I played FFXI for quite a while and the risk of dying horribly and loosing XP made people play up to a much higher level. There was also much less Asses in the game since a players reputation actually meant something because playing with quality people sometimes was necessary to defeat the monsters.
Those of you who played at the dawn of mmorpg's know that before the great influx of players, games were inhabited by passionate and dedicated people, free from gold farming, advertisements and spam.
No in-game maps. I actually had to memorize the lands to not get lost.
Death costed a good chunk of exp. You were forced to group up to exp at a good rate.
Long duration CC. It made PvP unpredictable and skill and timing mattered(even in PvE).
You couldn't button mash.
No global cooldown timer.
Open world PvP was the main focus of the game.
From what I remember, some of the dungeons were instanced, just other players outside your group could enter and see you in there.
I think Darkness Falls was the coolest thing about DAoC. I have been wanting something like that in every game I play.
I stopped playing the game around the release of Shrouded Isles, so not sure what whent on after that.
I hate the CC in the game though. Maybe fun for the dudes with the CC, but damn annoying for everyone else.
PvP wasn't really open world either. More restricted to certain areas. I don't recall ever seeing an enemy player in my homeland.
The game was fun for it's time(better than EQ imo) but I try not to look at anything with rose tinted glasses.
You don't know what an instance is. google it
Also there were PvP servers where you could PvP everywhere except the 3 cities.
Only people who were bad at PvP hated the CC.
LOL, ok guy, just keep believing that. Whatever, you stated the dungeons were "open world" when they were seperated from the world.
Pressing a button to completely incapacitate my target is the epitome of pvp skill... keep on believing that. IMO, guys that need an "I win" CC button are the ones who can't pvp properly.
No in-game maps. I actually had to memorize the lands to not get lost.
Death costed a good chunk of exp. You were forced to group up to exp at a good rate.
Long duration CC. It made PvP unpredictable and skill and timing mattered(even in PvE).
You couldn't button mash.
No global cooldown timer.
Open world PvP was the main focus of the game.
From what I remember, some of the dungeons were instanced, just other players outside your group could enter and see you in there.
I think Darkness Falls was the coolest thing about DAoC. I have been wanting something like that in every game I play.
I stopped playing the game around the release of Shrouded Isles, so not sure what whent on after that.
I hate the CC in the game though. Maybe fun for the dudes with the CC, but damn annoying for everyone else.
PvP wasn't really open world either. More restricted to certain areas. I don't recall ever seeing an enemy player in my homeland.
The game was fun for it's time(better than EQ imo) but I try not to look at anything with rose tinted glasses.
You don't know what an instance is. google it
Also there were PvP servers where you could PvP everywhere except the 3 cities.
Only people who were bad at PvP hated the CC.
LOL, ok guy, just keep believing that. Whatever, you stated the dungeons were "open world" when they were seperated from the world.
Pressing a button to completely incapacitate my target is the epitome of pvp skill... keep on believing that. IMO, guys that need an "I win" CC button are the ones who can't pvp properly.
Attacking the players in and around Wehnimer's Landing with GM-controlled NPC's, as part of an ongoing invasion event. Smack talk, particularly with the more egotistical corpses. :P
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
1. Guilds that exist for community gameplay, not for power-up perks.
2. Players who appreciate the reason for stressing #1.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Community. Period. The thing that seperates mmo's from all other video game genres: Positive, long term, group player interaction, in a persistent world.
Current MMO's have weeded it out for some reasons. Probably because the bean counters can't quantify it on a spreadsheet.
Community tools and community support. In the bright-eyed and naive effort to create one big happy lovefest on the server, developers have designed mechanics that actually work against community building and make it more difficult for player bonds to form in game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Slow paced combat. I like spells with 10 s cast time and I think ordinary fights when killing xp-mobs should last 2 min or more.
I think its much better to kill 10 mobs/hour than 100mobs/hour. I dont want action combat and there should be no need for twitch skills, fast reactions or being able to aim whith precision when playing MMORPG:s. Most companies focuse on action and fast paced combat today. I dont like that at all...
