It isn't a "why X game will fail/succueed" thread. This thread primarily deals with the fact that GW2 is not worth the hype it's generating, but it will be a good measure of the B2P model as a whole. Also, to bring fans down to less hype controlled levels .
Fact? You seem to be confusing opinion with fact. Your opinion is that it isn't worth the hype, my opinion, based on my personal experiences, is that it exceeds the hype. You're entitled to your own opinion. You're not entitled to your own set of facts.
I am entitled to my opinion, true.However, from all of my past experiences with how developers like to dress things up to sell, and tend to hide things they'd rather not I can pull facts from information released by a company.
Fact: It will not be "The Best MMO Ever Created" contrary to what many fans seem to think. Maybe for them, but not for the industry.
Fact: It will not "Change the Market" in terms of how P2P is generally accepted contrary to MANY fan posts i've seen on these forums.
Fact: You're confusing your own opinions as fact in and of themselves.
I'm honestly being straight forward here. Sometimes you just have to call something what it is, and let other people take it how they will. I'm not one to sugar coat things or bow to what the masses seem to almost ooze in "Opinion". I've had this discussion time after time, and i imagine it won't be the last.
However much YOU personally believe the hype for GW2 to be worth is not what the industry as a whole perceives. It will be a success, but only for the fans of the GuildWars series. Also, taking short phrases like "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" and saying it's completely false is ALSO a pure opinion because you're taking it at face value thinking I meant that 100% without giving any real points behind it. I still hold that opinion of mine to be true, fact...certainly not.
Please stop derailing my thread, thank you !
Your experiences with other developers are irrelevant. ArenaNet is a different developer. They are not all the same.
"Fact: You're confusing your own opinions as fact in and of themselves." Please elaborate. Specific examples would be nice. Anything I present as fact I do so based on it actually existing in game. Opinion is based on my perception of things. Marked difference. For example... "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" is not an opinion, it's observable fact. Aside from the fact that you can't give steroids to a computer program, they're completely different styles of games that basically only share the land and the lore.
Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
I am entitled to my opinion, true.However, from all of my past experiences with how developers like to dress things up to sell, and tend to hide things they'd rather not I can pull facts from information released by a company.
Fact: It will not be "The Best MMO Ever Created" contrary to what many fans seem to think. Maybe for them, but not for the industry.
Fact: It will not "Change the Market" in terms of how P2P is generally accepted contrary to MANY fan posts i've seen on these forums.
Fact: You're confusing your own opinions as fact in and of themselves.
I'm honestly being straight forward here. Sometimes you just have to call something what it is, and let other people take it how they will. I'm not one to sugar coat things or bow to what the masses seem to almost ooze in "Opinion". I've had this discussion time after time, and i imagine it won't be the last.
However much YOU personally believe the hype for GW2 to be worth is not what the industry as a whole perceives. It will be a success, but only for the fans of the GuildWars series. Also, taking short phrases like "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" and saying it's completely false is ALSO a pure opinion because you're taking it at face value thinking I meant that 100% without giving any real points behind it. I still hold that opinion of mine to be true, fact...certainly not.
Please stop derailing my thread, thank you !
Whoa, this made me pause a bit... I seldom saw such circular logic since bad James Joyce's seminars.
What I saw as fact there is:
1 - You do not speak for the gaming industry. Don't even try.
2 - You are not qualified to establish how GW2 will measure up to other MMOs, thus far.
3 - You cannot affirm that it won't change the market, just like I can't say it will.
My opinions are:
1 - You do see yourself as some sort of visionary that wants to show poor sheep the error of their ways. It's hard to take you seriously when you sell yourself like that.
2 - You really DO think your opinions are facts, but you have a very low tolerance when others do the same... which is kinda strange, to say the least.
3 - You have a very peculiar view about the MMO industry, and you have almost no understanding on GW2, which makes your opinion quite on the moot side.
Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
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I've played GW1, and I've played GW2. I've seen it all before, and GW2 personally doesn't impress me. Does that mean it's a bad product? Certainly not...
