Doesn't it make you sick? I literally can't wrap my head around what these people see in having little 15-30 minute chunks of supposed entertainment.
You post that it makes you sick that other people play video games differently than you (#1stworldproblemz, maybe?) and then wonder why devs don't heed your sagely wisdom.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem is that not everyone likes the same thing, Some people enjoy Swtor though others like me think it was the worst mmo I have played in the last 7 years.
But MMO studios do read the interwebz, that is part of the problem actually, while you may get small, cynical and controversial views on MMORPG.com it is actually not representative of the larger MMORPG population or people that may be interested in MMO's. So I would say ( sadly ) that if anything MMO studios are listening too much to people, this is what causes this reinvent cycle that we have been having over the years.
Actually I am not entirely sure this is a bad thing, I have actually seen more people move over to what I would call the "mmorpg.com" camp where people have started to get tired of the same MMORPG model we have been having ( not because they are bad, but because while they mask themselves as revolutionary, they are in essence the same model of MMORPG ), which means that hopefully over time the genre will switch focus to something else until that becomes "more of the same", one can only hope.
Originally posted by k-damage Look at mmorpg.com : it's not so rare to find a very well constructed thread, with intelligent people having a perfectly mature discussion about what would or would not work for a precise feature in MMOs (housing, combat, etc).
Yeah, especially on SWTOR forums these days...
There is a difference between "a very well constructed thread, with intelligent people having a perfectly mature discussion" and illusory superiority...
I'm shocked noone has said this before: Its because the interwebz is full of idiots. OK maybe they're not all idiots, but they're ignorant. Just because you scribble something on your napkin doesn't mean it is good, or someone should make it.
Customer is not always right. Hell, customer is rarely right. We don't know want we want. We think we do but really we don't. Even if we did, we don't know how to express ourselves.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
In one closed beta , i complained in public chat about lack of auto attack feature. One of the devs answered in public chat attacking me how the game is action game, and auto attack will be against all that this represent.
Than he went on private chat to tell me that the game producer have this fix idea of having no auto attack , and how he fires everyone that tries to convince him otherwise.
So there you go , a good example how much developers listen to players feedback and reason....
It's been YEARS since there's a general consensus about what gamers want or do not want anymore. The global cry is so blatant and obvious that you just have to open your frickin browser, read a bunch of frickin threads, and that's it, you have the second coming of Christ for most gamers.
So why are we still seeing so many subscription sustainment failures like SWTOR ?? TSW ?? TERA ?? AOC ?? WAR ??? Millions after Millions of dollars gone to trash ?? Why do these studios want to fail so hard, seriously ? How can they put so many efforts in baiting for gamers interest with trailers, dev blogs, etc, only to reveal at launch that the other 70% of the game is subpar ?
When will these studios seriously start playing those games they want to make ?
It's all come down to that mmo games takes so long to make, and what we see released now, is based on the wisdom and knowledge that was about MMO's in 2007.
this was revolutionary in 2007 http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php with the title How to create a succesfull MMO. And that gives us gw2 now. Read it - and don't post in this thread without reading it. Because this explains alot .
Originally posted by Lobotomist Funny storyIn one closed beta , i complained in public chat about lack of auto attack feature. One of the devs answered in public chat attacking me how the game is action game, and auto attack will be against all that this represent.Than he went on private chat to tell me that the game producer have this fix idea of having no auto attack , and how he fires everyone that tries to convince him otherwise. So there you go , a good example how much developers listen to players feedback and reason....
And what's wrong with that or what you point even is?
It is their money, their responsibility thus it is only reasonable they decide where the money go. I see no issue there.
I've read all of your posts gents, and it's a very mature discussion, as often here. Thanks.
Originally posted by jondifool
this was revolutionary in 2007 http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php with the title How to create a succesfull MMO. And that gives us gw2 now. Read it - and don't post in this thread without reading it. Because this explains alot .
I already read that goldmine of advices, but I'll add it to the OP.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Originally posted by thekid1 Well, the forums got eerily quiet about that time so yes.But I was actually asking if they really charge money for ammo now..
And their financial statements reporting massive profits from in game store and game play affecting items are also not true because it was on forums...?
Well, the forums got eerily quiet about that time so yes.
But I was actually asking if they really charge money for ammo now..
And their financial statements reporting massive profits from in game store and game play affecting items are also not true because it was on forums...?
If you ask 100 customers about how their favourite product should be improved you'll most probably get 100 different answers. A forum article here, a forum article there isn't in any way more representative for the whole community. Especially if you keep in mind that forum participation in general doesn't reflect the whole playerbase.
So what should a game developer do? MMO companys aren't only companys with the goal to earn money. If their playerbase abandons them they are done. That means that it's not only the developers' responsability to design and improve gameplay. Knowing what the playerbase wants isn't that easy. And decreeing changes like you're running your own tiny kingdom is going to turn off players sometimes. Maybe some aspects of direct democracy might help improve the situation.
E.g. have elected player representatives which communicate with the developer.
The company or the representatives can gather all suggestions they find on the official forums and external forums and compile it. Suggestions could be put on a poll. The best solution to reach the whole player base would be to implement a poll system into the game client itself (to even reach people that avoid forums). And the poll results should be published afterwards.
Improving the game might not be so fast due to this process but the player base might be more likely to accept accepted changes.
Because there are millions of conflicting opinions on the internet?
If you read the internet, everybody hates World of Warcraft and it fails at everything. If you look at the reality, it is the most popular game around.
Every time a developer has tried to create a niche game by listening to the fans, it hasnt ended well. Some are even naive enough to think that niche concepts such as permadeath, full loot PvP and sandbox games will gain a mainstream level of subscribers.
