Your jaded bro. it happens. it's the time in your life you realize..they're all pretty much the same with a few thing's you never tried thrown in the same thing you just tried 50 games before.
It Gets old and your feeling burnt thats's all.
Uh, the problem isn't being jaded. The problem is that all AAA "MM"ORPGs are just WoW clones, so they are inherently the same.
If you played enough of these clones and it never changed wouldnt you be jaded then?
Originally posted by jeremyjodes Your jaded bro. it happens. it's the time in your life you realize..they're all pretty much the same with a few thing's you never tried thrown in the same thing you just tried 50 games before.It Gets old and your feeling burnt thats's all.
Uh, the problem isn't being jaded. The problem is that all AAA "MM"ORPGs are just WoW clones, so they are inherently the same.
And he keeps buying into, just like many others. Who's fault is that really? The player, not he developer.
Your jaded bro. it happens. it's the time in your life you realize..they're all pretty much the same with a few thing's you never tried thrown in the same thing you just tried 50 games before.
It Gets old and your feeling burnt thats's all.
Uh, the problem isn't being jaded. The problem is that all AAA "MM"ORPGs are just WoW clones, so they are inherently the same.
If you played enough of these clones and it never changed wouldnt you be jaded then?
I suppose that's true, but that's not the fault of the person, it's the fault of the bad "themepark" WoW clones that are now the industry AAA standard.
OP, what happened to those days? WoW and big publishers happened.
Vanguard and Darkfall are probably your best bet in terms of oldschool well designed MMOs. Though for Darkfall I'd wait until 2.0 launches.
Originally posted by StoneRoses Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by GTwander I think most people that are tired of the genre don't know what to play unless it's shoved in their face via some headline.There is a tab at the top of the page here that says "game list". Go through it and look at the many ones your *not* playing.
In all fairness to the OP most of the games on that list don't offer what he's looking for, especially if they are newer titles.
"They sure don't build them like they used to" is actually a pretty accurate statement when discussing MMORPG design evolution, and for those who want them to be the same are going to be disappointed.
I gave up, now I find the fun in each new title that comes out, and don't waste any time looking for features they don't include, I can only hope one day they'll make a small comeback in future games.
Glad to see someone pointed that out! Sounds more his own fault if anything, like there weren't any red flags prior to purchasing any of those games. All i read from the Op is another bad consumer who doesn't do enough research on products before purchasing. Consumer blames developer for not disclosing more details about the game.
I don't think that is what Kyleran was saying at all and I think your post is a little unfair to judge me based on that.
I am not blaming anyone, I am asking the question "What happened to the good old days where games were packed with content, depths, lore, freedom, support, immersion"?
I have been doing nothing but researching for the last few years, I want another good game to move onto and call home but i don't see any.
You do not see enough of it these days and I do not see any of it in F2P games and if there is some, you have to pay to unlock it, sometimes multiple times! I am not against F2P at all, I just see a negative trend of F2P games offering less and less for more and more money.
I am wondering when gamers will draw a line in the sand and say,"Hey enough is enough, you need to start giving us decent games again for the money we pay..."
These days I see a lot of games grab you by the pix-elated throat and drag you down a specific path whether you like it or not and when you reach the end, you're done. You can create another character and do it all over again or you can throw money at your screen to make your character look better/prettier or cooler but what other options do you have?
Options are becoming scarce these days.
Unfair? You practically gave your money away by doing this you like many others continue to support the development of these games. Then you sit wondering why you are burnt out. They found a way to make money and your it.
Unfortunately, the CEOs that have this genre by the privates don't care about 500k or 1 million subs. They want WoW numbers. So they shoot for the casual audience by making a WoW clone (a clone of a poorly designed clone...I'm sure there's something to be said about incest there), and don't understand that you can't capture an audience that's already captivated by a similar game.
MMOs have plummetted in terms of design, innovation, depth, scale, it's all gone way down hill and is only starting to ever so slightly pick up now. But it'll never get back to where it used to be until publishers pull out of the genre.
The only games that will be even slightly innovative are the underfunded indie games that get almost no press or support.
I totally agree Garvon, I just wish someone would put their hand up and actually put some effort into seeing how many players would be interested in such a game, then going all out on it, I believe it would most likely take the crown over any other game out today and I think it would last a long time if made correctly.
I sadly can't see anyone putting their hands up and taking that risk though.
One Indy game that comes to mind is "Dear Esther" such a simple game yet beautifully done, I can't see that being turned into an MMORPG but with that kind of thinking, a great MMORPG could be made with the right support and financial backing.
Someone linked an interview with the UO creator that I watched today, that is what got me thinking about it all, he is an inspiring man and had an awesome instinct, he even said himself that when he listened to others and let them tell him what to do, his (two I believe) projects failed.
These days we do not have anyone like him taking risks and going it alone, there is too many chefs in the kitchen and they are all trying to squeeze every last cent out of us while providing us with a little as possible in return.
Unfortunately, the CEOs that have this genre by the privates don't care about 500k or 1 million subs. They want WoW numbers. So they shoot for the casual audience by making a WoW clone (a clone of a poorly designed clone...I'm sure there's something to be said about incest there), and don't understand that you can't capture an audience that's already captivated by a similar game.
MMOs have plummetted in terms of design, innovation, depth, scale, it's all gone way down hill and is only starting to ever so slightly pick up now. But it'll never get back to where it used to be until publishers pull out of the genre.
The only games that will be even slightly innovative are the underfunded indie games that get almost no press or support.
I totally agree Garvon, I just wish someone would put their hand up and actually put some effort into seeing how many players would be interested in such a game, then going all out on it, I believe it would most likely take the crown over any other game out today and I think it would last a long time if made correctly.
