That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.
Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.
It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.
And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.
You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.
You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.
Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.
The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.
The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.
That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.
Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.
It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.
And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.
You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.
You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.
Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.
The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.
The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.
I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.
Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.
Kuppa: there obviously are things in the cash shop that you can't get ingame. There are a couple items that at a point were in ingame stores in beta. I criticized this, however, the rest fo what was ingame in all the beta period is ingame as of now.
The poster talks about glasses, gloves and other elements as if they weren't available ingame. he even implies that all he can get was what he got in the Character Creator. That's false.
My character got his CC outfit that i chose knowing i would complete with what can be bought ingame in London. Which is a TON of stuff. I have 3 pairs of gloves, several hiking boots, training shoes, jeans, formal pants, and several coats/jackets. 3 pair of glasses 2 of which are sun glasses. All that from London Pangeae clothing vendors.
There's quite a few of those in that place.
The, upon looking at my "dressing room" there are a shit ton of coats, that came from achievements, like one different coat or jacket for completing each of the inner abilities for weapons. the shotgun one is quite badass, there are good options from this.
I have 3 caps, one for completing a series of misisons in kingsmouth, 2 from the "Secret War" FB game. In fact from that i have 2 full costumes, dragon one and "neutral one" cap, jacket, shirt, pants.
I can change the look of my character for the ocassion, i keep on changing looks and re-visit Pangaea to buy more stuff, for my "hitman" look, for my Indiana Jones wanna be one... i can pose as a senior in Innsmouth Academy. All without touching the cash shop. And i'll be gettign stuff from the cash shop once i pay my first sub, without spending any more money than my usual 3 month sub.
There's not even much to get from the Cash shop, even.
And of course it is the "but that should be part of the game at no additional cost" which is exactly the same as stating that the extras in a car should be part of it with the base model price. Developing art assets is not cheap, if they weren't getting extra revenue from it (or planning to) they wouldn't add much in those departments, cause that how business work.
people that don't like Cash Shops don't have to use it, there's absolutely no need to do it, people that simply can stand the idea of a cash shop no matter what should probably abstain from using the game, if that's so big a deal for them.
Also they should actually see that very, very few things in reality are black OR white, and absolutes have been among the causes for some of our worst mistakes. they also should also understand that there's a lot of people that's ok with it, and that there's even a lot of people that like it and are asking for more things to buy cause the selection is still quite limited.
I am not making this up, i know quite a few people that already have most if not all of the decent outfits and pieces available there, and want more, and there can be seen coments on this in groups and sometimes even on general chat. Different people have different preferences.
So many haters bitch and moan about the cash shop in TSW.... the shop ONLY sells clothing, pets, outfits, titles.... all cosmetic shit that gives you ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE in the game ... there are ingame vendors who sell shitloads of clothing... theres a pet vendor.... so you cannot buy a title with pax..... who the fuck cares? unbelieveable that people say that the cash shop in TSW is ridiculous and a disgrace.. if you think its a disgrace that FC offers vanity items to those who can afford it, then move along, or get a better paying job that will allow you to be vain as well.
You pay for the client and a sub fee and you don't get everything in the game? And you think that is cool?
Also the idea that becuase items don't confer a specific combat or leveling advantage they don't matter is demonstrably false. An MMO is a game, people play for fun. If these cosmetic items make the game more fun (provable by the fact people do grind hard for these items or pay for them) then they have value. The very fact that these items have been selected by the publisher to be sold for real money, indicates their value. Value that should be included by the simple fact you've paid for the client and your sub fee.
That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.
Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.
It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.
And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.
You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.
You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.
Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.
The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.
The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.
There is also a disturbing trend of increasing already generous profit margin's by charging extra for things that use to be free as a conveniance or an added service to your customer's.
I remember a time when you woul go to a "service station" and they would fill your car, check your tire's and wash your window's. Now after I fill up my own truck with $150 worth of fuel they want to charge me $1 for me to put air in my tire's.
Things are a lot different today then they were yesterday and not always for the better.
The best way for you not to see cash shops is stop playing mmos. single players you dont have to worry about it. becouse like it or not cash shops are here to stay . ive never bought anything from a cash shop my self but if i ever get a wild hair up my arse to do so its my right. i work hard for my money and if i want to buy fuzzy slippers in the game i can.
