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What TSW (and every MMO) needs.
Thubub
Member UncommonPosts: 62
So its several weeks into the launch of TSW. I didn't follow it, but picked it up and had fun for a while. Then I found myself not logging in and presto, the game is over for me. It has some nice inovations, but the lack of content and inability to do content are what caused me to lose interest. So here is what TSW should have done (and any new MMO releasing should do.)
1. LFG tool!
You can't do content if you are sitting in a city or TSW's transport zone spamming the LFG channel looking for a group. The LFG tool in WoW allows you to play the game AND sit in your que waiting for an instance. So you get to actually do things. Waiting for 45 minutes to get a group so you can explore some content is boring and a waste of my time. EVERY MMO should release with a LFG tool if it is going to have instanced dungeons. It is stupid at this point not to. So for all you companies out there designing the next WoW-killer, put in a LFG tool. You are way behind the times if you don't have it in.
2. More instanced dungeons!
Ok, its nice to take content you already created and bump up the stats on mobs for an "elite" dungeon. Great, you just doubled your content. But 7 or 8 total instanced dungeons is not "massive" content. You should be starting with somewhere in the neighborhood of 30ish. Or you could start with 7-8, then release in the first month a massive update with 7 new instanced dungeons to keep some buzz going. Do that every couple of weeks until you get to the 30ish mark. Make those 30 also elites and you have 60+ dungeons as content.
3. You need ACTUAL end game content!
So copying your previous dungeons and changing the name to "nightmare" is really cheap. It doesn't lend itself to any storyline and leaves the player wanting. We did all this content before, and now we do it again for our gear? You need to have actual end game instances that aren't a copy and paste of what we did previously. This gives us story, content, and "leet" gears. You also need to release with at least one raid. EVERYONE has a raid in thier MMO (or a dozen raids), you should have one too.
4. Chat and the Auction House need to be up and running!
Ok, so this is like your going to a nice restaurant. You sit down and are ready for a fantastic meal. You notice as your food comes out that you don't have silverware and you only have water to drink. The waitress tells you "sorry, but the dishwasher and soda fountain are broken so we don't have any silverware or soda right now. Hopefullly it will be fixed soon. Enjoy your meal!" That is what it is like to not have a fully functioning chat and auction house system in an MMO.
Quest bugs, instance bugs and the like everyone expects from a launch. Hell, WoW still has a few of those. But releasing with major chat issues and no AH is an amateur move (then releasing a broken, bugged AH). It's not a total killer, but its part of the total package that will lead customers to jump ship earlier rather than later. Seriously on the AH, there is a niche group of players that mostly do AH. If your AH is terribad, they will be out the door.
5. PvP???
Ok, I am a PvPer. So I was gonna leave when GW2 launched anyway. But I remember another game that launched with PvP as a side note. Its PvP was wildly fun and successful. That game was LotRO. So it is possible to do.
Sure, you wan't players to flip keeps and such, but you also want to have some value in defending those. Rewarding only the flip caused your PvP to become just a strange "run in a circle PvE fest" with a little PvP on the side when you actually ran in to someone. Also the symetrical persistant zone was very gimmaky. A more realistic zone with more actual quests and content is much more fun for the player. Think of it as a PvE zone where PvP is encouraged.
People forget that when WoW launched it had tons of content. Multiple instances per level zone, huge zones for leveling, and lots of side content that added flavor to the game. I have been playing WoW off and on since vanilla and I still haven't done all of the content in that game. I picked up two new MMOs this year (TSW and SW:TOR) and stopped playing both early (I generally play a good game for a year or more.) So, for all you would be MMOs out there. It's the content stupid.
Comments
only disagree with 1.
LFG tool killing social hubs & social aspect in mmorpg
When LFG, i try via lfg chat if can't get inv.(too many dps around) I starting main own team , it is fast way
Or simple join some active guild(cabal)
That and points 4 and 5.
PvP for most it's that important and why there's so few PvP lead MMOs. Personally I enjoy PvP, but wouldn't miss it, and the resulting bad effects (qq'ing and poor PvE balance).
A limited AH I'd agree with, but TSW has lost a lot of the trading social aspect since adding the AH. Full blown AH's typically don't do a game any good.
To add, instances dungeons are nice, but more open world ones would be great. Something that been lost sine WoW.
For the record end game does not mean dungeons. If one wants to play a WoW clones, please just go play WoW and stop trying to insist every game must follow its pattern. Kind of no wonder there's so many dull MMOs.
