Originally posted by otinanai123 You just dinged 80. You don't like leveling alts and want to finally experience GW2's endgame. What will keep you occupied for a whole year until the next expansion?
Im not sure we can accurately answer this stupid question. Right now all we have is word on what the endgame will be by the developers. We dont have solid info the dungeons or ay other special above lvl 80 things to do.
What we do know is the obvious:
do PvP in both flavours(pvp and wvw)
repeat or find new events
repeat dungeons of lower levels
grind for:
special weapons
leveling up crafting jobs
titles
be the richest player in the world
etc
These things aren't really endgame... You do these things the whole game.
So grind for cosmetic weapons and titles. Like we knew all along.
Their dungeons descriptions on their website sounds exactly like the definition of a raid. So what is GW2 missing should be the question for those that are upset about whatever percieved lack of endgame there is.
So, what are you missing from GW2 that you believe should be there for endgame content?(not sarcasm, just curious, cause gw2 sounds like an mmo, like the many before it. I'm only going to give it a try to see if it evokes any sence of playing DAoC, but I'm curious as to what people really think its missing)
Originally posted by DJJazzy I'm starting to see why sandbox mmos really aren't that well accepted by a lot of people.
I require an explanation.
From this and other threads the majority of people want clear direction in their mmos. A sandbox is what you make of it so you make your own goals in the game.
Originally posted by DJJazzy I'm starting to see why sandbox mmos really aren't that well accepted by a lot of people.
I agree so many seem to NEED that concrete set in stone this is what the game is about structure. Sandbox games don't have that and let you play how you want to and although GW2 is a straight themepark its philosophy on certain aspects borrows from this and as you can see here it confuses and seems to annoy a lot of people.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I remember a time when the "endgame" in WoW felt jarring to people. You played one way the entire game and then the game completely changed once you hit max level. Games weren't really like that before WoW. I don't even remember if the term "endgame" was coined for MMORPGs before then.
In GW2, the experience at endgame is not going to have that jarring effect. Or at least that is their goal. What you do during the game is going to be similar to what you do once you hit cap. Apparently the content gets more and more epic the higher you get until you get to a point where hearts no longer exist and massive DE chains are the centerpiece of the PvE experience. Alongside that, there are options to do sPvP, WvW, Dungeons and personal story at your leisure.
Originally posted by otinanai123 You just dinged 80. You don't like leveling alts and want to finally experience GW2's endgame. What will keep you occupied for a whole year until the next expansion?
Im not sure we can accurately answer this stupid question. Right now all we have is word on what the endgame will be by the developers. We dont have solid info the dungeons or ay other special above lvl 80 things to do.
What we do know is the obvious:
do PvP in both flavours(pvp and wvw)
repeat or find new events
repeat dungeons of lower levels
grind for:
special weapons
leveling up crafting jobs
titles
be the richest player in the world
etc
These things aren't really endgame... You do these things the whole game.
So grind for cosmetic weapons and titles. Like we knew all along.
Their dungeons descriptions on their website sounds exactly like the definition of a raid. So what is GW2 missing should be the question for those that are upset about whatever percieved lack of endgame there is.
So, what are you missing from GW2 that you believe should be there for endgame content?(not sarcasm, just curious, cause gw2 sounds like an mmo, like the many before it. I'm only going to give it a try to see if it evokes any sence of playing DAoC, but I'm curious as to what people really think its missing)
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
I remember a time when the "endgame" in WoW felt jarring to people. You played one way the entire game and then the game completely changed once you hit max level. Games weren't really like that before WoW. I don't even remember if the term "endgame" was coined for MMORPGs before then.
WoW and other games like it are bimodal games. Really two game structures in one.
I remember a time when the "endgame" in WoW felt jarring to people. You played one way the entire game and then the game completely changed once you hit max level. Games weren't really like that before WoW. I don't even remember if the term "endgame" was coined for MMORPGs before then.
