Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i think a lot of us would just be happy with a simple title progression system or some sort of goal to work towards longterm other then that stupid year long goals they just added on the fly last beta event. Fun is very very subjective , you might just like taking keeps in a giant zerge and another guy might like ganking stragglers. Myself I like to feel a little progression in character development when I pvp, though I hate gear grinds like other games. Point is its not going to hurt them to add in some sort of progression in world vs world and they know that. The main thing is just keeping it in balance so it doesnt make toons who do it way more then others very powerful. Remember in DAOC when TOA released and the elite power gamer guilds finished their ML first and RvR was a complete nightmare? TOA killed DAOC for a lot of people by adding in really powerful artifacts and MLs. ANet doesnt want to make that same mistake but I am sure they have something in the works after release to expand it.
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
the mystic forge is one seriously hardcore grind to anyone who seen it for the legendary weapons. Its 200 skill points per weapon and a very very large gold sink I was not at all impressed and think its WAY over the top for being a anti grind game.
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
But those aren't exactly purely PvP rewards. You need PvP incentives.
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
the mystic forge is one seriously hardcore grind to anyone who seen it for the legendary weapons. Its 200 skill points per weapon and a very very large gold sink I was not at all impressed and think its WAY over the top for being a anti grind game.
so people complain there's nothing to look forward to or work towards in WvWvW although there is but its now worthless because it's too much of a time sink? Forge is for people who want to work towards something its optional and you will get rewarded with some amazing looking weapons as result.. not seeing the huge issue here.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
But those aren't exactly purely PvP rewards. You need PvP incentives.
lugging around a legendary weapon in WvWvW is incentive enough for me.. your mileage may vary. Also structured PVP has plenty of incentives if you want only PVP incentives
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
But those aren't exactly purely PvP rewards. You need PvP incentives.
lugging around a legendary weapon in WvWvW is incentive enough for me.. your mileage may vary. Also structured PVP has plenty of incentives if you want only PVP incentives
You can get points for the Forge outside of PvP, no? If so, then it's not really a PvP incentive.
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
But those aren't exactly purely PvP rewards. You need PvP incentives.
lugging around a legendary weapon in WvWvW is incentive enough for me.. your mileage may vary. Also structured PVP has plenty of incentives if you want only PVP incentives
You can get points for the Forge outside of PvP, no? If so, then it's not really a PvP incentive.
again its all perspective for me to been seen on the battlefield with a legendary weapon is a pvp incentive just because i can get the item through PVE as well to me doesn't make it any less an incentive to want to get one.. if you only PVP then it's something you can strive for by only doing PVP.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Like the OP, I sort of cringe when people compare GW2's WvWvW to DAOC's RvR. It's not, for several key reasons.
1) There are no realm ranks/abilities which you gain from your PVP activties. Chosing which specific abilities to spend you points was practically a game within itself, especially when defining your role in combat.
2) No Darkness Falls. One of the biggest reasons for me to go RVR to take the keeps was because I wanted to get into Darkness falls which at first offered decent gear, (got my first glowy sword there) but later offered drops (marks?) which could be crafted into significant income. Also, I thought DF was just plain great fun. I'd log off in there with my stealther, let the other side take it, then go out into the lower levels of the dungeon and gank the snot of people who were at a disadvantage. Also was great fun clearing out the other side.
3) Eventually I grew tired of DAOC's RVR servers, because they became pointless excercises in taking and retaking keeps which no one really cared about. In the FFA server Mordred, guilds actually claimed specific keeps as their own and did their best to defend and retain them as such. This could happen in GW2, but I'm guessing probably not, especially with the server switching every two weeks. Also the FFA servers were less "zergy" and a well put together 8 man could really use their skill to devestate others.
See, in the end, I don't PVP for fun, but only for profit, territory/resource control and denial of the same to others. I'm just not seeing GW2 being that sort of PVP end game so likely my tenure there will be for a few months while I enjoy the other aspects of the title.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The most fun and immersive form of character PVP progression (and indeed, incentive) is good fights, beating people in PVP, teabagging their corpse(s), taking their stuff (if it's a real full-loot game) and reading the QQ about how overpowered whatever-they-got-killed-by is.