I sadly can't see anyone putting their hands up and taking that risk though.
One Indy game that comes to mind is "Dear Esther" such a simple game yet beautifully done, I can't see that being turned into an MMORPG but with that kind of thinking, a great MMORPG could be made with the right support and financial backing.
Someone linked an interview with the UO creator that I watched today, that is what got me thinking about it all, he is an inspiring man and had an awesome instinct, he even said himself that when he listened to others and let them tell him what to do, his (two I believe) projects failed.
These days we do not have anyone like him taking risks and going it alone, there is too many chefs in the kitchen and they are all trying to squeeze every last cent out of us while providing us with a little as possible in return.
I think the greatest irony is... all these WOW clones that shoot for the millions end up with LESS subs than if they had just made a hardcore MMO. Age of Conan limped along with about 100k after both its publishers went bankrupt. That's less than even some of the smallest MMOs had back in DIAL UP days.
Unfair? You practically gave your money away by doing this you like many others continue to support the development of these games. Then you sit wondering why you are burnt out. They found a way to make money and your it.
Where are you getting that I hand over money and support these games?
Most of the games I listed I paid to try and then ended my subscription when i did not like them, how else will I know unless I actually play them first? and I mean actually play them, not just level a character to 10 and quit.
I do not buy anything from cash shops, ever.
I am one of the last people to throw money at a game unless it is of quality and holds my interest. If it does all of those things and more, I will be willing to pay upwards of $30+ a month to support that game and pay extra for expansions plus pay for an initial digital download or retail box but it has to have those things in order for me to do that and nothing these days is worth that kind of cash to me.
The only game I gave money to was GW2 and I will be playing it on the side, it's a fun game and I will play through to max level and mess around PvP for fun when I feel like it but that is the only game at the moment that I am willing to pay outright to play for free.
Unfortunately, the CEOs that have this genre by the privates don't care about 500k or 1 million subs. They want WoW numbers. So they shoot for the casual audience by making a WoW clone (a clone of a poorly designed clone...I'm sure there's something to be said about incest there), and don't understand that you can't capture an audience that's already captivated by a similar game.
MMOs have plummetted in terms of design, innovation, depth, scale, it's all gone way down hill and is only starting to ever so slightly pick up now. But it'll never get back to where it used to be until publishers pull out of the genre.
The only games that will be even slightly innovative are the underfunded indie games that get almost no press or support.
I totally agree Garvon, I just wish someone would put their hand up and actually put some effort into seeing how many players would be interested in such a game, then going all out on it, I believe it would most likely take the crown over any other game out today and I think it would last a long time if made correctly.
I sadly can't see anyone putting their hands up and taking that risk though.
One Indy game that comes to mind is "Dear Esther" such a simple game yet beautifully done, I can't see that being turned into an MMORPG but with that kind of thinking, a great MMORPG could be made with the right support and financial backing.
Someone linked an interview with the UO creator that I watched today, that is what got me thinking about it all, he is an inspiring man and had an awesome instinct, he even said himself that when he listened to others and let them tell him what to do, his (two I believe) projects failed.
These days we do not have anyone like him taking risks and going it alone, there is too many chefs in the kitchen and they are all trying to squeeze every last cent out of us while providing us with a little as possible in return.
I think the greatest irony is... all these WOW clones that shoot for the millions end up with LESS subs than if they had just made a hardcore MMO. Age of Conan limped along with about 100k after both its publishers went bankrupt. That's less than even some of the smallest MMOs had back in DIAL UP days.
Lol, I know it's crazy!
These F2P games are making millions upon millions of dollars for companies though so players are willing to spend big, it's just a shame that they spend so much on such poor games, if they hold out and spend up big on great games, the industry would have to take note and change their way of thinking...if we could get them to think like:
"Ok, these guys are willing to throw money at us but we need to give them better games with more content and freedom, they want their money's worth or they will not pay up".
It would be much better for the gaming community as a whole if that were the case but at the moment people just throw money at them because it's the "best we are going to get?"
The reason I get depressed is simply because of the fact that most MMOs are dumbed down to a level that almost feels insulting, I realize this is done so that a specific game will be more appealing to the masses. They don't make games like Anarchy Online any more which was an extremely complex game on most levels.. but thats how it goes when you cater to stupid and lazy people who are not willing to make an effort.
Originally posted by jeremyjodesYour jaded bro. it happens. it's the time in your life you realize..they're all pretty much the same with a few thing's you never tried thrown in the same thing you just tried 50 games before.It Gets old and your feeling burnt thats's all.
Uh, the problem isn't being jaded. The problem is that all AAA "MM"ORPGs are just WoW clones, so they are inherently the same.
And he keeps buying into, just like many others. Who's fault is that really? The player, not he developer.
SWTOR was good for one reason, the mass flee that has taken place has put MMORPG devs on edge. If it had bombed on box sales the genre would be on high alert, sadly the consumers dropped the ball on that part. Lets hope the rest of those poor poor misguided simple folk that are still giving EA 15 on the hope that SWTOR morphs into a real MMORPG realize there is no hope, there is only loss, pack up, and move on, killing SWTOR and plating a flag that reads Evolve or Die for the rest of the genre to see.
Aye exactly, I was one of those fleeing, no matter which way I looked at it, the game just didn't do it for me and through no lack of trying either.
It is a good message but I am wondering if it is big enough, they will definitely take note and try to figure out why they lost so many and where they failed for future reference but other Devs will sit back laughing thinking they have an awesome game that is nothing like SWTOR when in actual fact, their game isn't much better at all but we like it more than SWTOR so we pay for it, due to there being no other options in the MMO market currently...
