Great example of a rune meowhead, not seen that one, brilliant!
Let's not forget that by end game you are going to be needing a diverse set of gear so you can switch stats to suit the encounter, this is what horizontal progression should be about, building flexibility in to your character. If you spec for just one of GW2s trinity you won't be getting the most out of your class. There are stats to chase it's just they won't make you all round more powerful just better in a given situation.
Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online.
Heres what i know, zero gear progression only works in games with heavy story. Guild wars 2 does not have heavy story, it barely has any story.
You cant have no story and no progression and expect people to play for longer then a weekend.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online.
I hope that, that +50 strength gauntlet has really helped you in real life. Oh wait....it hasn't? That's right, it only exists within the game.
Everything in a game is an illusion. Once you realize this, grinding for cosmetic gear doesn't seem any different than grinding for stat gear. At least with the cosmetic gear grind I get to choose what I want to grind for, and I'm not forced into a vertical progression.
.... I would have thought a better example would be nearly any FPS or puzzle game or.... well, all the variety of games throughout human experience that have proven incredibly addicting that don't actually involve stat progression.
Minecraft can be argued to have a progression, in that you can build increasingly elaborate structures with increasingly elaborate ingredients... as opposed to say Tetris, where it'd be hard to argue for any form of progression whatsoever, but where people can sink literally hundreds, even thousands of hours into it.
Also, I think some people are underselling just how much non-cosmetic things there are to do in GW2.
From some pretty intensive playing, between me and 4 friends, I only ever got ONE of a specific crafting ingredient that's for armorsmithing 25 (Basically really low level stuff), that allowed me to make a certain rune.
There's some pretty crazy rare drops in the game that'd let you craft certain very specific types of itemization. NOt BETTER stats, but the horizontal stuff, nobody is sure just how deep it goes chasing the perfectly tuned equipment for a build yet. A lot longer than the original 100 hours just to hit max level, from the looks of it.
Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online.
Heres what i know, zero gear progression only works in games with heavy story. Guild wars 2 does not have heavy story, it barely has any story.
You cant have no story and no progression and expect people to play for longer then a weekend.
Yeah because no one plays Minecraft right ?
Is minecraft an MMO? Or is minecraft a closet Sandbox that people play so they can build the enterprise and show it off on youtube.
Last i checked, minecraft wasnt about getting 10000 simultanous players at once to fight each other.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online.
I hope that, that +50 strength gauntlet has really helped you in real life. Oh wait....it hasn't? That's right, it only exists within the game.
Everything in a game is an illusion. Once you realize this, grinding for cosmetic gear doesn't seem any different than grinding for stat gear. At least with the cosmetic gear grind I get to choose what I want to grind for, and I'm not forced into a vertical progression.
I dont play games because im trying to stay as close to real life as possible, im slaying dragons for christsakes.
Gear is an illusion, that sense of accomplishment isnt however, and when i cleared that hard raid boss that took my guild 3 weeks to figure out, we didnt do it just so we could find a pink dress that only drops off that boss. We did it for that bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and made you think deep down inside that it could never be you.
And we moved on from raids because we had all the gear we needed to try a harder teir.
I just dont see the substance of having no story, no progression and being able to instantly create a max level character to pvp with.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online.
I hope that, that +50 strength gauntlet has really helped you in real life. Oh wait....it hasn't? That's right, it only exists within the game.
Everything in a game is an illusion. Once you realize this, grinding for cosmetic gear doesn't seem any different than grinding for stat gear. At least with the cosmetic gear grind I get to choose what I want to grind for, and I'm not forced into a vertical progression.
I dont play games because im trying to stay as close to real life as possible, im slaying dragons for christsakes.
Gear is an illusion, that sense of accomplishment isnt however, and when i cleared that hard raid boss that took my guild 3 weeks to figure out, we didnt do it just so we could find a pink dress that only drops off that boss. We did it for that bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and made you think deep down inside that it could never be you.
And we moved on from raids because we had all the gear we needed to try a harder teir.
I just dont see the substance of having no story, no progression and being able to instantly create a max level character to pvp with.
I'm thrilled for you that you found the game you want to play and love.
It's a bit sad that you can't see why I or others love GW2 and its fresh and different design, but trust me we'll be having just as much or more fun in GW2 as you and your friends have in your game of choice - and with all of us having fun that's all that really matters, eh?
Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online.
Heres what i know, zero gear progression only works in games with heavy story. Guild wars 2 does not have heavy story, it barely has any story.
