the one thing that would deter me from WvW has nothing to do with getting pvp gear out of it.....its if there is no real map control. If I log into the game and see that all our efforts from the day before have been wiped out, and we are essentially playing musical chairs with the control points then it would all feel cheapened. It would feel like planetside Fun game, but ultimately meaningless. And putting in what I would consider to be a pvp gear grind would not help it, it would only detract and distract.
I could see the keeps and everything being reset once a week or something to that effect. Siege warfare has a lot of potential but most havent been able to pull it off. Darkfall came close.
Otacu, the problem is gw2 has heavy vertical progression until you hit 80 when all of a sudden that changes completely and you're left with horizontal progression. That radical shift in game goals will most likely not sit well with players. Ok if the whole game was horizontal progression, everyone started on level 80 for pve and wvw. But that wouldn't be very would it? No, because people like vertical progression.
Is it really about vertical or horizontal progression or more about what you get from progression. In WvW are you constantly paired with the same server or does it change periodically? If you rotate servers then I can see where it would be difficult to stay king of the mountain.
If they were to add such a system, it might be nice, but it would have to be completely different from what DAoC had. GW2 already has pleanty of gear progression in the game. It doesn't need a gear treadmill in WvW to boot.
The only thing that I could really think of that might be a nice system, is to have certain communication based tools based on rank. (or better yet, points that have to be spent) ie. Special waypoint notifications for WvW (on the mini-map), special chat channelsthat certain ranks can use, but everyone on the map can hear. Etc.
I'd choose 'No', to what I think the OP is actually asking for, though. And that would be a gear-treadmill in PvP. Such systems screw over PvP time and time again. I don't think WvW needs more imbalancing. It's fairly good as it is (once the population queues got fixed).
I'd rather them work on reducing lag in highly concentrated areas.
Originally posted by gravesworn Is it really about vertical or horizontal progression or more about what you get from progression. In WvW are you constantly paired with the same server or does it change periodically? If you rotate servers then I can see where it would be difficult to stay king of the mountain.
We didn't really see this during the beta weekends (for obvious reasons), but the server matchups change every 2 weeks.
WvW is a lot more like an ongoing game of risk than anything else, tbh. You're constantly having to check on territories, figure out what the enemy is trying to use against you, and what territories you may have won / lost since last time you checked.
It's much more like a completely different type of game, though on an individual (person -to- person) basis, there are some forms of verticle progression (lvls), and some forms of horizontal progression (skill points, honor).
Dont make this a Wow 2.0 carrot on a stick getting farmed by OP gear sets, we have 5000 mmo's like that.
Dont like GW2 gear stats ? go play some other mmo.
GW2 have a loyal fanbase who dont want OP gear, its kill that needs to decide the outcome, not gear.
Doesnt matter against wich server or wich oponent you fight, you should be on equal foot, not a disatvantage because you missed the latest carrot on stick gear grind.
if you want an mmo that makes you chase a carrot on a stick then 90% of mmo's use that model..you shouldn't have a problem finding one that suits your individualism.
I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
Don't play it then, simple solution.
He really dislike(seems to hate) GW 2 with a passion I think it's because of the fans though back when SWTOR around so, he's just taking his anger out on this.
I don't thinkg he has even played in which I expect either way he'll say he has and that is very boring game from start till end. Though I hope proves me wrong because then that'll be covered(no sarcasm at all btw).
Because we also must agree that for a fact 95%+ players are motivated by personal progression. Since we are all "Gods" we know this by now. "Dude it's common sense." and well I'd say "Dude I'm Santa Claus, MERRY CHRISTMAS!"
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
me what idont want is afker,if arenanet need to put a debuff on the afk player or quitter i am all for it!so lets say you gain normally 100 xp and 100 rep for your ranking if you get the afk debuf and or the quitter debuff then your point drop to 10 xp and 10 rep!this way it ensure stupid quitter and afker dont get rewarded !afk debuff applied after say 3 time ,since it is harder to prove!
I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
Don't play it then, simple solution.
The arrogance of the fanboys will kill gw2, ¨dont play then¨, have fun playing in an empty WvWvW zone after a week, even worse after the 1st month, And believe me if Anet dont change anything it will happen, any DAOC and WAR veteran can tell you that.
The DAoC realm abilities is a self explanatory example of why I don't want any of that stuff in GW2. The last thing the game needs is some mechanic that makes elder character more powerful than new characters or alts, when it has managed to avoid that until now.
+ 1 and as a long time DAoC playe I feel the same way you do. Another gear grind is the last thing I want to see
I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
Don't play it then, simple solution.
at this point I agree. seriously the progression system really doesnt work either, eventually you hit max and then what?
dont get me wrong I'd love something similar to a leaderboard system maybe with titles
maybe like
Sapper -most doors or walls destroyed
saboteaur - most siege engines destroyed
Highwayman - most caravans stopped
or hell since this is really co-op and guild based how about special titles and emblems for guilds taht hold or capture the most keeps? it can only be held by one guild at a time on each server or something like that.
that was we dont have to worry about power creep and you still have a reason to be awesome
I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
Don't play it then, simple solution.