It sends the wrong message but we have no other options unless we all just stop gaming all together for a while... and I assure you that will not happen lol
Originally posted by StoneRoses Originally posted by Kilsin Originally posted by StoneRoses Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by GTwander ...Snip
Unfair? You practically gave your money away by doing this you like many others continue to support the development of these games. Then you sit wondering why you are burnt out. They found a way to make money and your it.
Where are you getting that I hand over money and support these games?
Most of the games I listed I paid to try and then ended my subscription when i did not like them, how else will I know unless I actually play them first? and I mean actually play them, not just level a character to 10 and quit.
I do not buy anything from cash shops, ever.
I am one of the last people to throw money at a game unless it is of quality and holds my interest. If it does all of those things and more, I will be willing to pay upwards of $30+ a month to support that game and pay extra for expansions plus pay for an initial digital download or retail box but it has to have those things in order for me to do that and nothing these days is worth that kind of cash to me.
The only game I gave money to was GW2 and I will be playing it on the side, it's a fun game and I will play through to max level and mess around PvP for fun when I feel like it but that is the only game at the moment that I am willing to pay outright to play for free.
Last time I checked you and I have the same resources, Internet is filled with many useful information especially gameplay footage. It's not like developers blindsided you.
You gave your money away the moment you purchased that box or that digital copy.
The reason I get depressed is simply because of the fact that most MMOs are dumbed down to a level that almost feels insulting, I realize this is done so that a specific game will be more appealing to the masses. They don't make games like Anarchy Online any more which was an extremely complex game on most levels.. but thats how it goes when you cater to stupid and lazy people who are not willing to make an effort.
You know what, you are absolutely right in my eyes but I was trying to stay away from that topic of discussion for fear it would start flame wars and arguments.
I am seeing this change happen right now in Vanguard, F2P comes in to "save the day apparently" and now all the dumbing down begins, it's pretty sickening to watch to be honest.
Removing abilities in the level 1-10 range so new players are not confused by them all, then at level 11 throwing 3/4 of them back in their face at once saying, now learn these!
Placing quest givers in their face when they log in instead of 5-10m away in case they "miss them".
Removing the choice to start in racial starting areas because the world is too big and with low population, new players would have no one to play with. While I do agree with this one, many alternate options were given to the Devs from veterans on how to combat this and still keep the racial areas and awesome racial lore intact (like adding rift ways for 1-10 players to interact and a quest chain leading them all to a dungeon to group up and so on...) but the Devs have $'s in the eyes and think all the new players that will be joining are vegetables that drool and can't think for themselves.
Which is sad...this is the way MMOs are going these days as you stated and I am not sure why?
They remove the challenge and skill factor and they essentially suck the life out of the game, which shortens it's life span and ultimately reduces the amount of dollars they can milk from us.
Originally posted by Xobdnas Originally posted by StoneRoses Originally posted by Garvon3Originally posted by jeremyjodesYour jaded bro. it happens. it's the time in your life you realize..they're all pretty much the same with a few thing's you never tried thrown in the same thing you just tried 50 games before.It Gets old and your feeling burnt thats's all.
Uh, the problem isn't being jaded. The problem is that all AAA "MM"ORPGs are just WoW clones, so they are inherently the same.
And he keeps buying into, just like many others. Who's fault is that really? The player, not he developer.
SWTOR was good for one reason, the mass flee that has taken place has put MMORPG devs on edge. If it had bombed on box sales the genre would be on high alert, sadly the consumers dropped the ball on that part. Lets hope the rest of those poor poor misguided simple folk that are still giving EA 15 on the hope that SWTOR morphs into a real MMORPG realize there is no hope, there is only loss, pack up, and move on, killing SWTOR and plating a flag that reads Evolve or Die for the rest of the genre to see.
Aye exactly, I was one of those fleeing, no matter which way I looked at it, the game just didn't do it for me and through no lack of trying either.
It is a good message but I am wondering if it is big enough, they will definitely take note and try to figure out why they lost so many and where they failed for future reference but other Devs will sit back laughing thinking they have an awesome game that is nothing like SWTOR when in actual fact, their game isn't much better at all but we like it more than SWTOR so we pay for it, due to there being no other options in the MMO market currently...
It sends the wrong message but we have no other options unless we all just stop gaming all together for a while... and I assure you that will not happen lol
This a perfect example! You and I saw the same flaws and lack of depth the game has. So what happens? Knowing exactly many were getting into many force themselves to buy something they did like, weren't going to like, or just to prove to everyone that it was just that bad. Again, blame the consumer not the developer for making that decision.
You seem like a person that's played nothing but MMORPG for many, many years.
My suggestion go play some high quality games outside the mmo genre for a couple years.
THen come back.
You are kind of correct but I do mix it up, I am currently playing:
MMO's:
Vanguard - main MMO for last 5 years
GW2 beta testing from pre purchase
TERA - played since beta and recently closed my account through bordom loved the graphics though
AION - reopened my old account since F2P launched and closed it again 2 weeks later
Waiting for ESO and ArchAge.
I have played many other MMOs including EQ, EQ2, LotrO, Rift, WoW trial, SW:TOR and others I have probably forgotten to mention.
Console:
MW3 - I continue to play MW3 a few times a week with friends - fun
Battlefield 3 - stopped playing recently but had fun for a while
Fifa 12 - fun for a change
Forza 4 - fun as I have an interest in cars and racing in real life
AC Revelations - finished loved it
Mass Effect 3 - finished loved it.
For some reason I play my FPS on Xbox 360 and all my RPG and MMOs on PC, not sure why, that is how I have grown up on games
I do the same thing lol.....fps on computers just to hard to set up ur controls and then there are tons of hacks that get in the games , I prefer my comp for mmos and strat games and fps and sports on the console
MMOs change. People change. If you are miserable you need to change.
Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
The people changed yes, but he does not need to change. Back in the days of UO, EQ or even AC. The gamer was, not to say smarter, but more of that geeky gamer, not the "currently hip" crowd. Back when UO was at its hieght people who played it were the same people who played D&D on the weekends with friends in their basements, they understood what it meant to ROLEPLAY, they werent just out to power level and be the first to reach the end game content, or to be the best PvPer. So with the rise of these "simpler" gamers came the rise of the simple MMO for them. Ones that give them that power gamer feel so everyone can feel special instead of those who actually worked in the game. Some people blame WoW for this, I blame EQ, AC, and DAoC for this. For they came out and took away the want or need to roleplay your character by being appealing to the mainstream casual player.
There are still game communities out there like the old UO, but most of us are older, and have less time to dedicate to those ventures.
Unfair? You practically gave your money away by doing this you like many others continue to support the development of these games. Then you sit wondering why you are burnt out. They found a way to make money and your it.
Where are you getting that I hand over money and support these games?
Most of the games I listed I paid to try and then ended my subscription when i did not like them, how else will I know unless I actually play them first? and I mean actually play them, not just level a character to 10 and quit.
I do not buy anything from cash shops, ever.
I am one of the last people to throw money at a game unless it is of quality and holds my interest. If it does all of those things and more, I will be willing to pay upwards of $30+ a month to support that game and pay extra for expansions plus pay for an initial digital download or retail box but it has to have those things in order for me to do that and nothing these days is worth that kind of cash to me.
The only game I gave money to was GW2 and I will be playing it on the side, it's a fun game and I will play through to max level and mess around PvP for fun when I feel like it but that is the only game at the moment that I am willing to pay outright to play for free.
Last time I checked you and I have the same resources, Internet is filled with many useful information especially gameplay footage. It's not like developers blindsided you. You gave your money away the moment you purchased that box or that digital copy.
If I am unable to get into a beta for a game, I have nothing to go on other than advertising, marketing and whatever game play footage I can get from the net, if the game appeals to me and I want to check it out further to see if its everything they say it is and check out features that were not as openly advertised, how am I supposed to do that without paying to see for myself?
I could sit back and wait for how ever many months until someone posted footage of it or I could try it out.
if ESO releases like GW2 with a pre purchase, I will pay for it. If it turns out to be less than what I expected, I will leave and not give another cent to them.
It does make a difference, box sales alone recoup the majority of the costings to make and advertise the game but the ongoing transactions are where the majority of the profit is whether it be micro transactions or a subscription fee.
Originally posted by jeremyjodesYour jaded bro. it happens. it's the time in your life you realize..they're all pretty much the same with a few thing's you never tried thrown in the same thing you just tried 50 games before.It Gets old and your feeling burnt thats's all.
Uh, the problem isn't being jaded. The problem is that all AAA "MM"ORPGs are just WoW clones, so they are inherently the same.
And he keeps buying into, just like many others. Who's fault is that really? The player, not he developer.
SWTOR was good for one reason, the mass flee that has taken place has put MMORPG devs on edge. If it had bombed on box sales the genre would be on high alert, sadly the consumers dropped the ball on that part. Lets hope the rest of those poor poor misguided simple folk that are still giving EA 15 on the hope that SWTOR morphs into a real MMORPG realize there is no hope, there is only loss, pack up, and move on, killing SWTOR and plating a flag that reads Evolve or Die for the rest of the genre to see.
Aye exactly, I was one of those fleeing, no matter which way I looked at it, the game just didn't do it for me and through no lack of trying either.
It is a good message but I am wondering if it is big enough, they will definitely take note and try to figure out why they lost so many and where they failed for future reference but other Devs will sit back laughing thinking they have an awesome game that is nothing like SWTOR when in actual fact, their game isn't much better at all but we like it more than SWTOR so we pay for it, due to there being no other options in the MMO market currently...
It sends the wrong message but we have no other options unless we all just stop gaming all together for a while... and I assure you that will not happen lol
This a perfect example! You and I saw the same flaws and lack of depth the game has. So what happens? Knowing exactly many were getting into many force themselves to buy something they did like, weren't going to like, or just to prove to everyone that it was just that bad. Again, blame the consumer not the developer for making that decision.
That is a silly example though...
I liked what I saw, I believed it would be a good game, I invested money thinking I would play for the long term but then after a few weeks, I realised, it was not what they said it would be, it has many issues, it was laggy, the PvE was pretty lame and the PvP was poor.
So I took my money and left, cancelled my subscription and will not give them anymore money, like thousands of other players.
They received my initial digital sale but will no longer make any more money from me, which is where the majority of companies make their biggest profit margin, via on going micro transactions and subscriptions.
How were we to know that it would have all those problems and be so much less than what we expected without playing it?
Aye exactly, I was one of those fleeing, no matter which way I looked at it, the game just didn't do it for me and through no lack of trying either.
It is a good message but I am wondering if it is big enough, they will definitely take note and try to figure out why they lost so many and where they failed for future reference but other Devs will sit back laughing thinking they have an awesome game that is nothing like SWTOR when in actual fact, their game isn't much better at all but we like it more than SWTOR so we pay for it, due to there being no other options in the MMO market currently...
It sends the wrong message but we have no other options unless we all just stop gaming all together for a while... and I assure you that will not happen lol
This a perfect example! You and I saw the same flaws and lack of depth the game has. So what happens? Knowing exactly many were getting into many force themselves to buy something they did like, weren't going to like, or just to prove to everyone that it was just that bad. Again, blame the consumer not the developer for making that decision.
That is a silly example though...
