I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone. That's probably the biggest reason.
And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you.
GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?
As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.
TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.
Agreed. If ESO is a clone of something it is more a DaoC clone than a Wow clone, but the problem is really that they take a game serie with millions of fans and make the MMO for a totally different playerbase. That might be unwise but we will just have to wait and see.
But ESO have most of it´s features from DaoC and since DaoC is several years older than Wow calling ESO Wow clone is just silly.
I kind of suspect more than a few people here to be bots that just spawn Wow clones whenever someone makes a thread about a new game (even if some game designers indeed have pasted and copied a lot from Wow).
You know what game have public quest? warhammer online.
This said, anyone who has played both games knows that comparing the public quests of warhammer with the dynamic events of GW2 is like comparing a rusted Traban with a brand new Ferrari Enzo.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
GW2 in 2012 is doing what WoW did in 2004, i.e. taking many good features from other games and combining them into ONE GAME. All the features on your list have been done before, but never in one polished and easily accessible package.
That is not 100% true. Some features like B2P were pioneered by ANET themselves and GW2 is really the first full AAA MMO with it. Other features have been used before but not the same way, like DEs. DEs have existed before but not instead of questing.
Most of the features are indeed from others but have been polished up to fit the game. Some like exploration were common in older MMOs but have been gone for many years.
Don't care who/what gets called a WoW Clone or not.
Since just seeing the term being seriously used by any author results in an instant mental discount of estimated I.Q., go nuts and join the "I just post handy sound byte memes" crew.
Oh wow!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone. That's probably the biggest reason.
And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you.
GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?
As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.
TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.
It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone.
I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game.
Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.
Warcraft was a RTS/RPG which was turned into an MMO. The community was much less reluctant to accept the change of game mechanisms. In fact, it was seen as a move forward which I also support.
In case of TESO, they are trying to transform an existing RPG into an MMO. I consider that much harder than turning RTS into MMO in terms of pleasing the community. Especially if you consider that ES is one of the most successful RPG series ever made. Furthermore, the game always top graphics and is known for its game mechanisms which do not change from one ES part to next one (or at least not much). Now they are trying to bring this amazing RPG series into a pretty traditional themeparky world which the community apparently does not appreciate.
In regards to the original question, some people claim that none of these is a WoW clone. I do not like the term "WoW clone" since it implies that the game is practically a copy paste of WoW which obviously it is not.
You asked why is TESO considered a WoW clone and not GW 2. My opinion is, that they are both very close to WoW. As I mentioned above, I would not go as far as saying they are clones since there is an attempt to distinguish themselves from WoW. However, I have not seen anything new so far in these games.
GW fans like to say how many "innovations" there are. There are truly none. The game is different from WoW in several areas. However, in these areas, GW simply uses mechanisms of other games.
E.g.
Dynamic events
3 Factions
WvWvW
No holy trinity
Easily attainable gear cap
B2P model
Dodge button
Tell me which of these is a new element in MMO gaming. The game itself does not bring anything that would be completely new, in my opinion. Year 2012 will not become a milestone in MMO gaming like 2004.
And I am saying this as a person that actually bought GW, so this is not a hater opinion. I am just a person that is neither a fan nor a hater. Trying to stay unbiased, but no matter how much you try to be objective, you always look at the world through your own eyes, so feel free to disagree
Being innovative this days doesn't require you to re-invent the wheel or penicilin... What it takes is to man up enough to combine all those features together even tho there wasn't any huge succes (aka. WoW formula) with it before, combine it so it works well with other things in games, make the best of it and hope for success
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
GW2 in 2012 is doing what WoW did in 2004, i.e. taking many good features from other games and combining them into ONE GAME. All the features on your list have been done before, but never in one polished and easily accessible package.
I sure would like to hear which game has used dynamic event -like feature in a chain or web-like manner with multiple end-states to completely replace questing.
This is, in effect, questing 2.0.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by MMOExposed Well looking over this forum's activity, it seem like the community here views TESO as a WoW clone. This come sup in just about every thread.
But what I want to know is how/why is TESO being considered a WoW clone?
How is TESO considered a WoW clone but GW2 isn't?
TESO seems to share many features with GW2, except it has three faction PvP in the world shared by PvE. You still have active dodge and block mechanics like GW2, and you have class system like GW2, and I heard it has events, but not sure to what extent. Also TESO is being backed by some DAoC developers for PvP.
Sounds closest to GW2 than WoW. So how is it a WoW clone but not GW2?
Honesty, where does the WoW come into this at all?