I don't think spamming or reading spam in LFG counts as being social or enhancing the social aspect of the game.
Also, for the record, if dungeons and raids aren't a part of endgame content, what is? For a PvE focused game that is what you have for endgame. Just because you want endgame content isn't a "WoW" thing. It's an "MMO" thing. If you create a PvE model MMO, then what is your endgame content without endgame dungeons/raids? TSW is a themepark MMO. The TSW themepark is just very short on content and has next to no replayability. I wasn't insisting it be a WoW clone. But I was commenting on its shortcomings that mirror some of the same issues that SW:TOR faced. It's disappointing to me to find two games this year that showed so much promise, but had so little actual content in the game.
You may not think it is, but it does add social aspects. As at least there's chat "traffic", and also unlike a lfg system it's not isolating and it does leave more of a community feeling.
Content in TSW is not lacking unless you simply start gear grinding, after getting QL10 gear. One could continue making/refining builds, head to the NM areas with gulildies to do some farming, helping others, and generally fill time between the monthly "end game" patches. All of which is how old school mmos played. Dungeons/raids can be part of an end game, but it's only really since WoW that's all it's become. They also used to be more open world, so again adding to the community, instead of the instastanced isolation where hardly a word is spoken. While there's certainly that aspect to TSW, the devs have made it quite clear the end game is story progression, and the evolution of the world. It also has replayabily, if one doesn't just focus on a rush to repeat NM dungeons.
Every point you highlighted would just make it a WoW clone. MMO's are supposed to be a virtual setting, not some lobby service with everything at hand.
I was one of those "no instance' advocates back in the day, but I do see the value of it such as for tailored content.
And I like to think that no LFG tool as well as no Central Auction House, ala old school EQ did , for me, make the world seem more alive and bustling. East Commons Tunnel anyone?
But I have to concede that times are different.
Times as in the date, and times as in how much time an average player puts in. And a LFG/dungeonfinder/AH all lend to "getting" to the meat of content faster.
That said,..
PvP is definitely not a must for an MMO, imho. It's not a coincidence it is usually a sad afterThought in recent games.
Perhaps it was never just not done 'right'.
What I'd say a MUST for an MMO is:
Tools and Content that promotes social interaction. MMO's are on this slope to turning into cold single player games, if they aren't already.
Kill 10 rats. Easy. Make a dungeon with a big boss. Check. Make awesome graphics. we can do that.
Movie quality cinematics. We have that formula.
But create a dynamic tie between real players, Not stats and skills, that's what I would give respect to.
To log in looking forward to seeing and cooperating in what players have done and changed, not what some pre-scripted event that will simply reset, needs to be unlocked.
That should be what a MMO is all about, imho.
I agree with LFG tool , its a must nowadays, but I must say not everyone likes raiding or grouping . A MMO does not mean you have to raid , so there are other things to concentrate on other than adding more dungeons.
ALso if you are a PvPer why are you concerned about the raiding aspect ? Not a flame just curious.
Personally for me a new MMO should concentrate on firstly getting the dam game to run correctly. If you cant play due to lag, bugs etc , theres no point in logging in.
I am patiently waiting for the hope of playing the game using SLI . The game just cooks my 1st gfx card at the mo.
"Ok, I am a PvPer. So I was gonna leave when GW2 launched anyway. But I remember another game that launched with PvP as a side note. Its PvP was wildly fun and successful. That game was LotRO. So it is possible to do."
Lotro has fun PvP? to each his own I guess
Exactly right!
As a minor addition, LFG tool for browsing people looking for group on same server isn't a bad idea, imo.
Yeah I did a double take on that one too.....I'm not sure how PVP was supposed to be in TSW.....ALl the reports I read leading up to the game made it sound like PVP was extremely important with the 3 factions and all......The I try it in the very end of beta and it feels like an afterthought....Its almost like they weren't sure what the exact focus of the game should be.....As a result, we got mediocre story driven PVE with terrible PVP.....Neither one is good enough to keep players interested long term.
I'm going to guess that the OP neither played to end game in TSW, nor played WoW at launch.
WoW didn't have a LFG tool until the second expansion, and people literally spammed the trade channels for hours every day, every play session to get dungeon groups together. This was actually a social tool to meet people on your server to develop relationships and community spirit. It fostered faction pride and friendly PvP competition, along with a sense of proactive community defense on the forums against jerks. When people say they miss vanilla WoW, this sense of community and teamwork is part of the nostalgia.
