Actually, there ARE increasing tiers of gear. You'll find them at armorsmith and guild vendors in the main cities. There's gear for level 10, 15, 20, etc., and you can just buy (for very cheap) the entire set for that level. The "tier" vendors even have "tier" over their heads in their title. Those gears are the better gears and I think they're about a gold an item. But there are also level gear vendors, like I said, for 10, 15, level 20, etc. This gear is not GREATLY different than the previous levels, but it does have higher stats (by some).
The point of playing the game is to have fun. I remember fun. I'm happy to have a game that supports going back to the days of HAVING fun and not feeling like your game is a second full time JOB.
Originally posted by Zeroxin Originally posted by GrahorOriginally posted by atticusbcOriginally posted by William12except wvwvw isn't fun. The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight. The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.
it's a bit of a zergfest at the moment, but once there's actual motivation to play well (i.e. after launch) i'm sure we'll see it become a lot more in depth. it's all a matter of how players choose to play.Then it will forever remain a zergfest.If it can be done easily as a zergfest, what exactly is this motivation to play well?It can't be done easily as a zergfest, supply camps have to be held and REMAIN held, siege weapons have to be built and used, sustained healing and projectile deflection/reflection/blocking has to be employed. The zerg cannot manage that without some sort of organization and if they employ that kind of organization, they can no longer be called a zerg.
The game play supports players running around in a large blob attacking wherever there is a set of crossed swords on the map. This is what a lot of people are going to do. There are also players who will repair walls, man or place siege weapons, call out attacks, etc. and it's designed for this as well.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
except wvwvw isn't fun. The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight. The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.
While I had some complaints about aspects of WvW (mostly repairs and XP/gold rewards being too low at times) it can be very fun.
One example,
I arrived in the Red Borderlands late on Sunday after a long siege in the Eteneral Battlegrounds that was going nowhere and had been going nowhere most of the day.
We held nothing at all in this zone and there were about 5 of our team here. I had a stack of various siege weapons so decided to see what I could stir up.
First I organised the team to take a supply camp near Dreaming Bay (one of 3 large keeps in the zone). From there we took Greenbriar a nearby tower and while the team ran off to take another supply camp, I started setting up a trebuchet at the top on Greenbriar on this wall that ran out in the direction of Dreaming Bay on a hunch.
Around this time the blue team turned up to see why we had taken their keep so I couldn't complete the trebuchet. Fortunately along with them came some more of my teammates, so we had about 12 or 15 in the zone now. A fun battle ensued which lasted 15 or 20mins and used up a couple of my smaller siege weapons. In the end we now have a well defended tower in the zone and the blue team had run off towards Bluelake, the sister tower to the one we had claimed. My team went after them.
I ran off to the supply camp and escorted a couple of caravans back to our tower so I could complete the trebuchet. That done, I got my team to distract the enemy at Bluelake while I attacked the gate of Dreaming Bay (also held by the evil blue team) and my hunch paid off I could just hit it at max range with my Trebuchet. A short time later the gate was done so I ran off with 3 others to take the castle.
It was around now I discover the size of the castle we were trying to take and had to swim across the shark infested waters. So we called the team back from Bluelake which they weren't taking and let the blue team think we had been run off. Shortly after 10 more people turned up at Dreaming Bay and we took the keep.
Now we had to hold it, because the red team had just arrived and were eying our freshly painted keep and looking mean. Two hours of bloody warfare followed as we lost the outer walls twice and had to retreat to the main keep. I used up a balista, 2 arrow carts and a catapult and someone else also supplied an arrow cart and catapult and we now had a heavily defended keep so kept driving the red team back and out of the gate and then back they would come for another try. Later they tried a feint, heading for Greenbriar which we still held and our last remaining supply camp which we needed to keep Dreaming Bay running and when we went to stop them they hit the keep again, although fortunately we were wise to their tricks and managed to hold everything except the supply camp which we later took back.
The end result was a 4 hour long PvP session where we went from holding nothing to taking a tower, a keep and 2 supply camps and holding them for another 2 hours (maybe longer, I went to bed at 1am so didn't see what happened after that). We had most 15 players on our side and the blue team had a similar number, while the reds were fielding up to 25 or 30 people during their assaults on Dreaming Bay and elsewhere.
