While some detractors attempt to use this fact as a criticism of something Guild Wars 2 is lacking, the truth is that it’s actually one of the game’s strengths.
Let’s start by dispelling the myth of raiding as the ultimate in PvE endgame content. I enjoyed raiding in other MMOs for a number of years, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s designed to force players to spend their time on repetitive, scripted tasks purely for the sake of advancing to the next tier of repetitive, scripted tasks. Because of their static nature, and because they rely on the holy trinity of dedicated tanks, healers and damage dealers, raid boss encounters are like a puzzle, but it’s a puzzle you only need to solve once. Where does the tank stand? How many healers do you need? Can the DPS stay out of fire? Once you solve the puzzle, or have it solved for you by reading a kill strategy step by step, it’s really little challenge to repeat it over and over again.
And you WILL need to repeat it over and over again. Subscription MMOs need to keep you coming back to do the same thing week after week, long after the novelty has worn off, and the only way to incentivize the experience is to gate the rate at which everyone acquires gear. That’s why gear is randomized when it drops and why not everyone who participated gets a reward. That’s why content has weekly lockouts, preventing you from running it over and over again as much as you’d like. Similar to a Las Vegas slot machine, raiding is designed to give you a gambler’s high every so often so you’ll keep chasing that high night after night. The time you sink into raiding can really start to add up for adults with college courses, full-time jobs and families. Having to put your social life on hold, or to sacrifice time spent on other hobbies or with friends and family just to chase pixels with better stats, shouldn’t be considered the ultimate endgame experience.
Thankfully, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have raiding. What it does have are other forms of large-scale, cooperative content that are far more dynamic, and far less monopolizing of your time, than raiding. The best part about all of this content is that you can participate and compete in every bit of it on a level playing field, without the barrier to entry of gear grinds, regardless of how much time you have to play.
When I finally started raiding about two years into LOTRO I really liked it at first because of the puzzle solving aspects of it. After about three months it sucked because I had it down and it was just repeat after repeat after repeat.... I'd have stopped but I was trapped because I was an officer, I was one of the two tanks needed for the big raids, etc. Plus the raids hard started the gear-dependency cycle.
Prior to the RoI expansion and greater focus on RAID, you could get the best armor in the game without doing a single raid. You just earned tokens by doing three-mans and a few six-mans. Boom, you've got a full set of Annuminas armor in about two weeks...
But then it became a grind and took six months to get half-way through the next set. Whcih then was superceeded by the next set... And when I got four pieces in... I logged out and pretty much stopped playing... I just couldn't stay on the pointless hamster wheel of the 'end game.'
I was happy to read this article. I raided in WoW for a while and really don't want to do that again. I'm glad there is an alternative.
I've been playing TSW and having fun leveling, but if the "end-game" is about raiding and gear grind, then I won't be there much longer. Hopefully Funcom will add some variety as TSW is still a new launch and maybe the devs have some innovation in the pipeline.
I'm glad to have GW2 coming up soon with a raiding-free game!
I love you for posting this article. Now I don't feel so old anymore since I'm well within the age of the average lol..and being just an average means that there are plenty of gamers much older than me so I still have a lot to look forward to lol.
As someone who has a five day, 7.5 hr/day job, GW2 was really a nice balance for any free time I had, that article really summed up how I felt as well.
Absolutely agree. And as one of the people in that group I really appreciate GW2's approach. I was a hardcore player when I was younger but there is a time when you get older that your perspective changes and you need to balance your gaming with your career and family.
Its sad to see so much angst between hardcores and casuals sometimes... what they don't seem to realize is that most of us were them before we grew up, got jobs, and priorities changed. A hardcore is just a casual that doesn't have RL obligations yet. Can't wait till they do and they can listen to the same shit that younger generations put us through
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
I am also now in this group. My schedule needs to remain flexible and not having to schedule raid times every week etc definatly helps. That is for the younger crowd like I used to be where you have all the free time in the world. Family and work really limit your play times and need to AFK a lot more than I used to.
Big part of the reason why I love the game, for sure.
Back in the old days (EQ) I was young and had very little responsibilities, so devoting my life to the game worked. Now I have a career where I spend 10 or more hours each day at the office and have other responsibilities outside of work on top of it.
When I have time to play a game it comes in chunks of one hour or less (except for that rare weekend day when I can spend several hours on it). Very few MMOs accomodate that kind of schedule. That's the reason why I have not been actively playing any MMO for several years now. I'm thrilled that there will finally be one that can fit into my busy schedule. Despite loving SP games too, I really miss the richness, depth and breadth that only an MMO really captures, not to mention all of the social aspects.
Guild Wars 2 will be installed on my HD for a very long time.
So when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
I think you'll get them back before then!
If GW2 succeeds well enough, it will revilitize the industry in that the message will be that success comes from trying to differentiate from WoW rather than copying it. A good sandbox MMO is just a matter of time once that message gets sent.
Originally posted by Jagarid Originally posted by FoomerangSo when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
I think you'll get them back before then!