However, GW2 IS simply GW1 on steriods in that the overall aspect of GW1 is seen all throughout GW2, and GW2 was made for the fans of GW1 which again is a good things. Is it fact, again, certainly not.That was a comment in passing that was an opinion based on past experiences meant to broadly express how similar GW2 is to GW1, but you took it at face value in order to attack my points with....bad form on your part.
[mod edit]
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
Again, you've taken what i've said out of context.
Where did I say the CODE was "copy & paste" from GW1? "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" isn't a negative comment, and was an opinion meant to broadly express what GW2 is in a nutshell, meant for the fans.
What i said wasn't totally wrong, Korrigan simply wanted to find something small to nittpick about and draw a huge fuss over. Read my response to him for a full explanation.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Actually I ignore posts that are purely for trolling, and not actually trying to put up a reasonable discussion. This post you've made, this time, however isn't a troll so I'll open a forum with you.
I've played GW1, and I've played GW2. I've seen it all before, and GW2 personally doesn't impress me. Does that mean it's a bad product? Certainly not...
However, GW2 IS simply GW1 on steriods in that the overall aspect of GW1 is seen all throughout GW2, and GW2 was made for the fans of GW1 which again is a good things. Is it fact, again, certainly not.That was a comment in passing that was an opinion based on past experiences meant to broadly express how similar GW2 is to GW1, but you took it at face value in order to attack my points with....bad form on your part.
Nothing you've posted so far, prior to this one, has been something I wanted to respond to simply because I didn't feel I'd get a respectable response from you.
Pick one: you played GW1 OR GW2, you can't have played both and say that. Which aspect of GW1 do you see in GW2?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
It isn't a "why X game will fail/succueed" thread. This thread primarily deals with the fact that GW2 is not worth the hype it's generating, but it will be a good measure of the B2P model as a whole. Also, to bring fans down to less hype controlled levels .
Anticipation and excitement are not the same as hype.
The word "hype" means that public expectations due to promised features (including design features) outweigh reality, ergo, it is impossible for any game to ever be worth its hype, because hype is always a lie.
That said, you are erroneously referring to the average level of GW2 anticipation as "hype," when it is not.
Several hundred thousand people have played in the beta weekend events and found that said features work as advertised, justifying their excitement.
Therefore, GW2 is generating a large amount of anticipation and excitement, but very little hype, as the promised features do not outweigh reality.
...This also means you have several hundred thousand people who disagree with you.
Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
Again, you've taken what i've said out of context.
Where did I say the CODE was "copy & paste" from GW1? "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" isn't a negative comment, and was an opinion meant to broadly express what GW2 is in a nutshell, meant for the fans.
What i said wasn't totally wrong, Korrigan simply wanted to find something small to nittpick about and draw a huge fuss over. Read my response to him for a full explanation.
Uhm actually no, now you are backtracking, first you claimed you were posting nothing but facts, now that people have pointed out how wrong you are and how you need to do more research into the facts and to learn the differences between the two you claim you have now just been posting opinions. You are contradicting yourself.
Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
Again, you've taken what i've said out of context.
Where did I say the CODE was "copy & paste" from GW1? "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" isn't a negative comment, and was an opinion meant to broadly express what GW2 is in a nutshell, meant for the fans.
What i said wasn't totally wrong, Korrigan simply wanted to find something small to nittpick about and draw a huge fuss over. Read my response to him for a full explanation.
Yes it was. You're comparing a CORPG, heavily instanced, with an open world MMORPG with an entirely different combat system, PvE content presentation, PvP style, etc. It's like saying WoW is Warcraft III on steroids.
Not according to the market. An opinion is subjective. Those lines are objective based on market trends. That means they're facts because they have no credible sources to back the contrary.
In other words, the market currently shows a trend AGAINST GW2 changing how the market perceives P2P and the game mechanics that GW2 will be employing. It's still a themepark, and new themeparks aren't doing very well currently.
How are these opinions?
So which MMORPGs are doing good?
Sanboxes?
