Originally posted by Aerowyn check out my sig in the Hot Tpoics thread is a good Q & A with the lead devs about "endgame" and continued content
Saying the entire game is end-game isn't really saying anything at all. That's like telling WoW players, After you hit 85, you get to go back and do more quests! Yay! Quests forever!!!!
As opposed to "Yay! Gear grind forever!!!!!"?????
This is why I asked for suggestions on re-doing it. I don't like the eternal gear grind either. I do enjoy raiding however, with a structured group of players that takes tactics, planning, and coordination. This is what GW2 lacks atm, please read the OP before responding.
I don't see how. Are you seriously telling me that you expect to conquer all of the dungeon paths by facerolling ala Wotlk? Much less the explorable mode dungeons?
Does the amount of people involved change the fact that you will have to use tactics, planning and coordination in 5 man GW2 dungeons?
It sounds like you just want large groups of people. Because realistically, there is no difference otherwise.
You're discrediting some pretty hardcore content simply because of what it's called and/or how many people are participating. Honestly, I don't think you've played even the dungeon available in beta.
Originally posted by Aerowyn check out my sig in the Hot Tpoics thread is a good Q & A with the lead devs about "endgame" and continued content
Saying the entire game is end-game isn't really saying anything at all. That's like telling WoW players, After you hit 85, you get to go back and do more quests! Yay! Quests forever!!!!
As opposed to "Yay! Gear grind forever!!!!!"?????
This is why I asked for suggestions on re-doing it. I don't like the eternal gear grind either. I do enjoy raiding however, with a structured group of players that takes tactics, planning, and coordination. This is what GW2 lacks atm, please read the OP before responding.
I don't think it's possible to improve raiding because:
If you increase the size of a raid too much, it becomes a mess and is very annoying to even attempt to coordinate unless everything in the instance is relatively easy (think WoW's city raids before the guards got overbuffed).
On the flipside, if you shrink them down too much, you might as well just call them dungeons. Hell, I'd argue that raiding is nothing more than an overglorified dungeon, in which the elite compete against the other elite for the championship cup, the elite wannabes kiss their feet and follow in their shadow, all the while being demeaning and condescending to the less serious raiders and more casual community below them in general.
Heres a start out idea. Scaling raids. You have 13 people out of a 15 person raid show up that night, So now the raid is a 13 person raid. Or similarly, 24 people show up for a 20man raid. Now the raid is tuned to 24 people. Would it be easy? Probably not. Would you be able to put as many mechanics in the raid as they have now? Maybe not. But it's just an idea, the same way dynamic events started.
Originally posted by Jimmydean Originally posted by Size-TwelveOk this is just how I plan to play for one example of "endgame":Level to 80Finish personal StoryGo back to any interesting zones I missed looking for new DE'sStart 100% map completion huntPlay WvWLearn siege weapons, tactics, have funTry to help my server become competitiveJoin Chef's guild and learn to cookBecome WvW commanderStart structured PvPRun explorable dungeons to help guild farm for gearAttain 100% map completionThat will take me FOREVER. I probably won't get through that list until many expansions from now, and there will be even more to do at that point. All the "endgame" I need is already in game.
I'm happy for your goals. It's unfortunate you are unable to read however, as your post has nothing to do with responding to the OP, which is what that meant when you clicked on Reply.
My point is that endgame doesn't NEED to be "redone". If you don't like the endgame already in place, you've got other options.
Originally posted by Aerowyn check out my sig in the Hot Tpoics thread is a good Q & A with the lead devs about "endgame" and continued content
Saying the entire game is end-game isn't really saying anything at all. That's like telling WoW players, After you hit 85, you get to go back and do more quests! Yay! Quests forever!!!!
As opposed to "Yay! Gear grind forever!!!!!"?????
This is why I asked for suggestions on re-doing it. I don't like the eternal gear grind either. I do enjoy raiding however, with a structured group of players that takes tactics, planning, and coordination. This is what GW2 lacks atm, please read the OP before responding.
Originally posted by Aerowyn check out my sig in the Hot Tpoics thread is a good Q & A with the lead devs about "endgame" and continued content
Saying the entire game is end-game isn't really saying anything at all. That's like telling WoW players, After you hit 85, you get to go back and do more quests! Yay! Quests forever!!!!
As opposed to "Yay! Gear grind forever!!!!!"?????
