I don't understand why they can't give the items in the cash shop to players in game for the price of a $15/month subscription. They are literally developing stuff for the cash shop that you can't get to without opening your wallet even though you are paying a monthly sub.
They could have, but.. in general cash shops offer styles and items that would not have entered a game otherwise. Funny enough you even acknowlage that fact.
Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.
.
Really ? So admin staff, customer support staff, developers, technical people and graphic artists are all being paid less now than they were 10 years ago ? That's shocking. 'Tis no wonder modern MMO's all suck.
Maintence, support staff, and bandwidth costs HAVE come down over time, yes. Technology is cheaper, staff have been outsourced to china/india, and bandwidth is pennies now. Things that a sub is "supposed" to pay for have effectively become nearly free. $15/month used to be needed for technology and servers and bandwidth... but that is like 1% of a game's mainenance cost these days.
Game development, and standard customer support.... has always been paid for by box sales. This is how it's worked for every other non-MMORPG game company out there, and it seems to have worked for them.
Non MMO's have like what, 20, 30, maybe 50 hours of content. MMORPG's have anywhere from 100 to perhaps 500 hours of content, so then by your logic in order to pay for their extraordinary development costs a MMORPG should have a box price of like, $250.00?
Since no one will pay that, they expect to recoop some of the development costs (which have jumped from about 10M per title to over 300M if some reports are to be trusted) rewarding those who were willing to risk the investment in the project in the first place.
Another big use of sub fees is to fund not only development of new features in the current game, but also fund the development of the companies future titles, so they don't have to turn to outside investors for funding. CCP is funding two titles, WOD and DUST 514 with the revenues generated from EVE (much to my displeasure, but what can you do?)
It was never about the cost to maintain the servers, that's always a small figure in the overall scheme of things.
And while its true that there is more outsourcing most western MMORPG's seem to keep a much larger portion of their development onshore as opposed to outsourcing it overseas.
And speaking of outsourcing, you have any idea what that really costs? My firm pays an average of $42.00 an hour for contract offshore resources (and we have the economic muscle to really squeeze the prices down from our vendors) which is a good deal compared to the average costs of roughly $87.00 per hour for onshore vendors or employees.
But either way, the bills add up quick especially when you have a large team, TESO seems to have over 250 people working on it, SWTOR and even the recently failed 38 Studios had more on the payroll.
And like I said, seems like most western MMO's use onshore resources more often than not.
Finally, we need to talk about profit. These games are not labors of love, they are profit making entities and the more profit, the better for the people who sponsor them. They don't care if you think what they make is obscene, they take the risks by investing 100M or so, there's no issue reaping the rewards of their successes, as well as their failures.
Feel free to develop your own 'charity' MMORPG.
Finally, someone who "gets" it !
Most people on these forums either don't have the foggiest clue about the production cost and maintenance of software products, or else they are willfully ignoring it.
If MMO developers are "gouging" the players with excessive prices, then they must ALL be making large profits, not so ? Yet, other than Activision Blizzard, they don't report stellar financial results every year. Where are they hiding these massive profits ?
Most people on these forums are in agreement that every MMO launch since WoW has been a resounding failure. Everyone gleefully points out that EA must have taken a large financial hit on SW:TOR.
Yet, when it comes around to paying for boxes or monthly subs, these same companies are accused of being greedy money-grabbing suits who are raking in massive profits by exploiting poor gamers. "They don't need to charge that much".
Now, a company can't be producing games that are huge financial failures AND be making massive profits. So which is it ?
New Trend? Has another mmo asked for a box price and monthly sub, while having a cash shop?
In ftp games that I am aware of, if you sub they give you X amount of their coin.
I do think monthly costs will need to go up. Box prices have. Maybe adding a cash shop is an attempt to avoid asking for an $18 sub. Or maybe its just a money grab.