In GW2, the experience at endgame is not going to have that jarring effect. Or at least that is their goal. What you do during the game is going to be similar to what you do once you hit cap. Apparently the content gets more and more epic the higher you get until you get to a point where hearts no longer exist and massive DE chains are the centerpiece of the PvE experience. Alongside that, there are options to do sPvP, WvW, Dungeons and personal story at your leisure.
I think most of the traditional end game - gear treadmill and tiers of gear - can be attributed to Everquest 1 long before Blizzard stole all their ideas and dumbed it down for the general populace. They didn't call it Evercrack for nothing.
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
I was going to post that they wanted the "Infinity Sword of insta kill, grindy treadmills, and everyone else is a whiny noob who deserves nothing and I am a skilled player because I am skilled and not because I have this unfairly powerful weapon" +1000, but I thought it was too insulting.
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
I was going to post that they wanted the "Infinity Sword of insta kill, grindy treadmills, and everyone else is a whiny noob who deserves nothing and I am a skilled player because I am skilled and not because I have this unfairly powerful weapon" +1000, but I thought it was too insulting.
last game I did this in was Rift and never again.. I grinded warfronts just to finaly get that top rank gear and for what? I can now 3v1 low rankers? I can wait couple months till they release a new set of ranks to grind some more? I know it still has an appeal to many as it used ot appeal to me as well but just can't bring myself to play another one of those types of games. Skill, experience and awsome looking cosmetic gear should be reward enough for people in PVP as long as combat is fun and varied.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I think most of the traditional end game - gear treadmill and tiers of gear - can be attributed to Everquest 1 long before Blizzard stole all their ideas and dumbed it down for the general populace. They didn't call it Evercrack for nothing.
I'm not sure if you actually played EQ, but I did. I think you are overstating the prevalence of the "gear treadmill" and "tiered gear" in at least the early EQ. It really wasn't like that at all when I played.
Originally posted by otinanai123 You just dinged 80. You don't like leveling alts and want to finally experience GW2's endgame. What will keep you occupied for a whole year until the next expansion?
Im not sure we can accurately answer this stupid question. Right now all we have is word on what the endgame will be by the developers. We dont have solid info the dungeons or ay other special above lvl 80 things to do.
What we do know is the obvious:
do PvP in both flavours(pvp and wvw)
repeat or find new events
repeat dungeons of lower levels
grind for:
special weapons
leveling up crafting jobs
titles
be the richest player in the world
etc
These things aren't really endgame... You do these things the whole game.
So grind for cosmetic weapons and titles. Like we knew all along.
Their dungeons descriptions on their website sounds exactly like the definition of a raid. So what is GW2 missing should be the question for those that are upset about whatever percieved lack of endgame there is.
So, what are you missing from GW2 that you believe should be there for endgame content?(not sarcasm, just curious, cause gw2 sounds like an mmo, like the many before it. I'm only going to give it a try to see if it evokes any sence of playing DAoC, but I'm curious as to what people really think its missing)
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
These type of gamers won the battle for the soul of WoW. Now they heralding GW2 as the one, being built in their image of what a mmorpg should be by design.
Time played means nothing. Battles won yeild no power. No fear of someone having something better than you, no matter how little you play or how bad you are.
@ poster above. Raids are about the only thing miissing as far as game play. The orange text explains why.
I think most of the traditional end game - gear treadmill and tiers of gear - can be attributed to Everquest 1 long before Blizzard stole all their ideas and dumbed it down for the general populace. They didn't call it Evercrack for nothing.
I'm not sure if you actually played EQ, but I did. I think you are overstating the prevalence of the "gear treadmill" and "tiered gear" in at least the early EQ. It really wasn't like that at all when I played.
Not sure how you missed the raid progression. Its why they provided 'progression servers' which unlocked new content and expansions as people cleared the tiered raids.
Originally posted by otinanai123 You just dinged 80. You don't like leveling alts and want to finally experience GW2's endgame. What will keep you occupied for a whole year until the next expansion?