It seems a bit stale writing about it now, but it was probably the most fun I've had in PvP for a long long time and erased a lot of the doubts that had build up over the previous 2 days. I didn't die once in the four hour encounter I had above (was level 21 at the time with a survival build and defensive utility skills). Looking forward to release now for sure.
nice write-up and glad you saw how fun WvWvW can be:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
except wvwvw isn't fun. The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight. The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.
so not true, if you zerg in wvw you'll get torn apart by a server that plays the right way..like getting supply to fortify their keeps and getting the help of npc races. so you continue zerging but when you try zerg my keep i'll cut you down.
Actually, there ARE increasing tiers of gear. You'll find them at armorsmith and guild vendors in the main cities. There's gear for level 10, 15, 20, etc., and you can just buy (for very cheap) the entire set for that level. The "tier" vendors even have "tier" over their heads in their title. Those gears are the better gears and I think they're about a gold an item. But there are also level gear vendors, like I said, for 10, 15, level 20, etc. This gear is not GREATLY different than the previous levels, but it does have higher stats (by some).
The point of playing the game is to have fun. I remember fun. I'm happy to have a game that supports going back to the days of HAVING fun and not feeling like your game is a second full time JOB.
When refering to tiered gear it usually is a endgame thing IE wow tier 1 is the armor you can (or could) get in molten core, not the first white item or the 60 dungeon set (altough that might have been called tier 0)
People throw that word around here so much its pretty much lost all meaning. People think they can say "because its fun" when describing GW2 that that alone will absolve them of any further explanations. As if anyone that disagrees hates "fun".
Actually, there ARE increasing tiers of gear. You'll find them at armorsmith and guild vendors in the main cities. There's gear for level 10, 15, 20, etc., and you can just buy (for very cheap) the entire set for that level. The "tier" vendors even have "tier" over their heads in their title. Those gears are the better gears and I think they're about a gold an item. But there are also level gear vendors, like I said, for 10, 15, level 20, etc. This gear is not GREATLY different than the previous levels, but it does have higher stats (by some).
The point of playing the game is to have fun. I remember fun. I'm happy to have a game that supports going back to the days of HAVING fun and not feeling like your game is a second full time JOB.
When refering to tiered gear it usually is a endgame thing IE wow tier 1 is the armor you can (or could) get in molten core, not the first white item or the 60 dungeon set (altough that might have been called tier 0)
Ahh, dungeon tier gear. Yeah, well....I had plenty of that in WoW and I'm glad I no longer have to work like a dog for gear. I was not thrilled with the gear grind in WoW, particularly since it started over from scratch every expansion. What a waste of my time. Thank goodness for GW2 and going back to playing for FUN. And I might happily grind some appearance gear to look "cool." Mostly because....I don't feel like I HAVE to do it.
So far you guys/girls have fun because its a new game. But once when you reach max level for a time, and there's no carrot on a stick to drive you forward, you will become bored of the game.
Since gw2 is about DE, i dont understand why they dont implement the tier with stats like , yes WoW.
There's no class system, eveyone can join in DE, no need exact numbers of tanks or healers or dps, they could just implement tier gear in gw2.
Making the game longer , ye a grind too, and yet all players is able to see the contents and get rewarded.
Stats gear is there for a reason, and with gw2 i personally think its such a waste not to have it, instead of just cool looking gear without it.
People throw that word around here so much its pretty much lost all meaning. People think they can say "because its fun" when describing GW2 that that alone will absolve them of any further explanations. As if anyone that disagrees hates "fun".
Fun is different to everyone. When I say "fun" I'm referring to what is fun to ME. I'm aware of the fact that MY fun doesn't translate to anyone else necessarily, unless they have the same preferences as I do.
So far you guys/girls have fun because its a new game. But once when you reach max level for a time, and there's no carrot on a stick to drive you forward, you will become bored of the game.
Since gw2 is about DE, i dont understand why they dont implement the tier with stats like , yes WoW.
There's no class system, eveyone can join in DE, no need exact numbers of tanks or healers or dps, they could just implement tier gear in gw2.
Making the game longer , ye a grind too, and yet all players is able to see the contents and get rewarded.
Stats gear is there for a reason, and with gw2 i personally think its such a waste not to have it, instead of just cool looking gear without it.
And i say again, it wont last long in " end-game"
Im so glad you took the time to tell me how I'll enjoy this game.
Let's ignore the fact I "grinded" for "pretty gear" for about 5 years in the original guild wars and loved it ....
