you think that they would try to make them appealing as they did with other mechanics?
Again, one of the appeals of GW2 is player independence - content requiring guilds to play is a no go.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
The fact is that a great amount of people hated the current questing systems too. Or the class setups based around trinity. Or gear progresion at the end game.
My point is that people hate the Raids as presented in the games we have now. Anet made many classic MMO features appealing again by breaking the mold. Now if they were to add instanced Raids to their game dont you think that they would try to make them appealing as they did with other mechanics?
Again, one of the appeals of GW2 is player independence - content requiring guilds to play is a no go.
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
The fact is that a great amount of people hated the current questing systems too. Or the class setups based around trinity. Or gear progresion at the end game.
My point is that people hate the Raids as presented in the games we have now. Anet made many classic MMO features appealing again by breaking the mold. Now if they were to add instanced Raids to their game dont you think that they would try to make them appealing as they did with other mechanics?
Again, one of the appeals of GW2 is player independence - content requiring guilds to play is a no go.
Yeah, player independence. Oh wait, what about dungeons, dynamic events? Where is the independence there? If you don't have a group all that "independence" isn't going to help you overcome those. Please don't post nonsense and pretend you know what you're talking about, cause you don't.
As far as raids go, it seeme 99% of the people posting here have only raided in WoW and haven't experienced other games raiding. A raid doesn't have to be a full dungeon long gauntlet. I think the future of raiding is a single boss encounter with some trash pulls to see if your group comp is up to par with the fight.
To the people saying Dynamic Events will be the raiding of GW2, no, it won't. A DE will never truly be difficult. The way the game is designed it allows for a lot of mistakes to happen, and even then you can still win easily.
The fact is 95% of folks just don't want to raid ....and being forced to raid to get the best gear just sucks ,there are many games that are built around raiding ,Gw2 just isn't one of them ...it's simple solution move on
The fact is that a great amount of people hated the current questing systems too. Or the class setups based around trinity. Or gear progresion at the end game.
My point is that people hate the Raids as presented in the games we have now. Anet made many classic MMO features appealing again by breaking the mold. Now if they were to add instanced Raids to their game dont you think that they would try to make them appealing as they did with other mechanics?
Again, one of the appeals of GW2 is player independence - content requiring guilds to play is a no go.
Which is funny for a game called Guild Wars...
Its called guild wars because of Lore. Not as a reference to what players do in the game.
You can educate yourself as to the lore behind GW through these videos if you are interested:
The thing is that guilds in Guild Wars fill the role of what you would call in other games factions, houses, military organizations,criminal organizations, commercial organizations, etc.
The game itself started after the most recent war between guilds of the three human kingdoms.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I have seen plenty equate raiding with this games events & truthfully that's a lousy comparison in my opinion.
Raiding has been developing & evolving in many games to the point where it requires a high degree of coordination, control, knowledge, tactics & timing.
GW2 events are essentially a disorganised rabble zerging down a big baddie, a world apart from what I would term raiding, GW2 events are essentially the exact opposite of an organised raid & I can see why raiding would be missed in GW2 - but it's a design choice that they made, GW2 isn't trying to be "yet another raiding gear-grinder" though those who see raiding as being "all about gear" are somewhat narrow-minded. It's about teamwork primarily, the gear just helps get the raid beat the events.
I'll still be playing GW2 but I'll get my "Raiding fix" elsewhere, GW2 will just be a "lightweight" entertainment to me, something to do as a side game, it wont ever be a main game to me without a serious raiding game because raiding is something I really enjoy.
Yeah, player independence. Oh wait, what about dungeons, dynamic events? Where is the independence there? If you don't have a group all that "independence" isn't going to help you overcome those. Please don't post nonsense and pretend you know what you're talking about, cause you don't.
As far as raids go, it seeme 99% of the people posting here have only raided in WoW and haven't experienced other games raiding. A raid doesn't have to be a full dungeon long gauntlet. I think the future of raiding is a single boss encounter with some trash pulls to see if your group comp is up to par with the fight.
To the people saying Dynamic Events will be the raiding of GW2, no, it won't. A DE will never truly be difficult. The way the game is designed it allows for a lot of mistakes to happen, and even then you can still win easily.