This is why I asked for suggestions on re-doing it. I don't like the eternal gear grind either. I do enjoy raiding however, with a structured group of players that takes tactics, planning, and coordination. This is what GW2 lacks atm, please read the OP before responding.
I wasn't responding to the OP. Which is why I hit the "quote" button rather than "reply". I was responding directly to your quote.
In response to your concern about raiding, I would say that the cool thing about GW2 is that you can do that throughout the entire game. There is nothing stopping you from getting together with a structured group of players and using tactics, planning and coordination to accomplish a goal. Which is exactly what raiding is.
Besides, the dungeons and Orr require the very things you say you want. So where's your problem?
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
This is why I asked for suggestions on re-doing it. I don't like the eternal gear grind either. I do enjoy raiding however, with a structured group of players that takes tactics, planning, and coordination. This is what GW2 lacks atm, please read the OP before responding.
I understand where you're coming from. The tight knit groups of 20 or so players that need to master coordination can be fun.
In GW2, I'll be getting my fix in the 5 man dungeons for this. When I played WoW, I actually preferred smaller raids anyway (even though I would always do 25 mans for loot). Doing difficult achievements with friends in these explorable mode dungeons sounds like fun to me.
There is also a level 80 zone dedicated to massive dynamic event chains (I think 3 zones are like this from 75+), but that's not really what you're after. You want a raid situation according to what you said here and unfortunately for you, they will not have this at release (and I've seen no plans for them post release).
It's not an "organized" raid game at the moment and will likely never be. So if that is a make or break item on your list, then this game won't cut it for you. The closest thing you'll get to it is likely in Orr, but we haven't seen what it's like there yet, so we can't be sure if it will satisfy you.
OP there really is no reason to be an Ass to everyone. I read your OP a number of times and I still have no idea what the hell you want. We are telling you what GW2 has as an end game. Just because its not the answers you want to hear, doesn't make them any less valid.
Point is, GW2 does not have raids and will not have raids. If you can't accept that fact find a different game. GW2 tactics for end game is just continue doing what you want to do. If you get bored, move onto another aspect of the game. And the hardcore raiders are a minority. GW2 isn't catering to that minority, but there are plenty of games out there that do.
If you have a specific question then your going to need to ask it. The "questions" in the OP are either rhetorical or just to vague for any of us to know. As I said, I still have no idea what you want to know and I read the op 5 times now.
Originally posted by bookworm438 OP there really is no reason to be an Ass to everyone. I read your OP a number of times and I still have no idea what the hell you want. We are telling you what GW2 has as an end game. Just because its not the answers you want to hear, doesn't make them any less valid.
Point is, GW2 does not have raids and will not have raids. If you can't accept that fact find a different game. GW2 tactics for end game is just continue doing what you want to do. If you get bored, move onto another aspect of the game. And the hardcore raiders are a minority. GW2 isn't catering to that minority, but there are plenty of games out there that do.
If you have a specific question then your going to need to ask it. The "questions" in the OP are either rhetorical or just to vague for any of us to know. As I said, I still have no idea what you want to know and I read the op 5 times now.
Quote: Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone.
Quote: Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone.
[mod edit]
the issue is most people don't see any issues with current endgame so it's hard to see a point in throwing around ideas to "redo" endgame.. also anet said they have no plans for standard raiding dungeons but you get plenty of open world raiding bosses that require large teams and coordination. But you can discuss all you like about what you wish endgame was I'm just trying to show you were people are coming from with their replys
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Personally, I don't take you or your question seriously. You seem to want ideas on how to smash a square peg into a round hole and seeing as everyone knows this can't be done, you're getting irritated with their non-answers.
My advice is to take the fact that there are so few suggestions as a hint.
And read my post on page 3. You make terrible assumptions about the game, I don't see why people should offer you anything.
Originally posted by bookworm438 OP there really is no reason to be an Ass to everyone. I read your OP a number of times and I still have no idea what the hell you want. We are telling you what GW2 has as an end game. Just because its not the answers you want to hear, doesn't make them any less valid.
Point is, GW2 does not have raids and will not have raids. If you can't accept that fact find a different game. GW2 tactics for end game is just continue doing what you want to do. If you get bored, move onto another aspect of the game. And the hardcore raiders are a minority. GW2 isn't catering to that minority, but there are plenty of games out there that do.