Im not sure we can accurately answer this stupid question. Right now all we have is word on what the endgame will be by the developers. We dont have solid info the dungeons or ay other special above lvl 80 things to do.
What we do know is the obvious:
do PvP in both flavours(pvp and wvw)
repeat or find new events
repeat dungeons of lower levels
grind for:
special weapons
leveling up crafting jobs
titles
be the richest player in the world
etc
These things aren't really endgame... You do these things the whole game.
So grind for cosmetic weapons and titles. Like we knew all along.
Their dungeons descriptions on their website sounds exactly like the definition of a raid. So what is GW2 missing should be the question for those that are upset about whatever percieved lack of endgame there is.
So, what are you missing from GW2 that you believe should be there for endgame content?(not sarcasm, just curious, cause gw2 sounds like an mmo, like the many before it. I'm only going to give it a try to see if it evokes any sence of playing DAoC, but I'm curious as to what people really think its missing)
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
Thats actually a pretty sad truth unfortunately. I saw that crap in swtor, nobody wanted to duel unless they where a higher level lol. Than Bioware had what 4 tiers of gear for pvp right off that bat, that shit what pathetic. As soon as everyone was in warhero the "hard core pvpers" started to disapear lol, go figure.(I'm thinking its a hard pill to swallow when you realize that when everyones in the same gear some of those elite pvp studs that put 12 hours a day into a game to be fully geared in a week, get owned by a casual that finally closed the gear gap over a period of months)
Me personally I like the idea of the WvW, but in all honesty I wonder if it will just be zerging at its best. After watching a review by that cynical brit guy on youtube for planetside 2, it looks like the only game coming where objectives are divided in a way to make zerging a stupid strategy, and where skill is the great equalizer and not gear. Of course, thats all planetside looks like it has none of the other crap.
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
I was going to post that they wanted the "Infinity Sword of insta kill, grindy treadmills, and everyone else is a whiny noob who deserves nothing and I am a skilled player because I am skilled and not because I have this unfairly powerful weapon" +1000, but I thought it was too insulting.
last game I did this in was Rift and never again.. I grinded warfronts just to finaly get that top rank gear and for what? I can now 3v1 low rankers? I can wait couple months till they release a new set of ranks to grind some more? I know it still has an appeal to many as it used ot appeal to me as well but just can't bring myself to play another one of those types of games. Skill, experience and awsome looking cosmetic gear should be reward enough for people in PVP as long as combat is fun and varied.
There's glory in overcoming the odds and progressing beyond. I don't mind being the underdog because I know I'm good. I've never ever onve said "He beat me because he has better gear." In my eyes that is the ultimate cop out.
Originally posted by otinanai123 You just dinged 80. You don't like leveling alts and want to finally experience GW2's endgame. What will keep you occupied for a whole year until the next expansion?
Im not sure we can accurately answer this stupid question. Right now all we have is word on what the endgame will be by the developers. We dont have solid info the dungeons or ay other special above lvl 80 things to do.
What we do know is the obvious:
do PvP in both flavours(pvp and wvw)
repeat or find new events
repeat dungeons of lower levels
grind for:
special weapons
leveling up crafting jobs
titles
be the richest player in the world
etc
These things aren't really endgame... You do these things the whole game.
So grind for cosmetic weapons and titles. Like we knew all along.
Their dungeons descriptions on their website sounds exactly like the definition of a raid. So what is GW2 missing should be the question for those that are upset about whatever percieved lack of endgame there is.
So, what are you missing from GW2 that you believe should be there for endgame content?(not sarcasm, just curious, cause gw2 sounds like an mmo, like the many before it. I'm only going to give it a try to see if it evokes any sence of playing DAoC, but I'm curious as to what people really think its missing)
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
These type of gamers won the battle for the soul of WoW. Now they heralding GW2 as the one, being built in their image of what a mmorpg should be by design.
