This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.
Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.
However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.
Are you joking? You cannot be for real- If you are I appologize and respect your opinion BUT thats a statement I find suspect. How many MMOs have you played?
I am not discounting your opinion if you really feel this way- We all have different tastes but...
I agree with him and completely disagree with you, guess that makes you the delusional one, huh?
Nobody said anything about delusional-
Dude said hes 50 years old and this is rthe greatest game he has ever played- I asked if he was serious? Games a failure in my eyes and most other peoples - If that weere not the case then we wouldnt be having discussions each week about server merges and layoffs.
Games not a trainwreck (never said that)- But to equate it to the greatest game ever made is a very odd statement IMHO- Game is horrible IMO.
Anyone who knows the history of EA and the recent changes at the top sees what's happening - they are in the midst of washing their hands of TOR and moving on and spending as little more as possible while doing it. They want out ASAP.
Anyone who knows the history of EA and the recent changes at the top sees what's happening - they are in the midst of washing their hands of TOR and moving on and spending as little more as possible while doing it. They want out ASAP.
Normally I think people who make statements like yours are just paranoid - Now, I am not so sure- looks kinda odd huh?
Your "imho" does not substitute for objective judgement so your point is very moot as much as "failure in your eyes" does not make the game failure.
I guess that is where delusions come in...
Faiulre is mergeing servers and firing staff- No opinion... Did servers go from a ton to a few? Did staff get laid off? Is the game doing well? Thats failure. MY OPINION ios the game sucks- The FACT is its a failure (even good things fail- but in this case it sucks and is failing)
Normally I think people who make statements like yours are just paranoid - Now, I am not so sure- looks kinda odd huh?
Well, the normal proceedure when you've given up on a game is to wash your hands and sell it to SOE.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Normally I think people who make statements like yours are just paranoid - Now, I am not so sure- looks kinda odd huh?
Considering your recent posts, I do not find it odd at all, that also sums up my reply to your post above...
Which recent post(s) would those be? We are discussing a FAILED game which has spent an estimated 300 million and has closed 75% of its servers within six months... But humor me- Since I post about pretty much every game and every topic I find interesting (in this case the FAILURE of an overhyped game) what do you mean.
But back to the game- You never answered my question- Is success merging servers and firing staff so early on? Not to me- My opinion (as stated) s this was a poor excuse at a money geab by an incompetent company known forterrible MMOs- But the Fact is, good or Bad it is failing. Yes or No?
Originally posted by SaintPhilip Is success merging servers and firing staff so early on?
There is nothing odd about server merges and lays off. It is a reasonable, expected and common practice.
When you launch a game, you will experience a high influx of players therefore you need server capacity largely exceeding what normalized traffic would be when your retention rate have enough time to kick in and stabilize user numbers.
Same goes for lays off. There is no need to have a full development team you got through your game development period.
If you consider taking 2nd largest piece of western MMO market share to be a failure, you indeed talk about delusions...
Is success merging servers and firing staff so early on?
There is nothing odd about server merges and lays off. It is a reasonable, expected and common practice.
When you launch a game, you will experience a high influx of players therefore you need server capacity largely exceeding what normalized traffic would be when your retention rate have enough time to kick in and stabilize user numbers.
Same goes for lays off. There is no need to have a full development team you got through your game development period.
If you consider taking 2nd largest piece of western MMO market share to be a failure, you indeed talk about delusions...
You keep throwing that word around...Delusion .
You also make it sound so normal- Yes, servers will merge and people will be laid off... BUT not the amounts we are talking about...A few servers, sure, 75% of them- In 6 months!!!!! Now layoffs.
And the second biggest MMO blah, blah- It was the first most exensive AND has the Star WWars IP so yes, box sales were very high- Retention rates however (this IS an MMO and not a single player game) are what matters- Right now they are in emergency recovery OH SHIT mode (and I think youknow this)- Everything is NOT fine and this game is failing worse than Coopercab at a strip club.