If you have a specific question then your going to need to ask it. The "questions" in the OP are either rhetorical or just to vague for any of us to know. As I said, I still have no idea what you want to know and I read the op 5 times now.
Quote: Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone.
[mod edit]
Why? Those of us who will be playing the game don't think endgame needs to be redone. If you require endgame that GW2 doesn't have, I suggest you look elsewhere and please stop trying to get it changed to suit your "needs".
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
So GW2 re-did half of the MMORPG. They changed the level experience from quest grinding, to dynamic event grinding. But how much time did we really spend leveling? How much fun did you have during the leveling process of most games?
Imagine this. Some people say raiders' are a small population of the playerbase. I say otherwise. Rather than getting rid of "endgame", I say the next truly successful MMORPG will re-do endgame. And I don't mean LFR either, that was more like groups in school you never wanted to be a part of but was forced to be.
So any input? Maybe GW2 could be the first to do it. People will get bored of DEs eventually, then what? I won't claim to have the answers. A lot of people are tired of the current raid system, that doesn't mean they hate raids.
Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone.
I see the DE versus quest grinding argument a moot point. Just as people got annoyed with questing, people will get annoyed with dynamic events. Do some people like questing over DEs, yes. Do others like DEs over questing, yes. Can DEs be added/modified over time, yes. Can quests be added/modified over time, yes.
Now, what I do find appealing about DEs today is the following - DEs feel less stagnant than quests. DEs have the ability to scale, change, and morph much easier than quests. Note I say easier, not that quests can't do these things, but it is more complicated and less frequently done.
DEs also seem to fit more with the WvWvW PvP concept closer than questing. WvWvW will be much like DAoC, seiging a point, some epic battles here, some ground gained, while other ground lost, etc etc. Very much like an unpredictable, unstructured dynamic event.
DAoC survived, and has continued to survive with a strong PvP end-game. I hope Anet continues to develop new end-game content for the break from PvP, but I hope end-game PvP is what keeps people signing in. Especially something like Darkness Falls would do really well here, a high level PvE dungeon that only 1 server can access based upon their success in WvWvW PvP (which will reset each time the 3 server match-up resets...
Quote: Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone.
[mod edit]
the issue is most people don't see any issues with current endgame so it's hard to see a point in throwing around ideas to "redo" endgame.. also anet said they have no plans for standard raiding dungeons but you get plenty of open world raiding bosses that require large teams and coordination. But you can discuss all you like about what you wish endgame was I'm just trying to show you were people are coming from with their replys
Ok, so simply pass on by. I never said anywhere in my post you have to respond. Generally it is common courtesy to remain on topic however if you do reply.
I don't even know why I'm making the effort to type this, but here it goes.
ArenaNet already redid endgame from the standards. We can't know how else it can be modified as none of us are there yet. If you are referring to how they can redo raids, them ask that. Endgame != raids, so most of is are assuming you mean actual endgame, which we commented on.
I honestly think this pointless topic should be locked considering how rude the OP is being to those of us trying to answer his "question".
Ok, so simply pass on by. I never said anywhere in my post you have to respond. Generally it is common courtesy to remain on topic however if you do reply.
"People will get bored of DEs eventually, then what?"
that's a quote from your OP which many people have been answering so don't see how it was really off topic.. i'd perhaps edit your OP
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Ok, so simply pass on by. I never said anywhere in my post you have to respond. Generally it is common courtesy to remain on topic however if you do reply.
"People will get bored of DEs eventually, then what?"
that's a quote from your OP which many people have been answering so don't see how it was really off topic.. i'd perhaps edit your OP
[mod edit]
Wait what? I and many people are answering what people will do when they get bored of DEs... I know english isn't my first language but that was rhetorical?
"ArenaNet already redid endgame from the standards."
the only people who believe this are the people who've never played an mmo outside of wow
sorry,they didnt redo end game.they just didnt follow the raiding end game model that world of warcraft has did,but whatever.im just waiting for all the people who are claiming guild wars 2 is going to cure cancer and be the 2nd coming of christ to get disapointed and leave so they'll shut up
Ok, so simply pass on by. I never said anywhere in my post you have to respond. Generally it is common courtesy to remain on topic however if you do reply.
"People will get bored of DEs eventually, then what?"
that's a quote from your OP which many people have been answering so don't see how it was really off topic.. i'd perhaps edit your OP
[mod edit]
Wait what? I and many people are answering what people will do when they get bored of DEs... I know english isn't my first language but that was rhetorical?
