Of course it is perfect for busy adults, since they have the most money to spend on fluff etc in cash shop and the fewest time to achieve that through playing the game.
I was a bit surprised first that the author considered himself as a "MMO veteran" when he didn't play any game before WoW, but that guy for sure has a vision of those games which is larger than just WoW clones. I guess he would have loved to play UO or AC1.
Subscription based MMOs indeed breed repetitive content to keep people paying for as long as possible. The GW2 model is the opposite.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Absolutely agree. And as one of the people in that group I really appreciate GW2's approach. I was a hardcore player when I was younger but there is a time when you get older that your perspective changes and you need to balance your gaming with your career and family.
Its sad to see so much angst between hardcores and casuals sometimes... what they don't seem to realize is that most of us were them before we grew up, got jobs, and priorities changed. A hardcore is just a casual that doesn't have RL obligations yet. Can't wait till they do and they can listen to the same shit that younger generations put us through
I was a bit surprised first that the author considered himself as a "MMO veteran" when he didn't play any game before WoW, but that guy for sure has a vision of those games which is larger than just WoW clones. I guess he would have loved to play UO or AC1.
Subscription based MMOs indeed breed repetitive content to keep people paying for as long as possible. The GW2 model is the opposite.
I think it is fair to claim to be an MMO-veteran if you hav played WoW from vanilla and a number of other signifcant titles during or since.
I understand your hoary antidilluvian viewpoint on this - I am sure you played the first MUD's too , but I think a new title is due the pre-WoW 'veterans'....
I was a bit surprised first that the author considered himself as a "MMO veteran" when he didn't play any game before WoW, but that guy for sure has a vision of those games which is larger than just WoW clones. I guess he would have loved to play UO or AC1.
Subscription based MMOs indeed breed repetitive content to keep people paying for as long as possible. The GW2 model is the opposite.
I think it is fair to claim to be an MMO-veteran if you hav played WoW from vanilla and a number of other signifcant titles during or since.
I understand your hoary antidilluvian viewpoint on this - I am sure you played the first MUD's too , but I think a new title is due the pre-WoW 'veterans'....
.... 'Old School' might a be a good one?
Problem is, many of those "WoW veterans" know nothing beside WoW and its clones, and therefore think all MMORPGs should be like that. Those who played games before WoW know it's not true, of course. The person who wrote the article is an obvious exception, with a vision beyond the established elements of the games he has played.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Absolutely agree. And as one of the people in that group I really appreciate GW2's approach. I was a hardcore player when I was younger but there is a time when you get older that your perspective changes and you need to balance your gaming with your career and family.
Its sad to see so much angst between hardcores and casuals sometimes... what they don't seem to realize is that most of us were them before we grew up, got jobs, and priorities changed. A hardcore is just a casual that doesn't have RL obligations yet. Can't wait till they do and they can listen to the same shit that younger generations put us through
I dunno...
I make a living and I can still do hardcore somewhat,dont have kids though....thankfully lol
During BWE2, I had a lot going on around the house and needed to hop on for short sessions when I was able to for a portion of the event window. It was very easy to hop on for 15-20 minutes, do something productive and log off.
I think it's easier to do the game is small chunks like that than to play a few hours once a week, at least until people become so comfortable with the game that they don't "forget how to play their profession" during extended periods away from the game.
No subscription fee would make it a very attractive game for someone who has a limited time per session, but can play at least a little bit a few days or more a week.
I dont know if GW2 will be any good or not but the guys that are saying GW2 will be good for the future are totally wrong.
GW2 is gonna make the mmo experance a convenince one and that for one is not what any mmo should be and deffiently not what a sandbox should be. MMos are about your avatar and the alternate life you can create and maintain with your online friends . Some say they dont like raids or dungeions or farming gear to make your avatar better but if you dont have these as a goal in theampark mmo { which GW2 is ) then what have you got but endless nights of repetivie PvP/PVE with no goal. As for a sandbox mmo they dont need raid/dungeion and gear farming because there is so much else going on in game.
I for one think that if GW2 is sucssesful as WoW was then we are gonna see a change in the way mmos are made and not for the better.
So when all you breeders finally retire is when we get our sandboxes back? :P
You have your sandboxes! They're just often bad.
When the mainstream people lose their interest in MMORPGs, then it can ALL be bad niche titles since they don't think you're worth enough money to bother making a game for.
... but on the other hand, when it's only really bad games, they'll all seem really good, because no MMORPG with higher production values to compare to.
I dont know if GW2 will be any good or not but the guys that are saying GW2 will be good for the future are totally wrong.
GW2 is gonna make the mmo experance a convenince one and that for one is not what any mmo should be and deffiently not what a sandbox should be. MMos are about your avatar and the alternate life you can create and maintain with your online friends . Some say they dont like raids or dungeions or farming gear to make your avatar better but if you dont have these as a goal in theampark mmo { which GW2 is ) then what have you got but endless nights of repetivie PvP/PVE with no goal. As for a sandbox mmo they dont need raid/dungeion and gear farming because there is so much else going on in game.