I really wish you would have posted this before the game went to beta, you'd save everyone so much time and hassel knowing the game will be stale by level cap.
Now, I know you'll find this really hard to grasp, but some people really HATE the tiered WoW system (I know right?). It's true though.... some of us, LIKE the fact you upgrade your gear by having fun, doing dungeons for the sake of doing them and getting cool/badass gear to play with while knowing everyone will ALWAYS be on the same level playing field, especially in PVP. I think people are scared to death the tiered gear system will show how absolutely terrible skill-wise a player is, there's no more "well Ill just go here and get better gear so I can do more dungeons" without it actually mattering how good (or bad) a player is.
Thank God I read your post though... phewwww.... almost wasted months trying to find that carrot which will no longer exist.
Im so glad you took the time to tell me how I'll enjoy this game.
Let's ignore the fact I "grinded" for "pretty gear" for about 5 years in the original guild wars and loved it ....
I really wish you would have posted this before the game went to beta, you'd save everyone so much time and hassel knowing the game will be stale by level cap.
Now, I know you'll find this really hard to grasp, but some people really HATE the tiered WoW system (I know right?). It's true though.... some of us, LIKE the fact you upgrade your gear by having fun, doing dungeons for the sake of doing them and getting cool/badass gear to play with while knowing everyone will ALWAYS be on the same level playing field.
Thank God I read your post though... phewwww.... almost wasted months trying to find that carrot which will no longer exist.
Im not teling you how you will enjoy the game.
Pretty gear can only last and satisfied for some players, when other players find that the effort they put in, in doing eveything, spending more time, still ends them up the same as the guy next door, there's no longer any incentive to put in more hard works/efforts.
Thus no longer have the need to play, till the next increase in level cap.
Yes there's some who hate tier gear, but its because of the way that its been implemented, that majority of the players is being left out.
But in gw2 its different, everyone can play, in-regardless of the class you playing, there's no limit!
Im so glad you took the time to tell me how I'll enjoy this game.
Let's ignore the fact I "grinded" for "pretty gear" for about 5 years in the original guild wars and loved it ....
I really wish you would have posted this before the game went to beta, you'd save everyone so much time and hassel knowing the game will be stale by level cap.
Now, I know you'll find this really hard to grasp, but some people really HATE the tiered WoW system (I know right?). It's true though.... some of us, LIKE the fact you upgrade your gear by having fun, doing dungeons for the sake of doing them and getting cool/badass gear to play with while knowing everyone will ALWAYS be on the same level playing field.
Thank God I read your post though... phewwww.... almost wasted months trying to find that carrot which will no longer exist.
Im not teling you how you will enjoy the game.
Pretty gear can only last and satisfied for some players, when other players find that the effort they put in, in doing eveything, spending more time, still ends them up the same as the guy next door, there's no longer any incentive to put in more hard works/efforts.
Thus no longer have the need to play, till the next increase in level cap.
Yes there's some who hate tier gear, but its because of the way that its been implemented, that majority of the players is being left out.
But in gw2 its different, everyone can play, in-regardless of the class you playing, there's no limit!
Isn't it fair to say that 90% + of the people who have bought GW2 KNOWS there's no tier gear grind?
If yes, then wouldn't you also think it's fair to say these people know there won't be some magical tier system when they reach level cap?
If someone bought GW2, leveled all the way to 80 and then said WTF where is my raiding gear? I think they have a problem with simple research.
BTW - people in GW1 has been doing what you say "won't work" for many, many years and there's still people playing it and enjoying themselves. In short, you're speaking arbitrarily for the masses when it's going to be very few people with this problem. Furthermore, those people with that "problem" I'm sure will hit level cap, decide it isn't for them and move along to the next raid tiered themepark MMO that's released.... no big loss, this game certainly won't be for everyone and the people who WANT a tiered gear system can get one from the other hundred or so games that offer it.
So far you guys/girls have fun because its a new game. But once when you reach max level for a time, and there's no carrot on a stick to drive you forward, you will become bored of the game.
Since gw2 is about DE, i dont understand why they dont implement the tier with stats like , yes WoW.
There's no class system, eveyone can join in DE, no need exact numbers of tanks or healers or dps, they could just implement tier gear in gw2.
Making the game longer , ye a grind too, and yet all players is able to see the contents and get rewarded.