Yes, in English "rhetorical" means a question that is not intended to be actually answered, but more of a question used as a statement.
Well you seem to think guild wars 2 doesn't have "raids". Maybe this is similar to what you are used to. I've posted this a couple times and seems to me you haven't seen it.
It's better that people realise that there is no endgame. You'll level to 80 and then do some dungeons, some WvW until you get bored, try out to 100% some maps and it's over. Then you roll alts or wait until the next expansion. The "endgame" will last less than a month.
Well you seem to think guild wars 2 doesn't have "raids". Maybe this is similar to what you are used to. I've posted this a couple times and seems to me you haven't seen it.
It just looks like a boss from a single player game, there is no actual coordination or strategy.
We only know theoretically what GW2 has to offer someone who is 80 by the systems we know are in place. We have no idea what Orr or the level 80, lower for that matter, dungeons are like.
Some people may well get tired of DEs but I highly doubt I will. The reason why I think PvE in GW2 is so much better than WoW is becuse it's fun. Would I go back and do level 20 quests at 85 in WoW if it had the same leveling system? No, because I think it's static and boring. DEs on the other hand are engaging and I can see myself going to low level content at 80. If anything there should be more contested points by then.
Originally posted by otinanai123 It's better that people realise that there is no endgame. You'll level to 80 and then do some dungeons, some WvW until you get bored, try out to 100% some maps and it's over. Then you roll alts or wait until the next expansion. The "endgame" will last less than a month.
I hope you realize it will take more than a month for most people to get even a single Legendary weapon, and there are people who are surely going to strive for more than one. Now, you personally may not care about going for one at all....but you need to acknowledge that "you" =/= "people", "you"="just one single person".
Comments
I don't see how. Are you seriously telling me that you expect to conquer all of the dungeon paths by facerolling ala Wotlk? Much less the explorable mode dungeons?
Does the amount of people involved change the fact that you will have to use tactics, planning and coordination in 5 man GW2 dungeons?
It sounds like you just want large groups of people. Because realistically, there is no difference otherwise.
You're discrediting some pretty hardcore content simply because of what it's called and/or how many people are participating. Honestly, I don't think you've played even the dungeon available in beta.
Heres a start out idea. Scaling raids. You have 13 people out of a 15 person raid show up that night, So now the raid is a 13 person raid. Or similarly, 24 people show up for a 20man raid. Now the raid is tuned to 24 people. Would it be easy? Probably not. Would you be able to put as many mechanics in the raid as they have now? Maybe not. But it's just an idea, the same way dynamic events started.
My point is that endgame doesn't NEED to be "redone". If you don't like the endgame already in place, you've got other options.
Y u no read my post on page 2?!? Rofl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-s9-rsBiU&feature=player_detailpage#t=591s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDXVi5aOcOY&feature=player_detailpage#t=51s
I wasn't responding to the OP. Which is why I hit the "quote" button rather than "reply". I was responding directly to your quote.
In response to your concern about raiding, I would say that the cool thing about GW2 is that you can do that throughout the entire game. There is nothing stopping you from getting together with a structured group of players and using tactics, planning and coordination to accomplish a goal. Which is exactly what raiding is.
Besides, the dungeons and Orr require the very things you say you want. So where's your problem?
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
No argument, that's exactly what they are. They're dungeons with more people and sometimes a more pivotal storyline.
I understand where you're coming from. The tight knit groups of 20 or so players that need to master coordination can be fun.
In GW2, I'll be getting my fix in the 5 man dungeons for this. When I played WoW, I actually preferred smaller raids anyway (even though I would always do 25 mans for loot). Doing difficult achievements with friends in these explorable mode dungeons sounds like fun to me.
There is also a level 80 zone dedicated to massive dynamic event chains (I think 3 zones are like this from 75+), but that's not really what you're after. You want a raid situation according to what you said here and unfortunately for you, they will not have this at release (and I've seen no plans for them post release).
It's not an "organized" raid game at the moment and will likely never be. So if that is a make or break item on your list, then this game won't cut it for you. The closest thing you'll get to it is likely in Orr, but we haven't seen what it's like there yet, so we can't be sure if it will satisfy you.
Point is, GW2 does not have raids and will not have raids. If you can't accept that fact find a different game. GW2 tactics for end game is just continue doing what you want to do. If you get bored, move onto another aspect of the game. And the hardcore raiders are a minority. GW2 isn't catering to that minority, but there are plenty of games out there that do.
