"Attack on Steam?" There was no attack on Steam. Anet disagrees with whatever terms that Valve placed on them, and so will many other MMO developers. I don't know what they are, but the point is, it's probably not going to be on there.
So you speak for 'other MMO developers'?
Like I said, disagreeing and deciding to not do XYZ together with someone is fine.
Disagreeing and then saying 'We didn't do XYZ together and so will other companies' is another issue.
Speaking for 'other' parties is unprofessional and makes you look petty.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I noticed all the other Guild Wars are on steam, anyone know if GW2 will be on there too?
No. Anet and Valve had a disagreement and as such, GW2 will not be on Steam.
Originally Posted by Mike O’Brien, President and Founder of ArenaNet
No, it almost certainly won't be on Steam. Valve has some new business terms will keep almost all new MMOs off Steam.
Keep in mind the GW2 client is free to download from our web site and has no copy protection. (And if it's really important, you can add non-Steam games to your Steam library.)
That quote doesn't make sense to me and is factually false.
There are MMOs on Steam, EVE-Online (Sub), DDO (F2P) etc.
ANet had a disagreement with Value, fine. But I found that attack on Steam really unprofessional and expected better.
"Attack on Steam?" There was no attack on Steam. Anet disagrees with whatever terms that Valve placed on them, and so will many other MMO developers. I don't know what they are, but the point is, it's probably not going to be on there.
Shh. Saying a bad thing about Steam on popular gaming forums get's those torches and pitchforks out in seconds.
If i recall correctly the issue is pretty simple. Valve forced microtransactions to go through Steam instead of going through the actual developer/publisher, meaning they get a cut from it. Not eveyrone is willing to share their profits with Valve, which is udnerstandable, especially if you have strong enough franchise that can hold on it's own withotu the need of advertising on Steam.
Yeah, that seems like a pretty good reason to not put your game on there. Anet doesn't really need the added publicity from Steam, and they probably won't make enough to justify those cuts that Valve will take off the top.
Shh. Saying a bad thing about Steam on popular gaming forums get's those torches and pitchforks out in seconds.
If i recall correctly the issue is pretty simple. Valve forced microtransactions to go through Steam instead of going through the actual developer/publisher, meaning they get a cut from it. Not eveyrone is willing to share their profits with Valve, which is udnerstandable, especially if you have strong enough franchise that can hold on it's own withotu the need of advertising on Steam.
This post is factually false.
Valve does not force micro-transaction to go through Steam.
EVE-Online has MT and even if you buy the game from Steam, MT is done through CCP (Makers of EVE-Online).
Dealing with Steam is filled with NDA so you won't get much proof, but from what we have (public info), Valve doesn't restrict microtransaction to go through Steam.
If the dev wants to go through Steam, they can use the Steam Wallet feature.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
"Attack on Steam?" There was no attack on Steam. Anet disagrees with whatever terms that Valve placed on them, and so will many other MMO developers. I don't know what they are, but the point is, it's probably not going to be on there.
So you speak for 'other MMO developers'?
Like I said, disagreeing and deciding to not do XYZ together with someone is fine.
Disagreeing and then saying 'We didn't do XYZ together and so will other companies' is another issue.
Speaking for 'other' parties is unprofessional and makes you look petty.
I'm not; Arenanet is, and they would be right. It's perfectly valid reasoning, and frankly, they would know better than you would. They're not saying "we won't do it so no one should," they're saying "this is why we, along with many others, aren;t doing this."
It's hardly unprofessional; it's pointing out the facts of the system.
Shh. Saying a bad thing about Steam on popular gaming forums get's those torches and pitchforks out in seconds.
If i recall correctly the issue is pretty simple. Valve forced microtransactions to go through Steam instead of going through the actual developer/publisher, meaning they get a cut from it. Not eveyrone is willing to share their profits with Valve, which is udnerstandable, especially if you have strong enough franchise that can hold on it's own withotu the need of advertising on Steam.
This post is factually false.
Valve does not force micro-transaction to go through Steam.
EVE-Online has MT and even if you buy the game from Steam, MT is done through CCP (Makers of EVE-Online).