Biggest MMORPG still is a themepark and the next 4 or 5 entries are also themeparks.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think people have an issue with your post mostly because GW1 and GW2 are so completely different. So when you say, "a PROPERLY done fan-oriented successor to GW1," people see it and /boggle.
There is, in my opinion, a much larger potential market for this game than just the GW1 fans. Your whole post is based on the idea that it is like GW1, but the games are so different in everything but name, that your argument just falls flat.
Amusing how the OP constantly ignores the couple of people (including myself) who proved that his whole little speech is about and game he knows nothing about. Not surprising though, I guess we will never know why the OP thinks GW2 is just GW1 on steroids, since it's totally wrong.
I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
Again, you've taken what i've said out of context.
Where did I say the CODE was "copy & paste" from GW1? "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" isn't a negative comment, and was an opinion meant to broadly express what GW2 is in a nutshell, meant for the fans.
What i said wasn't totally wrong, Korrigan simply wanted to find something small to nittpick about and draw a huge fuss over. Read my response to him for a full explanation.
Uhm actually no, now you are backtracking, first you claimed you were posting nothing but facts, now that people have pointed out how wrong you are and how you need to do more research into the facts and to learn the differences between the two you claim you have now just been posting opinions. You are contradicting yourself.
Please post where I said that i'm "Posting nothing but facts". That's nonsensical and is not only impossible, but impractical.
Second, I haven't backtracked once, again please post where I did that compared to a previous statement.
Third, I've done plenty of research. Simply because you disagree with my findings is your own personal problem, but i'm willing to discuss them with you openly.
Fourth, how am I contradicting myself? Broading saying "You're walking the wrong way!" without providing a basis is simply bad form.
Shouting "you're wrong!" all day without providing any real discussion to back it up does nothing for the conversation as a whole.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I've played GW1, and I've played GW2. I've seen it all before, and GW2 personally doesn't impress me. Does that mean it's a bad product? Certainly not...
However, GW2 IS simply GW1 on steriods in that the overall aspect of GW1 is seen all throughout GW2, and GW2 was made for the fans of GW1 which again is a good things. Is it fact, again, certainly not.That was a comment in passing that was an opinion based on past experiences meant to broadly express how similar GW2 is to GW1, but you took it at face value in order to attack my points with....bad form on your part.
I removed the forum rule breaking parts of your post, and will only answer to the actual "arguments".
Don't be surprised if people don't take you seriously which such... "opinions". It's obvious to anyone who played both games that GW2 has very little in common with GW1 except the world and the setting. The gameplay is totally different, it's a real MMORPG and not a lobby game, the combat is totally different. GW2 is about as different from GW1 than Diablo is different from World of Warcraft.
You are wrong. That happens to the best. Eventually.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
It isn't a "why X game will fail/succueed" thread. This thread primarily deals with the fact that GW2 is not worth the hype it's generating, but it will be a good measure of the B2P model as a whole. Also, to bring fans down to less hype controlled levels .
Anticipation and excitement are not the same as hype.
The word "hype" means that public expectations due to promised features (including design features) outweigh reality, ergo, it is impossible for any game to ever be worth its hype, because hype is always a lie.
That said, you are erroneously referring to the average level of GW2 anticipation as "hype," when it is not.
Several hundred thousand people have played in the beta weekend events and found that said features work as advertised, justifying their excitement.
Therefore, GW2 is generating a large amount of anticipation and excitement, but very little hype, as the promised features do not outweigh reality.
...This also means you have several hundred thousand people who disagree with you.
Finally 1 more man who understands meaning of words. STOP using "Hype".
Take a look at SWTOR. The only measurable form of success for modern MMOs is their retention rate of subscribers. However, GW2 really has no measurable way to see how successful they are. It is a Buy-To-Play and if we were measuring box sales as a form of success than SWTOR, AOC, Aion, TERA, and Diablo III (albeit not an MMO) are all true successes in the market, but the reality is that's not how we measure success!