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
the mystic forge is one seriously hardcore grind to anyone who seen it for the legendary weapons. Its 200 skill points per weapon and a very very large gold sink I was not at all impressed and think its WAY over the top for being a anti grind game.
so people complain there's nothing to look forward to or work towards in WvWvW although there is but its now worthless because it's too much of a time sink? Forge is for people who want to work towards something its optional and you will get rewarded with some amazing looking weapons as result.. not seeing the huge issue here.
unless Anet adds in extra skill pts everytime you level past 80 your talking 200 levels worth of skill points. You are right its a long term goal to work towards probably a good year for most people or maybe longer . Its not anything to compare to though for pvp its not a realistic goal to achieve in pvp. Yes it can be done through pvp entirely but a lot of us just want something to gain also in relation to world vs world. Like ive said in many threads i push for a realm point system all the time and trust me they have heard it so I do not see something wrong with others doing the same thing if in the end the goal is achieved and it makes the game a lot more fun to most others. The mystic forge is just not a realistic idea for pvpers who want to pvp and earn other forms of rewards. Heck if you want to get techincal with the current payout being dominate servers win more exp, karma, and money. It would be much faster just to grind that out in pve instead. Like I said I just want to see world vs world abilities that effect keep battles and siege . Add in the old stuff like wall scalling abilites similiar to rogue subclasses in DAOC . Add in a determination ability like classes had in DAOC . Heck give me a thorn weed field again and an unquinchable thirst for souls! ya i was a reaver hate me!
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
the mystic forge is one seriously hardcore grind to anyone who seen it for the legendary weapons. Its 200 skill points per weapon and a very very large gold sink I was not at all impressed and think its WAY over the top for being a anti grind game.
so people complain there's nothing to look forward to or work towards in WvWvW although there is but its now worthless because it's too much of a time sink? Forge is for people who want to work towards something its optional and you will get rewarded with some amazing looking weapons as result.. not seeing the huge issue here.
unless Anet adds in extra skill pts everytime you level past 80 your talking 200 levels worth of skill points. You are right its a long term goal to work towards probably a good year for most people or maybe longer . Its not anything to compare to though for pvp its not a realistic goal to achieve in pvp. Yes it can be done through pvp entirely but a lot of us just want something to gain also in relation to world vs world. Like ive said in many threads i push for a realm point system all the time and trust me they have heard it so I do not see something wrong with others doing the same thing if in the end the goal is achieved and it makes the game a lot more fun to most others. The mystic forge is just not a realistic idea for pvpers who want to pvp and earn other forms of rewards. Heck if you want to get techincal with the current payout being dominate servers win more exp, karma, and money. It would be much faster just to grind that out in pve instead. Like I said I just want to see world vs world abilities that effect keep battles and siege . Add in the old stuff like wall scalling abilites similiar to rogue subclasses in DAOC . Add in a determination ability like classes had in DAOC . Heck give me a thorn weed field again and an unquinchable thirst for souls! ya i was a reaver hate me!
it's been a LONG time since I played DAOC but honestly don't remember many incentives for RVR at launch I remember bunch getting added after the game was out for little bit though.. Anet has done well with GW1 and think they will do well with GW2 and would not be surprised to see some sort of server point system coming soon or other incentives for WvWvW.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Ex-daocers do you think this will actually be fun? Would you like RvR if it was only about taking keeps/relics?
Nope. DAoC was about realm vs realm vs realm and what that meant was leaders, heroes, villains and rivals were being created with the rank and rp feature. Just throwing everyone together and offering a bone to fight over is a insult to what DAoC's RvR stood for. How can you even attempt to motivate players to form alliances, guilds or strategies when everyone has the same rank? Pick someone to follow? Dunno there was someting about checking the boards in DAoC to see who was top dog that week.
No, GW2's version of RvR leaves a lot to be desired and doesn't hold a candle to DAoC right now...but it's a start.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Like the OP, I sort of cringe when people compare GW2's WvWvW to DAOC's RvR. It's not, for several key reasons.
1) There are no realm ranks/abilities which you gain from your PVP activties. Chosing which specific abilities to spend you points was practically a game within itself, especially when defining your role in combat.
2) No Darkness Falls. One of the biggest reasons for me to go RVR to take the keeps was because I wanted to get into Darkness falls which at first offered decent gear, (got my first glowy sword there) but later offered drops (marks?) which could be crafted into significant income. Also, I thought DF was just plain great fun. I'd log off in there with my stealther, let the other side take it, then go out into the lower levels of the dungeon and gank the snot of people who were at a disadvantage. Also was great fun clearing out the other side.
3) Eventually I grew tired of DAOC's RVR servers, because they became pointless excercises in taking and retaking keeps which no one really cared about. In the FFA server Mordred, guilds actually claimed specific keeps as their own and did their best to defend and retain them as such. This could happen in GW2, but I'm guessing probably not, especially with the server switching every two weeks. Also the FFA servers were less "zergy" and a well put together 8 man could really use their skill to devestate others.