I liked what I saw, I believed it would be a good game, I invested money thinking I would play for the long term but then after a few weeks, I realised, it was not what they said it would be, it has many issues, it was laggy, the PvE was pretty lame and the PvP was poor.
So I took my money and left, cancelled my subscription and will not give them anymore money, like thousands of other players.
They received my initial digital sale but will no longer make any more money from me, which is where the majority of companies make their biggest profit margin, via on going micro transactions and subscriptions.
How were we to know that it would have all those problems and be so much less than what we expected without playing it?
I learned from Mortal Online not to do that. I seen from SWTOR that it was going to be a WoW clone with glowbats. Vast majority of gamers out there today have the game shopping mentality of a Chihuahua, or a 6 year old child. Every five minutes, "OH PRETTY SHINY! BUY ME THAT!" or "Its going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!" 1 week after release, "This next game is going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!"
Hell you can go through this VERY website and find at least a thousand forum posts where the date is the first few days if not before the game is released where they say its going to be the best game ever, or the WoW beater, or the next UO.
At this point its become like a game to me to see how many morons will continue to buy games based on the pretty presentation that a company makes at E3 or some other game convention. Hell if you threw a few hundred thousand dollars at Donkey Kong you could make a really cool CGI video presentation that looks nothing like the game with a great story concept that will not be in the game, that will lure millions of idiots to buy it.
P.T. Barnum - "There's a sucker born every minute."
I liked what I saw, I believed it would be a good game, I invested money thinking I would play for the long term but then after a few weeks, I realised, it was not what they said it would be, it has many issues, it was laggy, the PvE was pretty lame and the PvP was poor.
So I took my money and left, cancelled my subscription and will not give them anymore money, like thousands of other players.
They received my initial digital sale but will no longer make any more money from me, which is where the majority of companies make their biggest profit margin, via on going micro transactions and subscriptions.
How were we to know that it would have all those problems and be so much less than what we expected without playing it?
I learned from Mortal Online not to do that. I seen from SWTOR that it was going to be a WoW clone with glowbats. Vast majority of gamers out there today have the game shopping mentality of a Chihuahua, or a 6 year old child. Every five minutes, "OH PRETTY SHINY! BUY ME THAT!" or "Its going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!" 1 week after release, "This next game is going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!"
Hell you can go through this VERY website and find at least a thousand forum posts where the date is the first few days if not before the game is released where they say its going to be the best game ever, or the WoW beater, or the next UO.
At this point its become like a game to me to see how many morons will continue to buy games based on the pretty presentation that a company makes at E3 or some other game convention. Hell if you threw a few hundred thousand dollars at Donkey Kong you could make a really cool CGI video presentation that looks nothing like the game with a great story concept that will not be in the game, that will lure millions of idiots to buy it.
P.T. Barnum - "There's a sucker born every minute."
I see what you mean and I would usually agree but I am far from one of those "Oh shiny, buy it now" kind of guys.
I like to experience things for myself, rather than listen to someone else's interpretation of something, take TERA for example, I wanted to try out the combat system, I am a hardcore gamer and love raiding, grinding, using skill to over come challenges and obstacles, TERAs combat system looked half decent even in game play videos but there was no way I could tell if I would like it without playing for myself to see how it handled and felt to me as a gamer.
If TERA had a free trial when it was launched, I would of used that to test it but since it didn't, I had no way of knowing without paying.
I wish all games launched with a 7 day trial but I can't see that happening as we would all realise we don't want to spend money on their games and leave, then they wouldn't be able to cover the cost of making the game in the first place and probably go broke.
Originally posted by Hodo Originally posted by Kilsin ...Snip
That is a silly example though...
I liked what I saw, I believed it would be a good game, I invested money thinking I would play for the long term but then after a few weeks, I realised, it was not what they said it would be, it has many issues, it was laggy, the PvE was pretty lame and the PvP was poor.
So I took my money and left, cancelled my subscription and will not give them anymore money, like thousands of other players.
They received my initial digital sale but will no longer make any more money from me, which is where the majority of companies make their biggest profit margin, via on going micro transactions and subscriptions.
How were we to know that it would have all those problems and be so much less than what we expected without playing it?
I learned from Mortal Online not to do that. I seen from SWTOR that it was going to be a WoW clone with glowbats. Vast majority of gamers out there today have the game shopping mentality of a Chihuahua, or a 6 year old child. Every five minutes, "OH PRETTY SHINY! BUY ME THAT!" or "Its going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!" 1 week after release, "This next game is going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!"
Hell you can go through this VERY website and find at least a thousand forum posts where the date is the first few days if not before the game is released where they say its going to be the best game ever, or the WoW beater, or the next UO.
At this point its become like a game to me to see how many morons will continue to buy games based on the pretty presentation that a company makes at E3 or some other game convention. Hell if you threw a few hundred thousand dollars at Donkey Kong you could make a really cool CGI video presentation that looks nothing like the game with a great story concept that will not be in the game, that will lure millions of idiots to buy it.
P.T. Barnum - "There's a sucker born every minute."
I see what you mean and I would usually agree but I am far from one of those "Oh shiny, buy it now" kind of guys.
I like to experience things for myself, rather than listen to someone else's interpretation of something, take TERA for example, I wanted to try out the combat system, I am a hardcore gamer and love raiding, grinding, using skill to over come challenges and obstacles, TERAs combat system looked half decent even in game play videos but there was no way I could tell if I would like it without playing for myself to see how it handled and felt to me as a gamer.
If TERA had a free trial when it was launched, I would of used that to test it but since it didn't, I had no way of knowing without paying.
I wish all games launched with a 7 day trial but I can't see that happening as we would all realise we don't want to spend money on their games and leave, then they wouldn't be able to cover the cost of making the game in the first place and probably go broke.