Dealing with Steam is filled with NDA so you won't get much proof, but from what we have (public info), Valve doesn't restrict microtransaction to go through Steam.
If the dev wants to go through Steam, they can use the Steam Wallet feature.
That's not what he's saying; he's saying that MTs of games that go through Steam will have some taken from the top, and this is true.
Shh. Saying a bad thing about Steam on popular gaming forums get's those torches and pitchforks out in seconds.
If i recall correctly the issue is pretty simple. Valve forced microtransactions to go through Steam instead of going through the actual developer/publisher, meaning they get a cut from it. Not eveyrone is willing to share their profits with Valve, which is udnerstandable, especially if you have strong enough franchise that can hold on it's own withotu the need of advertising on Steam.
This post is factually false.
Valve does not force micro-transaction to go through Steam.
EVE-Online has MT and even if you buy the game from Steam, MT is done through CCP (Makers of EVE-Online).
Dealing with Steam is filled with NDA so you won't get much proof, but from what we have (public info), Valve doesn't restrict microtransaction to go through Steam.
If the dev wants to go through Steam, they can use the Steam Wallet feature.
EVE was on steam before that. It started when Steam introduced F2P MMOs in their system, all of them go through Steam system these days. I'm not sure whenever it's restricted if your game is avalible outside of Steam as well (as in doesn't require Steam to run), but when You buy/download it thorugh Steam, then the ingame shop has to go through Steam services for MT.
Shh. Saying a bad thing about Steam on popular gaming forums get's those torches and pitchforks out in seconds. If i recall correctly the issue is pretty simple. Valve forced microtransactions to go through Steam instead of going through the actual developer/publisher, meaning they get a cut from it. Not eveyrone is willing to share their profits with Valve, which is udnerstandable, especially if you have strong enough franchise that can hold on it's own withotu the need of advertising on Steam.
This post is factually false.Valve does not force micro-transaction to go through Steam.EVE-Online has MT and even if you buy the game from Steam, MT is done through CCP (Makers of EVE-Online).Dealing with Steam is filled with NDA so you won't get much proof, but from what we have (public info), Valve doesn't restrict microtransaction to go through Steam.If the dev wants to go through Steam, they can use the Steam Wallet feature.
EVE was on steam before that. It started when Steam introduced F2P MMOs in their system, all of them go through Steam system these days. I'm not sure whenever it's restricted if your game is avalible outside of Steam as well (as in doesn't require Steam to run), but when You buy/download it thorugh Steam, then the ingame shop has to go through Steam services for MT.
I think someone should provide a link to the steam "dev" terms of service to put the debate straight once and for all?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
EVE was on steam before that. It started when Steam introduced F2P MMOs in their system, all of them go through Steam system these days. I'm not sure whenever it's restricted if your game is avalible outside of Steam as well (as in doesn't require Steam to run), but when You buy/download it thorugh Steam, then the ingame shop has to go through Steam services for MT.
Not true at all.
Valve doesn't force MT to go through Steam.
If I make a game and I want the MT to go through Steam, I can.
But I am not forced to even IF my game is on Steam.
ANet didn't elaborate what their disagreement was which is fine. I have no issue with that. Doubt ANet can anyway since Steam / Valve is NDA-Central. I did find ANet speaking for other developers unprofessional.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
No. Anet and Valve had a disagreement and as such, GW2 will not be on Steam.
Originally Posted by Mike O’Brien, President and Founder of ArenaNet
No, it almost certainly won't be on Steam. Valve has some new business terms will keep almost all new MMOs off Steam.
Keep in mind the GW2 client is free to download from our web site and has no copy protection. (And if it's really important, you can add non-Steam games to your Steam library.)
That quote doesn't make sense to me and is factually false.
There are MMOs on Steam, EVE-Online (Sub), DDO (F2P) etc.
ANet had a disagreement with Value, fine. But I found that attack on Steam really unprofessional and expected better.
Almost all new he said, those games are from 2003.
If I make a game and I want the MT to go through Steam, I can.
But I am not forced to even IF my game is on Steam.