Kuppa: there obviously are things in the cash shop that you can't get ingame. There are a couple items that at a point were in ingame stores in beta. I criticized this, however, the rest fo what was ingame in all the beta period is ingame as of now.
The poster talks about glasses, gloves and other elements as if they weren't available ingame. he even implies that all he can get was what he got in the Character Creator. That's false.
My character got his CC outfit that i chose knowing i would complete with what can be bought ingame in London. Which is a TON of stuff. I have 3 pairs of gloves, several hiking boots, training shoes, jeans, formal pants, and several coats/jackets. 3 pair of glasses 2 of which are sun glasses. All that from London Pangeae clothing vendors.
There's quite a few of those in that place.
The, upon looking at my "dressing room" there are a shit ton of coats, that came from achievements, like one different coat or jacket for completing each of the inner abilities for weapons. the shotgun one is quite badass, there are good options from this.
I have 3 caps, one for completing a series of misisons in kingsmouth, 2 from the "Secret War" FB game. In fact from that i have 2 full costumes, dragon one and "neutral one" cap, jacket, shirt, pants.
I can change the look of my character for the ocassion, i keep on changing looks and re-visit Pangaea to buy more stuff, for my "hitman" look, for my Indiana Jones wanna be one... i can pose as a senior in Innsmouth Academy. All without touching the cash shop. And i'll be gettign stuff from the cash shop once i pay my first sub, without spending any more money than my usual 3 month sub.
There's not even much to get from the Cash shop, even.
And of course it is the "but that should be part of the game at no additional cost" which is exactly the same as stating that the extras in a car should be part of it with the base model price. Developing art assets is not cheap, if they weren't getting extra revenue from it (or planning to) they wouldn't add much in those departments, cause that how business work.
people that don't like Cash Shops don't have to use it, there's absolutely no need to do it, people that simply can stand the idea of a cash shop no matter what should probably abstain from using the game, if that's so big a deal for them.
Also they should actually see that very, very few things in reality are black OR white, and absolutes have been among the causes for some of our worst mistakes. they also should also understand that there's a lot of people that's ok with it, and that there's even a lot of people that like it and are asking for more things to buy cause the selection is still quite limited.
I am not making this up, i know quite a few people that already have most if not all of the decent outfits and pieces available there, and want more, and there can be seen coments on this in groups and sometimes even on general chat. Different people have different preferences.
You keep trying to bring other real world examples but unfortunately they don't fit. Paying a box price and a sub is already above the competitions cost. Having me buy an item for extra money on top of that is just ridiculous for me. If you have tons of money and don't mind spending it then be my guest. Its simple enough to see that they are charging more than the competition and I value the money I have.
I know there are folks who don't really care about wether its a fair price, they just like it and want it. Thats fine, but saying that its fair price I don't buy it.
Someone said it earlier in this thread, and I'll repeat it for emphasis:
"If you think you're "registering your protest" by not buying or playing a game with a cash shop, you are sadly mistaken"
The developer of the game has no idea why YOU (or the other 7 billion people on the planet) didn't buy their game. Until you send them an email and explain your reasons, they are free to assume you don't play their game because it's an MMO, or because it's not a shooter, or because you happen to be blind. They have no way of knowing you're boycotting their cash shop.
You may as well decide to start picketing the company by carrying a placard around in your basement.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.
Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.
It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.
And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.
You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.
You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.
Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.
The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.
The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.
I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.
Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.
I don't think your analogy works here at all.
Close but no banana. Restaurants ARE like subscription based games, you pay 50cent (per day) to play, with the option to have extras like in a restaurant where you have to pay to eat with the option for extras like a drink which you pay extra for.
F2P would be closer to the salvation army giving free meals to the homeless but charging money to get a drink to come with it, or selling a homeless newspaper, 2nd hand clothes etc etc to raise money. Granted ofcourse F2P games are NOT charity based like the salvation army.
I don't understand why they can't give the items in the cash shop to players in game for the price of a $15/month subscription. They are literally developing stuff for the cash shop that you can't get to without opening your wallet even though you are paying a monthly sub.