Tera, Rift, WoW... umm pretty much most all monthly sub games still have cash shops in some shape or form.. well rift isn't really a cash shop per say but you got the mounts you can buy for real money and such so I say it pretty much is
rift and wow did not release with a cash shop.
No, they didn't, but that wasn't what the quoted poster said either. He/she didn't ask "has another mmo launched with a box price and monthly sub?"
I don't understand why they can't give the items in the cash shop to players in game for the price of a $15/month subscription. They are literally developing stuff for the cash shop that you can't get to without opening your wallet even though you are paying a monthly sub.
They could have, but.. in general cash shops offer styles and items that would not have entered a game otherwise. Funny enough you even acknowlage that fact.
That's complete BS. No game company can afford to release a MMO and not continue to develop new styles of appearance for people to wear. TSW's cash shop gives Funcom a means of letting them make extra money on top of the sub from work they would have had to do anyways to remain competative in the market place.
It would be like a fast food joint charging you for ketchup and than saying they are only doing it because otherwise they couldn't provide it at all.
I don't understand why they can't give the items in the cash shop to players in game for the price of a $15/month subscription. They are literally developing stuff for the cash shop that you can't get to without opening your wallet even though you are paying a monthly sub.
They could have, but.. in general cash shops offer styles and items that would not have entered a game otherwise. Funny enough you even acknowlage that fact.
That's complete BS. No game company can afford to release a MMO and not continue to develop new styles of appearance for people to wear. TSW's cash shop gives Funcom a means of letting them make extra money on top of the sub from work they would have had to do anyways to remain competative in the market place.
It would be like a fast food joint charging you for ketchup and than saying they are only doing it because otherwise they couldn't provide it at all.
Its 100% true, I never said they dont add new styles, heck with new pvp seasons, new dungeons and raids ussually comes a variaty of styles, the cash shops add additional ones.
I don't understand why they can't give the items in the cash shop to players in game for the price of a $15/month subscription. They are literally developing stuff for the cash shop that you can't get to without opening your wallet even though you are paying a monthly sub.
For me it's just the principle of the whole matter and was one of the reasons I put off for awhile on trying the game. A monhlty sub of 15 dollars should be more than enough money for funcom to support and grow the game. Adding a cash shop along with a lifetime sub just doesn't look good . It basically is saying "We are a company that is trying to squeeze as much money from the customer as we can get away with."
Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.
Sorry but cash shops in a subscription supported game = one thing and one thing only.. a disqusting predatory level of greed that should never be condoned.
Luckily for TSW the game will be F2P within 6 months and the all the lifetimes will be getting free cashshop money each month.
if people want to buy things in the cash shop and give money to funcom which may lead to more development for the game i'm playing, then i'm all for it.
It is funny how players have been slowly conditioned into accepting a cash shop in a sub based game, if this happened 5 years ago players would be outside the development studio with pitch forks and torches. ah humanity how easily you are manipulated.
Yes, you mean like how Anet forces you to buy GW1 to get HOM rewards and people accept it?
That's not really the same thing since neither GW1 or GW2 have a subscription and Istavaan is specifically talking about subscription based games.
HOM rewards have to be earned in game. You can't get HOM rewards for simply purchasing GW1 (which by the way doesn't have a subscription fee). It's more of a way for GW1 players to feel like GW2 is a continuation than bought items since the items have to be earned through play.
I think a better example of this is WoW selling mounts in their cash shop.
Cash shops are like a "Rewarded Donation". If you love the game you play and want to fork over some cash for more development, buy something on it. Otherwise, it's completely optional. Infact, I've been playing in-game and I never saw an Advertisement for the store. It's just there.
Cash shops are like a "Rewarded Donation". If you love the game you play and want to fork over some cash for more development, buy something on it. Otherwise, it's completely optional. Infact, I've been playing in-game and I never saw an Advertisement for the store. It's just there.
I kinna like the fast food excample Udon brought into it. Its kinna like Mc Donalds offering the large version of the happy meal for 1 dollar more.