So right now the market prediction is 1.2 to 1.5 million box sales. Cool, a reasonable expectation considering GW1 had a decent following, and given the fact that GW2 is nothing but GW1 on steroids that's a completely acceptable expectation. However, do NOT make the mistake in thinking that GW2 will "change the industry" in terms of gameplay, world design, etc. GW2 is a specific fanbase, and is still a themepark MMO. We won't see major waves out of GW2 for any other noticable benefit other than B2P + CashShop cosmetic cash shop (even though buying experience bonuses is NOT cosmetic) being more popular for MMOs to use. Not a bad thing, but still not the best.
SWTOR was predicted as "the game changer", and even got the same amount of hype threads as GW2 is getting about how amazing it will be. It won't be that amazing, but if you're excited for it just realize that there are quite a few more who are using it as a simple time waster for other games to come out (the general admission I seem to get from people IRL).
Game Changer, Best MMO Ever, Best MMO Ever Made, Most Successful MMO? Certainly none of these, but successful as a PROPERLY done fan-oriented successor to GW1? Absolutely!
Gotta say, I won't be playing GW2, but it's about damn time developers properly did a sequel of an original that is actually meant for the fans of the original product.
/PeacefulBow
Holy cow, are you crazy!?
Do you know what they do to people that dare even THINK ill of this game? Contact the FBI or something, you need some witness protection!
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.
Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?
I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.
Oh ok. By bad, sorry. But that's what i'm trying to say. SWTOR sold 2 million the insane production cost was also a very bad factor i know), but it's dropping subs as we speak, which is always bad.
Also, an even greater problem mmos face is the "new, shinny" going away. Next year TESO is coming out, and if it's goo, it's going to be a shinny new game never before tried against an expansion from a 1 year old game.
Many factors play it things.
I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if GW2 has a budget very similar to SWTOR, but it being the flower child on this forum, no one ever questions or wonders about it.
Originally posted by FadedbombIt isn't a "why X game will fail/succueed" thread. This thread primarily deals with the fact that GW2 is not worth the hype it's generating, but it will be a good measure of the B2P model as a whole. Also, to bring fans down to less hype controlled levels .
Anticipation and excitement are not the same as hype.
The word "hype" means that public expectations due to promised features (including design features) outweigh reality, ergo, it is impossible for any game to ever be worth its hype, because hype is always a lie.
That said, you are erroneously referring to the average level of GW2 anticipation as "hype," when it is not.
Several hundred thousand people have played in the beta weekend events and found that said features work as advertised, justifying their excitement.
Therefore, GW2 is generating a large amount of anticipation and excitement, but very little hype, as the promised features do not outweigh reality.
...This also means you have several hundred thousand people who disagree with you.
There is so little common sense on these forums, and when I see a post like this, trying to break through the monotony of stupidity that dominates most posts, I suddenly become all emotional. Q - Q
Accounts created means nothing, but again it backs up my point that there is a good populace who tried the game and liked it. Obviously more than 50% of those numbers didn't like the game as you see an obviously slow down around Septemper of 07. So given those numbers we're thinking what, a 3million strong potential gauranteed fanbase?
Again, a box sales success, but not a Game Changer as many seem to think it is . Simply a well done product meant for the fans of the original, and that's a good thing.
First of all, interesting thread but after further reading, your point just '' faded '' and few more comment from u were enough for me to see that you have no point at all, with all respect to your opinion of course. I am not saying that because I believe that GW2 will be an mmo-changer nor because I think GW2 is the best mmo in the world but because I don´t see '' why '' you think that this will never happen.
First, you talked about the B2P and that sales doesn´t mean everything. I agree, but all that may mean much in the future if the game turn out to be good. You can´t compare this game with WoW or TOR by checking subs because there is nothing like that in GW2. However, you can compare the '' player-base '', accounts-created and '' active players by day/week/month etc. nd there´s a big chance that GW2 will pawn all these game and may become the most famous game of all time, because this '' title '' doesn´t need P2P to be gained.