If you have a specific question then your going to need to ask it. The "questions" in the OP are either rhetorical or just to vague for any of us to know. As I said, I still have no idea what you want to know and I read the op 5 times now.
Quote: Maybe throw around some ideas of how end-game could be redone.
[mod edit]
the issue is most people don't see any issues with current endgame so it's hard to see a point in throwing around ideas to "redo" endgame.. also anet said they have no plans for standard raiding dungeons but you get plenty of open world raiding bosses that require large teams and coordination. But you can discuss all you like about what you wish endgame was I'm just trying to show you were people are coming from with their replys
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Personally, I don't take you or your question seriously. You seem to want ideas on how to smash a square peg into a round hole and seeing as everyone knows this can't be done, you're getting irritated with their non-answers.
My advice is to take the fact that there are so few suggestions as a hint.
And read my post on page 3. You make terrible assumptions about the game, I don't see why people should offer you anything.
Why? Those of us who will be playing the game don't think endgame needs to be redone. If you require endgame that GW2 doesn't have, I suggest you look elsewhere and please stop trying to get it changed to suit your "needs".
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
I see the DE versus quest grinding argument a moot point. Just as people got annoyed with questing, people will get annoyed with dynamic events. Do some people like questing over DEs, yes. Do others like DEs over questing, yes. Can DEs be added/modified over time, yes. Can quests be added/modified over time, yes.
Now, what I do find appealing about DEs today is the following - DEs feel less stagnant than quests. DEs have the ability to scale, change, and morph much easier than quests. Note I say easier, not that quests can't do these things, but it is more complicated and less frequently done.
DEs also seem to fit more with the WvWvW PvP concept closer than questing. WvWvW will be much like DAoC, seiging a point, some epic battles here, some ground gained, while other ground lost, etc etc. Very much like an unpredictable, unstructured dynamic event.
DAoC survived, and has continued to survive with a strong PvP end-game. I hope Anet continues to develop new end-game content for the break from PvP, but I hope end-game PvP is what keeps people signing in. Especially something like Darkness Falls would do really well here, a high level PvE dungeon that only 1 server can access based upon their success in WvWvW PvP (which will reset each time the 3 server match-up resets...
Ok, so simply pass on by. I never said anywhere in my post you have to respond. Generally it is common courtesy to remain on topic however if you do reply.
ArenaNet already redid endgame from the standards. We can't know how else it can be modified as none of us are there yet. If you are referring to how they can redo raids, them ask that. Endgame != raids, so most of is are assuming you mean actual endgame, which we commented on.
I honestly think this pointless topic should be locked considering how rude the OP is being to those of us trying to answer his "question".
"People will get bored of DEs eventually, then what?"
that's a quote from your OP which many people have been answering so don't see how it was really off topic.. i'd perhaps edit your OP
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Wait what? I and many people are answering what people will do when they get bored of DEs... I know english isn't my first language but that was rhetorical?
"ArenaNet already redid endgame from the standards."
the only people who believe this are the people who've never played an mmo outside of wow
sorry,they didnt redo end game.they just didnt follow the raiding end game model that world of warcraft has did,but whatever.im just waiting for all the people who are claiming guild wars 2 is going to cure cancer and be the 2nd coming of christ to get disapointed and leave so they'll shut up
Yes, in English "rhetorical" means a question that is not intended to be actually answered, but more of a question used as a statement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B-s9-rsBiU&feature=player_detailpage#t=595s
Well you seem to think guild wars 2 doesn't have "raids". Maybe this is similar to what you are used to. I've posted this a couple times and seems to me you haven't seen it.
my review of GW2
It just looks like a boss from a single player game, there is no actual coordination or strategy.
Some people may well get tired of DEs but I highly doubt I will. The reason why I think PvE in GW2 is so much better than WoW is becuse it's fun. Would I go back and do level 20 quests at 85 in WoW if it had the same leveling system? No, because I think it's static and boring. DEs on the other hand are engaging and I can see myself going to low level content at 80. If anything there should be more contested points by then.
I hope you realize it will take more than a month for most people to get even a single Legendary weapon, and there are people who are surely going to strive for more than one. Now, you personally may not care about going for one at all....but you need to acknowledge that "you" =/= "people", "you"="just one single person".