I for one think that if GW2 is sucssesful as WoW was then we are gonna see a change in the way mmos are made and not for the better.
That is a vision of MMORPGs.
Then there is a vision that MMORPGs are first and foremost a VIDEO GAME.
Now, what has more players, MMORPGs or VIDEO GAMES?
Even WoW, that makes a nice portion (lion share really) of MMORPGs did so by making it more a VIDEO GAME.
Since I'm a gamer that likes to play MMOs with a RPG setting, this kind of evolution is what I was hoping for.
GW2 is a MMORPG for part of the traditional MMORPG player base but also for the video games player.
So the question is, what is the majority view?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
This basic premise of the article in the op is one of my reasons for enjoying, albeit not my main reason. During the BWEs I had to go AFK here and there to do this and that and popped right back in and kept rolling when i was done.
I am not entirely sure of the basis for the % in the statistics quoted though. The main article that the number were quoted in stated that 1200 representative households were polled and that it was 'presented' at E3. 1200 is far to low a number to create any comprehensive statistical facts. Also, if the poll took place at E3 (didn't see the specifics) then you would have an inordinate number of 'older' persons for the simple fact that they can (often) afford to go places and do things, where some of the 'younger' folks might not have the revenue to attend.
I'm more than happy that GW2 has turned the way it is and most of all that it adapted parts of the city of heroes systems (no gear, level scaling) cause I'm tired of seeing such grindy "endgames" no matter if a game is a f2p or a p2p.
Seriously, a friend of mine farmed a instance in wow for 700 hours so he can get a full set of special armor and then almost the equal amount so he can kill a dragon that spawns ONCE in 24 hours so he can get a "rare mount".
I would had never spent so much time doing the same over and over only to gain something like this cause its not only boring and repetitive but most of all unenjoyable and not worth my time.
As a busy adult I do like the fact GW2 is casual friendly in its design and in a few different ways. The brilliance is that those with a lot more time can also find a home with GW2. It was made pretty open ended.
I dont know if GW2 will be any good or not but the guys that are saying GW2 will be good for the future are totally wrong.
GW2 is gonna make the mmo experance a convenince one and that for one is not what any mmo should be and deffiently not what a sandbox should be. MMos are about your avatar and the alternate life you can create and maintain with your online friends . Some say they dont like raids or dungeions or farming gear to make your avatar better but if you dont have these as a goal in theampark mmo { which GW2 is ) then what have you got but endless nights of repetivie PvP/PVE with no goal. As for a sandbox mmo they dont need raid/dungeion and gear farming because there is so much else going on in game.
I for one think that if GW2 is sucssesful as WoW was then we are gonna see a change in the way mmos are made and not for the better.
What does convenince have to do with sandbox features? Why is there this myth that casual time commitment and sandbox play are mutually exclusive? I sometimes wonder if a "sandbox" is really what is wanted by the "sandbox" lovers. I wonder if what is really most important is something that keeps them busy for 8-16 hours a day, through insane grinds and epeen acheivements and not something that keeps them busy by providing enough lego bricks for them to be creative. I never thought of mindcraft as particularly casual unfriendly or grindy.
I was a bit surprised first that the author considered himself as a "MMO veteran" when he didn't play any game before WoW, but that guy for sure has a vision of those games which is larger than just WoW clones. I guess he would have loved to play UO or AC1.
Subscription based MMOs indeed breed repetitive content to keep people paying for as long as possible. The GW2 model is the opposite.
I really don't see how GW2 is the opposite really considering their philsophy of repeating DE's, the only difference I can see in their PVE design is you're not tied down to a path to experience that content, as well as a lack of gated content.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I was a bit surprised first that the author considered himself as a "MMO veteran" when he didn't play any game before WoW, but that guy for sure has a vision of those games which is larger than just WoW clones. I guess he would have loved to play UO or AC1.
Subscription based MMOs indeed breed repetitive content to keep people paying for as long as possible. The GW2 model is the opposite.
I really don't see how GW2 is the opposite really considering their philsophy of repeating DE's, the only difference I can see in their PVE design is you're not tied down to a path to experience that content, as well as a lack of gated content.
The difference should be obvious based just on the portion of his post you highlighted. There's no sub, any repeatable content is not meant to be a dangling carrot to keep people paying a monthly fee. Content is always going to be repeated, in any game, not even GW2 is exempt from that. The idea however, should be to repeat it because it's still fun, just like you would a single-player game that you're playing even though you've already beaten it, just because you still enjoy it.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Comments
Of course it is perfect for busy adults, since they have the most money to spend on fluff etc in cash shop and the fewest time to achieve that through playing the game.
A very good article.
I was a bit surprised first that the author considered himself as a "MMO veteran" when he didn't play any game before WoW, but that guy for sure has a vision of those games which is larger than just WoW clones. I guess he would have loved to play UO or AC1.
Subscription based MMOs indeed breed repetitive content to keep people paying for as long as possible. The GW2 model is the opposite.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
This will be one of the main reasons why GW2 will become a huge hit
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Grunties you are my new hero - well said!