Time played means nothing. Battles won yeild no power. No fear of someone having something better than you, no matter how little you play or how bad you are.
@ poster above. Raids are about the only thing miissing as far as game play. The orange text explains why.
1. I thought this game didn't have a gear treadmill, so it doesn't seem like GW2 is really being built like WoW at all.
2. I was under the impression that titles, ranks and all the measurements of success where there, just not available for Beta? Am I wrong?
3. Raid, fight through trash mobs, solve a puzzle, kill a boss- dungeon, fight through trash mobs, solve a puzzle, kill a boss repeat. They sound pretty damn similiar in my opinion, except with dungeons you can take some pride in how far your guilds progressed through them? Where as raids have become-I beat normal, hard, and nightmare mode?
I think most of the traditional end game - gear treadmill and tiers of gear - can be attributed to Everquest 1 long before Blizzard stole all their ideas and dumbed it down for the general populace. They didn't call it Evercrack for nothing.
I'm not sure if you actually played EQ, but I did. I think you are overstating the prevalence of the "gear treadmill" and "tiered gear" in at least the early EQ. It really wasn't like that at all when I played.
Not sure how you missed the raid progression. Its why they provided 'progression servers' which unlocked new content and expansions as people cleared the tiered raids.
It took 9 years for them to introduce the first progression server. That was in 2008 I think. It's also after a helluva lot of expansions (like 14 or 15 according to the wiki). The early years of EQ were a lot different than the later years. While raiding existed, the idea that there was "tiered gear" and "gear treadmills" early on isn't really the truth of it.
You can see the tiers of raiding right there. Classic gear treadmill long before WoW was even a glimmer in Blizzards eye."
You can see raid bosses. You can see expansions which raised the level cap and once you got to the new level cap you would have to get more gear. But really, they didn't ahve mid expansion updates that made it so you had to grind gear to see content. It was different back then.
There's glory in overcoming the odds and progressing beyond. I don't mind being the underdog because I know I'm good. I've never ever onve said "He beat me because he has better gear." In my eyes that is the ultimate cop out.
the issue is in most tier based gear progression games its not about overcoming the odds its that you have NO CHANCE in hell of beating a person higher ranked. When Rift was 8 ranks it was pretty much impossible for a Rank 8 to loose to a Rank 5 or below no matter how good the Rank 4 person is because of how huge the gear gap is. I dunno how you could of played games likfe Rift or Wow or any of the others in PVP and not experienced getting destroyed by people way better geared than yourself. How is it the ultimate cop out when you stand no chance no matter how good you are because gear is the largest factor when someones gear is several tiers higher than you.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There's glory in overcoming the odds and progressing beyond. I don't mind being the underdog because I know I'm good. I've never ever onve said "He beat me because he has better gear." In my eyes that is the ultimate cop out.
It's not really a copout when you are one shotted or killed during a CC lock the enemy performed from stealth. It's not like traditional MMORPGs involve much skill to the point you can overcome gear deficiencies. You can't jump into a match and expect to do well over an opponent or opponents that simply outgears you in most MMOs even if you really are a more skilled player than them. In Guild Wars 2 you can, not only because you are placed on an equal playing field as the other player, but because combat has a much larger skill ceiling than most MMOs with the way the game is setup (and it's not just dodging at the appropriate time either, the whole of the combat is a huge improvement over most MMOs and closer to what you'd see in an action RPG).
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
I was going to post that they wanted the "Infinity Sword of insta kill, grindy treadmills, and everyone else is a whiny noob who deserves nothing and I am a skilled player because I am skilled and not because I have this unfairly powerful weapon" +1000, but I thought it was too insulting.
last game I did this in was Rift and never again.. I grinded warfronts just to finaly get that top rank gear and for what? I can now 3v1 low rankers? I can wait couple months till they release a new set of ranks to grind some more? I know it still has an appeal to many as it used ot appeal to me as well but just can't bring myself to play another one of those types of games. Skill, experience and awsome looking cosmetic gear should be reward enough for people in PVP as long as combat is fun and varied.