Dungeons is 5 people groups - hardly a hassle once you don't require specific classes.
DE you show up - you are free to come and go.
WvW - like wise.
If a system where grouping is as easy and painless as it can be doesn't give you freedom...
And raids are designed for one to solve the puzzle, and once the puzzle is solved it is auto-win.u
Anyway, what elite DE did you experienced to base your opinion?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I have seen plenty equate raiding with this games events & truthfully that's a lousy comparison in my opinion.
Raiding has been developing & evolving in many games to the point where it requires a high degree of coordination, control, knowledge, tactics & timing.
GW2 events are essentially a disorganised rabble zerging down a big baddie, a world apart from what I would term raiding, GW2 events are essentially the exact opposite of an organised raid & I can see why raiding would be missed in GW2 - but it's a design choice that they made, GW2 isn't trying to be "yet another raiding gear-grinder" though those who see raiding as being "all about gear" are somewhat narrow-minded. It's about teamwork primarily, the gear just helps get the raid beat the events.
I'll still be playing GW2 but I'll get my "Raiding fix" elsewhere, GW2 will just be a "lightweight" entertainment to me, something to do as a side game, it wont ever be a main game to me without a serious raiding game because raiding is something I really enjoy.
Another one that have already experienced loads of elite DE.
I wonder why I saw cannons, adds, walls, and other mechanics in some of the higher lvl Meta Events.
But I guess people still think playing your character and taking advantage of the others around you and the opportunities they create in not organized since it isn't a dance. Just because one guy is taking damage, while another heals him and the rest are spamming damage, doesn't make it any more teamwork than people taking their own tactical decisions, just a different type of teamwork.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Look, those that are looking for a game centralized around 20-40+ player, organized groups. Look elsewhere.
But to say that GW2 does not have content of the same difficulty, complexity, or tactical challenge of a raid is just bs. I have seen all of the same mechanics I've seen in raids be present in this game, in some fashion or another. The key difference is that, for the vast majority of raids, once you have the mechanics down, the challenge tends to dissolve very quickly. Even from the more interesting raid fights, the combat tends to always boil down to the lowest common denominator, and then the next raid comes out.
In GW2, the combat is indeed a lot more chaotic. However that doesn't mean it's less challenging. Imho, it actually means the opposite. Players are required to make tactical decisions on the fly, something you don't generally do much of in raids. The traditional raids are all about figuring out the mechanics you didn't see going into the fight, and then designation people to deal w/ them for the next run(s).
That said, there have already been guilds who run events like they would a raid. Hell, just check out the battle of dreaming bay to see a large, organized guild run. Yes, that is in WvW, but you can clearly see the organization, the on-the-fly tactical thinking, and how their decisions most definitely matter.
Anyone who has played the later / more elaborate events in the game will also know that this type of play very easily translates into PvE as well. There are a lot of dungeons that require coordination, both with traps, mobs, switches, puzzles, and handling special mechanics different bosses have. Then you have meta events, which are more elaborate than 99% of raid bosses I've fought. Most raid bosses seem flat out boring after playing in a meta event. There's always a lot going on, and I have yet to see a meta event which is just tank & spank the boss, while sometimes dodging something or another.
Look, those that are looking for a game centralized around 20-40+ player, organized groups. Look elsewhere.
But to say that GW2 does not have content of the same difficulty, complexity, or tactical challenge of a raid is just bs. I have seen all of the same mechanics I've seen in raids be present in this game, in some fashion or another. The key difference is that, for the vast majority of raids, once you have the mechanics down, the challenge tends to dissolve very quickly. Even from the more interesting raid fights, the combat tends to always boil down to the lowest common denominator, and then the next raid comes out.
In GW2, the combat is indeed a lot more chaotic. However that doesn't mean it's less challenging. Imho, it actually means the opposite. Players are required to make tactical decisions on the fly, something you don't generally do much of in raids. The traditional raids are all about figuring out the mechanics you didn't see going into the fight, and then designation people to deal w/ them for the next run(s).