You cant have no story and no progression and expect people to play for longer then a weekend.
so, where is the actual fun in farming better gear to get into the next lvl to farm more gear, which will be too low on the next update again to farm for new gear again and again and again?
basically thats the prime expample of a sisyphus work. not really fun, ask poor old sisyphus
FUN is definied by everyone himself i guess, but hell.... you tell us what is fun, we tell you, fair deal i guess :P
imo it's much more fun to play games just for THAT particular reason, to play it. you do not need rewards that show how cool you are, and then give you stats to prove this coolness. if you are cool, you just are. ask the cool guys, they know
to shorten it: maybe not the worst that you wont play it longer than a WE.
ps: you are the one talking about barbies here, not us, think about it ^^
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
Originally posted by Stayonboard Originally posted by arctarusOriginally posted by Stayonboard
Im so glad you took the time to tell me how I'll enjoy this game.Let's ignore the fact I "grinded" for "pretty gear" for about 5 years in the original guild wars and loved it .... I really wish you would have posted this before the game went to beta, you'd save everyone so much time and hassel knowing the game will be stale by level cap. Now, I know you'll find this really hard to grasp, but some people really HATE the tiered WoW system (I know right?). It's true though.... some of us, LIKE the fact you upgrade your gear by having fun, doing dungeons for the sake of doing them and getting cool/badass gear to play with while knowing everyone will ALWAYS be on the same level playing field.Thank God I read your post though... phewwww.... almost wasted months trying to find that carrot which will no longer exist.Im not teling you how you will enjoy the game.Pretty gear can only last and satisfied for some players, when other players find that the effort they put in, in doing eveything, spending more time, still ends them up the same as the guy next door, there's no longer any incentive to put in more hard works/efforts.Thus no longer have the need to play, till the next increase in level cap.Yes there's some who hate tier gear, but its because of the way that its been implemented, that majority of the players is being left out.But in gw2 its different, everyone can play, in-regardless of the class you playing, there's no limit!Isn't it fair to say that 90% + of the people who have bought GW2 KNOWS there's no tier gear grind?
If yes, then wouldn't you also think it's fair to say these people know there won't be some magical tier system when they reach level cap?
If someone bought GW2, leveled all the way to 80 and then said WTF where is my raiding gear? I think they have a problem with simple research.
BTW - people in GW1 has been doing what you say "won't work" for many, many years and there's still people playing it and enjoying themselves. In short, you're speaking arbitrarily for the masses when it's going to be very few people with this problem. Furthermore, those people with that "problem" I'm sure will hit level cap, decide it isn't for them and move along to the next raid tiered themepark MMO that's released.... no big loss, this game certainly won't be for everyone and the people who WANT a tiered gear system can get one from the other hundred or so games that offer it.
I do not want any type of gear grind. I want a pvp based game. I want to join a guild built around teamwork and co-operation. When I log into the game and take part in the battles I want to be fighting for something and a purpose. I don't want to be in a situation where we are beat by haves and have not circumstances. I know that siege weapons will be at the forefront of this argument for a little while but I expect that currency flow and organization will balance that situation out over time.
In the past I have watched plenty of great pvpers get sidetracked by the gear grind. They spend so much time working on the gear that they don't participate effectively in the pvp especially when they must also farm for money and or items. Lower level players also avoid pvp under the gear grind conditions because they feel ineffective and thus stay away until they reach "end game". With this design low level players will have a purpose to level up but should not fear being useful along the way.
For me this is the best result. I can level casually and enjoy exploration but still participate in the pvp without being entirely useless.
I dont play games because im trying to stay as close to real life as possible, im slaying dragons for christsakes.
Gear is an illusion, that sense of accomplishment isnt however, and when i cleared that hard raid boss that took my guild 3 weeks to figure out, we didnt do it just so we could find a pink dress that only drops off that boss. We did it for that bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and made you think deep down inside that it could never be you.
And we moved on from raids because we had all the gear we needed to try a harder teir.
I just dont see the substance of having no story, no progression and being able to instantly create a max level character to pvp with.
Many, many MMOs have a tiered gear treadmill. If you like that kind of gameplay then great. In most of these games, the next tier has higher stats than the previous one, and in most cases you need those extra stats in order to clear the content.
GW2 approaches the genre differently.
However, you can still get that "bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and maybe you think deep down inside that it could never be you."
There are a TON of visually impressive things to farm in the game, and you can show that off in order to, I assume, bolster your self-esteem or whatever it is that you get from dancing on the mailbox. These items will take significant time and/or effort to get and they will be rare, they just won't have the stats.
So what's the problem?
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Originally posted by DeserttFoxx Farming cosmetic gear is fun? Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online. Heres what i know, zero gear progression only works in games with heavy story. Guild wars 2 does not have heavy story, it barely has any story. You cant have no story and no progression and expect people to play for longer then a weekend.