This is going to go down in history as the biggest MMO flop in HISTORY (based on the money spent and IP alone) and will be free to play by christmas (probably much sooner)-
Wheres the good news about this game- Been nothing but bad since launch except for some die hards ... BUt okay, you know better- Jusat like EA knew better what players wanted "simple game", "No complexity", "people dont like more than a couple choices", "Leveling should be faster than WOW"- Because that is what they promised and delivered and are FAILING.
no- Its a fact. NOT OPINION. (please understand the difference- I also state when its an opinion) over 75% of the servers are GONE in 6 months... How is that an opinion that this is not a good thing- Ah nevermind.
Your right- SWTOR is doing great- EA just enjoys merging servers and firing people so that it looks like they are failing. Its the new strategy to be #1 and beat WOW by appearing to fail whilst being ubur succesful.
[mod edit]
EDIT: THose quotes were not opinion either (although they were paraphrased) want me to link the interview ?
Normally I think people who make statements like yours are just paranoid - Now, I am not so sure- looks kinda odd huh?
Considering your recent posts, I do not find it odd at all, that also sums up my reply to your post above...
Which recent post(s) would those be? We are discussing a FAILED game which has spent an estimated 300 million and has closed 75% of its servers within six months... But humor me- Since I post about pretty much every game and every topic I find interesting (in this case the FAILURE of an overhyped game) what do you mean.
But back to the game- You never answered my question- Is success merging servers and firing staff so early on? Not to me- My opinion (as stated) s this was a poor excuse at a money geab by an incompetent company known forterrible MMOs- But the Fact is, good or Bad it is failing. Yes or No?
¨the Fail of swtor¨ is just an expression of desire from a hater point of view. the truth is, swtor is the most successful P2P MMO post WoW, in the most Populated P2P MMO but WoW in the west and they keep selling thousands of copies everysingle week, more than any other p2p mmo in the market, but we still find people talking about ¨swtor is a fail¨, ¨the game is dying¨. BW is working in at least 2 more content updates and an level cap expansion for this year, and the new space combat proyect, by the end of the year we will find more people playing swtor than any other p2p MMO but wow in the west, that includes gw2 even when is b2p. swtor a fail, sry but thats just a myth and a desire from a hater point of view.
Same goes for rest of your post, just because it is IMHO does not make it true...
no- Its a fact. NOT OPINION. (please understand the difference- I also state when its an opinion) over 75% of the servers are GONE in 6 months... How is that an opinion that this is not a good thing- Ah nevermind.
Your right- SWTOR is doing great- EA just enjoys merging servers and firing people so that it looks like they are failing. Its the new strategy to be #1 and beat WOW by appearing to fail whilst being ubur succesful.
[mod edit]
Technically speaking the servers are still there and active, however they are ghost towns, nobody is playing on them. Most folks move to the designated servers. We can speculate on the population, somewhere between 500k-700k active players at most down from the 2 million box sales, retion seams to be a huge issue. I have to wonder when they will actually turn those servers off. I have to agree letting staff go is one thing that happens all the time. However firing your top devs, and your cm manager speaks of desperation. I suspect this game will wind up war-hammer, with a steady population although nothing to write home about, and it sure never reached the level of even being a pimple on the backside of blizzard. I am sure the exec's over at Blizzard are in lol mode, saying another one bites the dust.
but we still find people talking about ¨swtor is a fail¨, ¨the game is dying¨
And you can still find first-generation WoW haters still hanging around from 2004. It takes a lot of dedication to hold onto your hate that long.
But doesn't everybody have that special rage-holder spot for bygone games?
(neither affirm nor confirm any other part of your post)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
please understand the difference - I also state when its an opinion
Apparently you are the one not understanding the difference.
75% servers being merged is a fact.
75% servers being merged being too much is an opinion.
So I am asking what is your opinion backed up with? So far it is your IMHO only...which does not make it true, valid nor relevant...
Wow- that means you are running at less than 25% expected caopacity (probably far less) which I guess someone could be of the opinion thats a good thing-
But think of how silly that sounds.