Because they want to use the horrible business model. I like cash shops with cosmetic only and i love the f2p and b2p models of business but when you add the monthly sub to any equation it always ends the same way, badly. They need to take that out. I think the only reason they have the sub in there is so that people won't freak out as badly about having a shop, because this is the model used by WoW and since they all look to gaining as many wow players as possible that's probably their plan.
That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.
Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.
It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.
And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.
You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.
You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.
Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.
The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.
The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.
I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.
Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.
I don't think your analogy works here at all.
Close but no banana. Restaurants ARE like subscription based games, you pay 50cent (per day) to play, with the option to have extras like in a restaurant where you have to pay to eat with the option for extras like a drink which you pay extra for.
F2P would be closer to the salvation army giving free meals to the homeless but charging money to get a drink to come with it, or selling a homeless newspaper, 2nd hand clothes etc etc to raise money. Granted ofcourse F2P games are NOT charity based like the salvation army.
Can someone else just facepalm this for me?
Can you please name a restaurant that charges 50 cents per day, whether or not you go to the restaurant?
If there is demand there is supply. Can't blame the companies alone. If you really want to see cash shops go away, stop spending money on them which is something impossible to do so cash shops are here to stay.
Very well put. At the end of the day you need to stop blaming the guy selling the cow and start blaming those buying the beef.
That people use them, they are profitable and that's why they are here and here to stay. This will only expand in the industry and I personally dont like it.
Unfortunately yes and thew cash shops will only get worse and more exploitive till consmers actually vote with their wallets and say no,which won't happen whilst gamers act like junkies willign to put up with anything for their chosen fix and make excuses for their chosen game and developer and rationalise their expenditure.
It's fine for conpanies to try to maximize their profits where the break down is in today's market is consumers don't fight to spend as little as they can having been trained for decades that a free market means companies can do what they want and we should accept and trust them.
And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.
You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.
You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.
Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.
The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.
The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.
I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.
Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.
I don't think your analogy works here at all.
Close but no banana. Restaurants ARE like subscription based games, you pay 50cent (per day) to play, with the option to have extras like in a restaurant where you have to pay to eat with the option for extras like a drink which you pay extra for.
F2P would be closer to the salvation army giving free meals to the homeless but charging money to get a drink to come with it, or selling a homeless newspaper, 2nd hand clothes etc etc to raise money. Granted ofcourse F2P games are NOT charity based like the salvation army.
Can someone else just facepalm this for me?
Can you please name a restaurant that charges 50 cents per day, whether or not you go to the restaurant?
Sure, I'll facepalm you.
Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.
But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.
How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.
Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.
But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
The principal isn't the same at all.
In a restaurant, you pay X for what you get. Period. There are no "extras" in a restaurant. There is only what you pay for. If you want a large coke, some fries and some apple pies, you pay for and get a large coke, some fires and some apples pies.
You do not have to pay a monthly fee, in any way, to a restaurant. You pay for what you get no matter how many times they ask you if you want to supersize it. Even if you say yes to supersizing, you are paying a one time fee for a supersized meal. No sub.
But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.
How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.
A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.
A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee. More like B2P with a cash shop.
But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.
How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.
A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.
A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee.
The Gym is a better analogy. But I would equate it as paying your sub for your membership and then having to pay extra to use the bench press or the shower.
The only positive to a cash shop is for the developer.
I dont see getting a smile from your newly purchased pixel pant's... as a positive
Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.
But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
The principal isn't the same at all.
In a restaurant, you pay X for what you get. Period. There are no "extras" in a restaurant. There is only what you pay for. If you want a large coke, some fries and some apple pies, you pay for and get a large coke, some fires and some apples pies.
You do not have to pay a monthly fee, in any way, to a restaurant. You pay for what you get no matter how many times they ask you if you want to supersize it. Even if you say yes to supersizing, you are paying a one time fee for a supersized meal. No sub.
Your analogy sucks hard to be honest.
Its funny you just acknowlage the principle is correct. You order your meal, it comes with potatoes(or fries) some vegetables, a salad and a piece of meat. You dont get a drink, you have to order and pay extra to get that.
Sticking with purely styles here, a game comes with for arguement sake, 2000 different styles and adds 20 new styles average per content update (new dungeon, missions, raid, pvp season) . (We have ~15 years?? of mmo's to proof this)
Now they hire an additional team to design styles for the cash store, and now they are adding an additional 30-40 styles per week extra.