See, in the end, I don't PVP for fun, but only for profit, territory/resource control and denial of the same to others. I'm just not seeing GW2 being that sort of PVP end game so likely my tenure there will be for a few months while I enjoy the other aspects of the title.
1. They will add something, but, you basically had to put points into certain things or you re gimp. That and hardcore people destroyed more casuals because of the level disparity.
2. DF type dungeom will be more then likely be added.
3. 8 mans and they re anti realm, more, me me me attitude is what made people not care about taking keeps/relics for their realm. Back in the early days, 8 mans we re there to pick off reinforcements, take lower keeps, etc, not to bitch you out for taking their kill. RvR servers were better before they added to many RR, thus rps aren t necessarily the way to go. If they add something similar, I hope it s less OP, and more for something to strive for, with minimal advantage.
It reminds me of DAoC at release when RR ment Shiat because there were no Realm Abilities and I had a friggin blast then, like I did during the BWE with GW2.
Here's where the FPS comparisons end... GW2 isn't an FPS. It's an MMO with a persistant character and world. When you have these things, you want them to grow over time.
You spend time getting gear and earning skills and building up your character. You work to better your server. You get attached to the world and your avatar.
You have more invested in this character than a general FPS. Even FPS games now have a form of xp progression more often than not. Things like realm points and relics and special loot (from Darkness Falls) give people the extra push they need to get out there and do something. Even slight motivation is usually enough.
Some people that play the same FPS for 5 years is the type to do hardcore tournaments, they wouldn't be doing RvR in GW2.
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
the mystic forge is one seriously hardcore grind to anyone who seen it for the legendary weapons. Its 200 skill points per weapon and a very very large gold sink I was not at all impressed and think its WAY over the top for being a anti grind game.
so people complain there's nothing to look forward to or work towards in WvWvW although there is but its now worthless because it's too much of a time sink? Forge is for people who want to work towards something its optional and you will get rewarded with some amazing looking weapons as result.. not seeing the huge issue here.
unless Anet adds in extra skill pts everytime you level past 80 your talking 200 levels worth of skill points. You are right its a long term goal to work towards probably a good year for most people or maybe longer . Its not anything to compare to though for pvp its not a realistic goal to achieve in pvp. Yes it can be done through pvp entirely but a lot of us just want something to gain also in relation to world vs world. Like ive said in many threads i push for a realm point system all the time and trust me they have heard it so I do not see something wrong with others doing the same thing if in the end the goal is achieved and it makes the game a lot more fun to most others. The mystic forge is just not a realistic idea for pvpers who want to pvp and earn other forms of rewards. Heck if you want to get techincal with the current payout being dominate servers win more exp, karma, and money. It would be much faster just to grind that out in pve instead. Like I said I just want to see world vs world abilities that effect keep battles and siege . Add in the old stuff like wall scalling abilites similiar to rogue subclasses in DAOC . Add in a determination ability like classes had in DAOC . Heck give me a thorn weed field again and an unquinchable thirst for souls! ya i was a reaver hate me!
it's been a LONG time since I played DAOC but honestly don't remember many incentives for RVR at launch I remember bunch getting added after the game was out for little bit though.. Anet has done well with GW1 and think they will do well with GW2 and would not be surprised to see some sort of server point system coming soon or other incentives for WvWvW.
There weren't. And RvR was pointless until RRs were put in. Just like in WoW where PvP was pointless until Honor was implemented. Just as many other games have learned that on release you need to have some type of progression incentive system in place, otherwise (in most cases) your PvP will see an apathetic reception.
That being said, I honestly don't think Anet will ever add progression to WvWvW. I'd wager they'll be more focused on the eSport portion of their PvP systems. Balancing for the eSport will trump offering a progression system in WvWvW.
There weren't. And RvR was pointless until RRs were put in. Just like in WoW where PvP was pointless until Honor was implemented. Just as many other games have learned that on release you need to have some type of progression incentive system in place, otherwise (in most cases) your PvP will see an apathetic reception.
That being said, I honestly don't think Anet will ever add progression to WvWvW. I'd wager they'll be more focused on the eSport portion of their PvP systems. Balancing for the eSport will trump offering a progression system in WvWvW.