I got exactly the same feeling from WoW and SWTOR PvP. After you had max tier gear it was just embarrasing how easily you mowed down the enemy. Doing Arenas in WoW pretty much ruined any battleground and overworld PvP for me. My Shadowpriest and Druid were pretty much invincible and that doesn't make for a fun fight.
Its why whenever I need a PvP fix I load up GW1 or LoL. Other MMOs are just about the gear, not the player.
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
I was going to post that they wanted the "Infinity Sword of insta kill, grindy treadmills, and everyone else is a whiny noob who deserves nothing and I am a skilled player because I am skilled and not because I have this unfairly powerful weapon" +1000, but I thought it was too insulting.
last game I did this in was Rift and never again.. I grinded warfronts just to finaly get that top rank gear and for what? I can now 3v1 low rankers? I can wait couple months till they release a new set of ranks to grind some more? I know it still has an appeal to many as it used ot appeal to me as well but just can't bring myself to play another one of those types of games. Skill, experience and awsome looking cosmetic gear should be reward enough for people in PVP as long as combat is fun and varied.
There's glory in overcoming the odds and progressing beyond. I don't mind being the underdog because I know I'm good. I've never ever onve said "He beat me because he has better gear." In my eyes that is the ultimate cop out.
If you want to have a difference in power and overcome the odds, all you gotta do is choose to pvp naked or give yourself a weak build. You can than overcome it and brag about how good you are, and how meaningful your victory was. The game supports you making that choice. You're welcome for the information.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
I play a realworld game called "marriage". It has endgame with advanced economy and lots of drama. Endgame is called "divorce". I feel quite lucky that the rush to endgame is not high on my agenda.
Game however is both challenging and fun but the sub-fee is a bit steep.
In GW2 I expect to look for the same minus the sub-fee.
I think most of the traditional end game - gear treadmill and tiers of gear - can be attributed to Everquest 1 long before Blizzard stole all their ideas and dumbed it down for the general populace. They didn't call it Evercrack for nothing.
I'm not sure if you actually played EQ, but I did. I think you are overstating the prevalence of the "gear treadmill" and "tiered gear" in at least the early EQ. It really wasn't like that at all when I played.
Not sure how you missed the raid progression. Its why they provided 'progression servers' which unlocked new content and expansions as people cleared the tiered raids.
It took 9 years for them to introduce the first progression server. That was in 2008 I think. It's also after a helluva lot of expansions (like 14 or 15 according to the wiki). The early years of EQ were a lot different than the later years. While raiding existed, the idea that there was "tiered gear" and "gear treadmills" early on isn't really the truth of it.
You can see the tiers of raiding right there. Classic gear treadmill long before WoW was even a glimmer in Blizzards eye."
You can see raid bosses. You can see expansions which raised the level cap and once you got to the new level cap you would have to get more gear. But really, they didn't ahve mid expansion updates that made it so you had to grind gear to see content. It was different back then.
There was progression at launch, although it really kicked into gear after the Kurnark expansion (one year after launch).
For the record they introduced Innoruuk and Cazic Thule as raid targets between launch and the first expansion to keep people grinding gear until they launched new content.
Really have no idea what game you were playing if you dont think there were tiers of gear according to zone difficulty and progression.
Yes EQ had a gear grind at max level. The difference was the amount to time it took to reach that far and once you were there. You could play for months or years to attain what can be gained in a month or two in WoW or other current end game gear grinders.
Comments
I require an explanation.
Their dungeons descriptions on their website sounds exactly like the definition of a raid. So what is GW2 missing should be the question for those that are upset about whatever percieved lack of endgame there is.