Stats gear is there for a reason, and with gw2 i personally think its such a waste not to have it, instead of just cool looking gear without it.
And i say again, it wont last long in " end-game"
Im so glad you took the time to tell me how I'll enjoy this game.
Let's ignore the fact I "grinded" for "pretty gear" for about 5 years in the original guild wars and loved it ....
I really wish you would have posted this before the game went to beta, you'd save everyone so much time and hassel knowing the game will be stale by level cap.
Now, I know you'll find this really hard to grasp, but some people really HATE the tiered WoW system (I know right?). It's true though.... some of us, LIKE the fact you upgrade your gear by having fun, doing dungeons for the sake of doing them and getting cool/badass gear to play with while knowing everyone will ALWAYS be on the same level playing field, especially in PVP. I think people are scared to death the tiered gear system will show how absolutely terrible skill-wise a player is, there's no more "well Ill just go here and get better gear so I can do more dungeons" without it actually mattering how good (or bad) a player is.
Thank God I read your post though... phewwww.... almost wasted months trying to find that carrot which will no longer exist.
Don't think arctarus was speaking about everyone, but in general, people need something to hold them in a game. It doesn't have to be new gear though. In Daoc, it was easy to max out your stats with crafted/spellcrafted gear.
The RvR was fun, and had meaning especially when darkness falls belonged to the realm controlling the most keeps. The thing that really kept people at it were the realm points and abilities you got from killing others in RvR. The extra skills allowed people to customize their characters further, add more flavor. I know people would have kept playing because it was fun, but probably not quite as many.
And compared to today, seems most jump from game to game because nothing can hold their attention, so just fun probably won't last all too long. People seem to think that you can only have fun or the carrot (gear, stats, skills etc), but it is possible and so much better when you have both.
Btw, not advocating the WoW gear treadmill, just saying it would be nice to have something extra that is impactful.
Isn't it fair to say that 90% + of the people who have bought GW2 KNOWS there's no tier gear grind?
If yes, then wouldn't you also think it's fair to say these people know there won't be some magical tier system when they reach level cap?
If someone bought GW2, leveled all the way to 80 and then said WTF where is my raiding gear? I think they have a problem with simple research.
BTW - people in GW1 has been doing what you say "won't work" for many, many years and there's still people playing it and enjoying themselves. In short, you're speaking arbitrarily for the masses when it's going to be very few people with this problem. Furthermore, those people with that "problem" I'm sure will hit level cap, decide it isn't for them and move along to the next raid tiered themepark MMO that's released.... no big loss, this game certainly won't be for everyone and the people who WANT a tiered gear system can get one from the other hundred or so games that offer it.
There's a difference between knowing ,and finally experiance it yourself, once you hit the max level and been there for sometime.
I myself have pre-purchase this game because of the DE and getting rid of the trinity ( thank you Anet! )
To experience how its going to work in mmo.
Gw1 players and gw 2 players will know when they bought this game, but the thing is, how long can it last , to captivate the crowd and thus making WvWvW healthy?
This game still needs a certain amount of populations, more so than other games to make WvW works.
I dont know how many players is still playing gw1 prior to the announcements of gw2, but if its something to screm about, even at 1mil, they would have said it. I only know that,iirc, they have sold 6.5 mil boxes in total.
And understand this, gw 1 is not an mmo, there's no need of a huge/healthy population on server for it to works.
I will tell you what i think happened to this game.It was taking too long to get finished,they decided to scrap a lot of ideas,no mounts,no guild halls,no housing,remove the stat idea just go with the gear we have made.In essence just get this game out for sale on what we have so far,this way we can always save stuff to sell in xpacs.
It's been known for literally years that there woul dbe no mounts, guild halls, or player housing in the game at launch. That's not something they 'removed', they already said huild halls and housing would be coming later, and that mounts are a maybe.
Also, I have no idea what you're talking about, removing the stat idea. There's a LOT of stats in GW2. Power, precision, vitality, toughness, boon duration, condition damage, condition duration, critical damage, healing power, and one class-specific stat for each stat.
There's even dialogue based stats of charm, nobility and fierceness.
They used to have even more, but they streamlined it by making all the various sorts of 'causes more damage' stats into one. That's actually just a solid design decision when you're trying to make a hybrid-heavy game where all combinations of weapons are equally viable.