The arrogance of the fanboys will kill gw2, ¨dont play then¨, have fun playing in an empty WvWvW zone after a week, even worse after the 1st month, And believe me if Anet dont change anything it will happen, any DAOC and WAR veteran can tell you that.
Ahh yea I bout got it right it was fans.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
Don't play it then, simple solution.
The arrogance of the fanboys will kill gw2, ¨dont play then¨, have fun playing in an empty WvWvW zone after a week, even worse after the 1st month, And believe me if Anet dont change anything it will happen, any DAOC and WAR veteran can tell you that.
How is that arrogance? you are on here saying you don't like it and we all have to read you bitching about a game you won't even play. Calling yourself a veteran of rvr is arrogance though. i have played war and the pvp ranks caused so much imbalance that it was impossible to kill the players who were ranked higher. It was all about gear and equipment and not about skill.
I realize this is a contentious topic and I'm agnostic to it, in general. I do happen to agree that having some other-than-cosmetic reason to continue to play WvW for a long time is likely beneficial.
That said, many didn't play DAoC but assume that RR/RAs were some very powerful, grindtastic result to RvR. The fact is that most RAs were useful but incremental increases in things and the amount of time (re: playing time) it took to increase them was VERY long.
I played on Merlin for about 18 months and my S&B Paladin at RR5 won battles ~30% of the time 1v1 in the Frontier vs our server's RR11 Shadowblade. The difference in aggregate playtime for us was significant and I'd guess well over a year. It was a VERY slow progression and wasn't like normal level progression. If you increase it by a 15-20x, you might be getting into the ballpark.
To sum up my position about RvR in DAoC: Accruing Realm Rank, and adding/increasing Realm Abilities, over time provided incremental but tangible benefits to characters over the very long life of them. These things neither made the player overpowered relative to their opponents nor broke combat. Most importantly, even the hardcore "achiever" types did not play RvR just because there was some counter there to increase - we all played because the game was fun and there was a sense of community and competition; accruing Realm Points was the result and not the motivation.
edit: Also, don't confuse what killed DAoC (Trials of Atlantis PVE gear-grinding) with RvR as they were very separate.
The internet is an amazing platform for some people to showcase their deficiencies as a person.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point RP farmers, grinders, and people who want to turn the game into WoW will get bored pretty fast.
Fixed your post, and I respond to this more syntactically correct version by saying 'and nothing of value will be lost'. This group of people is not more important than the rest of the playerbase. And it sure as hell isnt the majority. You will have to convince ANet that it is worth screwing over everyone else in the game because a subset of players wants to get power advantages over others by chasing a carrot for months.
BTW vet of DAoC and War here, never once participated in RvR to grind RP's. Wasn't fun. It turned what should have been a war atmosphere into a WoW endgame raid-like atmosphere where people only wanted to farm RPs and you got selected for groups based on how long you've been grinding. No thanks, GW2 is better than that pathetic shit.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Putting ranks and leader boards in cant hurt. If someone wants to play 15 hours a day then good for them. Give them rank of High Warlord or Grand Puma. If you arent giving them op gear i see no harm in it.
Originally posted by gravesworn Putting ranks and leader boards in cant hurt. If someone wants to play 15 hours a day then good for them. Give them rank of High Warlord or Grand Puma. If you arent giving them op gear i see no harm in it.
who says there aren't pvp titles, have you played the released version of the game?
Comments
Good Lord i even have to explain such a simple thing. Leaderboards, rare skins, guild pride to conquer castles, achivements, titles ecc.
I guess you better go back to a vertical progression mmorpg because it's obviously not the game for you.
Don't worry i will gladly take over your queue slot in WvWvW
the one thing that would deter me from WvW has nothing to do with getting pvp gear out of it.....its if there is no real map control. If I log into the game and see that all our efforts from the day before have been wiped out, and we are essentially playing musical chairs with the control points then it would all feel cheapened. It would feel like planetside
Fun game, but ultimately meaningless. And putting in what I would consider to be a pvp gear grind would not help it, it would only detract and distract.
If they were to add such a system, it might be nice, but it would have to be completely different from what DAoC had. GW2 already has pleanty of gear progression in the game. It doesn't need a gear treadmill in WvW to boot.
The only thing that I could really think of that might be a nice system, is to have certain communication based tools based on rank. (or better yet, points that have to be spent) ie. Special waypoint notifications for WvW (on the mini-map), special chat channelsthat certain ranks can use, but everyone on the map can hear. Etc.
I'd choose 'No', to what I think the OP is actually asking for, though. And that would be a gear-treadmill in PvP. Such systems screw over PvP time and time again. I don't think WvW needs more imbalancing. It's fairly good as it is (once the population queues got fixed).
I'd rather them work on reducing lag in highly concentrated areas.
We didn't really see this during the beta weekends (for obvious reasons), but the server matchups change every 2 weeks.
WvW is a lot more like an ongoing game of risk than anything else, tbh. You're constantly having to check on territories, figure out what the enemy is trying to use against you, and what territories you may have won / lost since last time you checked.