It is the go to response, kind of like Obama blaming Bush. Seems it is so ingrained into peoples psyche that it is the first thing to come out of their fingertips...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
GW2 in 2012 is doing what WoW did in 2004, i.e. taking many good features from other games and combining them into ONE GAME. All the features on your list have been done before, but never in one polished and easily accessible package.
I sure would like to hear which game has used dynamic event -like feature in a chain or web-like manner with multiple end-states to completely replace questing.
This is, in effect, questing 2.0.
I agree with you Quirhid, I'd like to hear that as well...
But, I do agree with Spotty as well, gw2 is just trying to kick out the "usual" concept of mmorpgs using some other games as an inspiration (and there's nothing wrong with that if the game does the job good and improves everything we've seen so far).
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
Being innovative this days doesn't require you to re-invent the wheel or penicilin... What it takes is to man up enough to combine all those features together even tho there wasn't any huge succes (aka. WoW formula) with it before, combine it so it works well with other things in games, make the best of it and hope for success
Not even that, it just needs to feel like a different game to play.
Rift kinda failed with that, anyone playing Wow, EQ 2 or LOTRO will feel right home in it and recognize almost everything.
TOR did succeed that way but the problem with it is that most of the content is singleplayer focused so most MMO players tired after a month or 2 (which indeed is as long as I play almost all singleplayer games) so it became very popular a short time only.
You can say a whole lot about GW2 but playing it feels rather different from anything I ever played and I played a lot.
Being innovative this days doesn't require you to re-invent the wheel or penicilin... What it takes is to man up enough to combine all those features together even tho there wasn't any huge succes (aka. WoW formula) with it before, combine it so it works well with other things in games, make the best of it and hope for success
Not even that, it just needs to feel like a different game to play.
Rift kinda failed with that, anyone playing Wow, EQ 2 or LOTRO will feel right home in it and recognize almost everything.
TOR did succeed that way but the problem with it is that most of the content is singleplayer focused so most MMO players tired after a month or 2 (which indeed is as long as I play almost all singleplayer games) so it became very popular a short time only.
You can say a whole lot about GW2 but playing it feels rather different from anything I ever played and I played a lot.
I agree with you... I also loved my first month and felt immersed into the game, I was sucked right into it... But then as my 2nd month was slipping away I was feeling like I'm alone in this world xD Only place where I was running into more than 3 people was the fleet.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
Who is actually developing this MMO? I hope it's not Bethesda as they should be working on the new TES game and their other franchises. I can't wait for Dishonoured to come out. That game looks badass.
The parent company of Bethesda, ZeniMax, is making the mmo.
Have these guys developed a MMO before? Or any game for that matter? Am I the only one that is concerned by this?
Zenimax is headed by Matt Firor, one of the founders of Mythic Entertainment ie Dark Age of Camelot
Earlier this month, Mythic co-founder Matt Firor was named as the new leader of ZeniMax Online Studios. ZeniMax--the parent company of Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 developer Bethesda--is charging Firor with putting together a team that can compete in the MMO market.
Originally posted by MMOExposed Well looking over this forum's activity, it seem like the community here views TESO as a WoW clone. This come sup in just about every thread.
But what I want to know is how/why is TESO being considered a WoW clone?
How is TESO considered a WoW clone but GW2 isn't?
TESO seems to share many features with GW2, except it has three faction PvP in the world shared by PvE. You still have active dodge and block mechanics like GW2, and you have class system like GW2, and I heard it has events, but not sure to what extent. Also TESO is being backed by some DAoC developers for PvP.
Sounds closest to GW2 than WoW. So how is it a WoW clone but not GW2?
Honesty, where does the WoW come into this at all?
I could be wrong on this, but I believe it's related to TESO going to an archaic trinity system instead of a "no set roles" system like GW2. I think that's the main reason "WoW clone" was mentioned, justifiably or not.
GW2 in 2012 is doing what WoW did in 2004, i.e. taking many good features from other games and combining them into ONE GAME. All the features on your list have been done before, but never in one polished and easily accessible package.
I sure would like to hear which game has used dynamic event -like feature in a chain or web-like manner with multiple end-states to completely replace questing.
This is, in effect, questing 2.0.
I agree with you Quirhid, I'd like to hear that as well...
But, I do agree with Spotty as well, gw2 is just trying to kick out the "usual" concept of mmorpgs using some other games as an inspiration (and there's nothing wrong with that if the game does the job good and improves everything we've seen so far).
I did not say that GW2 and WoW only used exact copies of features from other games. Both took many core features that existed in other games and adapted them in innovative ways. The resulting implementation was still recognizable, but it was not the same.