Wow, some of you should seriously be forced to enroll in AA (Analogies Anonymous).
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.
But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
The principal isn't the same at all.
In a restaurant, you pay X for what you get. Period. There are no "extras" in a restaurant. There is only what you pay for. If you want a large coke, some fries and some apple pies, you pay for and get a large coke, some fires and some apples pies.
You do not have to pay a monthly fee, in any way, to a restaurant. You pay for what you get no matter how many times they ask you if you want to supersize it. Even if you say yes to supersizing, you are paying a one time fee for a supersized meal. No sub.
Your analogy sucks hard to be honest.
Its funny you just acknowlage the principle is correct. You order your meal, it comes with potatoes(or fries) some vegetables, a salad and a piece of meat. You dont get a drink, you have to order and pay extra to get that.
Sticking with purely styles here, a game comes with for arguement sake, 2000 different styles and adds 20 new styles average per content update (new dungeon, missions, raid, pvp season) . (We have ~15 years?? of mmo's to proof this)
Now they hire an additional team to design styles for the cash store, and now they are adding an additional 30-40 styles per week extra.
Using your argument, everything you buy on the planet has a sub + cash shop.
I go to a grocery store and buy a potato. That is my sub cost. I add a tomato to my cart. That is the cash shop.
But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.
How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.
A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.
A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee. More like B2P with a cash shop.
Im not talking 1 time entry fee clubs, there are plenty of clubs, expecially high society clubs that require a monthy fee.
Heck, the reason why no restaurant comes to mind is because.. if you REALLY want to get technical.. they are closed clubs, where you dont even GET the meal(nor meals) for free, even though the club offers nothing but a restaurant a bar and a lounch to sit in.
But no matter how you look at it the principle stays the same, you pay for X and pay extra for the extra's you wouldnt have gotten otherwise.
Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.
But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
The principal isn't the same at all.
In a restaurant, you pay X for what you get. Period. There are no "extras" in a restaurant. There is only what you pay for. If you want a large coke, some fries and some apple pies, you pay for and get a large coke, some fires and some apples pies.
You do not have to pay a monthly fee, in any way, to a restaurant. You pay for what you get no matter how many times they ask you if you want to supersize it. Even if you say yes to supersizing, you are paying a one time fee for a supersized meal. No sub.
Your analogy sucks hard to be honest.
Its funny you just acknowlage the principle is correct. You order your meal, it comes with potatoes(or fries) some vegetables, a salad and a piece of meat. You dont get a drink, you have to order and pay extra to get that.
Sticking with purely styles here, a game comes with for arguement sake, 2000 different styles and adds 20 new styles average per content update (new dungeon, missions, raid, pvp season) . (We have ~15 years?? of mmo's to proof this)
Now they hire an additional team to design styles for the cash store, and now they are adding an additional 30-40 styles per week extra.
Using your argument, everything you buy on the planet has a sub + cash shop.
I go to a grocery store and buy a potato. That is my sub cost. I add a tomato to my cart. That is the cash shop.
It's just a really bad analogy.
Bad analogy or not, you do have a funny way of saying I am right.
So many haters bitch and moan about the cash shop in TSW.... the shop ONLY sells clothing, pets, outfits, titles.... all cosmetic shit that gives you ABSOLUTELY NO ADVANTAGE in the game ... there are ingame vendors who sell shitloads of clothing... theres a pet vendor.... so you cannot buy a title with pax..... who the fuck cares? unbelieveable that people say that the cash shop in TSW is ridiculous and a disgrace.. if you think its a disgrace that FC offers vanity items to those who can afford it, then move along, or get a better paying job that will allow you to be vain as well.
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by colddog04
I don't understand why they can't give the items in the cash shop to players in game for the price of a $15/month subscription. They are literally developing stuff for the cash shop that you can't get to even though you are paying a monthly sub.
because its the new trend as players buy it and they can get away with it. Many years ago when mmorpgs released everyone got pissed about the entire 15 bucks a month. Heck DAOC started at 12.95 a month and didnt raise up for a couple of years. This is a trend that players whom use the cash shops started and continue to feed it. I personally dont use the cash shop in the game nor does it bother me its there . But OP obviously by his language and douchebagginess cant respect anyone who has an opinion other then himself.