I am far from a sucker but I get your point
I don't know why you keep trying to jump through hoops. Both Tera and SWTOR had closed and open beta invites.
The people changed yes, but he does not need to change.
The problem is, he does need to change. The gaming marketplace changed. The games changed due to the demands of the marketplace. The games he liked, the gameplay he liked, is gone and is never coming back in any meaningful way. Therefore, he either needs to adapt his preferences to the new reality and play the games that exist, or he needs to change his hobby and go find something else to do.
Or he can do what most people here on MMORPG.com do and sit around whining about how everyone owes them a game. Of course, that goes nowhere so we'll just disregard it.
Reality is what is. This is the state of MMOs. Take it or leave it.
Comments
If you played enough of these clones and it never changed wouldnt you be jaded then?
Uh, the problem isn't being jaded. The problem is that all AAA "MM"ORPGs are just WoW clones, so they are inherently the same.
And he keeps buying into, just like many others. Who's fault is that really? The player, not he developer.I suppose that's true, but that's not the fault of the person, it's the fault of the bad "themepark" WoW clones that are now the industry AAA standard.
OP, what happened to those days? WoW and big publishers happened.
Vanguard and Darkfall are probably your best bet in terms of oldschool well designed MMOs. Though for Darkfall I'd wait until 2.0 launches.
In all fairness to the OP most of the games on that list don't offer what he's looking for, especially if they are newer titles.
"They sure don't build them like they used to" is actually a pretty accurate statement when discussing MMORPG design evolution, and for those who want them to be the same are going to be disappointed.
I gave up, now I find the fun in each new title that comes out, and don't waste any time looking for features they don't include, I can only hope one day they'll make a small comeback in future games.
Glad to see someone pointed that out! Sounds more his own fault if anything, like there weren't any red flags prior to purchasing any of those games. All i read from the Op is another bad consumer who doesn't do enough research on products before purchasing. Consumer blames developer for not disclosing more details about the game.I don't think that is what Kyleran was saying at all and I think your post is a little unfair to judge me based on that.
I am not blaming anyone, I am asking the question "What happened to the good old days where games were packed with content, depths, lore, freedom, support, immersion"?
I have been doing nothing but researching for the last few years, I want another good game to move onto and call home but i don't see any.
You do not see enough of it these days and I do not see any of it in F2P games and if there is some, you have to pay to unlock it, sometimes multiple times! I am not against F2P at all, I just see a negative trend of F2P games offering less and less for more and more money.
I am wondering when gamers will draw a line in the sand and say,"Hey enough is enough, you need to start giving us decent games again for the money we pay..."
These days I see a lot of games grab you by the pix-elated throat and drag you down a specific path whether you like it or not and when you reach the end, you're done. You can create another character and do it all over again or you can throw money at your screen to make your character look better/prettier or cooler but what other options do you have?
Options are becoming scarce these days.
Unfair? You practically gave your money away by doing this you like many others continue to support the development of these games. Then you sit wondering why you are burnt out. They found a way to make money and your it.I totally agree Garvon, I just wish someone would put their hand up and actually put some effort into seeing how many players would be interested in such a game, then going all out on it, I believe it would most likely take the crown over any other game out today and I think it would last a long time if made correctly.
I sadly can't see anyone putting their hands up and taking that risk though.
One Indy game that comes to mind is "Dear Esther" such a simple game yet beautifully done, I can't see that being turned into an MMORPG but with that kind of thinking, a great MMORPG could be made with the right support and financial backing.
Someone linked an interview with the UO creator that I watched today, that is what got me thinking about it all, he is an inspiring man and had an awesome instinct, he even said himself that when he listened to others and let them tell him what to do, his (two I believe) projects failed.
These days we do not have anyone like him taking risks and going it alone, there is too many chefs in the kitchen and they are all trying to squeeze every last cent out of us while providing us with a little as possible in return.
I think the greatest irony is... all these WOW clones that shoot for the millions end up with LESS subs than if they had just made a hardcore MMO. Age of Conan limped along with about 100k after both its publishers went bankrupt. That's less than even some of the smallest MMOs had back in DIAL UP days.
Where are you getting that I hand over money and support these games?
Most of the games I listed I paid to try and then ended my subscription when i did not like them, how else will I know unless I actually play them first? and I mean actually play them, not just level a character to 10 and quit.
I do not buy anything from cash shops, ever.
I am one of the last people to throw money at a game unless it is of quality and holds my interest. If it does all of those things and more, I will be willing to pay upwards of $30+ a month to support that game and pay extra for expansions plus pay for an initial digital download or retail box but it has to have those things in order for me to do that and nothing these days is worth that kind of cash to me.
The only game I gave money to was GW2 and I will be playing it on the side, it's a fun game and I will play through to max level and mess around PvP for fun when I feel like it but that is the only game at the moment that I am willing to pay outright to play for free.
Lol, I know it's crazy!
These F2P games are making millions upon millions of dollars for companies though so players are willing to spend big, it's just a shame that they spend so much on such poor games, if they hold out and spend up big on great games, the industry would have to take note and change their way of thinking...if we could get them to think like:
"Ok, these guys are willing to throw money at us but we need to give them better games with more content and freedom, they want their money's worth or they will not pay up".
It would be much better for the gaming community as a whole if that were the case but at the moment people just throw money at them because it's the "best we are going to get?"
It doesn't make sense
The reason I get depressed is simply because of the fact that most MMOs are dumbed down to a level that almost feels insulting, I realize this is done so that a specific game will be more appealing to the masses. They don't make games like Anarchy Online any more which was an extremely complex game on most levels.. but thats how it goes when you cater to stupid and lazy people who are not willing to make an effort.
Aye exactly, I was one of those fleeing, no matter which way I looked at it, the game just didn't do it for me and through no lack of trying either.