DE's existed before GW2, but the way the concept is used in GW2 is innovative, because it has not been used that way before. If you take something and improve it, that's good. If you simply copy something, that's bad.
Back on topic:
I've not seen anything in TESO that looks like an improvement on other MMO's. It looks like it will be a "generic MMO" set in the TES universe. So gameplay will not be the same as I'm used to in TES games. You cannot take a single-player game and simply make it an MMO, it will not play the same way.
TESO gameplay will be nothing like a TES single-player game. The experience will be totally different. So calling it TES Online is a joke. It will be a medieval fantasy MMO using races and place names from the TES universe. Even the world maps will be different.
As for the topic, it certainly isn't a wow clone. Despite what others in this thread are telling you.
It's like saying a Honda Civic is a Corvette clone because they are both cars.
That doesn't stop silly people from posting theyre clones just because they don't like 'em. Its just venting. You just have to wish they'd punch a wall instead.
Oooh, a fun analogy to play with.
Think of it this way.
I have a Honda Civic. Nice car, decent features, gets me from point A to point B in the same amount of time as most any other car out there. (assuuming I follow the rules)
I ask you to build me a flying car. Yep, I want it to take me from A to B in the air and at about 250 mph. Also it needs to hover, include onboard radio communication to air traffic control and look good at the same time. (should come with 50 caliber machine guns so I can PVP with anyone who pisses me off too)
And you give me a Corvette.
Now while it is true, the Corvette is a pretty sweet ride, and certainly goes much faster than my Civic, doesn't change the fact that you failed to deliver me a flying car, and in fact gave me "a clone" of my Civic.
Now, of course there never has been a flying car, but in MMORPG space there are alternative game features that older games had (and were quite fun, you know, like housing, or no levels, or classes and the like) but for some reason MMORPG developers no longer provide them, they give us a remake of WOW (or standard theme park model if you like)
Now actually I don't know enough about TESO to call it a clone, but I see where the people who do so are coming from. They had a chance to at least retain things from the single player game, like no classes and chose to instead follow the traditional model.
Do that too often and you will end up with a clone.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I did not say that GW2 and WoW only used exact copies of features from other games. Both took many core features that existed in other games and adapted them in innovative ways.
Well, they did make solid choices on some EQ-era design to discard. I guess that counts as innovation, indirectly; at least they looked at the same problems and (sometimes) arrived at different answers.
Other companies could do the same--they just need to be willing to evaluate [what exists] for [what we could do better] instead of [copy the best seller, easy].
Then, of course, another company actually has to succeed in doing it better. That's that scary rock in the road that everyone keeps tripping on.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Do you guys think that it is possible in a longterm to keep using mechanisms that we have already seen and put them in such order that the game feels different? Or do you think that at some point, the developers will need to actually come up with new mechanisms, new elements in mmo gaming.
my opinon, draws upon the D&D publishing market from 1974 through 2012
it may be related to mmos, it may not -- I think they share parallels tho
in the 80's, the most common game systems on the market were those that used Levels and Classes
there were many other RPGs that used other styles -- no levels, no classes, use points instead of diceroll for characters
but overall, the level and class system was the most common system being published by various independents
(and still remains that way, almost 40 years later)
i think mmo gaming will see new changes but at its heart: themeparks, classes, factions are here to stay
Well, they did make solid choices on some EQ-era design to discard. I guess that counts as innovation, indirectly; at least they looked at the same problems and (sometimes) arrived at different answers.
You honestly expected anything diff in todays generation of mmorpg's? This is about all thats being made anymore are crappy wow-clones/themeparks. Only mmo I have seen with some actual uniqueness in the last 6 years has been gw2. Till these pointless themepark mmo's stop selling and getting so many subs thats all devs are going to puke out. Its just business, they go where the easy money is.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
So basically gw2 have a dump down UI and amount of skill and it suddenly become inovation and different? so in gw2 you don't have to worry about threat and mob simply attack the closest target it become special?
You know what game have public quest? warhammer online. And people call it wow clone. My game experience is completely different when I play warhammer. I can level purely from scenario and rvr, which is all I do, which is nothing like wow and people call it a wow clone.
EQ have open world raids and people say wow clone eq. Wow actually had open world raids, just people don't take it seriously because open world raids can range from 10-100 people which make it bad for balancing the game. I dont' know if Wow have open world raid now because I havn't play after the first expension.
The buttom line is if the game is not sandbox we call it a wow clone on this site. But GW2 are taking it easy because of all the B2P fans/defenders.
Have you ever seen what the GW1 AI could do?