That said, there have already been guilds who run events like they would a raid. Hell, just check out the battle of dreaming bay to see a large, organized guild run. Yes, that is in WvW, but you can clearly see the organization, the on-the-fly tactical thinking, and how their decisions most definitely matter.
Anyone who has played the later / more elaborate events in the game will also know that this type of play very easily translates into PvE as well. There are a lot of dungeons that require coordination, both with traps, mobs, switches, puzzles, and handling special mechanics different bosses have. Then you have meta events, which are more elaborate than 99% of raid bosses I've fought. Most raid bosses seem flat out boring after playing in a meta event. There's always a lot going on, and I have yet to see a meta event which is just tank & spank the boss, while sometimes dodging something or another.
It is quite obvious that you haven't raided in other games very much.
While these videos are interesting, I've played GW1 and know a few things about it.
GW1 was all about Guild pride! I dont see the same thing happening in GW2 and thats one of the few things I dislike about it.
I'm not so sure about it.
With WvW providing benefits for all your realm, with guilds being able to cap structures in WvW, I think we will have a mixture of Guild and Server pride.
Not only that, while capes seem absent (shame, I liked capes) you will be able to costumize weapons and armors with your guild symbols and there is always sPvP torunaments.
Why do you think it will disapear? option to join multiple guilds? No GvG? Lack of HoH victory broadcast?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Comments
yes raiding is that bad. It shouldn't be that bad, because the actual challenge is fun and interesting, but the people tend to ruin raiding. From elitists to afk'rs to the pricks that just join raids to make the group wipe. They are the reason that raids suck. So I'm glad that we don't have raids for GW2. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Raid is not bad, actually is pretty much a must if you wanna make a MMO. GW2 do not have raids because is a casual MMO, people still dont wanna believe that.
That's a good fact to know , I appreciate your insight into what makes a casual MMO, I've always wondered why I liked games like DAoC ,Shadowbane and now GW2 , but with this revelation I now understand it's being casual that attracts my attention .
It seems to me that the "raiding" is already built into the game. You have the events in the game that can either scale, or in some cases require, larger groups of people. I'm sure you and your guildies could easily find appealing events that you can do over and over if that's what you want. Personally, I'm not into that sort of thing, which is why I'm glad GW2 doesn't have traditional raiding.
There are also the dungeons. Yes, they are only 5-man raids, but coupled with the DE's, they may be able to quench your raidthirst.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
It's actually a really good thing you brought this up.
While I do hope that Anet improves the guild features in this game (they definitely need to before launch), I also anticipate a lot of guilds doing these sorts of things once the game launches. At the end of the day, guilds are still a group of people that want to play together. There are actually quite a few large events scattered around the world. I think I found at least one in each zone so far.
With the amount of these large events that are present, as well as how well they are distributed around the world, I can definitely see guilds grouping up to tackle specific encounters. These also drop loot, so it could also be reinforced by people wanted to get specific skins from certain bosses, which is a raid-like mentallity.
It'll be different for sure, but not quite as different as some people are making it out to be.
Want a real raid? Grab your guild and go take stonemist castle.
Oh wait, you want a PvE raid, right. Then go hit Shadow Behemoth (or one of the other massive DE bosses that will surely be all over).
I guess it's a matter of what really defines a "raid" for you. If it has to be inside an instance, full of trash mobs, with over 10 people but not more than one guild/squad/group/whatever then you won't find what you want in GW2. If you just want something hard to do, that requires a team, there will be more options for you than any raid based MMO.
The explorable mode on dungeons looks about right for groups who enjoy raids, but without the need to repeat it ad naseum for good enough gear to go into the next dungeon. For larger groups there are epic DEs all over the world and plenty to do in WvW.
WoW style raids aren't as popular as some people like to think. It's often inconvienient or impossible to get 20+ people together with the right class balance and gear at the same time. The actual organization of a raid seems harder than most of the content, and takes longer too (unless you are in a top guild, maybe).