I have no objections if the ADD community and gear over skill players find their fix somewhere else.
I might find a few pieces of gear that look interesting and thus provide a purpose for me to pursue, but the truth is I do not play MMOs for any type of gear. I play because it is entertaining. I love great co-operative and on going pvp. I like knowing that all my hard work the night before or day before is at risk while I am at work or sleeping. War zones do not provide this. I also like knowing that when I kill other players it is due to skill and tactics and not because they have 16 hours a day to grind and enchant gear while I have 4 hours a day to do the same things.
If that is playing Barbies...so be it. Truth is a 3D pixel character is in a sense just a doll, not much different than any action figure we have ever played with as children be it GI Joe, transformers, or a collections of Army/Navy/Marine figures. All we have achieved is the animation of our imaginations. I endorse that.
I dont play games because im trying to stay as close to real life as possible, im slaying dragons for christsakes.
Gear is an illusion, that sense of accomplishment isnt however, and when i cleared that hard raid boss that took my guild 3 weeks to figure out, we didnt do it just so we could find a pink dress that only drops off that boss. We did it for that bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and made you think deep down inside that it could never be you.
And we moved on from raids because we had all the gear we needed to try a harder teir.
I just dont see the substance of having no story, no progression and being able to instantly create a max level character to pvp with.
Many, many MMOs have a tiered gear treadmill. If you like that kind of gameplay then great. In most of these games, the next tier has higher stats than the previous one, and in most cases you need those extra stats in order to clear the content.
GW2 approaches the genre differently.
However, you can still get that "bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and maybe you think deep down inside that it could never be you."
There are a TON of visually impressive things to farm in the game, and you can show that off in order to, I assume, bolster your self-esteem or whatever it is that you get from dancing on the mailbox. These items will take significant time and/or effort to get and they will be rare, they just won't have the stats.
Comments
Great example of a rune meowhead, not seen that one, brilliant!
Let's not forget that by end game you are going to be needing a diverse set of gear so you can switch stats to suit the encounter, this is what horizontal progression should be about, building flexibility in to your character. If you spec for just one of GW2s trinity you won't be getting the most out of your class. There are stats to chase it's just they won't make you all round more powerful just better in a given situation.
Beyond that they just look so damn nice
Farming cosmetic gear is fun?
Didnt realize you were all signed up to play barbies playhouse online.
Heres what i know, zero gear progression only works in games with heavy story. Guild wars 2 does not have heavy story, it barely has any story.
You cant have no story and no progression and expect people to play for longer then a weekend.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I hope that, that +50 strength gauntlet has really helped you in real life. Oh wait....it hasn't? That's right, it only exists within the game.
Everything in a game is an illusion. Once you realize this, grinding for cosmetic gear doesn't seem any different than grinding for stat gear. At least with the cosmetic gear grind I get to choose what I want to grind for, and I'm not forced into a vertical progression.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Yeah because no one plays Minecraft right
?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
.... I would have thought a better example would be nearly any FPS or puzzle game or.... well, all the variety of games throughout human experience that have proven incredibly addicting that don't actually involve stat progression.
Minecraft can be argued to have a progression, in that you can build increasingly elaborate structures with increasingly elaborate ingredients... as opposed to say Tetris, where it'd be hard to argue for any form of progression whatsoever, but where people can sink literally hundreds, even thousands of hours into it.
Also, I think some people are underselling just how much non-cosmetic things there are to do in GW2.
From some pretty intensive playing, between me and 4 friends, I only ever got ONE of a specific crafting ingredient that's for armorsmithing 25 (Basically really low level stuff), that allowed me to make a certain rune.
There's some pretty crazy rare drops in the game that'd let you craft certain very specific types of itemization. NOt BETTER stats, but the horizontal stuff, nobody is sure just how deep it goes chasing the perfectly tuned equipment for a build yet. A lot longer than the original 100 hours just to hit max level, from the looks of it.
Is minecraft an MMO? Or is minecraft a closet Sandbox that people play so they can build the enterprise and show it off on youtube.
Last i checked, minecraft wasnt about getting 10000 simultanous players at once to fight each other.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I dont play games because im trying to stay as close to real life as possible, im slaying dragons for christsakes.
Gear is an illusion, that sense of accomplishment isnt however, and when i cleared that hard raid boss that took my guild 3 weeks to figure out, we didnt do it just so we could find a pink dress that only drops off that boss. We did it for that bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and made you think deep down inside that it could never be you.
And we moved on from raids because we had all the gear we needed to try a harder teir.