ANet didn't elaborate what their disagreement was which is fine. I have no issue with that. Doubt ANet can anyway since Steam / Valve is NDA-Central. I did find ANet speaking for other developers unprofessional.
From F2P FAQ avalible on Steam:
If you wish to purchase in-game items or content, you will need to fund your Steam Wallet. Please see theSteam Wallet FAQ for more information.
If you wish to purchase in-game items or content, you will need to fund your Steam Wallet. Please see theSteam Wallet FAQ for more information.
And... this is relevant how?
GW2 is F2P? o_O
How many B2P MMOs with MT you know, other than GW1? Pretty mcuh all MMOs are either subscription or F2P. Perhaps Steam forces that MT on B2P aswell.
They do force singleplayer publishers to sell all avalible DLC through Steam (which is understandable to degree considering the compability issues that could occur otherwise).
They do it for two reasons: 1 is ease of access for customers. People who use Steam regularly generally want all patches and content be avalible through platform (hence the Steam Workshop thing as well). And 2: it's additional profit since they do cut from every transaction. It's not a charity business.
Everyone wants to maximize their profit. If a developer thinks they can make enough without the exposition on Steam why would they feel a need to share their pie with Valve? That's why You'll probably never see Blizzard games on Steam either. They don't need it.
Red 5 CEO Mark Kern addressed the issue on the official Firefall forums. Kern made it very clear htat he'd "love to find a way" to make a business relationship between Firefall and Steam work. In fact, Valve was so impressed with Firefall at PAX Prime that they did approach him about hosting on Steam. Unfortunately, Kern had to decline the offer at the time. He explained:
"Steam takes a chunk of the profit from each virtual item sale (since the game is free). This fee is quite large. It works for box games because box games don't have much development expense after the game is made. An online game, with servers, data centers, bandwidth and customer services, can incur costs of up to 60% on an ongoing basis. After Steam takes their share, there is little left over for ongoing content development or profit.
Steam, as Gabe likes to put it, has to offer a strong value proposition to developers. While it does for box games, it is less clear that it offers an online game much at this point, since it does nothing to share in the costs of operating such a game."
Before you jump on Steam and label them as greedy, Kern did clarify that Steam isn't taking 60%.
"I was referring to the operating costs of a large online game with full customer service support."
From F2P FAQ avalible on Steam: If you wish to purchase in-game items or content, you will need to fund your Steam Wallet. Please see theSteam Wallet FAQ for more information.
And... this is relevant how?
GW2 is F2P? o_O
Gw2 is essentially free to play PLUS you have to buy the "box".
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by NitthGw2 is essentially free to play PLUS you have to buy the "box".
Unless we are renaming 'B2P' to 'F2P' your post doesn't make sense.
Is Diablo3 'essentially free to play PLUS you have to buy the 'box'?
Blizzard can use whatever marketing terms they like but in my book if a game or service has a micro transaction system or an "in game shop" - free to play.Also remember, diablo 3 is not an mmorpg.
Mmorpg's are sold a service fun fact read your terms of use.
If I brought CiV5 - its a multiplayer game with numerous purchasable expansion packs. - not b2p or free to play.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by The_Korrigan Why would we (users) want the game to be on steam when we can freely download it directly from the developer's site? I don't see any advantage for us.
I dont know about you, but heres my advantage.
Games downloaded from steam are non metered though my isp, They don't count towards my monthly download.
And to a lesser degree.. Steam can also recommend games that i would enjoy based on gw2. Steam could provide achievements for gw2 Steam could track play statistics. Steam could connect me with other players that also purchased
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
If you wish to purchase in-game items or content, you will need to fund your Steam Wallet. Please see theSteam Wallet FAQ for more information.
this is relevant how?
GW2 is F2P? o_O
How many B2P MMOs with MT you know, other than GW1? Pretty much all MMOs are either subscription or F2P. Perhaps Steam forces that MT on B2P aswell.
Everyone wants to maximize their profit. If a developer thinks they can make enough without the exposition on Steam why would they feel a need to share their pie with Valve? That's why You'll probably never see Blizzard games on Steam either. They don't need it.