It is funny how players have been slowly conditioned into accepting a cash shop in a sub based game, if this happened 5 years ago players would be outside the development studio with pitch forks and torches. ah humanity how easily you are manipulated.
Yes, you mean like how Anet forces you to buy GW1 to get HOM rewards and people accept it?
That's not really the same thing since neither GW1 or GW2 have a subscription and Istavaan is specifically talking about subscription based games.
We're talking about ways devs make money. GW2 as a box price, expansiosn and a cash shop, and even if i give Anet money in all those forms, i'll still forced to buy another game to have full access. No different
HOM rewards have to be earned in game. You can't get HOM rewards for simply purchasing GW1 (which by the way doesn't have a subscription fee). It's more of a way for GW1 players to feel like GW2 is a continuation than bought items since the items have to be earned through play.
Thanks, you help my case. So, not only do i have to buy a game i may not want to have stuff in a game i already bought, i have to get good at it and actually beat it?
I think a better example of this is WoW selling mounts in their cash shop.
Yes, cash sops in a P2P game is a way to milk money , just like GW2's HOM from GW1.
One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.
Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.
Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.
One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.
Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.
Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.
I thought wow and rift mounts have the same speed as mounts you can get in-game and also that you could get the mounts in the cs in-game.
Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.
Sorry but cash shops in a subscription supported game = one thing and one thing only.. a disqusting predatory level of greed that should never be condoned.
Luckily for TSW the game will be F2P within 6 months and the all the lifetimes will be getting free cashshop money each month.
your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomadate the exodus from Tyria.
Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.
Sorry but cash shops in a subscription supported game = one thing and one thing only.. a disqusting predatory level of greed that should never be condoned.
Luckily for TSW the game will be F2P within 6 months and the all the lifetimes will be getting free cashshop money each month.
your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomodate the exodus from Tyria.
Aside from at the moment not being THAT much stuff to actually buy, there's no problem at all with TSW's cash shop. You can get pretty cool looks with the ingame clothing vendors, so anything you might get from the cash shop is entirely unneded, people buying from it (and there's lots of them, as it's easy to see ingame) does it just cause they want.
TSW's cash shop is a cash shop done right, in my opinion, where there's absolutely no need for anyone to buy from them, but there migth be some appeal, for both the ones wanting to give some extra, those wanting to show off some more or those that really, really like cosmetic items.
Multi-month subs currently come with a number of FC points for purchase in the shop, so you can even grab a thing or two from there without chipping in any extra money.
One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.
Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.
Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.
If a player can reasonable obtain the items sold in the cash shop by playing the game itself, then there's probably no issue.
But when there is content in the cash shop that can only be obtained by purchasing it, even if only cosmetic, it crosses the line for some folks who expect to experience the full content the title has from their base sub fee.
Not saying they are right in those expectations, but I understand why they feel any cash shop, even this one is unnacceptable in their eyes. (considering the game has a sub fee, they'll be more forgiving of GW2)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Actually game maintance, support staff, even bandwidth have all come way down over the last 10 years if anything subscription prices should be coming down.
Sorry but cash shops in a subscription supported game = one thing and one thing only.. a disqusting predatory level of greed that should never be condoned.
Luckily for TSW the game will be F2P within 6 months and the all the lifetimes will be getting free cashshop money each month.
your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomadate the exodus from Tyria.
I actually think its cs was a smart idea business wise although its horrible morals. They are getting ready for the inevitable f2p conversion. I think 6 months is too soon and Im not sure that many players will be lost by TSW because of GW2, now the other way around haha thats far fetched. Anyone who would have wanted to pay a sub for TSW would have done it already.
One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.
Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.
Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.
If a player can reasonable obtain the items sold in the cash shop by playing the game itself, then there's probably no issue.
But when there is content in the cash shop that can only be obtained by purchasing it, even if only cosmetic, it crosses the line for some folks who expect to experience the full content the title has from their base sub fee.