The itemization on items is incredibly diverse, and at times, frankly pretty hilarious. I think my favorite enhancement I've seen is the Rune of the Flock. Depending upon how many pieces of it you have on your armor, it does this:
+25 healing
5% chance to summon a bird on your attack when hit. (cooldown: 10s)
When you use a healing skill you and nearby allies are healed a small amount. (cooldown: 10s)
Healing, with random chance of birds. This isn't the sort of stats and itemization you get because they were busy cutting things. There's a ridiculously wide range of stat effects and methods of customizing items in the game.
There's quite a few runes, and they're not even the only method of enhancing armor. You can put in various items found through crafting, drops, karma or node collecting into armor slots, some of them unique to a single seller, You can even take normal items like gems found through mining, and use a jeweler to enhance them with settings so they give better stat bonuses.
Seriously, it's a really nice flexible stat system with a ton of extremely customizable itemization. ... and now you know.
Taugrim does good videos, and this is one of them. Though you have to remember that he's a PVP player first and foremost.
So if your preferences align with his, he's a really solid caster to listen to. On the other hand, I don't think this one will really ease progression nuts' concerns. Some people just like the sense of progression tiered gear and raids bring.
Though, admittedly, players hang around for different reasons. I can keep a sub up for the setting alone...
So far you guys/girls have fun because its a new game. But once when you reach max level for a time, and there's no carrot on a stick to drive you forward, you will become bored of the game.
Since gw2 is about DE, i dont understand why they dont implement the tier with stats like , yes WoW.
There's no class system, eveyone can join in DE, no need exact numbers of tanks or healers or dps, they could just implement tier gear in gw2.
Making the game longer , ye a grind too, and yet all players is able to see the contents and get rewarded.
Stats gear is there for a reason, and with gw2 i personally think its such a waste not to have it, instead of just cool looking gear without it.
And i say again, it wont last long in " end-game"
It's called 'habituation.' All games have it. Including your raid grind-fest games. WoW lost over a million people in 2011 and almost 2 million in the past two years.
And SWTOR... Yeah, they tried to adopt WoW grind mechanics... They lost 900K of their first 2.3 million customers in 70 days... Seems that grinding gear all day long isn't quite the be-all, end-all of MMO gaming...
When LOTRO went F2P the subs boosted to over 600K. With the ROI expansion they brought back the gear grind they'd abandoned and most (but not all) of the people I played with, including myself, quit. After months and months of running dailies and grinding gear the game felt more like it was meaningless, dead-end, no-reward job and the people just got sick of it... And the subs dropped down to 200K a year later and the game has lost most of the F2P population gains.
So, color my skeptical your gear grind is all that meaningful or prevents habituation.
It's called 'habituation.' All games have it. Including your raid grind-fest games. WoW lost over a million people in 2011 and almost 2 million in the past two years.
Yeah, I never understood this argument. Or the whole idea that older games actually had more longevity. People quit older games, and people quit newer games faster. There's so many MMORPG choices, that nobody has to stick with a game they're bored with. ... and people are so used to them, that people are starting MMORPGs and already feeling like they've played it forever (SWTOR could have kept people a lot longer on average if it had been... say.... everybody's first MMORPG ever.)
There's more choices, and people have already been playing MMORPGs for years and years. That's like a recipe for people to be much more likely to hop games relatively quickly.
It's like TV. People are more likely to swap channels when they have about 500 choices, instead of 5.
except wvwvw isn't fun. The first few hours was new and interesting, but after that it became a simple zerg fest and if you died it took 5m to get back into the fight. The combat is the only aspect that makes it interesting otherwise its just like every other pvp game.
Which is pretty much like every other MMO combat strategy. I know people like to pretend they have strategies, and each and every PvPer seems to think of himself as a hybrid of Clausewitz and Miyamoto Musashi, but they really aren't. and they really don't beyond some very loose 'concentrate on one dude, kill the healers first' kind of strategy. And mostly, they just zerg and try to spike everyone down.
Now, if there was perma-death, like Day Z, we might see some strategies besides running out there and trying to spike everyone into oblivion, regardless of the consequences. But then the PvPers would whine about that.
People throw that word around here so much its pretty much lost all meaning. People think they can say "because its fun" when describing GW2 that that alone will absolve them of any further explanations. As if anyone that disagrees hates "fun".
You've missed the point. The basic charge is that without the gear treadmill of WoW, there is no point to, or is lacking, 'the end game.' The counter-response is that the point of the game is 'to have fun' and that there are many ways to accomplish this within the game.