So, what are you missing from GW2 that you believe should be there for endgame content?(not sarcasm, just curious, cause gw2 sounds like an mmo, like the many before it. I'm only going to give it a try to see if it evokes any sence of playing DAoC, but I'm curious as to what people really think its missing)
From this and other threads the majority of people want clear direction in their mmos. A sandbox is what you make of it so you make your own goals in the game.
I agree so many seem to NEED that concrete set in stone this is what the game is about structure. Sandbox games don't have that and let you play how you want to and although GW2 is a straight themepark its philosophy on certain aspects borrows from this and as you can see here it confuses and seems to annoy a lot of people.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I remember a time when the "endgame" in WoW felt jarring to people. You played one way the entire game and then the game completely changed once you hit max level. Games weren't really like that before WoW. I don't even remember if the term "endgame" was coined for MMORPGs before then.
In GW2, the experience at endgame is not going to have that jarring effect. Or at least that is their goal. What you do during the game is going to be similar to what you do once you hit cap. Apparently the content gets more and more epic the higher you get until you get to a point where hearts no longer exist and massive DE chains are the centerpiece of the PvE experience. Alongside that, there are options to do sPvP, WvW, Dungeons and personal story at your leisure.
What all these posts are about is that people want to make a heavy time investment so they can be innately better than someone who doesn't play the game as much as them. They want to spending weeks and months grinding gear so they can blow up new players in PvP or make them feel inadequate in PvE just so they can feel special about themselves, dispite the gear doing pretty much all the work for them.
Noone wants a challenge anymore, they all want the godmode cheats turned on. Thats why there are so many threads like this. How can anyone possibly have fun by doing challenging PvP and PvE content? Why even bother unless I can be better than everyone who doesn't have the same time investment? This is what it all boils down to, and it is a sad state of affairs.
WoW and other games like it are bimodal games. Really two game structures in one.
I think most of the traditional end game - gear treadmill and tiers of gear - can be attributed to Everquest 1 long before Blizzard stole all their ideas and dumbed it down for the general populace. They didn't call it Evercrack for nothing.
I was going to post that they wanted the "Infinity Sword of insta kill, grindy treadmills, and everyone else is a whiny noob who deserves nothing and I am a skilled player because I am skilled and not because I have this unfairly powerful weapon" +1000, but I thought it was too insulting.
last game I did this in was Rift and never again.. I grinded warfronts just to finaly get that top rank gear and for what? I can now 3v1 low rankers? I can wait couple months till they release a new set of ranks to grind some more? I know it still has an appeal to many as it used ot appeal to me as well but just can't bring myself to play another one of those types of games. Skill, experience and awsome looking cosmetic gear should be reward enough for people in PVP as long as combat is fun and varied.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I'm not sure if you actually played EQ, but I did. I think you are overstating the prevalence of the "gear treadmill" and "tiered gear" in at least the early EQ. It really wasn't like that at all when I played.
These type of gamers won the battle for the soul of WoW. Now they heralding GW2 as the one, being built in their image of what a mmorpg should be by design.
Time played means nothing. Battles won yeild no power. No fear of someone having something better than you, no matter how little you play or how bad you are.
@ poster above. Raids are about the only thing miissing as far as game play. The orange text explains why.
Not sure how you missed the raid progression. Its why they provided 'progression servers' which unlocked new content and expansions as people cleared the tiered raids.
Edit: http://www.everquest.com/progression-timeline?sid=156
You can see the tiers of raiding right there. Classic gear treadmill long before WoW was even a glimmer in Blizzards eye.
Thats actually a pretty sad truth unfortunately. I saw that crap in swtor, nobody wanted to duel unless they where a higher level lol. Than Bioware had what 4 tiers of gear for pvp right off that bat, that shit what pathetic. As soon as everyone was in warhero the "hard core pvpers" started to disapear lol, go figure.(I'm thinking its a hard pill to swallow when you realize that when everyones in the same gear some of those elite pvp studs that put 12 hours a day into a game to be fully geared in a week, get owned by a casual that finally closed the gear gap over a period of months)
Me personally I like the idea of the WvW, but in all honesty I wonder if it will just be zerging at its best. After watching a review by that cynical brit guy on youtube for planetside 2, it looks like the only game coming where objectives are divided in a way to make zerging a stupid strategy, and where skill is the great equalizer and not gear. Of course, thats all planetside looks like it has none of the other crap.