Now don´t get me worng, I don´t say that GW2 will '' do '' anything. However, it can do much, in my opinion as I have worked in the mmo-industry and kinda know the situation there. There is a chance but nothing is sure. If GW2 '' want '' to be the best, it will reach that through the gameplay etc, nd the B2P thingy will not matter here. From all the videos we have seen and the betas we have played, GW2 is still another fantasy mmorpg, however it had already changed many rules of the mmo-world, trying to reach the '' MMO-RPG formula '' everyone is searching for. If you have ever played MMO-games and really think that these are '' MMORPGs '', u prob don´t know anything about the genre. The MMORPG industry took the wrong directon from the start, nd just few years were enough for ppl to forget what MMORPGs really are. The open world where u can explore and chosose ur own way of '' living '', working, fighting and having fun. MMORPGs were made to be a kind of another '' real '' world, not grind fests where the single player mode is ur first and most attractive choice. U may think that games like TSW is more special than GW2, however that´s just '' looking at the skin '' thingy that most ppl do. ( PS: I am a fan of TSW, so don´t get me wrong. I love the game, I just think that GW2 changed more and desereve to be more special )
Simply, Anet are trying to create a new path for the mmo-genre. A path that GW2 will lead until another revolution come to Beat this title. If we talk about population, if GW2 does it right, it may trun out to be the world´s highest populated game. However there is much to do to reach that point, really much to do, but GW2 is in the right position. What I mean here is simply '' There is a chance for GW2 to blow up the mmo-industry, but there´s also a chance that GW2 will blow itself, destroying its name ''.
I also wanted to say something about ur comment above. GW1 didn´t lose its popularity because ppl didn´t like it, but because Anet stopped the developement at 2007. They said officially that they can´t complete the work on GW1 because GW2 is on the way and they are fully busy with it. So GW was great, really great and with high population though it wasn´t that perfect game nd wasn´t even an mmorpg. The impressive thing is that thousends are still playing RIGHT NOW, though the company stopped developing '' 5 '' years ago.
And in case you missed it OP, P2P game sell boxes. They most of their investement back like any B2P would. The difference is, the P2P keeps gettin money after that, which is usually more usefull.
Which is my entire point, or did you NOT read my thread as your post seems to indicate?
I pointed out that P2P games also do box sales, but GW2 is ONLY doing box sales which in itself is not a measure of pure success. However, people will still shout "SUCCESS!" simply because it's B2P, but that isn't true simply because they're planning to milk GW2 with cash-shops as their form of subscriptions.
Oh ok. By bad, sorry. But that's what i'm trying to say. SWTOR sold 2 million the insane production cost was also a very bad factor i know), but it's dropping subs as we speak, which is always bad.
Also, an even greater problem mmos face is the "new, shinny" going away. Next year TESO is coming out, and if it's goo, it's going to be a shinny new game never before tried against an expansion from a 1 year old game.
Many factors play it things.
I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if GW2 has a budget very similar to SWTOR, but it being the flower child on this forum, no one ever questions or wonders about it.
because no one has to, since Anet has been completely forthcoming on every front about their game title. BWEA was not and that's why people got burned.
Actually I ignore posts that are purely for trolling, and not actually trying to put up a reasonable discussion. This post you've made, this time, however isn't a troll so I'll open a forum with you.
I've played GW1, and I've played GW2. I've seen it all before, and GW2 personally doesn't impress me. Does that mean it's a bad product? Certainly not...
However, GW2 IS simply GW1 on steriods in that the overall aspect of GW1 is seen all throughout GW2, and GW2 was made for the fans of GW1 which again is a good things. Is it fact, again, certainly not.That was a comment in passing that was an opinion based on past experiences meant to broadly express how similar GW2 is to GW1, but you took it at face value in order to attack my points with....bad form on your part.
Nothing you've posted so far, prior to this one, has been something I wanted to respond to simply because I didn't feel I'd get a respectable response from you.
Pick one: you played GW1 OR GW2, you can't have played both and say that. Which aspect of GW1 do you see in GW2?
Maybe he's talking about the lore? Kind of a mute point seeing as it's a sequel though.
Suppose some of the classes have similarly named skills too, but again not an overwhelming similarity to fob it off as just GW1 on steroids. What does that even mean? It's bigger and stronger?