It is further pointed out that there are raids. There is gear grinding (cosmetic). That there is both WvW and structured PvP. That, because of the level nomalization, you can actually play every area in the game 'at level' and have a great time doing it. For example, if you started as a Norn and hit level 80, you can always go back to the Asura starting zone for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKNzICBUzOs&list=FLinH0R1gEeK8m_2Y5kPK2uA&index=1&feature=plpp_video
That looks completely amazing. I missed it. I had to log off right after I finished the heart quest and final DE in area. But I may have missed it anyway that area was a royal pain in the butt with the incredible monster spawn rate and I was very tired because it was late.
But now that I know about it... Yeah, I'll be back...
MMo´s have turned way to much in the way we rise our kids, for everything they do good they get a present. We have grown attached to that attitude. When i was a little lad over 40 years ago, i was glad with a few nice words from my father about how well i performed at school. We need to go back to the basics. Was it fun?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Comments
Amen!
Actually, there ARE increasing tiers of gear. You'll find them at armorsmith and guild vendors in the main cities. There's gear for level 10, 15, 20, etc., and you can just buy (for very cheap) the entire set for that level. The "tier" vendors even have "tier" over their heads in their title. Those gears are the better gears and I think they're about a gold an item. But there are also level gear vendors, like I said, for 10, 15, level 20, etc. This gear is not GREATLY different than the previous levels, but it does have higher stats (by some).
The point of playing the game is to have fun. I remember fun. I'm happy to have a game that supports going back to the days of HAVING fun and not feeling like your game is a second full time JOB.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Then it will forever remain a zergfest. If it can be done easily as a zergfest, what exactly is this motivation to play well?
It can't be done easily as a zergfest, supply camps have to be held and REMAIN held, siege weapons have to be built and used, sustained healing and projectile deflection/reflection/blocking has to be employed. The zerg cannot manage that without some sort of organization and if they employ that kind of organization, they can no longer be called a zerg.
The game play supports players running around in a large blob attacking wherever there is a set of crossed swords on the map. This is what a lot of people are going to do. There are also players who will repair walls, man or place siege weapons, call out attacks, etc. and it's designed for this as well.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
nice write-up and glad you saw how fun WvWvW can be:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
so not true, if you zerg in wvw you'll get torn apart by a server that plays the right way..like getting supply to fortify their keeps and getting the help of npc races. so you continue zerging but when you try zerg my keep i'll cut you down.
When refering to tiered gear it usually is a endgame thing IE wow tier 1 is the armor you can (or could) get in molten core, not the first white item or the 60 dungeon set (altough that might have been called tier 0)
But what is "fun"?
Can you quantify "fun"?
Can you see, taste or hear "fun"?
What is "fun" to you? What is "fun" to me?
People throw that word around here so much its pretty much lost all meaning. People think they can say "because its fun" when describing GW2 that that alone will absolve them of any further explanations. As if anyone that disagrees hates "fun".
Ahh, dungeon tier gear. Yeah, well....I had plenty of that in WoW and I'm glad I no longer have to work like a dog for gear. I was not thrilled with the gear grind in WoW, particularly since it started over from scratch every expansion. What a waste of my time. Thank goodness for GW2 and going back to playing for FUN. And I might happily grind some appearance gear to look "cool."
Mostly because....I don't feel like I HAVE to do it.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Fun can only get you so far.
So far you guys/girls have fun because its a new game. But once when you reach max level for a time, and there's no carrot on a stick to drive you forward, you will become bored of the game.
Since gw2 is about DE, i dont understand why they dont implement the tier with stats like , yes WoW.
There's no class system, eveyone can join in DE, no need exact numbers of tanks or healers or dps, they could just implement tier gear in gw2.
Making the game longer , ye a grind too, and yet all players is able to see the contents and get rewarded.
Stats gear is there for a reason, and with gw2 i personally think its such a waste not to have it, instead of just cool looking gear without it.
And i say again, it wont last long in " end-game"
RIP Orc Choppa
Fun is different to everyone. When I say "fun" I'm referring to what is fun to ME. I'm aware of the fact that MY fun doesn't translate to anyone else necessarily, unless they have the same preferences as I do.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Im so glad you took the time to tell me how I'll enjoy this game.