Not saying they are right in those expectations, but I understand why they feel any cash shop, even this one is unnacceptable in their eyes. (considering the game has a sub fee, they'll be more forgiving of GW2)
THAT right there is the core of the problem, well put
It is funny how players have been slowly conditioned into accepting a cash shop in a sub based game, if this happened 5 years ago players would be outside the development studio with pitch forks and torches. ah humanity how easily you are manipulated.
I am a business major .... graduated top 5% of my class... and I am being manipulated? lol no I understand operating costs and overhead. Oh, and I am not so simple minded as to think that since a cash shop is in the game, that I HAVE to use it.. I never planned on putting any money into the cash shop.. does that take away from my game-play? well I guess if you wanted to buy the furry bunny slippers, a poncho, and some bellbottoms with a title "The Pwned" or "The Ninja", thenI guess maybe so. lol, in the end, FC has to make money... Just because GW2 free, doesn't mean its the same type of game, and I guarantee that in the first month of it going live, they will be offering MUCH MORE non-vanity items than any game on the market. Money is money, and if thereis people that want to buy a fucking poncho, let them buy the poncho. If people want to buy 1000x treasure keys in the GW2 shop, then let it be so.
I'm not against a cash shop but tsw did keep a lot out for it. During beta I was able to by gloves and shades in game but those were removed and are now only in the cash shop. Besides the deck clothing the only clothing you can buy is the bland stuff available when you create your character. I am still rocking the same stuff from cc under my mercenary set which I have just settled to stick with do to lack of options. With armor being removed from the game which usually keeps your character evolving over the course of a game the clothing options are more important and less available than even some ftp games I've played.
Gloves are still in the game, as are sunglasses. I have them on my player right now....so this is kinda false. There's TONS of clothing and several clothing vendors, so no....you're not just stuck with the stuff your character has.....
Have you never gone to london?!
Edit:
There are 9 slots on your character for gear that has stats. So I dunno where that come from either.
Yep, go to the clothing store in London and you have a bunch of clothing options to buy with in-game currency. I bought a rockin pair of mountain shades, a flak jacket and padded military-styled pants.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
The problem is not with the cash shop or the items available.
The problem is TSWs business model.
Box Sale - Subscription Fee - Cash Shop
If people are paying a sub fee they expect all content to be available to them. For example... the clothing in the cash shop should be available in game for in-game currency. This is of coarse my personal opinion. I always said I would never support this business model because I want it to fail so future developers dont use it.
I prefer sub games because I hate cash shops... just a personal preference... having both is just plain greedy. I expect access to all of the content when I buy a game and am paying an active sub... I dont expect companies to create special goodies or withold certain items and expect more money for them.
But just my opinion. People dont dislike the shop.. they dislike a company that feels this business model is acceptable. When GW2 launches I wont look back, even though I really like the game.
The problem is not with the cash shop or the items available.
The problem is TSWs business model.
Box Sale - Subscription Fee - Cash Shop
If people are paying a sub fee they expect all content to be available to them. For example... the clothing in the cash shop should be available in game for in-game currency. This is of coarse my personal opinion. I always said I would never support this business model because I want it to fail so future developers dont use it.
I prefer sub games because I hate cash shops... just a personal preference... having both is just plain greedy. I expect access to all of the content when I buy a game and am paying an active sub... I dont expect companies to create special goodies or withold certain items and expect more money for them.
But just my opinion. People dont dislike the shop.. they dislike a company that feels this business model is acceptable. When GW2 launches I wont look back, even though I really like the game.
And that't their prerrogative, however, the item shop, as implemented by FC both doesn't force people to use it (in fact, subscribers get FC points to use there with multi-month subs, so they can get clothes from ther with no additional money) and allow for those that are willing to buy more completley cosmetic stuff to do so.
"For a 3 month gametime purchase you receive 720 bonus points (value $6) For a 6 month gametime purchase you receive 2160 bonus points (value $18) For a 12 month gametime purchase you receive 5760 bonus points worth $48 in the Item Store!"