Originally posted by Ryowulf
New Trend? Has another mmo asked for a box price and monthly sub, while having a cash shop?
In ftp games that I am aware of, if you sub they give you X amount of their coin.
I do think monthly costs will need to go up. Box prices have. Maybe adding a cash shop is an attempt to avoid asking for an $18 sub. Or maybe its just a money grab.
to the OP
wow has such a blatantly greedy business model, why, because they still can afford to, they have 10 million blindly loyal subscribers that have poured years in to the game, they will literally accept anything Blizzard asks of them, they are to moronic to notice they are being ripped off.
most gamers understand that it's about the principle behind it, NOT about if you can afford the stupid cashshop.
Box price + monthly fee + cash shop is a combination many gamers do not accept on principle, why, simple,
if you let them get away with it, it will become the norm, gamers need to let them know i's not ok to be so blatantly greedy.
specially if your game is shitty.....cough wow, tera, tsw cough.
some years ago sure gamers didn't know better so wow got away with it, (perfect timing) now it's 2012 and gamers are smarter.
what most gamers look for is basically this:
- if you have a standard non discounted box price, your game should be B2P with no monthly sub and a balanced cash shop, expansions should have a box price.
- if you have a monthly sub, the game should be cheap below 10 euros or totally free to download with no cash shop at all expansions should be either free or very low cost. (otherwise why the fuck do we pay a sub every month) in this scenario the sub cost could be even higher than 15 dollars a month, again don't be blatantly greedy keep it fair somewhere between 15-20 dollars a month.
- if you don't have a sub or box price to speak of, we expect the game quality to be on par with the AAA titles that do, and have a balanced cash shop. Expansions should be free, just try to keep your cash shop balanced, show us your integrity we will show you our cash.
Postdata:
some will argue that the sub cost is to pay for server costs and not for expansions, wrong !
in the 90's sure that was the case, now a days not so much it costs them practically a dime a year figuratively speaking, to run those servers so much so that server costs it's only a small foot note on the yearly balance sheets.
the main issue gamers face with cash shop games, is that most companies break the game to the point it is impossible to play it without buying some shit from the cash shop in order to progress in the game.
monthly sub games need to understand that in this age, if you choose to pay a sub it's because you do NOT wish to see a cash shop ever ever, I'd rather they up the sub fee 1 or 2 dollars instead, to do this you need to have a very good game something that will rival, wow, gw2 or eve as those are in my opinion the current market leaders.
But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.
How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.
A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.
A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee. More like B2P with a cash shop.
Im not talking 1 time entry fee clubs, there are plenty of clubs, expecially high society clubs that require a monthy fee.
Heck, the reason why no restaurant comes to mind is because.. if you REALLY want to get technical.. they are closed clubs, where you dont even GET the meal(nor meals) for free, even though the club offers nothing but a restaurant a bar and a lounch to sit in.
But no matter how you look at it the principle stays the same, you pay for X and pay extra for the extra's you wouldnt have gotten otherwise.
If you want to compare the value you get from paying a monthly fee to a club where they still sell drinks, etc, I am ok with that. Clubs like that tend to charge way too much in my opinion and have multiple ways to milk you out of your money (sub + shop).
And there are a lot of people that feel like the experience is worth it. But you have to also understand that there are a lot of people that don't feel like the expereince is worth it. Some people may even not go to the club and may choose another club because they prefer the payment method of another club.
But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.
How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.
A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.
A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee.
The Gym is a better analogy. But I would equate it as paying your sub for your membership and then having to pay extra to use the bench press or the shower.
The only positive to a cash shop is for the developer.
I dont see getting a smile from your newly purchased pixel pant's... as a positive
Not really, charging extra for the becnh press or shower use would like paying for gameplay affecting elements.
it would be more like charging you extra for swaters, gloves, and other fluff stuff you don't need to get from them. Which a lot of gyms do.
If the gym has a "bar" i bet you have to pay for the protein shake or the nutritional bar, too.
And as with a cosmetic only cash shop, the gym has an additional venue for profit, without making it so that the clients HAVE to us it.