Let's ignore the fact I "grinded" for "pretty gear" for about 5 years in the original guild wars and loved it ....
I really wish you would have posted this before the game went to beta, you'd save everyone so much time and hassel knowing the game will be stale by level cap.
Now, I know you'll find this really hard to grasp, but some people really HATE the tiered WoW system (I know right?). It's true though.... some of us, LIKE the fact you upgrade your gear by having fun, doing dungeons for the sake of doing them and getting cool/badass gear to play with while knowing everyone will ALWAYS be on the same level playing field, especially in PVP. I think people are scared to death the tiered gear system will show how absolutely terrible skill-wise a player is, there's no more "well Ill just go here and get better gear so I can do more dungeons" without it actually mattering how good (or bad) a player is.
Thank God I read your post though... phewwww.... almost wasted months trying to find that carrot which will no longer exist.
Im not teling you how you will enjoy the game.
Pretty gear can only last and satisfied for some players, when other players find that the effort they put in, in doing eveything, spending more time, still ends them up the same as the guy next door, there's no longer any incentive to put in more hard works/efforts.
Thus no longer have the need to play, till the next increase in level cap.
Yes there's some who hate tier gear, but its because of the way that its been implemented, that majority of the players is being left out.
But in gw2 its different, everyone can play, in-regardless of the class you playing, there's no limit!
RIP Orc Choppa
Isn't it fair to say that 90% + of the people who have bought GW2 KNOWS there's no tier gear grind?
If yes, then wouldn't you also think it's fair to say these people know there won't be some magical tier system when they reach level cap?
If someone bought GW2, leveled all the way to 80 and then said WTF where is my raiding gear? I think they have a problem with simple research.
BTW - people in GW1 has been doing what you say "won't work" for many, many years and there's still people playing it and enjoying themselves. In short, you're speaking arbitrarily for the masses when it's going to be very few people with this problem. Furthermore, those people with that "problem" I'm sure will hit level cap, decide it isn't for them and move along to the next raid tiered themepark MMO that's released.... no big loss, this game certainly won't be for everyone and the people who WANT a tiered gear system can get one from the other hundred or so games that offer it.
Don't think arctarus was speaking about everyone, but in general, people need something to hold them in a game. It doesn't have to be new gear though. In Daoc, it was easy to max out your stats with crafted/spellcrafted gear.
The RvR was fun, and had meaning especially when darkness falls belonged to the realm controlling the most keeps. The thing that really kept people at it were the realm points and abilities you got from killing others in RvR. The extra skills allowed people to customize their characters further, add more flavor. I know people would have kept playing because it was fun, but probably not quite as many.
And compared to today, seems most jump from game to game because nothing can hold their attention, so just fun probably won't last all too long. People seem to think that you can only have fun or the carrot (gear, stats, skills etc), but it is possible and so much better when you have both.
Btw, not advocating the WoW gear treadmill, just saying it would be nice to have something extra that is impactful.
For all of you that "need" more progression you can PM me everytime you kill 150 mobs and I will send you a shiny new title.
There's a difference between knowing ,and finally experiance it yourself, once you hit the max level and been there for sometime.
I myself have pre-purchase this game because of the DE and getting rid of the trinity ( thank you Anet! )
To experience how its going to work in mmo.
Gw1 players and gw 2 players will know when they bought this game, but the thing is, how long can it last , to captivate the crowd and thus making WvWvW healthy?
This game still needs a certain amount of populations, more so than other games to make WvW works.
I dont know how many players is still playing gw1 prior to the announcements of gw2, but if its something to screm about, even at 1mil, they would have said it. I only know that,iirc, they have sold 6.5 mil boxes in total.
And understand this, gw 1 is not an mmo, there's no need of a huge/healthy population on server for it to works.
Just my view
RIP Orc Choppa
It's been known for literally years that there woul dbe no mounts, guild halls, or player housing in the game at launch. That's not something they 'removed', they already said huild halls and housing would be coming later, and that mounts are a maybe.
Also, I have no idea what you're talking about, removing the stat idea. There's a LOT of stats in GW2. Power, precision, vitality, toughness, boon duration, condition damage, condition duration, critical damage, healing power, and one class-specific stat for each stat.
There's even dialogue based stats of charm, nobility and fierceness.
They used to have even more, but they streamlined it by making all the various sorts of 'causes more damage' stats into one. That's actually just a solid design decision when you're trying to make a hybrid-heavy game where all combinations of weapons are equally viable.