Originally posted by The_Korrigan Why would we (users) want the game to be on steam when we can freely download it directly from the developer's site? I don't see any advantage for us.
I dont know about you, but heres my advantage.
Games downloaded from steam are non metered though my isp, They don't count towards my monthly download.
And to a lesser degree Steam can also recommend games that i would enjoy based on gw2.
In my country, DSL Internet access is not limited in any way (except bandwidth of course), so I couldn't care less.
Nice "force the customer into a monopoly" system you describe there btw, I'm glad not to be forced into such stuff.
EDIT: I see your point btw, seems you don't have much choice (sadly)
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by The_Korrigan Why would we (users) want the game to be on steam when we can freely download it directly from the developer's site? I don't see any advantage for us.
I dont know about you, but heres my advantage.
Games downloaded from steam are non metered though my isp, They don't count towards my monthly download.
And to a lesser degree.. Steam can also recommend games that i would enjoy based on gw2. Steam could provide achievements for gw2 Steam could track play statistics. Steam could connect me with other players that also purchased
Yeah its really about that, I like steam as my go to platform, if I had my way all MMORPGs I own ( which are a lot ) would work straight through my steam account aswell no need to keep tabs on different passwords etc.. ( yeah I understand security bla bla bla, ill take my chance, never been hacked ever ), it also tracks all my friends and what they are playing, its just a convenient central way o setting things up without having to go through hundreds of websites everytime I need to download something.
And while I know you can add non steam games, I know most of my friends wont add it to Steam, it would have just been a lot more convenient if it was on Steam. Its not gonna be the end of the world tho I will still play it, just having a game on Steam has become my favorite way of having a game available to me. Been on Steam since beta, dont regret it one bit what a great service.
Comments
So you speak for 'other MMO developers'?
Like I said, disagreeing and deciding to not do XYZ together with someone is fine.
Disagreeing and then saying 'We didn't do XYZ together and so will other companies' is another issue.
Speaking for 'other' parties is unprofessional and makes you look petty.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Yeah, that seems like a pretty good reason to not put your game on there. Anet doesn't really need the added publicity from Steam, and they probably won't make enough to justify those cuts that Valve will take off the top.
This post is factually false.
Valve does not force micro-transaction to go through Steam.
EVE-Online has MT and even if you buy the game from Steam, MT is done through CCP (Makers of EVE-Online).
Dealing with Steam is filled with NDA so you won't get much proof, but from what we have (public info), Valve doesn't restrict microtransaction to go through Steam.
If the dev wants to go through Steam, they can use the Steam Wallet feature.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I'm not; Arenanet is, and they would be right. It's perfectly valid reasoning, and frankly, they would know better than you would. They're not saying "we won't do it so no one should," they're saying "this is why we, along with many others, aren;t doing this."
It's hardly unprofessional; it's pointing out the facts of the system.
That's not what he's saying; he's saying that MTs of games that go through Steam will have some taken from the top, and this is true.
EVE was on steam before that. It started when Steam introduced F2P MMOs in their system, all of them go through Steam system these days. I'm not sure whenever it's restricted if your game is avalible outside of Steam as well (as in doesn't require Steam to run), but when You buy/download it thorugh Steam, then the ingame shop has to go through Steam services for MT.
I think someone should provide a link to the steam "dev" terms of service to put the debate straight once and for all?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Not true at all.
Valve doesn't force MT to go through Steam.
If I make a game and I want the MT to go through Steam, I can.
But I am not forced to even IF my game is on Steam.
ANet didn't elaborate what their disagreement was which is fine. I have no issue with that. Doubt ANet can anyway since Steam / Valve is NDA-Central. I did find ANet speaking for other developers unprofessional.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Almost all new he said, those games are from 2003.
From F2P FAQ avalible on Steam:
If you wish to purchase in-game items or content, you will need to fund your Steam Wallet. Please see theSteam Wallet FAQ for more information.
Never understood why people need games to be sol through Steam.
You can add game to steam if you really feel you want., even if you havet bought it.