Developers should focus on creating a game that they themselves would want to play, and let the playerbase develop around that. That is how Everquest 1 was made. If you dont find your own game fun how will thousands or millions of other players? Making games from a checklist of what people on the internet want is just a recipe for failure.
to the OP, you lost me when you excluded A-Net. Nothing GW2 is doing is different, revolutionary or all that spectacular.
Whatever you consider they're doing, they're at least set to have a big, sustainable playerbase for a long time, with a top quality MMO, due to quality gamedesign. Which is the thread's topic.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Comments
You post that it makes you sick that other people play video games differently than you (#1stworldproblemz, maybe?) and then wonder why devs don't heed your sagely wisdom.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
http://community.eveonline.com/ - bottom of the right column.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem is that not everyone likes the same thing, Some people enjoy Swtor though others like me think it was the worst mmo I have played in the last 7 years.
But MMO studios do read the interwebz, that is part of the problem actually, while you may get small, cynical and controversial views on MMORPG.com it is actually not representative of the larger MMORPG population or people that may be interested in MMO's. So I would say ( sadly
) that if anything MMO studios are listening too much to people, this is what causes this reinvent cycle that we have been having over the years.
Actually I am not entirely sure this is a bad thing, I have actually seen more people move over to what I would call the "mmorpg.com" camp where people have started to get tired of the same MMORPG model we have been having ( not because they are bad, but because while they mask themselves as revolutionary, they are in essence the same model of MMORPG ), which means that hopefully over time the genre will switch focus to something else until that becomes "more of the same", one can only hope.
Hmm Day Z is FREE.
There are plenty of F2P games with millions of players. How many does LOL has? Maple Story? Even Free Realsm have multiple million players.
900k is nothing amazing for a free game.
Yeah, especially on SWTOR forums these days...
There is a difference between "a very well constructed thread, with intelligent people having a perfectly mature discussion" and illusory superiority...
I'm shocked noone has said this before: Its because the interwebz is full of idiots. OK maybe they're not all idiots, but they're ignorant. Just because you scribble something on your napkin doesn't mean it is good, or someone should make it.
Customer is not always right. Hell, customer is rarely right. We don't know want we want. We think we do but really we don't. Even if we did, we don't know how to express ourselves.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Don't you have to buy the parent game before you can play the Day Z mod? Its not exactly free.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
MMO studio employees read the websites constantly.
However, market analysts don't.
Because we don't know we want but lucky for us they know exactly what we want.
I highly doubt we will ever get what we want which is why I have turned away from MMO's.
People know what they want but every each would need to design the game themselves and then they would find out what every developer already knows:
1) Not all ideas are viable, practical and realistically possible to implement. Especially after you give it a thought after initial enthusiasm...
2) Even if you think you are delivering exactly what you desired, it may easily turns out differently.
Sometimes it "works", sometimes it doesn't but there is no way to tell beforehand, only hints here and there are available.
Funny story
In one closed beta , i complained in public chat about lack of auto attack feature. One of the devs answered in public chat attacking me how the game is action game, and auto attack will be against all that this represent.
Than he went on private chat to tell me that the game producer have this fix idea of having no auto attack , and how he fires everyone that tries to convince him otherwise.
So there you go , a good example how much developers listen to players feedback and reason....
It's all come down to that mmo games takes so long to make, and what we see released now, is based on the wisdom and knowledge that was about MMO's in 2007.
this was revolutionary in 2007 http://www.guildwars.com/events/tradeshows/gc2007/gcspeech.php with the title How to create a succesfull MMO. And that gives us gw2 now. Read it - and don't post in this thread without reading it. Because this explains alot .
And what's wrong with that or what you point even is?
It is their money, their responsibility thus it is only reasonable they decide where the money go. I see no issue there.
Are you serious?
I stopped playing when they charged money for bandages (and better weapons)
And because you stopped, everyone else did..right?
I've read all of your posts gents, and it's a very mature discussion, as often here. Thanks.
I already read that goldmine of advices, but I'll add it to the OP.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
Well, the forums got eerily quiet about that time so yes.
But I was actually asking if they really charge money for ammo now..
And their financial statements reporting massive profits from in game store and game play affecting items are also not true because it was on forums...?
You might have missed this video:
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win
Enjoy!
Doesn't mean they have many players..
Anyway BF Heroes was the last straw and EA will never get another cent from me.
If you ask 100 customers about how their favourite product should be improved you'll most probably get 100 different answers. A forum article here, a forum article there isn't in any way more representative for the whole community. Especially if you keep in mind that forum participation in general doesn't reflect the whole playerbase.
So what should a game developer do? MMO companys aren't only companys with the goal to earn money. If their playerbase abandons them they are done. That means that it's not only the developers' responsability to design and improve gameplay. Knowing what the playerbase wants isn't that easy. And decreeing changes like you're running your own tiny kingdom is going to turn off players sometimes. Maybe some aspects of direct democracy might help improve the situation.
E.g. have elected player representatives which communicate with the developer.
The company or the representatives can gather all suggestions they find on the official forums and external forums and compile it. Suggestions could be put on a poll. The best solution to reach the whole player base would be to implement a poll system into the game client itself (to even reach people that avoid forums). And the poll results should be published afterwards.
Improving the game might not be so fast due to this process but the player base might be more likely to accept accepted changes.
Pretty much agree with this
to the OP, you lost me when you excluded A-Net. Nothing GW2 is doing is different, revolutionary or all that spectacular.
Considering there is a minority paying for virtual goods, it is unlikely there is a small player base turning profits they are reporting.
Whatever you consider they're doing, they're at least set to have a big, sustainable playerbase for a long time, with a top quality MMO, due to quality gamedesign. Which is the thread's topic.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****