So, yes, subscribers can get Cash SHop items without having to put additional money. If they sub for multiple months, which in itself its at a reduced cost, compared to a month by month sub.
Comments
They could have, but.. in general cash shops offer styles and items that would not have entered a game otherwise. Funny enough you even acknowlage that fact.
Finally, someone who "gets" it !
Most people on these forums either don't have the foggiest clue about the production cost and maintenance of software products, or else they are willfully ignoring it.
If MMO developers are "gouging" the players with excessive prices, then they must ALL be making large profits, not so ? Yet, other than Activision Blizzard, they don't report stellar financial results every year. Where are they hiding these massive profits ?
Most people on these forums are in agreement that every MMO launch since WoW has been a resounding failure. Everyone gleefully points out that EA must have taken a large financial hit on SW:TOR.
Yet, when it comes around to paying for boxes or monthly subs, these same companies are accused of being greedy money-grabbing suits who are raking in massive profits by exploiting poor gamers. "They don't need to charge that much".
Now, a company can't be producing games that are huge financial failures AND be making massive profits. So which is it ?
No, they didn't, but that wasn't what the quoted poster said either. He/she didn't ask "has another mmo launched with a box price and monthly sub?"
That's complete BS. No game company can afford to release a MMO and not continue to develop new styles of appearance for people to wear. TSW's cash shop gives Funcom a means of letting them make extra money on top of the sub from work they would have had to do anyways to remain competative in the market place.
It would be like a fast food joint charging you for ketchup and than saying they are only doing it because otherwise they couldn't provide it at all.
Its 100% true, I never said they dont add new styles, heck with new pvp seasons, new dungeons and raids ussually comes a variaty of styles, the cash shops add additional ones.
Nice try though.
For me it's just the principle of the whole matter and was one of the reasons I put off for awhile on trying the game. A monhlty sub of 15 dollars should be more than enough money for funcom to support and grow the game. Adding a cash shop along with a lifetime sub just doesn't look good . It basically is saying "We are a company that is trying to squeeze as much money from the customer as we can get away with."
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I agree and I second this statement.
if people want to buy things in the cash shop and give money to funcom which may lead to more development for the game i'm playing, then i'm all for it.
That's not really the same thing since neither GW1 or GW2 have a subscription and Istavaan is specifically talking about subscription based games.
HOM rewards have to be earned in game. You can't get HOM rewards for simply purchasing GW1 (which by the way doesn't have a subscription fee). It's more of a way for GW1 players to feel like GW2 is a continuation than bought items since the items have to be earned through play.
I think a better example of this is WoW selling mounts in their cash shop.
Cash shops are like a "Rewarded Donation". If you love the game you play and want to fork over some cash for more development, buy something on it. Otherwise, it's completely optional. Infact, I've been playing in-game and I never saw an Advertisement for the store. It's just there.
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
I kinna like the fast food excample Udon brought into it. Its kinna like Mc Donalds offering the large version of the happy meal for 1 dollar more.
Yes, cash sops in a P2P game is a way to milk money , just like GW2's HOM from GW1.
One thing I like about TSW's cash shop is that it is genuinely just cosmetic items. Absolutely nothing in it has any game effecting stats in any way.
Even games like WoW and Rift that only have mounts for sale cannot make that claim. Now, I don't have a problem with mounts. They just move people around faster, but they do effect game play. Even if it is only in a way that is essentially unimportant. I don't even have a problem with shops that sell exp boosts and the like. Really only convenience items in my opinion. But they do impact game play.
Clothing for a fee? big freakin' deal. I would rather have a subscription and a clothing shop than no sub and any other kind of item shop.
All die, so die well.