I too am struggling to understand why he thinks that though. Maybe faded should define what he deems the 'aspect' of GW1.
The Art Style for armor & characters is almost identicle to GW1, just with higher detailed textures & graphics.
The overall gameplay for GW1 was extremely linear. You went from Point A to Point B VERY clearly (following a path essentially). In GW2 it's the same way only it's hidden better, but it's still there. You stll go from Point A (starter zone) to points B, C, D, and E via leveling and advancing. This is classic themepark design, and still remains true from GW1. It's hard to explain if you haven't played both. The comparisons are easily made. If you think zones being larger & more open with more players interacting with each other makes the game LESS like GW1 you're wrong as that's simply a technology upgrade. It doesn't change the flow of the product.
The gear & class systems obviously changed so that everyone now has a heal, but that doesn't change what GuildWars as a whole actually is as you're only modifying how classes interact with each other (ie: no longer being defined as "Tank, Healer, DPS" purely based on class). Does that mean it changes what GuildWars is? Nope, but it is a good try and trying to redefine what the game should be.
Similarly to GW1 like GW2, there's REALLY no End-Game except PvP and some harder dungeons for groups/guilds to do. BOTH GW1 and GW2 have tried to eliminate the "End Game" concept. GW2 is simply doing it better. Does that man they're not similar at all? Obviously not, but further ties them together.
I've been playing MMOs for quite a long time so it's easy for me to see similarities to previous products of different styles entirely AND similar products that have come before.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if GW2 has a budget very similar to SWTOR, but it being the flower child on this forum, no one ever questions or wonders about it.
I am sure many wondered about it, and I think it is safe to say that it didn't cost as much as SWTOR. NCSoft doesn't have this kind of leverage, and I don't think it would invest that much money on a game without a brand-name IP (such as Star Wars) and with a moderately successful prequel.
I'd be surprised if GW2 had half the SWTOR budget.
Comments
Your experiences with other developers are irrelevant. ArenaNet is a different developer. They are not all the same.
"Fact: You're confusing your own opinions as fact in and of themselves." Please elaborate. Specific examples would be nice. Anything I present as fact I do so based on it actually existing in game. Opinion is based on my perception of things. Marked difference. For example... "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" is not an opinion, it's observable fact. Aside from the fact that you can't give steroids to a computer program, they're completely different styles of games that basically only share the land and the lore.
Oderint, dum metuant.
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I was thinking that myself actually. It's a completely new game code , weird how people do these things. And then they wonder why people get so frustrated with these forums because we have "people" posting the same inane nonsense over and over again with evidence to the contrary right before them but they claim it's not there just because they choose not to see it.
Whoa, this made me pause a bit... I seldom saw such circular logic since bad James Joyce's seminars.
What I saw as fact there is:
1 - You do not speak for the gaming industry. Don't even try.
2 - You are not qualified to establish how GW2 will measure up to other MMOs, thus far.
3 - You cannot affirm that it won't change the market, just like I can't say it will.
My opinions are:
1 - You do see yourself as some sort of visionary that wants to show poor sheep the error of their ways. It's hard to take you seriously when you sell yourself like that.
2 - You really DO think your opinions are facts, but you have a very low tolerance when others do the same... which is kinda strange, to say the least.
3 - You have a very peculiar view about the MMO industry, and you have almost no understanding on GW2, which makes your opinion quite on the moot side.
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I've played GW1, and I've played GW2. I've seen it all before, and GW2 personally doesn't impress me. Does that mean it's a bad product? Certainly not...
However, GW2 IS simply GW1 on steriods in that the overall aspect of GW1 is seen all throughout GW2, and GW2 was made for the fans of GW1 which again is a good things. Is it fact, again, certainly not. That was a comment in passing that was an opinion based on past experiences meant to broadly express how similar GW2 is to GW1, but you took it at face value in order to attack my points with....bad form on your part.
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The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Again, you've taken what i've said out of context.