The itemization on items is incredibly diverse, and at times, frankly pretty hilarious. I think my favorite enhancement I've seen is the Rune of the Flock. Depending upon how many pieces of it you have on your armor, it does this:
Healing, with random chance of birds. This isn't the sort of stats and itemization you get because they were busy cutting things. There's a ridiculously wide range of stat effects and methods of customizing items in the game.
There's quite a few runes, and they're not even the only method of enhancing armor. You can put in various items found through crafting, drops, karma or node collecting into armor slots, some of them unique to a single seller, You can even take normal items like gems found through mining, and use a jeweler to enhance them with settings so they give better stat bonuses.
Seriously, it's a really nice flexible stat system with a ton of extremely customizable itemization. ... and now you know.
Taugrim does good videos, and this is one of them. Though you have to remember that he's a PVP player first and foremost.
So if your preferences align with his, he's a really solid caster to listen to. On the other hand, I don't think this one will really ease progression nuts' concerns. Some people just like the sense of progression tiered gear and raids bring.
Though, admittedly, players hang around for different reasons. I can keep a sub up for the setting alone...
It's called 'habituation.' All games have it. Including your raid grind-fest games. WoW lost over a million people in 2011 and almost 2 million in the past two years.
And SWTOR... Yeah, they tried to adopt WoW grind mechanics... They lost 900K of their first 2.3 million customers in 70 days... Seems that grinding gear all day long isn't quite the be-all, end-all of MMO gaming...
When LOTRO went F2P the subs boosted to over 600K. With the ROI expansion they brought back the gear grind they'd abandoned and most (but not all) of the people I played with, including myself, quit. After months and months of running dailies and grinding gear the game felt more like it was meaningless, dead-end, no-reward job and the people just got sick of it... And the subs dropped down to 200K a year later and the game has lost most of the F2P population gains.
So, color my skeptical your gear grind is all that meaningful or prevents habituation.
Yeah, I never understood this argument. Or the whole idea that older games actually had more longevity. People quit older games, and people quit newer games faster. There's so many MMORPG choices, that nobody has to stick with a game they're bored with. ... and people are so used to them, that people are starting MMORPGs and already feeling like they've played it forever (SWTOR could have kept people a lot longer on average if it had been... say.... everybody's first MMORPG ever.)
There's more choices, and people have already been playing MMORPGs for years and years. That's like a recipe for people to be much more likely to hop games relatively quickly.
It's like TV. People are more likely to swap channels when they have about 500 choices, instead of 5.
Which is pretty much like every other MMO combat strategy. I know people like to pretend they have strategies, and each and every PvPer seems to think of himself as a hybrid of Clausewitz and Miyamoto Musashi, but they really aren't. and they really don't beyond some very loose 'concentrate on one dude, kill the healers first' kind of strategy. And mostly, they just zerg and try to spike everyone down.
Now, if there was perma-death, like Day Z, we might see some strategies besides running out there and trying to spike everyone into oblivion, regardless of the consequences. But then the PvPers would whine about that.
You've missed the point. The basic charge is that without the gear treadmill of WoW, there is no point to, or is lacking, 'the end game.' The counter-response is that the point of the game is 'to have fun' and that there are many ways to accomplish this within the game.
It is further pointed out that there are raids. There is gear grinding (cosmetic). That there is both WvW and structured PvP. That, because of the level nomalization, you can actually play every area in the game 'at level' and have a great time doing it. For example, if you started as a Norn and hit level 80, you can always go back to the Asura starting zone for this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKNzICBUzOs&list=FLinH0R1gEeK8m_2Y5kPK2uA&index=1&feature=plpp_video
That looks completely amazing. I missed it. I had to log off right after I finished the heart quest and final DE in area. But I may have missed it anyway that area was a royal pain in the butt with the incredible monster spawn rate and I was very tired because it was late.
But now that I know about it... Yeah, I'll be back...
Indeed
and better looking gear to help people further customize/express themselves.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Whats the point of playing chess?
MMo´s have turned way to much in the way we rise our kids, for everything they do good they get a present. We have grown attached to that attitude. When i was a little lad over 40 years ago, i was glad with a few nice words from my father about how well i performed at school. We need to go back to the basics. Was it fun?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Well to be fair, some people find the treadmill gear fun. This just isn't that type of game.