I'm a TSW fanboi so have a biased opinion. But imo, only the speedy grinders, those who can play 15 hours a day and those who skipped lots of content talk about TSW's missing endgame. The folks I know currently working on that content describe it as similar to the hardest raids in any MMO ever, requiring teamwork, coordination, deep knowledge of the game's systems and the ability wheel.
I don't know why people still repeat this tired old falacy over and over. A LFG tool is a requirement for modern MMOs....period.
By the time the SWTOR developers got off their "community killing" high horse and finally implemented it, it was too late...game dead.
I have heard all the pro and con arguments a thousand times. What it boils down to, after all is said and done is that a LFG tool allows you to carry on doing whatever you want to do while in the background it does the work of virtually spamming LFG until you get one. It is a hell of a lot more efficient than any other way of doing it.
It has nothing to do with joining or not joining a cabal and ironically despite the standard knock against it by its detractors, it actually encourages being more sociable by getting you to group with people you normally wouldn't group with....meeting new players, you know?
A lot of this anti-LFG tool stuff--the less accountability because you're not even from that server--doesn't even apply in TSW due to the single server technology--servers matter in Fusang and nowhere else. There are even multi-dimentional guilds.
So yeah, TSW is missing a LFG tool big time. I'd rather be questing while waiting for my group to form-up than standing in Agartha spamming the chat channels.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
At least with a sub game they know that people won't tolerate bullshit and leave. With anet we have no recourse but to buy our own lube so our assholes don't get too stretched out from getting bent over a table at Anets will. - Hrimnir
You used the words "terribad" and "AH".
I agree with better pvp and working chat, other than that....nothing. It's not an Auction House, this isn't WoW.
Waiting on: The Repopulation
I agree with most fo what you said. 1 is the only thing i dont need in my mmo.
The only thing I need in any mmo I play is content Content CONTENT. I would Like to play 1 MMo for months if not years like the older generation of MMos I use to play. MMos now a days you get content for a month. Then you play the same dailies or play the same instances over and over . Till new a small content update that is only enouph content for a weekend worth of play.
I just want MMos to have months or years worth of game play like the old gen MMos had then I would be happy.
I have been doing dungeons lately, normal mode, and find them highly entertaining.
Although sometimes you get a PUG that wants to speed run through and you miss half of the lore and whatnot.
What I love about the dungeons is that you gotta watch your step constantly. Tons of bad things to step on, Gates to knock over like in Egypt. Luring bosses around in Inferno.
Most dungeons in the past were tank and spank, in my experience, though Lotro has some nice things, not nearly as much environment watching as TSW though.
I yes,..I'd agree that well thought out "dungeons" are a staple to MMO's. Really, in this trend ,..it's the only way they can say it is not a single player game
cheers
Wrong. If your game is a themepark vertical progression gear grind the only true form of balance can be aquired when all persons have equal opportunites to gear up. As it stands TSW gearing up hits a wall once you want to move into NM dungeons because no one will take you unless your already geared. If you think not having a LFG tool is a good thing, go play the game without a guild or as a DPS trying to pug, or go stand around Agartha and watch the never endless scrolling of people shouting LFG for hours on end. The same thing killed SWTOR IMO.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Not to mention the majority of people saying MMO;s dont need a LFG finder are the ones who are in a guild/cabal and/or a Tank/Healer.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Yup, I think that LFG tool would be great and it doesn't harm community. Actually I honestly don't like lingering in Agartha spamming LFG and instead of that I'd rather do some questing until I can join some group. Our guild is a very small one, more like a bunch of friends who are mostly inactive during summertime. LFG tool would definitely make my already great time in TSW even more better.
Hey mate just going to correct or just comment a few things
1) LFG option, i have the addon and i really dont like it since everything is random and just luck if some1 picks you
2+3) ure talking about 7-8 doungens are not enough and u want raids, on the otherside u say u want to play GW2 in point 5 which ALSO ONLY HAVE 8 DOUNGENS and NO RAIDs+ REPEATPLE content
4) chat+auction house is working fine since 1.1.1 (yes at release it had huge basic problems)
5) yes gw2 pvp is better but offers kind of same content
Tools that make finding others to group with easier = good
Tools that 'auto-group' players = bad
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