Where did I say the CODE was "copy & paste" from GW1? "GW2 is GW1 on steroids" isn't a negative comment, and was an opinion meant to broadly express what GW2 is in a nutshell, meant for the fans.
What i said wasn't totally wrong, Korrigan simply wanted to find something small to nittpick about and draw a huge fuss over. Read my response to him for a full explanation.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Pick one: you played GW1 OR GW2, you can't have played both and say that. Which aspect of GW1 do you see in GW2?
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Anticipation and excitement are not the same as hype.
The word "hype" means that public expectations due to promised features (including design features) outweigh reality, ergo, it is impossible for any game to ever be worth its hype, because hype is always a lie.
That said, you are erroneously referring to the average level of GW2 anticipation as "hype," when it is not.
Several hundred thousand people have played in the beta weekend events and found that said features work as advertised, justifying their excitement.
Therefore, GW2 is generating a large amount of anticipation and excitement, but very little hype, as the promised features do not outweigh reality.
...This also means you have several hundred thousand people who disagree with you.
Uhm actually no, now you are backtracking, first you claimed you were posting nothing but facts, now that people have pointed out how wrong you are and how you need to do more research into the facts and to learn the differences between the two you claim you have now just been posting opinions. You are contradicting yourself.
One more "Hype" thread Realy????
Dont care
Haters gonna hate Players gonna play
PLay anygame you love OP dont make topics about games you dont wanna play its just stupid.
Yes it was. You're comparing a CORPG, heavily instanced, with an open world MMORPG with an entirely different combat system, PvE content presentation, PvP style, etc. It's like saying WoW is Warcraft III on steroids.
Oderint, dum metuant.
So which MMORPGs are doing good?
Sanboxes?
Biggest MMORPG still is a themepark and the next 4 or 5 entries are also themeparks.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think people have an issue with your post mostly because GW1 and GW2 are so completely different. So when you say, "a PROPERLY done fan-oriented successor to GW1," people see it and /boggle.
There is, in my opinion, a much larger potential market for this game than just the GW1 fans. Your whole post is based on the idea that it is like GW1, but the games are so different in everything but name, that your argument just falls flat.
Please post where I said that i'm "Posting nothing but facts". That's nonsensical and is not only impossible, but impractical.
Second, I haven't backtracked once, again please post where I did that compared to a previous statement.
Third, I've done plenty of research. Simply because you disagree with my findings is your own personal problem, but i'm willing to discuss them with you openly.
Fourth, how am I contradicting myself? Broading saying "You're walking the wrong way!" without providing a basis is simply bad form.
Shouting "you're wrong!" all day without providing any real discussion to back it up does nothing for the conversation as a whole.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I removed the forum rule breaking parts of your post, and will only answer to the actual "arguments".
Don't be surprised if people don't take you seriously which such... "opinions". It's obvious to anyone who played both games that GW2 has very little in common with GW1 except the world and the setting. The gameplay is totally different, it's a real MMORPG and not a lobby game, the combat is totally different. GW2 is about as different from GW1 than Diablo is different from World of Warcraft.
You are wrong. That happens to the best. Eventually.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Finally 1 more man who understands meaning of words. STOP using "Hype".
Holy cow, are you crazy!?
Do you know what they do to people that dare even THINK ill of this game? Contact the FBI or something, you need some witness protection!
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if GW2 has a budget very similar to SWTOR, but it being the flower child on this forum, no one ever questions or wonders about it.
There is so little common sense on these forums, and when I see a post like this, trying to break through the monotony of stupidity that dominates most posts, I suddenly become all emotional.
Q - Q
First of all, interesting thread but after further reading, your point just '' faded '' and few more comment from u were enough for me to see that you have no point at all, with all respect to your opinion of course. I am not saying that because I believe that GW2 will be an mmo-changer nor because I think GW2 is the best mmo in the world but because I don´t see '' why '' you think that this will never happen.