I remember enjoying it just fine without the progression. But everyone is differn't in this respect. Think at launch many are just going to enjoy the experience of it all. In the end it's going to be Anet's direction with the game as to whether people still around for long time though.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
People aren't talking about supply here. This means you have no idea how to actually compare the two games. You are like the blind men trying to figure out what an elephant is.
Also you have to keep in mind. You will have to perpetually regain your servers bonuses. And your guild's keep.
You constantly have to progress every 2 weeks. But you aren't progressing your character. You are progressing your server.
People aren't talking about supply here. This means you have no idea how to actually compare the two games. You are like the blind men trying to figure out what an elephant is.
Also you have to keep in mind. You will have to perpetually regain your servers bonuses. And your guild's keep.
You constantly have to progress every 2 weeks. But you aren't progressing your character. You are progressing your server.
To be fair, progressing and resetting progress aren't exactly the same thing. To me, gaining new progress is always more fun than regaining something I already had but was taken away. WvW is fun, but I agree there should be some sort of personal progression added to extend the longevity. Even vanity rewards and ranks would be plenty.
People aren't talking about supply here. This means you have no idea how to actually compare the two games. You are like the blind men trying to figure out what an elephant is.
Also you have to keep in mind. You will have to perpetually regain your servers bonuses. And your guild's keep.
You constantly have to progress every 2 weeks. But you aren't progressing your character. You are progressing your server.
To be fair, progressing and resetting progress aren't exactly the same thing. To me, gaining new progress is always more fun than regaining something I already had but was taken away. WvW is fun, but I agree there should be some sort of personal progression added to extend the longevity. Even vanity rewards and ranks would be plenty.
Anyone who thinks perpetual progression of personal power helps longeivity of a PvP game is living in La La Land. If people want cosmetic stuff fine whatever.
Personally I fight to win not for a number, not for some overpowered ability, not for a fancy boot.
The bottom line is you always have an advantage to fight for. Just because its not permanent really doesn't mean crap. Making it permanent is actually more boring, even if at first it appears more satisfying its really not.
I enjoyed DAoC back when it was released for a bout a year after, but haven't played it since then.
I find GW2 takes all the things I liked about DAoC's RvR (3-realm conflict, large scale sieges, territory control, freeform siege engine construction and placement, realm wide benefits for victories) while trimming out all the things that made it shitty (mindless RP farming, loot and time spent more important than player skill, long travel times, lot of wasted time trying to find conflicts, enemy players trolling and shittalking).
I remember CC being a major issue in DAoC and ruining most battles, as well as buff bots being an automatic i win button. I've heard people complain about CC in GW2 but havent ever seen it be in issue in any of the beta events, maybe because im the only one that was smart enough to invest in stability or maybe because it is really mild compared to how bad it used to be back in the day. Its like CC lite now, but we live in the age of entitlement now so I'll have to accept that.
Never gave two shits about seeing players names, or seeing some douche brag about his e-complishments. Unless it means something on a resume its worthless to me. Fun is far more important than giving some tool the ability to stroke his epeen. So I'm pretty happy with how GW2 set it up.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
I fight in PvP because it's fun. I don't care about any rewards whatsoever. If it's not fun as a process, no amount of reward will mean anything to me.
some peoples fun is different from other peoples fun so im still not sure why all the hating on introducing a realm point system
Also DAOC progression was two folds just like warhammer online if you ever played that .You had levels you can earn through pve and pvp like GW2 has but you also in pvp had realm points that everytime you killed a player or took a keep etc you earned realm points. The stronger the player you killed by their realm rank the more points you earned into the 1000s. The higher the player killing a lower player the less you earned making progression more difficult the higher up the chain you got compared to other players. Each realm rank was broken down into ranks starting from 1L12- now 12L12 each time you realm dings just like levels you got 1 more pt to spend in realm abilites that you could buy only available through pvp. Best I can explain it havent played it since 2009. (for the poster above me, Im sure others can remember it much better)
Comments
there's plently to strive for in WvWvW aside from just the fun of it.. you get XP(even past level 80) you get to unlock new skills to further enhance your character.. not to mention you got the mystic forge which I think many people have no clue about yet.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
i think a lot of us would just be happy with a simple title progression system or some sort of goal to work towards longterm other then that stupid year long goals they just added on the fly last beta event. Fun is very very subjective , you might just like taking keeps in a giant zerge and another guy might like ganking stragglers. Myself I like to feel a little progression in character development when I pvp, though I hate gear grinds like other games. Point is its not going to hurt them to add in some sort of progression in world vs world and they know that. The main thing is just keeping it in balance so it doesnt make toons who do it way more then others very powerful. Remember in DAOC when TOA released and the elite power gamer guilds finished their ML first and RvR was a complete nightmare? TOA killed DAOC for a lot of people by adding in really powerful artifacts and MLs. ANet doesnt want to make that same mistake but I am sure they have something in the works after release to expand it.
the mystic forge is one seriously hardcore grind to anyone who seen it for the legendary weapons. Its 200 skill points per weapon and a very very large gold sink I was not at all impressed and think its WAY over the top for being a anti grind game.