They would ignore the warrior in the front and run straight to the dudes healing. Unless of course someone else had a stack of death penalty, meaning the mobs would spike them instead.
Look at people complaining about mobs dodging, mobs running out of AoE in the GW2 forums.
A dumb down UI and skills?
Really?
And CS is the same as Doom. So does EQ and WoW also have open world raids that scale to the number of people while having public quests?
Public quests by the way that chain, have different objectives and faillure states. Public quests that take in account the number of farmers that were kidnapped in the previous event at ask you to rescue that precise number of farmers.
So you needed 3 games.
Now I'll bring back WvW.
Bam, DAoC. 4 games.
Open world dungeons? Something else.
Open world war against mobs for control points in Orr at level? I'm sure something else.
Crafting that produces BiS weapons and armor?
No mob tagging, instanced resource nodes?
Open world underwater dungeons?
How many games will you need?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
there were many other RPGs that used other styles -- no levels, no classes, use points instead of diceroll for characters
Well, "many" is a bit of an overstatement maybe; there was GURPS..and..uh..Palladium I think? Oh, yah, Hero games systems, weren't very successful for fantasy.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
MMO's are considered clones of eachother because there is an insanely large number of over sensitive MMO developers who lack imagination or forward thinking of any kind.
Fixed that for yah
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
Comments
Agreed. If ESO is a clone of something it is more a DaoC clone than a Wow clone, but the problem is really that they take a game serie with millions of fans and make the MMO for a totally different playerbase. That might be unwise but we will just have to wait and see.
But ESO have most of it´s features from DaoC and since DaoC is several years older than Wow calling ESO Wow clone is just silly.
I kind of suspect more than a few people here to be bots that just spawn Wow clones whenever someone makes a thread about a new game (even if some game designers indeed have pasted and copied a lot from Wow).
This said, anyone who has played both games knows that comparing the public quests of warhammer with the dynamic events of GW2 is like comparing a rusted Traban with a brand new Ferrari Enzo.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
agree - if i was to call TESO anything, it would be the spiritual successor to DAOC
EQ2 fan sites
what has this topic got to do with gw2?
That is not 100% true. Some features like B2P were pioneered by ANET themselves and GW2 is really the first full AAA MMO with it. Other features have been used before but not the same way, like DEs. DEs have existed before but not instead of questing.
Most of the features are indeed from others but have been polished up to fit the game. Some like exploration were common in older MMOs but have been gone for many years.
Oh wow!
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Being innovative this days doesn't require you to re-invent the wheel or penicilin... What it takes is to man up enough to combine all those features together even tho there wasn't any huge succes (aka. WoW formula) with it before, combine it so it works well with other things in games, make the best of it and hope for success
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
I sure would like to hear which game has used dynamic event -like feature in a chain or web-like manner with multiple end-states to completely replace questing.
This is, in effect, questing 2.0.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
It is the go to response, kind of like Obama blaming Bush. Seems it is so ingrained into peoples psyche that it is the first thing to come out of their fingertips...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
The thread topic has NOTHING to do with GW2.
However, that doesn't stop it from being totally derailed into a GW2 discussion
It's a common problem on these forums lately...
I agree with you Quirhid, I'd like to hear that as well...
But, I do agree with Spotty as well, gw2 is just trying to kick out the "usual" concept of mmorpgs using some other games as an inspiration (and there's nothing wrong with that if the game does the job good and improves everything we've seen so far).
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Not even that, it just needs to feel like a different game to play.
Rift kinda failed with that, anyone playing Wow, EQ 2 or LOTRO will feel right home in it and recognize almost everything.
TOR did succeed that way but the problem with it is that most of the content is singleplayer focused so most MMO players tired after a month or 2 (which indeed is as long as I play almost all singleplayer games) so it became very popular a short time only.
You can say a whole lot about GW2 but playing it feels rather different from anything I ever played and I played a lot.
I agree with you... I also loved my first month and felt immersed into the game, I was sucked right into it... But then as my 2nd month was slipping away I was feeling like I'm alone in this world xD Only place where I was running into more than 3 people was the fleet.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
Zenimax is headed by Matt Firor, one of the founders of Mythic Entertainment ie Dark Age of Camelot
2007 interview
http://www.shacknews.com/article/48493/interview-zenimax-onlines-matt-firor
Earlier this month, Mythic co-founder Matt Firor was named as the new leader of ZeniMax Online Studios. ZeniMax--the parent company of Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 developer Bethesda--is charging Firor with putting together a team that can compete in the MMO market.