First, you talked about the B2P and that sales doesn´t mean everything. I agree, but all that may mean much in the future if the game turn out to be good. You can´t compare this game with WoW or TOR by checking subs because there is nothing like that in GW2. However, you can compare the '' player-base '', accounts-created and '' active players by day/week/month etc. nd there´s a big chance that GW2 will pawn all these game and may become the most famous game of all time, because this '' title '' doesn´t need P2P to be gained.
Now don´t get me worng, I don´t say that GW2 will '' do '' anything. However, it can do much, in my opinion as I have worked in the mmo-industry and kinda know the situation there. There is a chance but nothing is sure. If GW2 '' want '' to be the best, it will reach that through the gameplay etc, nd the B2P thingy will not matter here. From all the videos we have seen and the betas we have played, GW2 is still another fantasy mmorpg, however it had already changed many rules of the mmo-world, trying to reach the '' MMO-RPG formula '' everyone is searching for. If you have ever played MMO-games and really think that these are '' MMORPGs '', u prob don´t know anything about the genre. The MMORPG industry took the wrong directon from the start, nd just few years were enough for ppl to forget what MMORPGs really are. The open world where u can explore and chosose ur own way of '' living '', working, fighting and having fun. MMORPGs were made to be a kind of another '' real '' world, not grind fests where the single player mode is ur first and most attractive choice. U may think that games like TSW is more special than GW2, however that´s just '' looking at the skin '' thingy that most ppl do. ( PS: I am a fan of TSW, so don´t get me wrong. I love the game, I just think that GW2 changed more and desereve to be more special )
Simply, Anet are trying to create a new path for the mmo-genre. A path that GW2 will lead until another revolution come to Beat this title. If we talk about population, if GW2 does it right, it may trun out to be the world´s highest populated game. However there is much to do to reach that point, really much to do, but GW2 is in the right position. What I mean here is simply '' There is a chance for GW2 to blow up the mmo-industry, but there´s also a chance that GW2 will blow itself, destroying its name ''.
I also wanted to say something about ur comment above. GW1 didn´t lose its popularity because ppl didn´t like it, but because Anet stopped the developement at 2007. They said officially that they can´t complete the work on GW1 because GW2 is on the way and they are fully busy with it. So GW was great, really great and with high population though it wasn´t that perfect game nd wasn´t even an mmorpg. The impressive thing is that thousends are still playing RIGHT NOW, though the company stopped developing '' 5 '' years ago.
Good Luck
because no one has to, since Anet has been completely forthcoming on every front about their game title. BWEA was not and that's why people got burned.
The Art Style for armor & characters is almost identicle to GW1, just with higher detailed textures & graphics.
The overall gameplay for GW1 was extremely linear. You went from Point A to Point B VERY clearly (following a path essentially). In GW2 it's the same way only it's hidden better, but it's still there. You stll go from Point A (starter zone) to points B, C, D, and E via leveling and advancing. This is classic themepark design, and still remains true from GW1. It's hard to explain if you haven't played both. The comparisons are easily made. If you think zones being larger & more open with more players interacting with each other makes the game LESS like GW1 you're wrong as that's simply a technology upgrade. It doesn't change the flow of the product.
The gear & class systems obviously changed so that everyone now has a heal, but that doesn't change what GuildWars as a whole actually is as you're only modifying how classes interact with each other (ie: no longer being defined as "Tank, Healer, DPS" purely based on class). Does that mean it changes what GuildWars is? Nope, but it is a good try and trying to redefine what the game should be.
Similarly to GW1 like GW2, there's REALLY no End-Game except PvP and some harder dungeons for groups/guilds to do. BOTH GW1 and GW2 have tried to eliminate the "End Game" concept. GW2 is simply doing it better. Does that man they're not similar at all? Obviously not, but further ties them together.
I've been playing MMOs for quite a long time so it's easy for me to see similarities to previous products of different styles entirely AND similar products that have come before.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I am sure many wondered about it, and I think it is safe to say that it didn't cost as much as SWTOR. NCSoft doesn't have this kind of leverage, and I don't think it would invest that much money on a game without a brand-name IP (such as Star Wars) and with a moderately successful prequel.
I'd be surprised if GW2 had half the SWTOR budget.