Most of the things people are asking for are still alive and kicking in certain MMOs,you have just choose to jump on the new and shiny only to realise that the new and shiny is actually lacking in any imagination.
I miss the city raids in the early days of SWG. There wasn't really much worth exploring for except maybe hunting for night sisters.
The early days of SWG were awesome. Going out in 20 man parties to hunt random stuff on Tattooine. It was actually kinda nice having to set up camps to heal your wounds and giving players a chance to socialize a little.
I also miss some of the actual challenging solo content.
It's a lot harder to make actual friends in games now days too. Especially with things like cross server LFD. Meet plenty of trolls though.
It's nice being able to run dungeons quicker, but LFD is a community killer. I think a server wide LFG channel is enough.
It's hard to narrow it down to 1 thing, but I would have to pick the endless journey. In EQ I never felt the need to rush to end game because there were always multiple dungeons available at every level and by the time I did reach max level they had alternate abilities allowing me to continue progressing my main character.
Originally posted by Murashu It's hard to narrow it down to 1 thing, but I would have to pick the endless journey. In EQ I never felt the need to rush to end game because there were always multiple dungeons available at every level and by the time I did reach max level they had alternate abilities allowing me to continue progressing my main character.
This is why i have played Vanguard since release and will carry on playing it even while playing GW2.Like EQ1 the game offers multiple dungeons at all levels and some are actually vast.On top of that you have a vast world that is fully open and explorable with vast oceans that are sailable and vast sky that can be crossed on the wing.
After playing five plus years i can say that i still have not done everything thing in the game,that just gives you the full scale of the game.
The journey being AT LEAST as important as the destination. AKA there are a lot of little destinations along the way whose whole is AT LEAST as great as the final destination.
No gps, having to figure out by myself, no glwoing "?" marks over npc, no arrows pointing where I 'need' to go, etc
Of course system had it's flaws cause it was way too static and, over time devs instead of doing more fun & complex quests inflated their number and made literraly hundread upon hundread simple ones.
Current system IS made quests and system BORING. Especially that it is usually coupled with easiness of open world content.
Even GW2 one while it is going in good direction - it STILL DOES have insane amount of hand-holding - events pop out on my map and mini-map showing where I should go to participate, game feed me with what EXACTLY need to be done in events, etc
Originally posted by Loktofeit Community tools and community support. In the bright-eyed and naive effoft to create one big happy lovefest on the server, developers have designed mechanics that actually work against community building and make it more difficult for player bonds to form in game.
Yeah, I'll go along with this sentiment. It seems the more developers tried to improve MMORPG gameplay, the more damage they did to the community.
These days people point to LFG and DF tools and hold them up as evidence of socialization, not realizing they are the result of a lack of community instead and provided as a solution to an inherent flaw in modern game design.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) Fear of dying. The Plane of Fear in EQ1 sure would have played a lot different if when you died you respawned outside the portal with all your gear, lost no experience, and just had to pay 5 platinum to repair your gear.
2) Endless character progression. For me, today, I often lose interest in a new MMO because I reach the end, do everything I can do on your character within a few months, then don't want to sit around for half a year for a new content patch before I have something new to do. EQ1 had epic quests, the AA system, a long leveling curve, and challenging raids that weren't beaten a week after an expansion came out. Some people call this a grind, I call it something to look forward to.
3) Large raids. I know a lot of people hate them. But to me, there's only so much you can do with 8-10 people, and 10 people doesn't feel "massive" at all.
4) Open world dungeons. Nothing really to explain here.
Comments
Suspense/Risk.
I played FFXI for quite a while and the risk of dying horribly and loosing XP made people play up to a much higher level. There was also much less Asses in the game since a players reputation actually meant something because playing with quality people sometimes was necessary to defeat the monsters.
The Players:
Those of you who played at the dawn of mmorpg's know that before the great influx of players, games were inhabited by passionate and dedicated people, free from gold farming, advertisements and spam.
LOL, ok guy, just keep believing that. Whatever, you stated the dungeons were "open world" when they were seperated from the world.