Kuppa: that's your particular opinion, and as i stated you have to understand that for a whole ot of other people the sub IS worth it, and the Cash shop is either worth it, non important or even seeked after.
This idea that all products should follow the exact same model for revenue is dumb, different companies have different models, people can choose. What's the problem?
Comments
And people HAVE been voting with their wallets, they dont mind to pay for extra's, it has been like that for years and years in the real world too.
You want the extra large meal? You pay extra.
You want a sunroof in your car? You pay extra.
Heck you goto a fancy restaurant and buy a meal. You want a drink to with it? You pay extra.
The list of excamples in the Real world is endless.
The item market is doing the same thing. You want things that would not have entered the game without the store? You pay extra.
I don't have to pay monthly for the extra large meal. If I paid a restaurant a monthly fee, I'd expect to get everything the restaurant offered on their menu with no additional cost.
Restaurants are more like a F2P game with a cash shop. You have a selection of items that you pay for once. "I want a hamburger and a soda." They give me a hamburger and a soda for a one time fee.
I don't think your analogy works here at all.
Kuppa: there obviously are things in the cash shop that you can't get ingame. There are a couple items that at a point were in ingame stores in beta. I criticized this, however, the rest fo what was ingame in all the beta period is ingame as of now.
The poster talks about glasses, gloves and other elements as if they weren't available ingame. he even implies that all he can get was what he got in the Character Creator. That's false.
My character got his CC outfit that i chose knowing i would complete with what can be bought ingame in London. Which is a TON of stuff. I have 3 pairs of gloves, several hiking boots, training shoes, jeans, formal pants, and several coats/jackets. 3 pair of glasses 2 of which are sun glasses. All that from London Pangeae clothing vendors.
There's quite a few of those in that place.
The, upon looking at my "dressing room" there are a shit ton of coats, that came from achievements, like one different coat or jacket for completing each of the inner abilities for weapons. the shotgun one is quite badass, there are good options from this.
I have 3 caps, one for completing a series of misisons in kingsmouth, 2 from the "Secret War" FB game. In fact from that i have 2 full costumes, dragon one and "neutral one" cap, jacket, shirt, pants.
I can change the look of my character for the ocassion, i keep on changing looks and re-visit Pangaea to buy more stuff, for my "hitman" look, for my Indiana Jones wanna be one... i can pose as a senior in Innsmouth Academy. All without touching the cash shop. And i'll be gettign stuff from the cash shop once i pay my first sub, without spending any more money than my usual 3 month sub.
There's not even much to get from the Cash shop, even.
And of course it is the "but that should be part of the game at no additional cost" which is exactly the same as stating that the extras in a car should be part of it with the base model price. Developing art assets is not cheap, if they weren't getting extra revenue from it (or planning to) they wouldn't add much in those departments, cause that how business work.
people that don't like Cash Shops don't have to use it, there's absolutely no need to do it, people that simply can stand the idea of a cash shop no matter what should probably abstain from using the game, if that's so big a deal for them.
Also they should actually see that very, very few things in reality are black OR white, and absolutes have been among the causes for some of our worst mistakes. they also should also understand that there's a lot of people that's ok with it, and that there's even a lot of people that like it and are asking for more things to buy cause the selection is still quite limited.
I am not making this up, i know quite a few people that already have most if not all of the decent outfits and pieces available there, and want more, and there can be seen coments on this in groups and sometimes even on general chat. Different people have different preferences.
You pay for the client and a sub fee and you don't get everything in the game? And you think that is cool?
Also the idea that becuase items don't confer a specific combat or leveling advantage they don't matter is demonstrably false. An MMO is a game, people play for fun. If these cosmetic items make the game more fun (provable by the fact people do grind hard for these items or pay for them) then they have value. The very fact that these items have been selected by the publisher to be sold for real money, indicates their value. Value that should be included by the simple fact you've paid for the client and your sub fee.
There is also a disturbing trend of increasing already generous profit margin's by charging extra for things that use to be free as a conveniance or an added service to your customer's.
I remember a time when you woul go to a "service station" and they would fill your car, check your tire's and wash your window's. Now after I fill up my own truck with $150 worth of fuel they want to charge me $1 for me to put air in my tire's.
Things are a lot different today then they were yesterday and not always for the better.