I just dont see the substance of having no story, no progression and being able to instantly create a max level character to pvp with.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
I'm thrilled for you that you found the game you want to play and love.
It's a bit sad that you can't see why I or others love GW2 and its fresh and different design, but trust me we'll be having just as much or more fun in GW2 as you and your friends have in your game of choice - and with all of us having fun that's all that really matters, eh?
so, where is the actual fun in farming better gear to get into the next lvl to farm more gear, which will be too low on the next update again to farm for new gear again and again and again?
basically thats the prime expample of a sisyphus work. not really fun, ask poor old sisyphus
FUN is definied by everyone himself i guess, but hell.... you tell us what is fun, we tell you, fair deal i guess :P
imo it's much more fun to play games just for THAT particular reason, to play it. you do not need rewards that show how cool you are, and then give you stats to prove this coolness. if you are cool, you just are. ask the cool guys, they know
to shorten it: maybe not the worst that you wont play it longer than a WE.
ps: you are the one talking about barbies here, not us, think about it ^^
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid and i did it anyway!"
Im not teling you how you will enjoy the game. Pretty gear can only last and satisfied for some players, when other players find that the effort they put in, in doing eveything, spending more time, still ends them up the same as the guy next door, there's no longer any incentive to put in more hard works/efforts. Thus no longer have the need to play, till the next increase in level cap. Yes there's some who hate tier gear, but its because of the way that its been implemented, that majority of the players is being left out. But in gw2 its different, everyone can play, in-regardless of the class you playing, there's no limit!
Isn't it fair to say that 90% + of the people who have bought GW2 KNOWS there's no tier gear grind?
If yes, then wouldn't you also think it's fair to say these people know there won't be some magical tier system when they reach level cap?
If someone bought GW2, leveled all the way to 80 and then said WTF where is my raiding gear? I think they have a problem with simple research.
BTW - people in GW1 has been doing what you say "won't work" for many, many years and there's still people playing it and enjoying themselves. In short, you're speaking arbitrarily for the masses when it's going to be very few people with this problem. Furthermore, those people with that "problem" I'm sure will hit level cap, decide it isn't for them and move along to the next raid tiered themepark MMO that's released.... no big loss, this game certainly won't be for everyone and the people who WANT a tiered gear system can get one from the other hundred or so games that offer it.
I do not want any type of gear grind. I want a pvp based game. I want to join a guild built around teamwork and co-operation. When I log into the game and take part in the battles I want to be fighting for something and a purpose. I don't want to be in a situation where we are beat by haves and have not circumstances. I know that siege weapons will be at the forefront of this argument for a little while but I expect that currency flow and organization will balance that situation out over time.
In the past I have watched plenty of great pvpers get sidetracked by the gear grind. They spend so much time working on the gear that they don't participate effectively in the pvp especially when they must also farm for money and or items. Lower level players also avoid pvp under the gear grind conditions because they feel ineffective and thus stay away until they reach "end game". With this design low level players will have a purpose to level up but should not fear being useful along the way.
For me this is the best result. I can level casually and enjoy exploration but still participate in the pvp without being entirely useless.
Many, many MMOs have a tiered gear treadmill. If you like that kind of gameplay then great. In most of these games, the next tier has higher stats than the previous one, and in most cases you need those extra stats in order to clear the content.
GW2 approaches the genre differently.
However, you can still get that "bad ass flaming sword with the dragons head for a hilt and the tail for a handle, you know, the one you saw while dancing naked on the mailbox in town and maybe you think deep down inside that it could never be you."
There are a TON of visually impressive things to farm in the game, and you can show that off in order to, I assume, bolster your self-esteem or whatever it is that you get from dancing on the mailbox. These items will take significant time and/or effort to get and they will be rare, they just won't have the stats.
So what's the problem?
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I have no objections if the ADD community and gear over skill players find their fix somewhere else.
I might find a few pieces of gear that look interesting and thus provide a purpose for me to pursue, but the truth is I do not play MMOs for any type of gear. I play because it is entertaining. I love great co-operative and on going pvp. I like knowing that all my hard work the night before or day before is at risk while I am at work or sleeping. War zones do not provide this. I also like knowing that when I kill other players it is due to skill and tactics and not because they have 16 hours a day to grind and enchant gear while I have 4 hours a day to do the same things.
If that is playing Barbies...so be it. Truth is a 3D pixel character is in a sense just a doll, not much different than any action figure we have ever played with as children be it GI Joe, transformers, or a collections of Army/Navy/Marine figures. All we have achieved is the animation of our imaginations. I endorse that.
No Mailboxes...
I'm sure that's his REAL issue >.>
/mischevious
err for fun