I think it is fair to claim to be an MMO-veteran if you hav played WoW from vanilla and a number of other signifcant titles during or since.
I understand your hoary antidilluvian viewpoint on this - I am sure you played the first MUD's too
, but I think a new title is due the pre-WoW 'veterans'....
.... 'Old School' might a be a good one?
Problem is, many of those "WoW veterans" know nothing beside WoW and its clones, and therefore think all MMORPGs should be like that. Those who played games before WoW know it's not true, of course. The person who wrote the article is an obvious exception, with a vision beyond the established elements of the games he has played.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
lol seriously
when do we get a day care free game.
I dunno...
I make a living and I can still do hardcore somewhat,dont have kids though....thankfully lol
During BWE2, I had a lot going on around the house and needed to hop on for short sessions when I was able to for a portion of the event window. It was very easy to hop on for 15-20 minutes, do something productive and log off.
I think it's easier to do the game is small chunks like that than to play a few hours once a week, at least until people become so comfortable with the game that they don't "forget how to play their profession" during extended periods away from the game.
No subscription fee would make it a very attractive game for someone who has a limited time per session, but can play at least a little bit a few days or more a week.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I dont know if GW2 will be any good or not but the guys that are saying GW2 will be good for the future are totally wrong.
GW2 is gonna make the mmo experance a convenince one and that for one is not what any mmo should be and deffiently not what a sandbox should be. MMos are about your avatar and the alternate life you can create and maintain with your online friends . Some say they dont like raids or dungeions or farming gear to make your avatar better but if you dont have these as a goal in theampark mmo { which GW2 is ) then what have you got but endless nights of repetivie PvP/PVE with no goal. As for a sandbox mmo they dont need raid/dungeion and gear farming because there is so much else going on in game.
I for one think that if GW2 is sucssesful as WoW was then we are gonna see a change in the way mmos are made and not for the better.
You have your sandboxes! They're just often bad.
When the mainstream people lose their interest in MMORPGs, then it can ALL be bad niche titles since they don't think you're worth enough money to bother making a game for.
... but on the other hand, when it's only really bad games, they'll all seem really good, because no MMORPG with higher production values to compare to.
That is a vision of MMORPGs.
Then there is a vision that MMORPGs are first and foremost a VIDEO GAME.
Now, what has more players, MMORPGs or VIDEO GAMES?
Even WoW, that makes a nice portion (lion share really) of MMORPGs did so by making it more a VIDEO GAME.
Since I'm a gamer that likes to play MMOs with a RPG setting, this kind of evolution is what I was hoping for.
GW2 is a MMORPG for part of the traditional MMORPG player base but also for the video games player.
So the question is, what is the majority view?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
This basic premise of the article in the op is one of my reasons for enjoying, albeit not my main reason. During the BWEs I had to go AFK here and there to do this and that and popped right back in and kept rolling when i was done.
I am not entirely sure of the basis for the % in the statistics quoted though. The main article that the number were quoted in stated that 1200 representative households were polled and that it was 'presented' at E3. 1200 is far to low a number to create any comprehensive statistical facts. Also, if the poll took place at E3 (didn't see the specifics) then you would have an inordinate number of 'older' persons for the simple fact that they can (often) afford to go places and do things, where some of the 'younger' folks might not have the revenue to attend.
I'm more than happy that GW2 has turned the way it is and most of all that it adapted parts of the city of heroes systems (no gear, level scaling) cause I'm tired of seeing such grindy "endgames" no matter if a game is a f2p or a p2p.
Seriously, a friend of mine farmed a instance in wow for 700 hours so he can get a full set of special armor and then almost the equal amount so he can kill a dragon that spawns ONCE in 24 hours so he can get a "rare mount".
I would had never spent so much time doing the same over and over only to gain something like this cause its not only boring and repetitive but most of all unenjoyable and not worth my time.
awesome article
thanks for sharing
+1
I'd say the market for casual players is much bigger than hardcore gamers.
What does convenince have to do with sandbox features? Why is there this myth that casual time commitment and sandbox play are mutually exclusive? I sometimes wonder if a "sandbox" is really what is wanted by the "sandbox" lovers. I wonder if what is really most important is something that keeps them busy for 8-16 hours a day, through insane grinds and epeen acheivements and not something that keeps them busy by providing enough lego bricks for them to be creative. I never thought of mindcraft as particularly casual unfriendly or grindy.
I really don't see how GW2 is the opposite really considering their philsophy of repeating DE's, the only difference I can see in their PVE design is you're not tied down to a path to experience that content, as well as a lack of gated content.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The difference should be obvious based just on the portion of his post you highlighted. There's no sub, any repeatable content is not meant to be a dangling carrot to keep people paying a monthly fee. Content is always going to be repeated, in any game, not even GW2 is exempt from that. The idea however, should be to repeat it because it's still fun, just like you would a single-player game that you're playing even though you've already beaten it, just because you still enjoy it.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."