I thought wow and rift mounts have the same speed as mounts you can get in-game and also that you could get the mounts in the cs in-game.
your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomadate the exodus from Tyria.
your absolutely delusional if you really think it willbe F2P in 6 months.. actually in 6 months they will probably open a crapload of new servers to accomodate the exodus from Tyria.
Aside from at the moment not being THAT much stuff to actually buy, there's no problem at all with TSW's cash shop. You can get pretty cool looks with the ingame clothing vendors, so anything you might get from the cash shop is entirely unneded, people buying from it (and there's lots of them, as it's easy to see ingame) does it just cause they want.
TSW's cash shop is a cash shop done right, in my opinion, where there's absolutely no need for anyone to buy from them, but there migth be some appeal, for both the ones wanting to give some extra, those wanting to show off some more or those that really, really like cosmetic items.
Multi-month subs currently come with a number of FC points for purchase in the shop, so you can even grab a thing or two from there without chipping in any extra money.
If a player can reasonable obtain the items sold in the cash shop by playing the game itself, then there's probably no issue.
But when there is content in the cash shop that can only be obtained by purchasing it, even if only cosmetic, it crosses the line for some folks who expect to experience the full content the title has from their base sub fee.
Not saying they are right in those expectations, but I understand why they feel any cash shop, even this one is unnacceptable in their eyes. (considering the game has a sub fee, they'll be more forgiving of GW2)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I actually think its cs was a smart idea business wise although its horrible morals. They are getting ready for the inevitable f2p conversion. I think 6 months is too soon and Im not sure that many players will be lost by TSW because of GW2, now the other way around haha thats far fetched. Anyone who would have wanted to pay a sub for TSW would have done it already.
THAT right there is the core of the problem, well put
I am a business major .... graduated top 5% of my class... and I am being manipulated? lol no I understand operating costs and overhead. Oh, and I am not so simple minded as to think that since a cash shop is in the game, that I HAVE to use it.. I never planned on putting any money into the cash shop.. does that take away from my game-play? well I guess if you wanted to buy the furry bunny slippers, a poncho, and some bellbottoms with a title "The Pwned" or "The Ninja", thenI guess maybe so. lol, in the end, FC has to make money... Just because GW2 free, doesn't mean its the same type of game, and I guarantee that in the first month of it going live, they will be offering MUCH MORE non-vanity items than any game on the market. Money is money, and if thereis people that want to buy a fucking poncho, let them buy the poncho. If people want to buy 1000x treasure keys in the GW2 shop, then let it be so.
Yep, go to the clothing store in London and you have a bunch of clothing options to buy with in-game currency. I bought a rockin pair of mountain shades, a flak jacket and padded military-styled pants.
I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.
The problem is not with the cash shop or the items available.
The problem is TSWs business model.
Box Sale - Subscription Fee - Cash Shop
If people are paying a sub fee they expect all content to be available to them. For example... the clothing in the cash shop should be available in game for in-game currency. This is of coarse my personal opinion. I always said I would never support this business model because I want it to fail so future developers dont use it.
I prefer sub games because I hate cash shops... just a personal preference... having both is just plain greedy. I expect access to all of the content when I buy a game and am paying an active sub... I dont expect companies to create special goodies or withold certain items and expect more money for them.
But just my opinion. People dont dislike the shop.. they dislike a company that feels this business model is acceptable. When GW2 launches I wont look back, even though I really like the game.
And that't their prerrogative, however, the item shop, as implemented by FC both doesn't force people to use it (in fact, subscribers get FC points to use there with multi-month subs, so they can get clothes from ther with no additional money) and allow for those that are willing to buy more completley cosmetic stuff to do so.
"For a 3 month gametime purchase you receive 720 bonus points (value $6)
For a 6 month gametime purchase you receive 2160 bonus points (value $18)
For a 12 month gametime purchase you receive 5760 bonus points worth $48 in the Item Store!"
So, yes, subscribers can get Cash SHop items without having to put additional money. If they sub for multiple months, which in itself its at a reduced cost, compared to a month by month sub.