I played PWI for years, been in the top territory war guild for most of that time, was an officer in charge of PvE events for a while. When they introduced content for up to 100 people at a time I was excited. At first it was pretty easy to get 30+ people to go at any one time. After the novelty wore off and the most driven few got their gear it became a chore to even get the 15-20 minimum required for a run. I gave up after like a hundred hours of standing around spamming guild chat for that last cleric or tank or aoe DD. It doesn't help that they made the gear from that instance niche at best, better/similar gear is also farmed through 6 man dungeons that can be spammed (and some solo/duoed with broken op gear). I'd estimate 10-20% of MMO players are interested in large-group raid style content on more than just a casual basis. It's pretty likely GW2 will gain at least as many players who are specifically interested in the lack of gear treadmill than it will lose due to lack of WoW style raids.
ArenaNet wants everyone to be able to enjoy all the content. Dungeons, being the only content that enforces grouping, require only a small team and are relatively easy in story mode because of this.
Also, regardless of whether raiding is good or bad, if it could be done or not: Why exactly does GW2 need to have raids?
Some games have ffa PvP everywhere, some don't. Some offer more structured PvP where you join a group first and fight against other groups (or 1vs1, but a arena situation, not in the world). Some games are instanced, some are not. Some use voice over, some don't. And so on.
Why exactly should Guild Wars 2, or any game, have raids?
If a game has raids - good for the ones who like it. If not - either just stay away from it, or try it to find out whether you like it even without.
There is nothing special about raids when looking at it this way. It's a feature, not every game has the same features.
If you can conceive a convincing way of how to introduce raids into Guild Wars 2 that fit the game as it is, instead of changing the game until it fits raids, then tell it ArenaNet. Oh, of utmost important is obviously that people actually play it. Whether it's "the" raiders or someone else, creating content no one will ever see (i think, ArenaNet actually said it like this once when talking about raids) is pointless, so make sure as many people as possible will enjoy it.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
I completely agree.
Right now I play Tera. Since my pve character is at cap, the next bit is raiding for gear. I'd love to do it but just can't get myself to raid with people who are just horrible. And it's a mixed bag. Some good people and then these people who just ruin the experience.
Once the majoirty of my guild gets over to the new server I'm going to have to help arrange some group guild things.
Otherwise I'd just pass.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yep, that's the way I see it as well. These mega-events can be used as raids if people want to organize to do specific ones. Or, they can spontaneously group with a bunch of other people if they want to do that content.
The only issue I see is if a certain group wants to do a certain boss/event and *gasp* other people are there to help out. Then it's not quite the exclusive feel that raids in other games have.
Personally, I prefer the way Anet is doing it.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Guild Wars 2 is about the individual player having the power.
Raids is about the Guild and/or Guild leader having the power.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Well said - this is what the detractors don't seem to grasp and they look pretty silly for not doing so.
There IS 'raiding' in GW2 - it just isn't exclusive and a focus for leet and all the crapola that comes with leet. I have raided with excelelnt guilds in WoW and AoC to top level bosses and gear top to bottom. I don't have any interest in going back to that format because it becomes a chore - and of course I don't want to embarrass myself boasting about my gear.... it's childish.
I would bet real money that the big, high level DE world bosses are going to be damn difficult to take down and guilds are going to have to organise themselves along raid lines - the difference is, the other people comng along will assist - and they won't be excluded, nor a problem for the guild core of the people fighting.
Oh yeah - and everyone will get rewards as well - no awful dkp and arguements over precedence, seniority, 'accidental' ninjas or other rubbish.
Additionally, there AREN'T going to be wide swathes of the gameworld empty of players where it isn't going to be worth going. So no more playing the game 4 times a week JUST to raid then logging off at the entrance until the next repetition.
WIN WIN scenario - I just don't see the reason for complaint here.
The fact is that a great amount of people hated the current questing systems too. Or the class setups based around trinity. Or gear progresion at the end game.
My point is that people hate the Raids as presented in the games we have now. Anet made many classic MMO features appealing again by breaking the mold. Now if they were to add instanced Raids to their game dont you think that they would try to make them appealing as they did with other mechanics?
Again, one of the appeals of GW2 is player independence - content requiring guilds to play is a no go.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Which is funny for a game called Guild Wars...
Its called guild wars because of Lore. Not as a reference to what players do in the game.
You can educate yourself as to the lore behind GW through these videos if you are interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2nznISDkwk&feature=plcp
The name never made much sense.
