I am not going to read thru the thread but listening to people on the interweb is stupid. The main reason for that is the internet forums are not every representive of group of gamers. The forums are usually jammed pack with the hardcore gamers, which unfortunately are do not represent the majority of gamers.
If you were to read the forums, call of duty is the worst game ever made, "day one" DLC is the biggest rip off for gamers ever, but unfortunately none of those things are actually true for the majority of gamer out there. Look at this forum, if you were to design a game based on it, every game would be a sandbox, with permadeath and it will sell like hotcakes, but you and I both know tha is not true.
There is a reason why companies spend millions doing focus groups is because you are more likely to get an honest representation of gamer.
Can't imagine why, the only thing they did read, was by hiring some press posters to come to sites like these and act like total fanboys to try to offset all the negative they got when this game launched. It's obvious go look at the old posts in these forums and see all the four billion (DELETED USERS) everywhere. it's not from breaking the rules folks, they did their job and now it's off to the next job for whatever game will launch with bad code and broken promises next.
We won't see good MMO's again until gamers start making games...again.
UO, AC, EQ were made by people with a love of the genre, and a passion for gaming, not for profit considerations. Thats what made them so greatIMO. The people making the worlds wanted what other gamers wanted...a virtual world to live in, explore, and be a part of. When the suits got involved, it was game over(no pun intended).
So until the genre comes full circle and gets back to it's roots, this trend of crappy MMO's and clones will sadly continue.
I think this is one thing that WoW is actually PARTIALLY to blame for.
Before WoW, MMOs where a niche genre, the average MMO had, what? maybe a couple thousand subs? Even EQ came no where CLOSE to making the same amount of money WoW does, taking into account inflation or not.
then WoW came along and all every other studio just saw dollar signs in their eyes, they didn't ask "Why is this game popular?" they asked "how do we make that much money?"
Playing Nothing waiting for The secret world Played WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
Can't imagine why, the only thing they did read, was by hiring some press posters to come to sites like these and act like total fanboys to try to offset all the negative they got when this game launched. It's obvious go look at the old posts in these forums and see all the four billion (DELETED USERS) everywhere. it's not from breaking the rules folks, they did their job and now it's off to the next job for whatever game will launch with bad code and broken promises next.
Interesting observation ... wouldn't surprise me.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
"Why don't MMO studios just read the interwebs ??"
Oh, I'm sure they do. However, whether they can draw any usefull conclusions from what they read is highly doubtful
The combined actively posting population of the 3 biggest MMO websites probably represents 0.001% of the MMO players in the world. And no, that's not statistically representative sample, because they are self-selected.
And even in that teensy tiny group, opinions are mostly quite divergent !
The majority of posters ("everyone") on MMORPG.COM wants "something different to the tired MMO formula", but nobody can propose a solution that the majority likes (and that's if they even bother to propose a solution, instead of just whining). And how relevant are these few thousand complaints when compared to the 15M-20M active players of current MMO's (sub and F2P) that are all made according to the "tired old MMO formula" ?
Nobody wants a WoW clone, but if a new MMO doesn't have all the "good" features of WoW, everyone complains bitterly. Perhaps people want a game that's just like WoW, but totally different ?
Comments
I am not going to read thru the thread but listening to people on the interweb is stupid. The main reason for that is the internet forums are not every representive of group of gamers. The forums are usually jammed pack with the hardcore gamers, which unfortunately are do not represent the majority of gamers.
If you were to read the forums, call of duty is the worst game ever made, "day one" DLC is the biggest rip off for gamers ever, but unfortunately none of those things are actually true for the majority of gamer out there. Look at this forum, if you were to design a game based on it, every game would be a sandbox, with permadeath and it will sell like hotcakes, but you and I both know tha is not true.
There is a reason why companies spend millions doing focus groups is because you are more likely to get an honest representation of gamer.
To conclude, gamers on the forum represent only a small percentage of the total population of gamers. If you look solely at the opinions of forum dwellers you will probably end up with a niche product which is fine, but if you want to make big bank you gotta look at the bigger picture. honestly, I think steve jobs said it best "It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
And that is what I think companies should be doing.
Can't imagine why, the only thing they did read, was by hiring some press posters to come to sites like these and act like total fanboys to try to offset all the negative they got when this game launched. It's obvious go look at the old posts in these forums and see all the four billion (DELETED USERS) everywhere. it's not from breaking the rules folks, they did their job and now it's off to the next job for whatever game will launch with bad code and broken promises next.
I think this is one thing that WoW is actually PARTIALLY to blame for.
Before WoW, MMOs where a niche genre, the average MMO had, what? maybe a couple thousand subs? Even EQ came no where CLOSE to making the same amount of money WoW does, taking into account inflation or not.
then WoW came along and all every other studio just saw dollar signs in their eyes, they didn't ask "Why is this game popular?" they asked "how do we make that much money?"
Playing
Nothing
waiting for
The secret world
Played
WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
Interesting observation ... wouldn't surprise me.
***** Before hitting that reply button, please READ the WHOLE thread you're about to post in *****
"Why don't MMO studios just read the interwebs ??"
Oh, I'm sure they do. However, whether they can draw any usefull conclusions from what they read is highly doubtful
The combined actively posting population of the 3 biggest MMO websites probably represents 0.001% of the MMO players in the world. And no, that's not statistically representative sample, because they are self-selected.
And even in that teensy tiny group, opinions are mostly quite divergent !
The majority of posters ("everyone") on MMORPG.COM wants "something different to the tired MMO formula", but nobody can propose a solution that the majority likes (and that's if they even bother to propose a solution, instead of just whining). And how relevant are these few thousand complaints when compared to the 15M-20M active players of current MMO's (sub and F2P) that are all made according to the "tired old MMO formula" ?
Nobody wants a WoW clone, but if a new MMO doesn't have all the "good" features of WoW, everyone complains bitterly. Perhaps people want a game that's just like WoW, but totally different ?