We will see though- Many people called this a yeaar ago and were correct- I guess anyone can make something seem good and break everything down to "opinnion"- Like maybe those people who got fired were really being given the grand opportunity to go on Unemlployment, take a Vacation and find a good career since THIS SHIP IS SINKING.
So yeah- Many ways to look at things I suppose. And blind support helps to make even poision taste sweet.
Same goes for rest of your post, just because it is IMHO does not make it true...
no- Its a fact. NOT OPINION. (please understand the difference- I also state when its an opinion) over 75% of the servers are GONE in 6 months... How is that an opinion that this is not a good thing- Ah nevermind.
Your right- SWTOR is doing great- EA just enjoys merging servers and firing people so that it looks like they are failing. Its the new strategy to be #1 and beat WOW by appearing to fail whilst being ubur succesful.
Cool story bro-
EDIT: THose quotes were not opinion either (although they were paraphrased) want me to link the interview ?
The swtor server cap at launch was really bad and limited, thats probably one of the reason why they opened way too many servers. I remember porth nowhere, one of the most populated PvP servers in the east, with less than 100 players on the fleet, and less than 20-10 on everysingle planet, and that was at launch with queues in everysingle server. the server cap was really small, same with the performance, lot of people quit just because the population problem or rerolled. 6 months later, they find the way and the technology to make ¨superservers¨, now we have 3 or 4 instances with over 200 players on the fleet, per instance, that never happen before not even at launch, and planets with more than 30 players, again never happen before, not even on the most populated servers at launch like i said before. The merge in this case, dont mean less people playing.
Some here seem to be confusing two questions. "Is SWTOR a good game, that people enjoy" and "Is SWTOR a success". They are radically different questions, and one has no bearing on the other.
is it a good game? Views are mixed. But honestly the story elements are quite impressive. Certainly to some peoples tastes. It's good enough to feed a certain degree of support and subscriptions.
But it doesn't matter...
Because the game can never ever be a success at this point. Success has nothing to do with story, or end game, or number of servers, or even much to do with growth or churn. It doesn't matter if it is the best game ever made or the worst abomination ever put forth that makes Horizons seem good. It does not matter. Success all comes down to accounting. And there is no mathematical way that SWTOR can pull off being a succesful game. If you like it great! Fantastic! I hope you are having fun. But I am sorry to tell you, they blew way too much money making the game. They spent more than they could hope to get back in a decade at reasonable subscriber levels. For what they spent they could have purchased a small South American country. And that is the problem. The game is now and will always be a huge sucking hole of red ink on the balance sheets. It's so big that they will keep it going, at least for now, just to try and reduce the losses. But they are not going to throw crazy money at it anymore to try and grow it. That way lies madness.
Originally posted by faefrost The game is now and will always be a huge sucking hole of red ink on the balance sheets. It's so big that they will keep it going, at least for now, just to try and reduce the losses.
Talking about accounting, you do not reduce losses by running in red numbers...so just you know..
The game is now and will always be a huge sucking hole of red ink on the balance sheets. It's so big that they will keep it going, at least for now, just to try and reduce the losses.
Talking about accounting, you do not reduce losses by running in red numbers...so just you know..
They're trying real hard to make SWTOR at least run a profit so that maybe, 6 years from now, MAYBE they'll have broken even.
Comments
Nobody said anything about delusional-
Dude said hes 50 years old and this is rthe greatest game he has ever played- I asked if he was serious? Games a failure in my eyes and most other peoples - If that weere not the case then we wouldnt be having discussions each week about server merges and layoffs.
Games not a trainwreck (never said that)- But to equate it to the greatest game ever made is a very odd statement IMHO- Game is horrible IMO.
[mod edit]
Anyone who knows the history of EA and the recent changes at the top sees what's happening - they are in the midst of washing their hands of TOR and moving on and spending as little more as possible while doing it. They want out ASAP.
Avatars are people too
Warhammer had sold over a million and it had around 300k at the end of the first month.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
Your "imho" does not substitute for objective judgement so your point is very moot as much as "failure in your eyes" does not make the game failure.