Pressing a button to completely incapacitate my target is the epitome of pvp skill... keep on believing that. IMO, guys that need an "I win" CC button are the ones who can't pvp properly.
you confuse loading screens with instances.
What RR did you reach in daoc?
my review of GW2
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
CHALLENGE.
I havent really played old school though.
And I hate each and every classless system I've tried so far. Much too little variance for an altoholic like me.
a character that wasn't defined by its equipment.
Any kind of player-driven environment, really. (I still mourn for UO)
1. Guilds that exist for community gameplay, not for power-up perks.
2. Players who appreciate the reason for stressing #1.
Community. Period. The thing that seperates mmo's from all other video game genres: Positive, long term, group player interaction, in a persistent world.
Current MMO's have weeded it out for some reasons. Probably because the bean counters can't quantify it on a spreadsheet.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Slow paced combat. I like spells with 10 s cast time and I think ordinary fights when killing xp-mobs should last 2 min or more.
I think its much better to kill 10 mobs/hour than 100mobs/hour. I dont want action combat and there should be no need for twitch skills, fast reactions or being able to aim whith precision when playing MMORPG:s. Most companies focuse on action and fast paced combat today. I dont like that at all...
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
I miss the city raids in the early days of SWG. There wasn't really much worth exploring for except maybe hunting for night sisters.
The early days of SWG were awesome. Going out in 20 man parties to hunt random stuff on Tattooine. It was actually kinda nice having to set up camps to heal your wounds and giving players a chance to socialize a little.
I also miss some of the actual challenging solo content.
It's a lot harder to make actual friends in games now days too. Especially with things like cross server LFD. Meet plenty of trolls though.
It's nice being able to run dungeons quicker, but LFD is a community killer. I think a server wide LFG channel is enough.
This is why i have played Vanguard since release and will carry on playing it even while playing GW2.Like EQ1 the game offers multiple dungeons at all levels and some are actually vast.On top of that you have a vast world that is fully open and explorable with vast oceans that are sailable and vast sky that can be crossed on the wing.
After playing five plus years i can say that i still have not done everything thing in the game,that just gives you the full scale of the game.
Single greatest thing?
The journey being AT LEAST as important as the destination. AKA there are a lot of little destinations along the way whose whole is AT LEAST as great as the final destination.
You have been playing the wrong MMOs then because both your concerns are still out their if you know where to look.
No hand-holding.
No gps, having to figure out by myself, no glwoing "?" marks over npc, no arrows pointing where I 'need' to go, etc
Of course system had it's flaws cause it was way too static and, over time devs instead of doing more fun & complex quests inflated their number and made literraly hundread upon hundread simple ones.
Current system IS made quests and system BORING. Especially that it is usually coupled with easiness of open world content.
Even GW2 one while it is going in good direction - it STILL DOES have insane amount of hand-holding - events pop out on my map and mini-map showing where I should go to participate, game feed me with what EXACTLY need to be done in events, etc
Yeah, I'll go along with this sentiment. It seems the more developers tried to improve MMORPG gameplay, the more damage they did to the community.
These days people point to LFG and DF tools and hold them up as evidence of socialization, not realizing they are the result of a lack of community instead and provided as a solution to an inherent flaw in modern game design.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Probably four things:
1) Fear of dying. The Plane of Fear in EQ1 sure would have played a lot different if when you died you respawned outside the portal with all your gear, lost no experience, and just had to pay 5 platinum to repair your gear.
2) Endless character progression. For me, today, I often lose interest in a new MMO because I reach the end, do everything I can do on your character within a few months, then don't want to sit around for half a year for a new content patch before I have something new to do. EQ1 had epic quests, the AA system, a long leveling curve, and challenging raids that weren't beaten a week after an expansion came out. Some people call this a grind, I call it something to look forward to.
3) Large raids. I know a lot of people hate them. But to me, there's only so much you can do with 8-10 people, and 10 people doesn't feel "massive" at all.
4) Open world dungeons. Nothing really to explain here.