It is a good message but I am wondering if it is big enough, they will definitely take note and try to figure out why they lost so many and where they failed for future reference but other Devs will sit back laughing thinking they have an awesome game that is nothing like SWTOR when in actual fact, their game isn't much better at all but we like it more than SWTOR so we pay for it, due to there being no other options in the MMO market currently...
It sends the wrong message but we have no other options unless we all just stop gaming all together for a while... and I assure you that will not happen lol
Unfair? You practically gave your money away by doing this you like many others continue to support the development of these games. Then you sit wondering why you are burnt out. They found a way to make money and your it.Where are you getting that I hand over money and support these games?
Most of the games I listed I paid to try and then ended my subscription when i did not like them, how else will I know unless I actually play them first? and I mean actually play them, not just level a character to 10 and quit.
I do not buy anything from cash shops, ever.
I am one of the last people to throw money at a game unless it is of quality and holds my interest. If it does all of those things and more, I will be willing to pay upwards of $30+ a month to support that game and pay extra for expansions plus pay for an initial digital download or retail box but it has to have those things in order for me to do that and nothing these days is worth that kind of cash to me.
The only game I gave money to was GW2 and I will be playing it on the side, it's a fun game and I will play through to max level and mess around PvP for fun when I feel like it but that is the only game at the moment that I am willing to pay outright to play for free.
Last time I checked you and I have the same resources, Internet is filled with many useful information especially gameplay footage. It's not like developers blindsided you.You gave your money away the moment you purchased that box or that digital copy.
You know what, you are absolutely right in my eyes but I was trying to stay away from that topic of discussion for fear it would start flame wars and arguments.
I am seeing this change happen right now in Vanguard, F2P comes in to "save the day apparently" and now all the dumbing down begins, it's pretty sickening to watch to be honest.
Removing abilities in the level 1-10 range so new players are not confused by them all, then at level 11 throwing 3/4 of them back in their face at once saying, now learn these!
Placing quest givers in their face when they log in instead of 5-10m away in case they "miss them".
Removing the choice to start in racial starting areas because the world is too big and with low population, new players would have no one to play with. While I do agree with this one, many alternate options were given to the Devs from veterans on how to combat this and still keep the racial areas and awesome racial lore intact (like adding rift ways for 1-10 players to interact and a quest chain leading them all to a dungeon to group up and so on...) but the Devs have $'s in the eyes and think all the new players that will be joining are vegetables that drool and can't think for themselves.
Which is sad...this is the way MMOs are going these days as you stated and I am not sure why?
They remove the challenge and skill factor and they essentially suck the life out of the game, which shortens it's life span and ultimately reduces the amount of dollars they can milk from us.
/boggle
I found the problem. YOU NEVER PLAYED WOW. GO TRY IT
And he keeps buying into, just like many others. Who's fault is that really? The player, not he developer.
SWTOR was good for one reason, the mass flee that has taken place has put MMORPG devs on edge. If it had bombed on box sales the genre would be on high alert, sadly the consumers dropped the ball on that part. Lets hope the rest of those poor poor misguided simple folk that are still giving EA 15 on the hope that SWTOR morphs into a real MMORPG realize there is no hope, there is only loss, pack up, and move on, killing SWTOR and plating a flag that reads Evolve or Die for the rest of the genre to see.
Aye exactly, I was one of those fleeing, no matter which way I looked at it, the game just didn't do it for me and through no lack of trying either.
It is a good message but I am wondering if it is big enough, they will definitely take note and try to figure out why they lost so many and where they failed for future reference but other Devs will sit back laughing thinking they have an awesome game that is nothing like SWTOR when in actual fact, their game isn't much better at all but we like it more than SWTOR so we pay for it, due to there being no other options in the MMO market currently...
It sends the wrong message but we have no other options unless we all just stop gaming all together for a while... and I assure you that will not happen lol
This a perfect example! You and I saw the same flaws and lack of depth the game has. So what happens? Knowing exactly many were getting into many force themselves to buy something they did like, weren't going to like, or just to prove to everyone that it was just that bad. Again, blame the consumer not the developer for making that decision.I do the same thing lol.....fps on computers just to hard to set up ur controls and then there are tons of hacks that get in the games , I prefer my comp for mmos and strat games and fps and sports on the console
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
The people changed yes, but he does not need to change. Back in the days of UO, EQ or even AC. The gamer was, not to say smarter, but more of that geeky gamer, not the "currently hip" crowd. Back when UO was at its hieght people who played it were the same people who played D&D on the weekends with friends in their basements, they understood what it meant to ROLEPLAY, they werent just out to power level and be the first to reach the end game content, or to be the best PvPer. So with the rise of these "simpler" gamers came the rise of the simple MMO for them. Ones that give them that power gamer feel so everyone can feel special instead of those who actually worked in the game. Some people blame WoW for this, I blame EQ, AC, and DAoC for this. For they came out and took away the want or need to roleplay your character by being appealing to the mainstream casual player.
There are still game communities out there like the old UO, but most of us are older, and have less time to dedicate to those ventures.
So much crap, so little quality.
If I am unable to get into a beta for a game, I have nothing to go on other than advertising, marketing and whatever game play footage I can get from the net, if the game appeals to me and I want to check it out further to see if its everything they say it is and check out features that were not as openly advertised, how am I supposed to do that without paying to see for myself?
I could sit back and wait for how ever many months until someone posted footage of it or I could try it out.
if ESO releases like GW2 with a pre purchase, I will pay for it. If it turns out to be less than what I expected, I will leave and not give another cent to them.
It does make a difference, box sales alone recoup the majority of the costings to make and advertise the game but the ongoing transactions are where the majority of the profit is whether it be micro transactions or a subscription fee.