This goes for gaming as well.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
The best way for you not to see cash shops is stop playing mmos. single players you dont have to worry about it. becouse like it or not cash shops are here to stay . ive never bought anything from a cash shop my self but if i ever get a wild hair up my arse to do so its my right. i work hard for my money and if i want to buy fuzzy slippers in the game i can.
You keep trying to bring other real world examples but unfortunately they don't fit. Paying a box price and a sub is already above the competitions cost. Having me buy an item for extra money on top of that is just ridiculous for me. If you have tons of money and don't mind spending it then be my guest. Its simple enough to see that they are charging more than the competition and I value the money I have.
I know there are folks who don't really care about wether its a fair price, they just like it and want it. Thats fine, but saying that its fair price I don't buy it.
Someone said it earlier in this thread, and I'll repeat it for emphasis:
"If you think you're "registering your protest" by not buying or playing a game with a cash shop, you are sadly mistaken"
The developer of the game has no idea why YOU (or the other 7 billion people on the planet) didn't buy their game. Until you send them an email and explain your reasons, they are free to assume you don't play their game because it's an MMO, or because it's not a shooter, or because you happen to be blind. They have no way of knowing you're boycotting their cash shop.
You may as well decide to start picketing the company by carrying a placard around in your basement.
Look at the bright side, when you see someone wearing a cash shop only item it makes it pretty easy to identify who you want to take advanatage of.
Sort of like a "kick me" sign.
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Close but no banana. Restaurants ARE like subscription based games, you pay 50cent (per day) to play, with the option to have extras like in a restaurant where you have to pay to eat with the option for extras like a drink which you pay extra for.
F2P would be closer to the salvation army giving free meals to the homeless but charging money to get a drink to come with it, or selling a homeless newspaper, 2nd hand clothes etc etc to raise money. Granted ofcourse F2P games are NOT charity based like the salvation army.
Because they want to use the horrible business model. I like cash shops with cosmetic only and i love the f2p and b2p models of business but when you add the monthly sub to any equation it always ends the same way, badly. They need to take that out. I think the only reason they have the sub in there is so that people won't freak out as badly about having a shop, because this is the model used by WoW and since they all look to gaining as many wow players as possible that's probably their plan.
Can someone else just facepalm this for me?
Can you please name a restaurant that charges 50 cents per day, whether or not you go to the restaurant?
Very well put. At the end of the day you need to stop blaming the guy selling the cow and start blaming those buying the beef.
Sure, I'll facepalm you.
Ofcourse there arent any, the prices of a restaurant are different then the price of a subscription of a game.. obviously.
But the principle remains the same, you pay X to play, you pay extra for the.. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
You pay Y for everytime you goto a restaurant to eat, you pay extra for the .. extras, you would not have gotten otherwise.
But ok.. I admit no restaurant comes to mind, alot of clubs do come to mind though, you have to pay a subscription in order to be able to enter, you have to pay extra for drinks.
How about.. the gym, you pay a monthly fee wether you come there or not but , the moment you sit down at the bar for a drink( the extra's) you have to pay extra.
The principal isn't the same at all.
In a restaurant, you pay X for what you get. Period. There are no "extras" in a restaurant. There is only what you pay for. If you want a large coke, some fries and some apple pies, you pay for and get a large coke, some fires and some apples pies.
You do not have to pay a monthly fee, in any way, to a restaurant. You pay for what you get no matter how many times they ask you if you want to supersize it. Even if you say yes to supersizing, you are paying a one time fee for a supersized meal. No sub.
Your analogy sucks hard to be honest.
A gym is a better comparison. And they are a ripoff too.
A one time fee to enter a club is not a good comparison... because it is a one time fee. You choose to pay the fee to enter. You choose to buy the drink for a one time fee. More like B2P with a cash shop.
The Gym is a better analogy. But I would equate it as paying your sub for your membership and then having to pay extra to use the bench press or the shower.
The only positive to a cash shop is for the developer.
I dont see getting a smile from your newly purchased pixel pant's... as a positive
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Its funny you just acknowlage the principle is correct. You order your meal, it comes with potatoes(or fries) some vegetables, a salad and a piece of meat. You dont get a drink, you have to order and pay extra to get that.