EQ2 fan sites
I could be wrong on this, but I believe it's related to TESO going to an archaic trinity system instead of a "no set roles" system like GW2. I think that's the main reason "WoW clone" was mentioned, justifiably or not.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I did not say that GW2 and WoW only used exact copies of features from other games. Both took many core features that existed in other games and adapted them in innovative ways. The resulting implementation was still recognizable, but it was not the same.
DE's existed before GW2, but the way the concept is used in GW2 is innovative, because it has not been used that way before. If you take something and improve it, that's good. If you simply copy something, that's bad.
Back on topic:
I've not seen anything in TESO that looks like an improvement on other MMO's. It looks like it will be a "generic MMO" set in the TES universe. So gameplay will not be the same as I'm used to in TES games. You cannot take a single-player game and simply make it an MMO, it will not play the same way.
TESO gameplay will be nothing like a TES single-player game. The experience will be totally different. So calling it TES Online is a joke. It will be a medieval fantasy MMO using races and place names from the TES universe. Even the world maps will be different.
Oooh, a fun analogy to play with.
Think of it this way.
I have a Honda Civic. Nice car, decent features, gets me from point A to point B in the same amount of time as most any other car out there. (assuuming I follow the rules)
I ask you to build me a flying car. Yep, I want it to take me from A to B in the air and at about 250 mph. Also it needs to hover, include onboard radio communication to air traffic control and look good at the same time. (should come with 50 caliber machine guns so I can PVP with anyone who pisses me off too)
And you give me a Corvette.
Now while it is true, the Corvette is a pretty sweet ride, and certainly goes much faster than my Civic, doesn't change the fact that you failed to deliver me a flying car, and in fact gave me "a clone" of my Civic.
Now, of course there never has been a flying car, but in MMORPG space there are alternative game features that older games had (and were quite fun, you know, like housing, or no levels, or classes and the like) but for some reason MMORPG developers no longer provide them, they give us a remake of WOW (or standard theme park model if you like)
Now actually I don't know enough about TESO to call it a clone, but I see where the people who do so are coming from. They had a chance to at least retain things from the single player game, like no classes and chose to instead follow the traditional model.
Do that too often and you will end up with a clone.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
what did WOW adapt in an innovative way?
EQ2 fan sites
Well, they did make solid choices on some EQ-era design to discard. I guess that counts as innovation, indirectly; at least they looked at the same problems and (sometimes) arrived at different answers.
Other companies could do the same--they just need to be willing to evaluate [what exists] for [what we could do better] instead of [copy the best seller, easy].
Then, of course, another company actually has to succeed in doing it better. That's that scary rock in the road that everyone keeps tripping on.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
my opinon, draws upon the D&D publishing market from 1974 through 2012
it may be related to mmos, it may not -- I think they share parallels tho
in the 80's, the most common game systems on the market were those that used Levels and Classes
there were many other RPGs that used other styles -- no levels, no classes, use points instead of diceroll for characters
but overall, the level and class system was the most common system being published by various independents
(and still remains that way, almost 40 years later)
i think mmo gaming will see new changes but at its heart: themeparks, classes, factions are here to stay
EQ2 fan sites
fair enough - i agree
EQ2 fan sites
You honestly expected anything diff in todays generation of mmorpg's? This is about all thats being made anymore are crappy wow-clones/themeparks. Only mmo I have seen with some actual uniqueness in the last 6 years has been gw2. Till these pointless themepark mmo's stop selling and getting so many subs thats all devs are going to puke out. Its just business, they go where the easy money is.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Have you ever seen what the GW1 AI could do?
They would ignore the warrior in the front and run straight to the dudes healing. Unless of course someone else had a stack of death penalty, meaning the mobs would spike them instead.
Look at people complaining about mobs dodging, mobs running out of AoE in the GW2 forums.
A dumb down UI and skills?
Really?
And CS is the same as Doom. So does EQ and WoW also have open world raids that scale to the number of people while having public quests?
Public quests by the way that chain, have different objectives and faillure states. Public quests that take in account the number of farmers that were kidnapped in the previous event at ask you to rescue that precise number of farmers.
So you needed 3 games.
Now I'll bring back WvW.
Bam, DAoC. 4 games.
Open world dungeons? Something else.
Open world war against mobs for control points in Orr at level? I'm sure something else.
Crafting that produces BiS weapons and armor?
No mob tagging, instanced resource nodes?
Open world underwater dungeons?
How many games will you need?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Well, "many" is a bit of an overstatement maybe; there was GURPS..and..uh..Palladium I think? Oh, yah, Hero games systems, weren't very successful for fantasy.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Fixed that for yah
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
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