I guess that is where delusions come in...
Normally I think people who make statements like yours are just paranoid - Now, I am not so sure- looks kinda odd huh?
Faiulre is mergeing servers and firing staff- No opinion... Did servers go from a ton to a few? Did staff get laid off? Is the game doing well? Thats failure. MY OPINION ios the game sucks- The FACT is its a failure (even good things fail- but in this case it sucks and is failing)
Well, the normal proceedure when you've given up on a game is to wash your hands and sell it to SOE.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
LOL - right.
Which recent post(s) would those be? We are discussing a FAILED game which has spent an estimated 300 million and has closed 75% of its servers within six months... But humor me- Since I post about pretty much every game and every topic I find interesting (in this case the FAILURE of an overhyped game) what do you mean.
But back to the game- You never answered my question- Is success merging servers and firing staff so early on? Not to me- My opinion (as stated) s this was a poor excuse at a money geab by an incompetent company known forterrible MMOs- But the Fact is, good or Bad it is failing. Yes or No?
rofl....so QFT.
BigCountry | Head Hunters | www.wefarmpeople.com
There is nothing odd about server merges and lays off. It is a reasonable, expected and common practice.
When you launch a game, you will experience a high influx of players therefore you need server capacity largely exceeding what normalized traffic would be when your retention rate have enough time to kick in and stabilize user numbers.
Same goes for lays off. There is no need to have a full development team you got through your game development period.
If you consider taking 2nd largest piece of western MMO market share to be a failure, you indeed talk about delusions...
You keep throwing that word around...Delusion .
You also make it sound so normal- Yes, servers will merge and people will be laid off... BUT not the amounts we are talking about...A few servers, sure, 75% of them- In 6 months!!!!! Now layoffs.
And the second biggest MMO blah, blah- It was the first most exensive AND has the Star WWars IP so yes, box sales were very high- Retention rates however (this IS an MMO and not a single player game) are what matters- Right now they are in emergency recovery OH SHIT mode (and I think youknow this)- Everything is NOT fine and this game is failing worse than Coopercab at a strip club.
This is going to go down in history as the biggest MMO flop in HISTORY (based on the money spent and IP alone) and will be free to play by christmas (probably much sooner)-
Wheres the good news about this game- Been nothing but bad since launch except for some die hards ... BUt okay, you know better- Jusat like EA knew better what players wanted "simple game", "No complexity", "people dont like more than a couple choices", "Leveling should be faster than WOW"- Because that is what they promised and delivered and are FAILING.
no- Its a fact. NOT OPINION. (please understand the difference- I also state when its an opinion) over 75% of the servers are GONE in 6 months... How is that an opinion that this is not a good thing- Ah nevermind.
Your right- SWTOR is doing great- EA just enjoys merging servers and firing people so that it looks like they are failing. Its the new strategy to be #1 and beat WOW by appearing to fail whilst being ubur succesful.
[mod edit]
EDIT: THose quotes were not opinion either (although they were paraphrased) want me to link the interview ?
¨the Fail of swtor¨ is just an expression of desire from a hater point of view. the truth is, swtor is the most successful P2P MMO post WoW, in the most Populated P2P MMO but WoW in the west and they keep selling thousands of copies everysingle week, more than any other p2p mmo in the market, but we still find people talking about ¨swtor is a fail¨, ¨the game is dying¨. BW is working in at least 2 more content updates and an level cap expansion for this year, and the new space combat proyect, by the end of the year we will find more people playing swtor than any other p2p MMO but wow in the west, that includes gw2 even when is b2p. swtor a fail, sry but thats just a myth and a desire from a hater point of view.
Apparently you are the one not understanding the difference.
75% servers being merged is a fact.
75% servers being merged being too much is an opinion.
So I am asking what is your opinion backed up with? So far it is your IMHO only...which does not make it true, valid nor relevant...
Again, that is your perception and "IMHO" only.