There's glory in overcoming the odds and progressing beyond. I don't mind being the underdog because I know I'm good. I've never ever onve said "He beat me because he has better gear." In my eyes that is the ultimate cop out.
1. I thought this game didn't have a gear treadmill, so it doesn't seem like GW2 is really being built like WoW at all.
2. I was under the impression that titles, ranks and all the measurements of success where there, just not available for Beta? Am I wrong?
3. Raid, fight through trash mobs, solve a puzzle, kill a boss- dungeon, fight through trash mobs, solve a puzzle, kill a boss repeat. They sound pretty damn similiar in my opinion, except with dungeons you can take some pride in how far your guilds progressed through them? Where as raids have become-I beat normal, hard, and nightmare mode?
It took 9 years for them to introduce the first progression server. That was in 2008 I think. It's also after a helluva lot of expansions (like 14 or 15 according to the wiki). The early years of EQ were a lot different than the later years. While raiding existed, the idea that there was "tiered gear" and "gear treadmills" early on isn't really the truth of it.
Edit:
"Edit: http://www.everquest.com/progression-timeline?sid=156
You can see the tiers of raiding right there. Classic gear treadmill long before WoW was even a glimmer in Blizzards eye."
You can see raid bosses. You can see expansions which raised the level cap and once you got to the new level cap you would have to get more gear. But really, they didn't ahve mid expansion updates that made it so you had to grind gear to see content. It was different back then.
the issue is in most tier based gear progression games its not about overcoming the odds its that you have NO CHANCE in hell of beating a person higher ranked. When Rift was 8 ranks it was pretty much impossible for a Rank 8 to loose to a Rank 5 or below no matter how good the Rank 4 person is because of how huge the gear gap is. I dunno how you could of played games likfe Rift or Wow or any of the others in PVP and not experienced getting destroyed by people way better geared than yourself. How is it the ultimate cop out when you stand no chance no matter how good you are because gear is the largest factor when someones gear is several tiers higher than you.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
It's not really a copout when you are one shotted or killed during a CC lock the enemy performed from stealth. It's not like traditional MMORPGs involve much skill to the point you can overcome gear deficiencies. You can't jump into a match and expect to do well over an opponent or opponents that simply outgears you in most MMOs even if you really are a more skilled player than them. In Guild Wars 2 you can, not only because you are placed on an equal playing field as the other player, but because combat has a much larger skill ceiling than most MMOs with the way the game is setup (and it's not just dodging at the appropriate time either, the whole of the combat is a huge improvement over most MMOs and closer to what you'd see in an action RPG).
I got exactly the same feeling from WoW and SWTOR PvP. After you had max tier gear it was just embarrasing how easily you mowed down the enemy. Doing Arenas in WoW pretty much ruined any battleground and overworld PvP for me. My Shadowpriest and Druid were pretty much invincible and that doesn't make for a fun fight.
Its why whenever I need a PvP fix I load up GW1 or LoL. Other MMOs are just about the gear, not the player.
If you want to have a difference in power and overcome the odds, all you gotta do is choose to pvp naked or give yourself a weak build. You can than overcome it and brag about how good you are, and how meaningful your victory was. The game supports you making that choice. You're welcome for the information.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
LMAO I love this post!!!!
Aloha Mr Hand !
There was progression at launch, although it really kicked into gear after the Kurnark expansion (one year after launch).
For the record they introduced Innoruuk and Cazic Thule as raid targets between launch and the first expansion to keep people grinding gear until they launched new content.
Really have no idea what game you were playing if you dont think there were tiers of gear according to zone difficulty and progression.