Sticking with purely styles here, a game comes with for arguement sake, 2000 different styles and adds 20 new styles average per content update (new dungeon, missions, raid, pvp season) . (We have ~15 years?? of mmo's to proof this)
Now they hire an additional team to design styles for the cash store, and now they are adding an additional 30-40 styles per week extra.
Wow, some of you should seriously be forced to enroll in AA (Analogies Anonymous).
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Using your argument, everything you buy on the planet has a sub + cash shop.
I go to a grocery store and buy a potato. That is my sub cost. I add a tomato to my cart. That is the cash shop.
It's just a really bad analogy.
Im not talking 1 time entry fee clubs, there are plenty of clubs, expecially high society clubs that require a monthy fee.
Heck, the reason why no restaurant comes to mind is because.. if you REALLY want to get technical.. they are closed clubs, where you dont even GET the meal(nor meals) for free, even though the club offers nothing but a restaurant a bar and a lounch to sit in.
But no matter how you look at it the principle stays the same, you pay for X and pay extra for the extra's you wouldnt have gotten otherwise.
Bad analogy or not, you do have a funny way of saying I am right.
to the OP
wow has such a blatantly greedy business model, why, because they still can afford to, they have 10 million blindly loyal subscribers that have poured years in to the game, they will literally accept anything Blizzard asks of them, they are to moronic to notice they are being ripped off.
most gamers understand that it's about the principle behind it, NOT about if you can afford the stupid cashshop.
Box price + monthly fee + cash shop is a combination many gamers do not accept on principle, why, simple,
if you let them get away with it, it will become the norm, gamers need to let them know i's not ok to be so blatantly greedy.
specially if your game is shitty.....cough wow, tera, tsw cough.
some years ago sure gamers didn't know better so wow got away with it, (perfect timing) now it's 2012 and gamers are smarter.
what most gamers look for is basically this:
- if you have a standard non discounted box price, your game should be B2P with no monthly sub and a balanced cash shop, expansions should have a box price.
- if you have a monthly sub, the game should be cheap below 10 euros or totally free to download with no cash shop at all expansions should be either free or very low cost. (otherwise why the fuck do we pay a sub every month) in this scenario the sub cost could be even higher than 15 dollars a month, again don't be blatantly greedy keep it fair somewhere between 15-20 dollars a month.
- if you don't have a sub or box price to speak of, we expect the game quality to be on par with the AAA titles that do, and have a balanced cash shop. Expansions should be free, just try to keep your cash shop balanced, show us your integrity we will show you our cash.
Postdata:
some will argue that the sub cost is to pay for server costs and not for expansions, wrong !
in the 90's sure that was the case, now a days not so much it costs them practically a dime a year figuratively speaking, to run those servers so much so that server costs it's only a small foot note on the yearly balance sheets.
the main issue gamers face with cash shop games, is that most companies break the game to the point it is impossible to play it without buying some shit from the cash shop in order to progress in the game.
monthly sub games need to understand that in this age, if you choose to pay a sub it's because you do NOT wish to see a cash shop ever ever, I'd rather they up the sub fee 1 or 2 dollars instead, to do this you need to have a very good game something that will rival, wow, gw2 or eve as those are in my opinion the current market leaders.
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If you want to compare the value you get from paying a monthly fee to a club where they still sell drinks, etc, I am ok with that. Clubs like that tend to charge way too much in my opinion and have multiple ways to milk you out of your money (sub + shop).
And there are a lot of people that feel like the experience is worth it. But you have to also understand that there are a lot of people that don't feel like the expereince is worth it. Some people may even not go to the club and may choose another club because they prefer the payment method of another club.
Not really, charging extra for the becnh press or shower use would like paying for gameplay affecting elements.
it would be more like charging you extra for swaters, gloves, and other fluff stuff you don't need to get from them. Which a lot of gyms do.
If the gym has a "bar" i bet you have to pay for the protein shake or the nutritional bar, too.
And as with a cosmetic only cash shop, the gym has an additional venue for profit, without making it so that the clients HAVE to us it.
Kuppa: that's your particular opinion, and as i stated you have to understand that for a whole ot of other people the sub IS worth it, and the Cash shop is either worth it, non important or even seeked after.
This idea that all products should follow the exact same model for revenue is dumb, different companies have different models, people can choose. What's the problem?