It's much more like a completely different type of game, though on an individual (person -to- person) basis, there are some forms of verticle progression (lvls), and some forms of horizontal progression (skill points, honor).
GW2 = GW2 = No gear advantage
Dont make this a Wow 2.0 carrot on a stick getting farmed by OP gear sets, we have 5000 mmo's like that.
Dont like GW2 gear stats ? go play some other mmo.
GW2 have a loyal fanbase who dont want OP gear, its kill that needs to decide the outcome, not gear.
Doesnt matter against wich server or wich oponent you fight, you should be on equal foot, not a disatvantage because you missed the latest carrot on stick gear grind.
if you want an mmo that makes you chase a carrot on a stick then 90% of mmo's use that model..you shouldn't have a problem finding one that suits your individualism.
This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.
Don't play it then, simple solution.
He really dislike(seems to hate) GW 2 with a passion I think it's because of the fans though back when SWTOR around so, he's just taking his anger out on this.
I don't thinkg he has even played in which I expect either way he'll say he has and that is very boring game from start till end. Though I hope proves me wrong because then that'll be covered(no sarcasm at all btw).
Because we also must agree that for a fact 95%+ players are motivated by personal progression. Since we are all "Gods" we know this by now. "Dude it's common sense." and well I'd say "Dude I'm Santa Claus, MERRY CHRISTMAS!"
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
me what idont want is afker,if arenanet need to put a debuff on the afk player or quitter i am all for it!so lets say you gain normally 100 xp and 100 rep for your ranking if you get the afk debuf and or the quitter debuff then your point drop to 10 xp and 10 rep!this way it ensure stupid quitter and afker dont get rewarded !afk debuff applied after say 3 time ,since it is harder to prove!
The arrogance of the fanboys will kill gw2, ¨dont play then¨, have fun playing in an empty WvWvW zone after a week, even worse after the 1st month, And believe me if Anet dont change anything it will happen, any DAOC and WAR veteran can tell you that.
+ 1 and as a long time DAoC playe I feel the same way you do. Another gear grind is the last thing I want to see
I miss DAoC
at this point I agree. seriously the progression system really doesnt work either, eventually you hit max and then what?
dont get me wrong I'd love something similar to a leaderboard system maybe with titles
maybe like
Sapper -most doors or walls destroyed
saboteaur - most siege engines destroyed
Highwayman - most caravans stopped
or hell since this is really co-op and guild based how about special titles and emblems for guilds taht hold or capture the most keeps? it can only be held by one guild at a time on each server or something like that.
that was we dont have to worry about power creep and you still have a reason to be awesome
Ahh yea I bout got it right it was fans.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
How is that arrogance? you are on here saying you don't like it and we all have to read you bitching about a game you won't even play. Calling yourself a veteran of rvr is arrogance though. i have played war and the pvp ranks caused so much imbalance that it was impossible to kill the players who were ranked higher. It was all about gear and equipment and not about skill.
I realize this is a contentious topic and I'm agnostic to it, in general. I do happen to agree that having some other-than-cosmetic reason to continue to play WvW for a long time is likely beneficial.
That said, many didn't play DAoC but assume that RR/RAs were some very powerful, grindtastic result to RvR. The fact is that most RAs were useful but incremental increases in things and the amount of time (re: playing time) it took to increase them was VERY long.
I played on Merlin for about 18 months and my S&B Paladin at RR5 won battles ~30% of the time 1v1 in the Frontier vs our server's RR11 Shadowblade. The difference in aggregate playtime for us was significant and I'd guess well over a year. It was a VERY slow progression and wasn't like normal level progression. If you increase it by a 15-20x, you might be getting into the ballpark.
To sum up my position about RvR in DAoC: Accruing Realm Rank, and adding/increasing Realm Abilities, over time provided incremental but tangible benefits to characters over the very long life of them. These things neither made the player overpowered relative to their opponents nor broke combat. Most importantly, even the hardcore "achiever" types did not play RvR just because there was some counter there to increase - we all played because the game was fun and there was a sense of community and competition; accruing Realm Points was the result and not the motivation.
edit: Also, don't confuse what killed DAoC (Trials of Atlantis PVE gear-grinding) with RvR as they were very separate.
The internet is an amazing platform for some people to showcase their deficiencies as a person.
Regards,
Sarethor
Fixed your post, and I respond to this more syntactically correct version by saying 'and nothing of value will be lost'. This group of people is not more important than the rest of the playerbase. And it sure as hell isnt the majority. You will have to convince ANet that it is worth screwing over everyone else in the game because a subset of players wants to get power advantages over others by chasing a carrot for months.
BTW vet of DAoC and War here, never once participated in RvR to grind RP's. Wasn't fun. It turned what should have been a war atmosphere into a WoW endgame raid-like atmosphere where people only wanted to farm RPs and you got selected for groups based on how long you've been grinding. No thanks, GW2 is better than that pathetic shit.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
who says there aren't pvp titles, have you played the released version of the game?
None of what you described is related to insta-leveling from 1-80. Not one single thing, so maybe you should rethink your argument and get back to me.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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