What one does and what you consider one is doing are not necessarily same things.
Technically speaking the servers are still there and active, however they are ghost towns, nobody is playing on them. Most folks move to the designated servers. We can speculate on the population, somewhere between 500k-700k active players at most down from the 2 million box sales, retion seams to be a huge issue. I have to wonder when they will actually turn those servers off. I have to agree letting staff go is one thing that happens all the time. However firing your top devs, and your cm manager speaks of desperation. I suspect this game will wind up war-hammer, with a steady population although nothing to write home about, and it sure never reached the level of even being a pimple on the backside of blizzard. I am sure the exec's over at Blizzard are in lol mode, saying another one bites the dust.
And you can still find first-generation WoW haters still hanging around from 2004. It takes a lot of dedication to hold onto your hate that long.
But doesn't everybody have that special rage-holder spot for bygone games?
(neither affirm nor confirm any other part of your post)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Wow- that means you are running at less than 25% expected caopacity (probably far less) which I guess someone could be of the opinion thats a good thing-
But think of how silly that sounds.
We will see though- Many people called this a yeaar ago and were correct- I guess anyone can make something seem good and break everything down to "opinnion"- Like maybe those people who got fired were really being given the grand opportunity to go on Unemlployment, take a Vacation and find a good career since THIS SHIP IS SINKING.
So yeah- Many ways to look at things I suppose. And blind support helps to make even poision taste sweet.
Being the less failing game post wow not make it a success...
Is still a fail but with better IP to sustain the attrition by the months.
Close 200 servers and lost more than 60% of playerbase is not a success, not even if you compare it with WAR or AOC.
I'm sorry but be the first of the losers is not be the best of anything.
The swtor server cap at launch was really bad and limited, thats probably one of the reason why they opened way too many servers. I remember porth nowhere, one of the most populated PvP servers in the east, with less than 100 players on the fleet, and less than 20-10 on everysingle planet, and that was at launch with queues in everysingle server. the server cap was really small, same with the performance, lot of people quit just because the population problem or rerolled. 6 months later, they find the way and the technology to make ¨superservers¨, now we have 3 or 4 instances with over 200 players on the fleet, per instance, that never happen before not even at launch, and planets with more than 30 players, again never happen before, not even on the most populated servers at launch like i said before. The merge in this case, dont mean less people playing.
You're right. It happens to every MMO that fails at launch. So the layoffs are right on track.
Successful MMOs merge servers after about 5-6 years. Not at launch.
Some here seem to be confusing two questions. "Is SWTOR a good game, that people enjoy" and "Is SWTOR a success". They are radically different questions, and one has no bearing on the other.
is it a good game? Views are mixed. But honestly the story elements are quite impressive. Certainly to some peoples tastes. It's good enough to feed a certain degree of support and subscriptions.
But it doesn't matter...
Because the game can never ever be a success at this point. Success has nothing to do with story, or end game, or number of servers, or even much to do with growth or churn. It doesn't matter if it is the best game ever made or the worst abomination ever put forth that makes Horizons seem good. It does not matter. Success all comes down to accounting. And there is no mathematical way that SWTOR can pull off being a succesful game. If you like it great! Fantastic! I hope you are having fun. But I am sorry to tell you, they blew way too much money making the game. They spent more than they could hope to get back in a decade at reasonable subscriber levels. For what they spent they could have purchased a small South American country. And that is the problem. The game is now and will always be a huge sucking hole of red ink on the balance sheets. It's so big that they will keep it going, at least for now, just to try and reduce the losses. But they are not going to throw crazy money at it anymore to try and grow it. That way lies madness.
Think of it this way: 1 out of 4 people on trial account will sub to your game.
You still need server capacity to accommodate all 4 users tho. Is it still that far stretched?
No blind support, just a bit of a reason and giving the topic some thought instead of emotions...
Talking about accounting, you do not reduce losses by running in red numbers...so just you know..
They're trying real hard to make SWTOR at least run a profit so that maybe, 6 years from now, MAYBE they'll have broken even.