If GW2 succeeds well enough, it will revilitize the industry in that the message will be that success comes from trying to differentiate from WoW rather than copying it. A good sandbox MMO is just a matter of time once that message gets sent.
So when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
Actually I see GW2 as a step towards more mainstream sandboxes. Back to the roots, if you will. Granted, the game is very much a themepark but it does have some sandbox elements and should it succeed, we'll no doubt see more game implementing sandbox elements.
We started with sandboxes like UO and gradually moved from EQ to DAoC and to WoW and WoW clones thereafter. GW2 is the starting point which will bring the genre back to the sandbox.
So when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
Actually I see GW2 as a step towards more mainstream sandboxes. Back to the roots, if you will. Granted, the game is very much a themepark but it does have some sandbox elements and should it succeed, we'll no doubt see more game implementing sandbox elements.
We started with sandboxes like UO and gradually moved from EQ to DAoC and to WoW and WoW clones thereafter. GW2 is the starting point which will bring the genre back to the sandbox.
I actually like GW2, and I love sandboxes. But I do not see GW2 as a sandbox because it just isnt 1.
So when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
Actually I see GW2 as a step towards more mainstream sandboxes. Back to the roots, if you will. Granted, the game is very much a themepark but it does have some sandbox elements and should it succeed, we'll no doubt see more game implementing sandbox elements.
We started with sandboxes like UO and gradually moved from EQ to DAoC and to WoW and WoW clones thereafter. GW2 is the starting point which will bring the genre back to the sandbox.
I actually like GW2, and I love sandboxes. But I do not see GW2 as a sandbox because it just isnt 1.
It's not but it does have some sandbox elements. It's a gradual process, just like the change from sandbox to themepark all those years ago. GW2 is a themepark but should it succeed, future games will adopt more and more sandbox elements until we're back to the true sandbox.
KInd of like how most games released after WoW tried to copy WoW and expand on it's formula? Same concept here. If GW2 succeeds, future games will try to copy it and expand on the conventions.
Originally posted by heartless Originally posted by ConsequenceOriginally posted by heartlessOriginally posted by FoomerangSo when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
Actually I see GW2 as a step towards more mainstream sandboxes. Back to the roots, if you will. Granted, the game is very much a themepark but it does have some sandbox elements and should it succeed, we'll no doubt see more game implementing sandbox elements.We started with sandboxes like UO and gradually moved from EQ to DAoC and to WoW and WoW clones thereafter. GW2 is the starting point which will bring the genre back to the sandbox.I actually like GW2, and I love sandboxes. But I do not see GW2 as a sandbox because it just isnt 1.It's not but it does have some sandbox elements. It's a gradual process, just like the change from sandbox to themepark all those years ago. GW2 is a themepark but should it succeed, future games will adopt more and more sandbox elements until we're back to the true sandbox.
KInd of like how most games released after WoW tried to copy WoW and expand on it's formula? Same concept here. If GW2 succeeds, future games will try to copy it and expand on the conventions.
Just my opinion.
If GW2 becomes the new themepark standard, Id be optimistic about future titles. At least devs would start wanting to integrate seamless content which is a step in the right direction. Some other stuff about GW2 though, id rather not see become the standard. But ive drifted off topic. Sorry OP!
Comments
I concur.
Badaboom approved.
Only up to LFR. Afterwards, be prepared to create a schedule for specific raid and arena times.
Besides, everything that isn't a raid or arena is so trivialized that you could probably do most of it while half asleep anyways. I know I did.
nice read !
so easy a busy adult could do it??
NO RAIDS
While some detractors attempt to use this fact as a criticism of something Guild Wars 2 is lacking, the truth is that it’s actually one of the game’s strengths.
Let’s start by dispelling the myth of raiding as the ultimate in PvE endgame content. I enjoyed raiding in other MMOs for a number of years, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s designed to force players to spend their time on repetitive, scripted tasks purely for the sake of advancing to the next tier of repetitive, scripted tasks. Because of their static nature, and because they rely on the holy trinity of dedicated tanks, healers and damage dealers, raid boss encounters are like a puzzle, but it’s a puzzle you only need to solve once. Where does the tank stand? How many healers do you need? Can the DPS stay out of fire? Once you solve the puzzle, or have it solved for you by reading a kill strategy step by step, it’s really little challenge to repeat it over and over again.
And you WILL need to repeat it over and over again. Subscription MMOs need to keep you coming back to do the same thing week after week, long after the novelty has worn off, and the only way to incentivize the experience is to gate the rate at which everyone acquires gear. That’s why gear is randomized when it drops and why not everyone who participated gets a reward. That’s why content has weekly lockouts, preventing you from running it over and over again as much as you’d like. Similar to a Las Vegas slot machine, raiding is designed to give you a gambler’s high every so often so you’ll keep chasing that high night after night. The time you sink into raiding can really start to add up for adults with college courses, full-time jobs and families. Having to put your social life on hold, or to sacrifice time spent on other hobbies or with friends and family just to chase pixels with better stats, shouldn’t be considered the ultimate endgame experience.