But those aren't exactly purely PvP rewards. You need PvP incentives.
so people complain there's nothing to look forward to or work towards in WvWvW although there is but its now worthless because it's too much of a time sink? Forge is for people who want to work towards something its optional and you will get rewarded with some amazing looking weapons as result.. not seeing the huge issue here.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
lugging around a legendary weapon in WvWvW is incentive enough for me.. your mileage may vary. Also structured PVP has plenty of incentives if you want only PVP incentives
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
You can get points for the Forge outside of PvP, no? If so, then it's not really a PvP incentive.
again its all perspective for me to been seen on the battlefield with a legendary weapon is a pvp incentive just because i can get the item through PVE as well to me doesn't make it any less an incentive to want to get one.. if you only PVP then it's something you can strive for by only doing PVP.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Like the OP, I sort of cringe when people compare GW2's WvWvW to DAOC's RvR. It's not, for several key reasons.
1) There are no realm ranks/abilities which you gain from your PVP activties. Chosing which specific abilities to spend you points was practically a game within itself, especially when defining your role in combat.
2) No Darkness Falls. One of the biggest reasons for me to go RVR to take the keeps was because I wanted to get into Darkness falls which at first offered decent gear, (got my first glowy sword there) but later offered drops (marks?) which could be crafted into significant income. Also, I thought DF was just plain great fun. I'd log off in there with my stealther, let the other side take it, then go out into the lower levels of the dungeon and gank the snot of people who were at a disadvantage. Also was great fun clearing out the other side.
3) Eventually I grew tired of DAOC's RVR servers, because they became pointless excercises in taking and retaking keeps which no one really cared about. In the FFA server Mordred, guilds actually claimed specific keeps as their own and did their best to defend and retain them as such. This could happen in GW2, but I'm guessing probably not, especially with the server switching every two weeks. Also the FFA servers were less "zergy" and a well put together 8 man could really use their skill to devestate others.
See, in the end, I don't PVP for fun, but only for profit, territory/resource control and denial of the same to others. I'm just not seeing GW2 being that sort of PVP end game so likely my tenure there will be for a few months while I enjoy the other aspects of the title.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The most fun and immersive form of character PVP progression (and indeed, incentive) is good fights, beating people in PVP, teabagging their corpse(s), taking their stuff (if it's a real full-loot game) and reading the QQ about how overpowered whatever-they-got-killed-by is.
unless Anet adds in extra skill pts everytime you level past 80 your talking 200 levels worth of skill points. You are right its a long term goal to work towards probably a good year for most people or maybe longer . Its not anything to compare to though for pvp its not a realistic goal to achieve in pvp. Yes it can be done through pvp entirely but a lot of us just want something to gain also in relation to world vs world. Like ive said in many threads i push for a realm point system all the time and trust me they have heard it so I do not see something wrong with others doing the same thing if in the end the goal is achieved and it makes the game a lot more fun to most others. The mystic forge is just not a realistic idea for pvpers who want to pvp and earn other forms of rewards. Heck if you want to get techincal with the current payout being dominate servers win more exp, karma, and money. It would be much faster just to grind that out in pve instead. Like I said I just want to see world vs world abilities that effect keep battles and siege . Add in the old stuff like wall scalling abilites similiar to rogue subclasses in DAOC . Add in a determination ability like classes had in DAOC . Heck give me a thorn weed field again and an unquinchable thirst for souls! ya i was a reaver hate me!
it's been a LONG time since I played DAOC but honestly don't remember many incentives for RVR at launch I remember bunch getting added after the game was out for little bit though.. Anet has done well with GW1 and think they will do well with GW2 and would not be surprised to see some sort of server point system coming soon or other incentives for WvWvW.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Nope. DAoC was about realm vs realm vs realm and what that meant was leaders, heroes, villains and rivals were being created with the rank and rp feature. Just throwing everyone together and offering a bone to fight over is a insult to what DAoC's RvR stood for. How can you even attempt to motivate players to form alliances, guilds or strategies when everyone has the same rank? Pick someone to follow? Dunno there was someting about checking the boards in DAoC to see who was top dog that week.