That is a silly example though...
I liked what I saw, I believed it would be a good game, I invested money thinking I would play for the long term but then after a few weeks, I realised, it was not what they said it would be, it has many issues, it was laggy, the PvE was pretty lame and the PvP was poor.
So I took my money and left, cancelled my subscription and will not give them anymore money, like thousands of other players.
They received my initial digital sale but will no longer make any more money from me, which is where the majority of companies make their biggest profit margin, via on going micro transactions and subscriptions.
How were we to know that it would have all those problems and be so much less than what we expected without playing it?
I have even sunk so low as to trying World of Warcraft lol
I forced myself to play the free trial to level 20 and then uninstalled it from my computer and went and took a long shower to get the filth off
I learned from Mortal Online not to do that. I seen from SWTOR that it was going to be a WoW clone with glowbats. Vast majority of gamers out there today have the game shopping mentality of a Chihuahua, or a 6 year old child. Every five minutes, "OH PRETTY SHINY! BUY ME THAT!" or "Its going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!" 1 week after release, "This next game is going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!"
Hell you can go through this VERY website and find at least a thousand forum posts where the date is the first few days if not before the game is released where they say its going to be the best game ever, or the WoW beater, or the next UO.
At this point its become like a game to me to see how many morons will continue to buy games based on the pretty presentation that a company makes at E3 or some other game convention. Hell if you threw a few hundred thousand dollars at Donkey Kong you could make a really cool CGI video presentation that looks nothing like the game with a great story concept that will not be in the game, that will lure millions of idiots to buy it.
P.T. Barnum - "There's a sucker born every minute."
So much crap, so little quality.
I see what you mean and I would usually agree but I am far from one of those "Oh shiny, buy it now" kind of guys.
I like to experience things for myself, rather than listen to someone else's interpretation of something, take TERA for example, I wanted to try out the combat system, I am a hardcore gamer and love raiding, grinding, using skill to over come challenges and obstacles, TERAs combat system looked half decent even in game play videos but there was no way I could tell if I would like it without playing for myself to see how it handled and felt to me as a gamer.
If TERA had a free trial when it was launched, I would of used that to test it but since it didn't, I had no way of knowing without paying.
I wish all games launched with a 7 day trial but I can't see that happening as we would all realise we don't want to spend money on their games and leave, then they wouldn't be able to cover the cost of making the game in the first place and probably go broke.
I am far from a sucker but I get your point
That is a silly example though...
I liked what I saw, I believed it would be a good game, I invested money thinking I would play for the long term but then after a few weeks, I realised, it was not what they said it would be, it has many issues, it was laggy, the PvE was pretty lame and the PvP was poor.
So I took my money and left, cancelled my subscription and will not give them anymore money, like thousands of other players.
They received my initial digital sale but will no longer make any more money from me, which is where the majority of companies make their biggest profit margin, via on going micro transactions and subscriptions.
How were we to know that it would have all those problems and be so much less than what we expected without playing it?
I learned from Mortal Online not to do that. I seen from SWTOR that it was going to be a WoW clone with glowbats. Vast majority of gamers out there today have the game shopping mentality of a Chihuahua, or a 6 year old child. Every five minutes, "OH PRETTY SHINY! BUY ME THAT!" or "Its going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!" 1 week after release, "This next game is going to be the BEST GAME EVAH!"
Hell you can go through this VERY website and find at least a thousand forum posts where the date is the first few days if not before the game is released where they say its going to be the best game ever, or the WoW beater, or the next UO.
At this point its become like a game to me to see how many morons will continue to buy games based on the pretty presentation that a company makes at E3 or some other game convention. Hell if you threw a few hundred thousand dollars at Donkey Kong you could make a really cool CGI video presentation that looks nothing like the game with a great story concept that will not be in the game, that will lure millions of idiots to buy it.
P.T. Barnum - "There's a sucker born every minute."
I see what you mean and I would usually agree but I am far from one of those "Oh shiny, buy it now" kind of guys.
I like to experience things for myself, rather than listen to someone else's interpretation of something, take TERA for example, I wanted to try out the combat system, I am a hardcore gamer and love raiding, grinding, using skill to over come challenges and obstacles, TERAs combat system looked half decent even in game play videos but there was no way I could tell if I would like it without playing for myself to see how it handled and felt to me as a gamer.
If TERA had a free trial when it was launched, I would of used that to test it but since it didn't, I had no way of knowing without paying.
I wish all games launched with a 7 day trial but I can't see that happening as we would all realise we don't want to spend money on their games and leave, then they wouldn't be able to cover the cost of making the game in the first place and probably go broke.
I am far from a sucker but I get your point
I don't know why you keep trying to jump through hoops. Both Tera and SWTOR had closed and open beta invites.Miserable because of entertainment? I can't help but LOL.
The point of entertainment is to make you feel good & have fun. If it is miserable to you, do something else. There are plenty of fun stuff out there.
I *only* play games that are fun .. preferably free.
The problem is, he does need to change. The gaming marketplace changed. The games changed due to the demands of the marketplace. The games he liked, the gameplay he liked, is gone and is never coming back in any meaningful way. Therefore, he either needs to adapt his preferences to the new reality and play the games that exist, or he needs to change his hobby and go find something else to do.
Or he can do what most people here on MMORPG.com do and sit around whining about how everyone owes them a game. Of course, that goes nowhere so we'll just disregard it.
Reality is what is. This is the state of MMOs. Take it or leave it.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I don't care if they're free, but yes, only play games that are fun. If you can't find a game that's fun, go find something else to do.
It's really sad how many people have done nothing but play MMOs all their lives and if MMOs go away, they have no other interests.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None