Pretty sure people are not upset at Steam not having GW2 at least on this thread.
I did took exception at the ANet's statements which was unprofessional but that's about it.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
And... this is relevant how?
GW2 is F2P? o_O
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
because I get a lot of stuff at 50%+ off
How many B2P MMOs with MT you know, other than GW1? Pretty mcuh all MMOs are either subscription or F2P. Perhaps Steam forces that MT on B2P aswell.
They do force singleplayer publishers to sell all avalible DLC through Steam (which is understandable to degree considering the compability issues that could occur otherwise).
They do it for two reasons: 1 is ease of access for customers. People who use Steam regularly generally want all patches and content be avalible through platform (hence the Steam Workshop thing as well). And 2: it's additional profit since they do cut from every transaction. It's not a charity business.
Everyone wants to maximize their profit. If a developer thinks they can make enough without the exposition on Steam why would they feel a need to share their pie with Valve? That's why You'll probably never see Blizzard games on Steam either. They don't need it.
some links
ANET comment already mentioned
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uodjr/im_a_guild_wars_2_developer_ama_about_the_next/c4x5bsu
Firefall also not coming to steam
http://www.gamezone.com/products/firefall/news/firefall-not-a-good-fit-for-steam-says-red-5-ceo
Red 5 CEO Mark Kern addressed the issue on the official Firefall forums. Kern made it very clear htat he'd "love to find a way" to make a business relationship between Firefall and Steam work. In fact, Valve was so impressed with Firefall at PAX Prime that they did approach him about hosting on Steam. Unfortunately, Kern had to decline the offer at the time. He explained:
Before you jump on Steam and label them as greedy, Kern did clarify that Steam isn't taking 60%.
"I was referring to the operating costs of a large online game with full customer service support."
EQ2 fan sites
Gw2 is essentially free to play PLUS you have to buy the "box".
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Once again, Firefall is F2P.
F2P Steam hosted-games has to go through Steam Wallet (apparently).
Last I checked, GW2 isn't F2P.
Heck, GW1 is under the 'Massively Multiplayer' label in Steam. http://store.steampowered.com/app/29540/
I have RIFT on Steam and I went through Trion store not Steam when I bought stuff.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Unless we are renaming 'B2P' to 'F2P' your post doesn't make sense.
Is Diablo3 'essentially free to play PLUS you have to buy the 'box'?
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Why would we (users) want the game to be on steam when we can freely download it directly from the developer's site? I don't see any advantage for us.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Blizzard can use whatever marketing terms they like but in my book if a game or service has a micro transaction system or an "in game shop" - free to play.Also remember, diablo 3 is not an mmorpg.
Mmorpg's are sold a service fun fact read your terms of use.
If I brought CiV5 - its a multiplayer game with numerous purchasable expansion packs. - not b2p or free to play.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I dont know about you, but heres my advantage.
Games downloaded from steam are non metered though my isp, They don't count towards my monthly download.
And to a lesser degree..
Steam can also recommend games that i would enjoy based on gw2.
Steam could provide achievements for gw2
Steam could track play statistics.
Steam could connect me with other players that also purchased
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
sounds reasonable to me
EQ2 fan sites
In my country, DSL Internet access is not limited in any way (except bandwidth of course), so I couldn't care less.
Nice "force the customer into a monopoly" system you describe there btw, I'm glad not to be forced into such stuff.
EDIT: I see your point btw, seems you don't have much choice (sadly)
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Yeah its really about that, I like steam as my go to platform, if I had my way all MMORPGs I own ( which are a lot ) would work straight through my steam account aswell no need to keep tabs on different passwords etc.. ( yeah I understand security bla bla bla, ill take my chance, never been hacked ever ), it also tracks all my friends and what they are playing, its just a convenient central way o setting things up without having to go through hundreds of websites everytime I need to download something.
And while I know you can add non steam games, I know most of my friends wont add it to Steam, it would have just been a lot more convenient if it was on Steam. Its not gonna be the end of the world tho I will still play it, just having a game on Steam has become my favorite way of having a game available to me. Been on Steam since beta, dont regret it one bit what a great service.