Thankfully, Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have raiding. What it does have are other forms of large-scale, cooperative content that are far more dynamic, and far less monopolizing of your time, than raiding. The best part about all of this content is that you can participate and compete in every bit of it on a level playing field, without the barrier to entry of gear grinds, regardless of how much time you have to play.
When I finally started raiding about two years into LOTRO I really liked it at first because of the puzzle solving aspects of it. After about three months it sucked because I had it down and it was just repeat after repeat after repeat.... I'd have stopped but I was trapped because I was an officer, I was one of the two tanks needed for the big raids, etc. Plus the raids hard started the gear-dependency cycle.
Prior to the RoI expansion and greater focus on RAID, you could get the best armor in the game without doing a single raid. You just earned tokens by doing three-mans and a few six-mans. Boom, you've got a full set of Annuminas armor in about two weeks...
But then it became a grind and took six months to get half-way through the next set. Whcih then was superceeded by the next set... And when I got four pieces in... I logged out and pretty much stopped playing... I just couldn't stay on the pointless hamster wheel of the 'end game.'
I was happy to read this article. I raided in WoW for a while and really don't want to do that again. I'm glad there is an alternative.
I've been playing TSW and having fun leveling, but if the "end-game" is about raiding and gear grind, then I won't be there much longer. Hopefully Funcom will add some variety as TSW is still a new launch and maybe the devs have some innovation in the pipeline.
I'm glad to have GW2 coming up soon with a raiding-free game!
There Is Always Hope!
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/359874/Aerowyns-Video-Compilation-of-ALL-things-Guild-Wars-2.html
Absolutely agree. And as one of the people in that group I really appreciate GW2's approach. I was a hardcore player when I was younger but there is a time when you get older that your perspective changes and you need to balance your gaming with your career and family.
Its sad to see so much angst between hardcores and casuals sometimes... what they don't seem to realize is that most of us were them before we grew up, got jobs, and priorities changed. A hardcore is just a casual that doesn't have RL obligations yet. Can't wait till they do and they can listen to the same shit that younger generations put us through
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
This was the biggest deciding factor for me.
GW2 respects my time as a player.
Other mmorpg just want to waste my time on useless tasks
Big part of the reason why I love the game, for sure.
Back in the old days (EQ) I was young and had very little responsibilities, so devoting my life to the game worked. Now I have a career where I spend 10 or more hours each day at the office and have other responsibilities outside of work on top of it.
When I have time to play a game it comes in chunks of one hour or less (except for that rare weekend day when I can spend several hours on it). Very few MMOs accomodate that kind of schedule. That's the reason why I have not been actively playing any MMO for several years now. I'm thrilled that there will finally be one that can fit into my busy schedule. Despite loving SP games too, I really miss the richness, depth and breadth that only an MMO really captures, not to mention all of the social aspects.
Guild Wars 2 will be installed on my HD for a very long time.
So when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
I think you'll get them back before then!
If GW2 succeeds well enough, it will revilitize the industry in that the message will be that success comes from trying to differentiate from WoW rather than copying it. A good sandbox MMO is just a matter of time once that message gets sent.
If GW2 succeeds well enough, it will revilitize the industry in that the message will be that success comes from trying to differentiate from WoW rather than copying it. A good sandbox MMO is just a matter of time once that message gets sent.
You're probably right
If people are complaining about a lack of direction in Guild Wars 2 how in the hell are people going to come to grips with a sandbox?
Actually I see GW2 as a step towards more mainstream sandboxes. Back to the roots, if you will. Granted, the game is very much a themepark but it does have some sandbox elements and should it succeed, we'll no doubt see more game implementing sandbox elements.
We started with sandboxes like UO and gradually moved from EQ to DAoC and to WoW and WoW clones thereafter. GW2 is the starting point which will bring the genre back to the sandbox.
I actually like GW2, and I love sandboxes. But I do not see GW2 as a sandbox because it just isnt 1.
Thats a good question. My guess is they probably wont.
It's not but it does have some sandbox elements. It's a gradual process, just like the change from sandbox to themepark all those years ago. GW2 is a themepark but should it succeed, future games will adopt more and more sandbox elements until we're back to the true sandbox.
KInd of like how most games released after WoW tried to copy WoW and expand on it's formula? Same concept here. If GW2 succeeds, future games will try to copy it and expand on the conventions.
Just my opinion.
I actually like GW2, and I love sandboxes. But I do not see GW2 as a sandbox because it just isnt 1.
It's not but it does have some sandbox elements. It's a gradual process, just like the change from sandbox to themepark all those years ago. GW2 is a themepark but should it succeed, future games will adopt more and more sandbox elements until we're back to the true sandbox.
KInd of like how most games released after WoW tried to copy WoW and expand on it's formula? Same concept here. If GW2 succeeds, future games will try to copy it and expand on the conventions.
Just my opinion.
If GW2 becomes the new themepark standard, Id be optimistic about future titles. At least devs would start wanting to integrate seamless content which is a step in the right direction. Some other stuff about GW2 though, id rather not see become the standard. But ive drifted off topic. Sorry OP!