No, GW2's version of RvR leaves a lot to be desired and doesn't hold a candle to DAoC right now...but it's a start."Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
1. They will add something, but, you basically had to put points into certain things or you re gimp. That and hardcore people destroyed more casuals because of the level disparity.
2. DF type dungeom will be more then likely be added.
3. 8 mans and they re anti realm, more, me me me attitude is what made people not care about taking keeps/relics for their realm. Back in the early days, 8 mans we re there to pick off reinforcements, take lower keeps, etc, not to bitch you out for taking their kill. RvR servers were better before they added to many RR, thus rps aren t necessarily the way to go. If they add something similar, I hope it s less OP, and more for something to strive for, with minimal advantage.
In short OP, Yes.
It reminds me of DAoC at release when RR ment Shiat because there were no Realm Abilities and I had a friggin blast then, like I did during the BWE with GW2.
There weren't. And RvR was pointless until RRs were put in. Just like in WoW where PvP was pointless until Honor was implemented. Just as many other games have learned that on release you need to have some type of progression incentive system in place, otherwise (in most cases) your PvP will see an apathetic reception.
That being said, I honestly don't think Anet will ever add progression to WvWvW. I'd wager they'll be more focused on the eSport portion of their PvP systems. Balancing for the eSport will trump offering a progression system in WvWvW.
I remember enjoying it just fine without the progression. But everyone is differn't in this respect. Think at launch many are just going to enjoy the experience of it all. In the end it's going to be Anet's direction with the game as to whether people still around for long time though.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
People aren't talking about supply here. This means you have no idea how to actually compare the two games. You are like the blind men trying to figure out what an elephant is.
Also you have to keep in mind. You will have to perpetually regain your servers bonuses. And your guild's keep.
You constantly have to progress every 2 weeks. But you aren't progressing your character. You are progressing your server.
To be fair, progressing and resetting progress aren't exactly the same thing. To me, gaining new progress is always more fun than regaining something I already had but was taken away. WvW is fun, but I agree there should be some sort of personal progression added to extend the longevity. Even vanity rewards and ranks would be plenty.
Isn't there an option to turn names and guilds names on in the options section?
Anyone who thinks perpetual progression of personal power helps longeivity of a PvP game is living in La La Land. If people want cosmetic stuff fine whatever.
Personally I fight to win not for a number, not for some overpowered ability, not for a fancy boot.
The bottom line is you always have an advantage to fight for. Just because its not permanent really doesn't mean crap. Making it permanent is actually more boring, even if at first it appears more satisfying its really not.
I enjoyed DAoC back when it was released for a bout a year after, but haven't played it since then.
I find GW2 takes all the things I liked about DAoC's RvR (3-realm conflict, large scale sieges, territory control, freeform siege engine construction and placement, realm wide benefits for victories) while trimming out all the things that made it shitty (mindless RP farming, loot and time spent more important than player skill, long travel times, lot of wasted time trying to find conflicts, enemy players trolling and shittalking).
I remember CC being a major issue in DAoC and ruining most battles, as well as buff bots being an automatic i win button. I've heard people complain about CC in GW2 but havent ever seen it be in issue in any of the beta events, maybe because im the only one that was smart enough to invest in stability or maybe because it is really mild compared to how bad it used to be back in the day. Its like CC lite now, but we live in the age of entitlement now so I'll have to accept that.
Never gave two shits about seeing players names, or seeing some douche brag about his e-complishments. Unless it means something on a resume its worthless to me. Fun is far more important than giving some tool the ability to stroke his epeen. So I'm pretty happy with how GW2 set it up.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
I fight in PvP because it's fun. I don't care about any rewards whatsoever. If it's not fun as a process, no amount of reward will mean anything to me.
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some peoples fun is different from other peoples fun so im still not sure why all the hating on introducing a realm point system
Also DAOC progression was two folds just like warhammer online if you ever played that .You had levels you can earn through pve and pvp like GW2 has but you also in pvp had realm points that everytime you killed a player or took a keep etc you earned realm points. The stronger the player you killed by their realm rank the more points you earned into the 1000s. The higher the player killing a lower player the less you earned making progression more difficult the higher up the chain you got compared to other players. Each realm rank was broken down into ranks starting from 1L12- now 12L12 each time you realm dings just like levels you got 1 more pt to spend in realm abilites that you could buy only available through pvp. Best I can explain it havent played it since 2009. (for the poster above me, Im sure others can remember it much better)