The thing is that guilds in Guild Wars fill the role of what you would call in other games factions, houses, military organizations,criminal organizations, commercial organizations, etc.
The game itself started after the most recent war between guilds of the three human kingdoms.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
"Why are there no typical raids? This sux!"
"This game looks like all other MMO... boooring" / Same crowd
I have seen plenty equate raiding with this games events & truthfully that's a lousy comparison in my opinion.
Raiding has been developing & evolving in many games to the point where it requires a high degree of coordination, control, knowledge, tactics & timing.
GW2 events are essentially a disorganised rabble zerging down a big baddie, a world apart from what I would term raiding, GW2 events are essentially the exact opposite of an organised raid & I can see why raiding would be missed in GW2 - but it's a design choice that they made, GW2 isn't trying to be "yet another raiding gear-grinder" though those who see raiding as being "all about gear" are somewhat narrow-minded. It's about teamwork primarily, the gear just helps get the raid beat the events.
I'll still be playing GW2 but I'll get my "Raiding fix" elsewhere, GW2 will just be a "lightweight" entertainment to me, something to do as a side game, it wont ever be a main game to me without a serious raiding game because raiding is something I really enjoy.
Dungeons is 5 people groups - hardly a hassle once you don't require specific classes.
DE you show up - you are free to come and go.
WvW - like wise.
If a system where grouping is as easy and painless as it can be doesn't give you freedom...
And raids are designed for one to solve the puzzle, and once the puzzle is solved it is auto-win.u
Anyway, what elite DE did you experienced to base your opinion?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Another one that have already experienced loads of elite DE.
I wonder why I saw cannons, adds, walls, and other mechanics in some of the higher lvl Meta Events.
But I guess people still think playing your character and taking advantage of the others around you and the opportunities they create in not organized since it isn't a dance. Just because one guy is taking damage, while another heals him and the rest are spamming damage, doesn't make it any more teamwork than people taking their own tactical decisions, just a different type of teamwork.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Look, those that are looking for a game centralized around 20-40+ player, organized groups. Look elsewhere.
But to say that GW2 does not have content of the same difficulty, complexity, or tactical challenge of a raid is just bs. I have seen all of the same mechanics I've seen in raids be present in this game, in some fashion or another. The key difference is that, for the vast majority of raids, once you have the mechanics down, the challenge tends to dissolve very quickly. Even from the more interesting raid fights, the combat tends to always boil down to the lowest common denominator, and then the next raid comes out.
In GW2, the combat is indeed a lot more chaotic. However that doesn't mean it's less challenging. Imho, it actually means the opposite. Players are required to make tactical decisions on the fly, something you don't generally do much of in raids. The traditional raids are all about figuring out the mechanics you didn't see going into the fight, and then designation people to deal w/ them for the next run(s).
That said, there have already been guilds who run events like they would a raid. Hell, just check out the battle of dreaming bay to see a large, organized guild run. Yes, that is in WvW, but you can clearly see the organization, the on-the-fly tactical thinking, and how their decisions most definitely matter.
Anyone who has played the later / more elaborate events in the game will also know that this type of play very easily translates into PvE as well. There are a lot of dungeons that require coordination, both with traps, mobs, switches, puzzles, and handling special mechanics different bosses have. Then you have meta events, which are more elaborate than 99% of raid bosses I've fought. Most raid bosses seem flat out boring after playing in a meta event. There's always a lot going on, and I have yet to see a meta event which is just tank & spank the boss, while sometimes dodging something or another.
While these videos are interesting, I've played GW1 and know a few things about it.
GW1 was all about Guild pride! I dont see the same thing happening in GW2 and thats one of the few things I dislike about it.
It is quite obvious that you haven't raided in other games very much.
I'm not so sure about it.
With WvW providing benefits for all your realm, with guilds being able to cap structures in WvW, I think we will have a mixture of Guild and Server pride.
Not only that, while capes seem absent (shame, I liked capes) you will be able to costumize weapons and armors with your guild symbols and there is always sPvP torunaments.
Why do you think it will disapear? option to join multiple guilds? No GvG? Lack of HoH victory broadcast?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders