This game, like all games, will drift into obscurity. No one, not even 10 years from now, is going to give two shits that any of us played GW2..or any other game for that matter.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
Originally posted by tank017 OP....how long did you play WoW for?
From just after launch until some time in Cata... around the time that rated BGs came out and 2v2 arena got the shaft.
I loved WoW when I played and think it's a great game. I don't mind the pandas and don't want to see WoW die. I'm just excited about GW2 coming out in a week and am talking shit, no harm meant.
This game, like all games, will drift into obscurity. No one, not even 10 years from now, is going to give two shits that any of us played GW2..or any other game for that matter.
Hmm, I think those who are still playing GW1 would have to call you out on that one. Also, the new fanbase that is pulling many from other games would have to argue with you. Are you the same guy that was playing EQ when WoW came out and stated the same statement about it?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I for 1 am really happy GW2 is selling well, it mean's there are other people out there bored with the SSDD cookie cutter mold mmo's nowday's. The part that drive's me kinda bonker's (and I do it to) is comapring a new game vs a game with 8+ year's of content and developement.
For us that can't dedicate 4-6 hour's 4-5 day's a week to a raiding scedule it's nice having a game with little to no preasure to login for a second job (imho)
Plus there are people that will not rush to 80, and just wander around enjoying the various part's of the game that make them go holy crap that is freaggin awesome!!!
Imho GW2 is made for the people that can't dedicate a ton of time to the game daily, and to me that's all to the good.
A little excessive, I don't think that will happen.
I'll give you that it's unlikely that christ will descend.
I also do not believe that WoW will die, just bleed a little.
But GW2 will outperform predictions and I welcome all positive and negative opinions about this point.
Off Topic: Did you see how happy Cooke Monster was to see that giant cookie? That's how I feel knowing I'm one week out!
Apparently, GW2 has already outperformed NCSoft and ArenaNet's expectations. They estimated 3.1 million sales for 2012, before GW2 apparently started outperforming their expectations.
Originally posted by tank017 OP....how long did you play WoW for?
From just after launch until some time in Cata... around the time that rated BGs came out and 2v2 arena got the shaft.
I loved WoW when I played and think it's a great game. I don't mind the pandas and don't want to see WoW die. I'm just excited about GW2 coming out in a week and am talking shit, no harm meant.
Makes the disappointment they will have hurt that much more.
I'm telling you now, it will last a month. No meaningful progression=boredom.
Oh, people will play from time to time. Heck, it's free. But everyone will be looking for the next thing all too soon. The game is just too shallow.
I've already managed close to 150 hours of playtest time between all events, on characters I knew would be wiped. It's the most fun ~150 hours I've spent playing an MMO and I still have large sections of the content that was available in the events that I never touched and the more than 50% of the game we didn't have access to to look forward to.
The state of the genre has been so bad in recent years that I've lowered my expectations to the point that if I get 50 hours of play time for the box price, that's left me feeling I at least got my money's worth.
I think retention for this game will be very high. This is not a "month and out" sort of game. The lack of sub fee will help people who need more than a month to adjust to the new paradigm time to work the old MMO habits out of their system, with out the pressures of justifying an additional, ongoing cash investment.
It's nice to have an MMO that you'd actually want to play for more than a month or two. Based on my extensive beta experience, I fully expect to get well over 1,000 hours of play time from the content that ships with the game at launch.
BTW, there is progression in the game, just no artificial, never ending, ever escalating end game gear grind progression. I think the average /played to get a character to the cap and outfit them with max stat gear will be ~135 hours. Even if someone stopped at that point because they couldn't understand that gear progression isn't important for enjoying the game, they'd still get more from the game than most MMOs offer.
IMO, most people who make it to the level cap will, by that point "get the game" and wonder why they ever thought end game gear grinds were fun.
Makes the disappointment they will have hurt that much more.
I'm telling you now, it will last a month. No meaningful progression=boredom.
Oh, people will play from time to time. Heck, it's free. But everyone will be looking for the next thing all too soon. The game is just too shallow.
I've already managed close to 150 hours of playtest time between all events, on characters I knew would be wiped. It's the most fun ~150 hours I've spent playing an MMO and I still have large sections of the content that was available in the events that I never touched and the more than 50% of the game we didn't have access to to look forward to.
The state of the genre has been so bad in recent years that I've lowered my expectations to the point that if I get 50 hours of play time for the box price, that's left me feeling I at least got my money's worth.
I think retention for this game will be very high. This is not a "month and out" sort of game. The lack of sub fee will help people who need more than a month to adjust to the new paradigm time to work the old MMO habits out of their system, with out the pressures of justifying an additional, ongoing cash investment.
It's nice to have an MMO that you'd actually want to play for more than a month or two. Based on my extensive beta experience, I fully expect to get well over 1,000 hours of play time from the content that ships with the game at launch.
BTW, there is progression in the game, just no artificial, never ending, ever escalating end game gear grind progression. I think the average /played to get a character to the cap and outfit them with max stat gear will be ~135 hours. Even if someone stopped at that point because they couldn't understand that gear progression isn't important for enjoying the game, they'd still get more from the game than most MMOs offer.
IMO, most people who make it to the level cap will, by that point "get the game" and wonder why they ever thought end game gear grinds were fun.
^Goosebumps
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
you haters are really going to be put on quiet time soon when they actually release sales and pre sales trust me and thats all im saying but you will eat your words here watch and see.
Makes the disappointment they will have hurt that much more.
I'm telling you now, it will last a month. No meaningful progression=boredom.
Oh, people will play from time to time. Heck, it's free. But everyone will be looking for the next thing all too soon. The game is just too shallow.
I've already managed close to 150 hours of playtest time between all events, on characters I knew would be wiped. It's the most fun ~150 hours I've spent playing an MMO and I still have large sections of the content that was available in the events that I never touched and the more than 50% of the game we didn't have access to to look forward to.
The state of the genre has been so bad in recent years that I've lowered my expectations to the point that if I get 50 hours of play time for the box price, that's left me feeling I at least got my money's worth.
I think retention for this game will be very high. This is not a "month and out" sort of game. The lack of sub fee will help people who need more than a month to adjust to the new paradigm time to work the old MMO habits out of their system, with out the pressures of justifying an additional, ongoing cash investment.
It's nice to have an MMO that you'd actually want to play for more than a month or two. Based on my extensive beta experience, I fully expect to get well over 1,000 hours of play time from the content that ships with the game at launch.
BTW, there is progression in the game, just no artificial, never ending, ever escalating end game gear grind progression. I think the average /played to get a character to the cap and outfit them with max stat gear will be ~135 hours. Even if someone stopped at that point because they couldn't understand that gear progression isn't important for enjoying the game, they'd still get more from the game than most MMOs offer.
IMO, most people who make it to the level cap will, by that point "get the game" and wonder why they ever thought end game gear grinds were fun.
Nice read, thanks for sharing that.
I left this out of my last reply but it is funny to me that we all shout for wanting NEW, Innovation, not another WoW clone. So you get GW2 whose very foundation is something new and different then what we have become used to over the years and now people complain that GW2 is not like all the other games. Mind = blown :P
Makes the disappointment they will have hurt that much more.
I'm telling you now, it will last a month. No meaningful progression=boredom.
Oh, people will play from time to time. Heck, it's free. But everyone will be looking for the next thing all too soon. The game is just too shallow.
I've already managed close to 150 hours of playtest time between all events, on characters I knew would be wiped. It's the most fun ~150 hours I've spent playing an MMO and I still have large sections of the content that was available in the events that I never touched and the more than 50% of the game we didn't have access to to look forward to.
The state of the genre has been so bad in recent years that I've lowered my expectations to the point that if I get 50 hours of play time for the box price, that's left me feeling I at least got my money's worth.
I think retention for this game will be very high. This is not a "month and out" sort of game. The lack of sub fee will help people who need more than a month to adjust to the new paradigm time to work the old MMO habits out of their system, with out the pressures of justifying an additional, ongoing cash investment.
It's nice to have an MMO that you'd actually want to play for more than a month or two. Based on my extensive beta experience, I fully expect to get well over 1,000 hours of play time from the content that ships with the game at launch.
BTW, there is progression in the game, just no artificial, never ending, ever escalating end game gear grind progression. I think the average /played to get a character to the cap and outfit them with max stat gear will be ~135 hours. Even if someone stopped at that point because they couldn't understand that gear progression isn't important for enjoying the game, they'd still get more from the game than most MMOs offer.
IMO, most people who make it to the level cap will, by that point "get the game" and wonder why they ever thought end game gear grinds were fun.
Nice read, thanks for sharing that.
I left this out of my last reply but it is funny to me that we all shout for wanting NEW, Innovation, not another WoW clone. So you get GW2 whose very foundation is something new and different then what we have become used to over the years and now people complain that GW2 is not like all the other games. Mind = blown :P
MMO players don't know what they want. They want one thing, but want something completely the opposite, but want something else.
Makes the disappointment they will have hurt that much more.
I'm telling you now, it will last a month. No meaningful progression=boredom.
Oh, people will play from time to time. Heck, it's free. But everyone will be looking for the next thing all too soon. The game is just too shallow.
I've already managed close to 150 hours of playtest time between all events, on characters I knew would be wiped. It's the most fun ~150 hours I've spent playing an MMO and I still have large sections of the content that was available in the events that I never touched and the more than 50% of the game we didn't have access to to look forward to.
The state of the genre has been so bad in recent years that I've lowered my expectations to the point that if I get 50 hours of play time for the box price, that's left me feeling I at least got my money's worth.
I think retention for this game will be very high. This is not a "month and out" sort of game. The lack of sub fee will help people who need more than a month to adjust to the new paradigm time to work the old MMO habits out of their system, with out the pressures of justifying an additional, ongoing cash investment.
It's nice to have an MMO that you'd actually want to play for more than a month or two. Based on my extensive beta experience, I fully expect to get well over 1,000 hours of play time from the content that ships with the game at launch.
BTW, there is progression in the game, just no artificial, never ending, ever escalating end game gear grind progression. I think the average /played to get a character to the cap and outfit them with max stat gear will be ~135 hours. Even if someone stopped at that point because they couldn't understand that gear progression isn't important for enjoying the game, they'd still get more from the game than most MMOs offer.
IMO, most people who make it to the level cap will, by that point "get the game" and wonder why they ever thought end game gear grinds were fun.
Nice read, thanks for sharing that.
I left this out of my last reply but it is funny to me that we all shout for wanting NEW, Innovation, not another WoW clone. So you get GW2 whose very foundation is something new and different then what we have become used to over the years and now people complain that GW2 is not like all the other games. Mind = blown :P
these guys are just jaded and complain about anything and everything on this site. Its going to be hilarious though when sales numbers are released here and they will then have some other lame excuse on why guild wars 2 will never ever be successful . This game is releasing with more content then any other mmorpg to date has released with in the last 5 years and they are still going to find everything they possible can to complain about . The hilarious thing about it all is they are nit picking now because they cant find anything good to actually gripe a valid complaint about here.
Makes the disappointment they will have hurt that much more.
I'm telling you now, it will last a month. No meaningful progression=boredom.
Oh, people will play from time to time. Heck, it's free. But everyone will be looking for the next thing all too soon. The game is just too shallow.
I rarely post but I felt that I should say something here with regards to progression. I have been playing MMOs since EQ first launched, not as long as some but far longer then most. During my years I have played every single big MMO release and all of them with the exception of 2 games have held my attention, those being Everquest and World of Warcraft. I played those games for many many years.
Guild Wars 2 is the first game since WoW came out that has given me that feeling of being part of a world, that itch and drive to play and well just simply having a lot of fun playing it. Granted this is purely my feelings on the matter but I am willing to bet that many others share those feelings.
With regards to progression or a lack there of with GW2 I feel that you are incorrect on two very big areas.
1) The definition of progression is a loose one and also something that can mean different things to different people. The mindset of "Raid or die" as progression is one that is deeply rooted into the minds of the MMO gamer because this formula has been used for so long.
Progression is there in GW2 from dungeons, to dragons (har har), equipment sets and most importantly skill progression as in player skill.
2) One of the most popular games right now on the PC is League of Legends. This is not an MMO but it is a solely online game whose form of progression is derived from player skill and rising in ELO to tournement play.
GW2 took a lot of inspiration for LoL and I feel that GW2 is deeply rooted as a strong PvP game and whose progression is based on player skill and team dynamics. This is Progression but rather then raiding and showing off epix while feeling pro because you beat people in pvp who are not as geared as you are, you show people that your just down right more skilled based on skill alone.
GW2 does not have the same tired progression that people have become so brainwashed into thinking is the only form of progression. I for one welcome the change because after so many years of doing the same routine of blasting through the game to hit the mythical endgame to raid is just not overly rewarding anymore. Having a game built around raiding to farm items in order to raid the next place for more items and then the sit and wait for new raid content is just old and worn out. Is is the epitome of beating a dear horse IMO.
One must also consider that the majority of people buying this games are adults in their 30s. Those same adults who once long ago were more then happy with spending countless hours being tied down into raiding schedules. These adults now have grown up jobs, families and more.
Will GW2 follow the same pattern we have been seeing since the release of WoW and the subsequant explosion of MMOs hitting the market? That being of course the dreaded drop offs after the first launch month?
Well from a financial point of view, no, as there is no sub fee.
As a game I feel again no. This is just a feeling based on my 14 years of playing these games and knowing within a few days or even a few hours that whatever MMO im trying is not one I intend to continue with. GW2 does not leave that feeling with me but rather has given me that new and exciting feeling that I got from EQ and WoW.
Lastly to defend developers a bit....many of these games even if not right for you, them or I, have been decent and with time could have been great. We the consumers though have grown an Arrogant sense of entitlement and the flood of new games has only helped to strenghten this toxic behavior.
I have no doubt we will see the same ranting and raving and I also have no doubt that as I read through these posts I will see clearly how we the consumer in todays MMO market do not allow ourselves to be content or pleased.
That said GW2 will do fine and I feel will be the next big thing in the progression of MMOs :P
Progression is not easily defined and rather most people ate up the definition we have been given and are not able to redfine or exand upon what progression is. The progression is there but is not a cut n copy of what you we have been fed and told to do in our games for the past 15 years.
Good post. Things like " Meaningful Progression","Grind" and heck, even "fun" can mean different things to different people.
May we asume that if GW2 wont sell 3 million copies be the end of the year we can sau it failed ? I think it does, but realy i think they sell 5 million copies before this year is over, we all have to wait and see.
Great games sell themselves and with MoP being on of the most discussed expansion of being related to a panda that practise kung fu many gamers might step up and say: no thanks blizzard this is to much, Cataclysm was already a big let down, MoP is the final straw. So many gamers out there are undicided players and they might pick up and try a new mmo.
Dont forget that since Wrath of the Lich King wow lost 1/4 of their playebase. 12.7 million at the peak in Wrath 9.1 million in Q2 2012. (around 5/6 million people are from asia tough) Thats alot of potantial buyers floating out there.
So a save predicion would realy be 2 million in the 1st week and maybe a 1 million more after 1 month of MoB when the people played trough WoW. Maybe even mroe when cristmass hits and people get lots of presents.
Time will tell us what box sales they end up with, but GW2 beats wow hands down in fun factor and thats what counts for me and many gamers no matter how many box sales.
Its a obvious statment that the investors will be disappointed. Seriously tell me the last time the investors were actually impressed.
The only reason WoW did so well was because it was the first MMO main stream enough to pull players to it. lets face it EQ and DAOC were not main stream in gaming. They were Hardcore.
Gotta tell you the truth folks, gotta tell you the truth. MMO's are bad investments.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
The truth is NCsoft won't make that much money. Since after all, Guild Wars 2 is B2P. Unless they can rack alot of money from cashshop.
When I complain about the cash shop, I was mocked by a bunch of people. They keep telling me about how GW2 is big budget and they really dont' make much money blah blah.
Comments
Me too. Me too.
Haha....that last part was funny.
This game, like all games, will drift into obscurity. No one, not even 10 years from now, is going to give two shits that any of us played GW2..or any other game for that matter.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
From just after launch until some time in Cata... around the time that rated BGs came out and 2v2 arena got the shaft.
I loved WoW when I played and think it's a great game. I don't mind the pandas and don't want to see WoW die. I'm just excited about GW2 coming out in a week and am talking shit, no harm meant.
Hmm, I think those who are still playing GW1 would have to call you out on that one. Also, the new fanbase that is pulling many from other games would have to argue with you. Are you the same guy that was playing EQ when WoW came out and stated the same statement about it?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I for 1 am really happy GW2 is selling well, it mean's there are other people out there bored with the SSDD cookie cutter mold mmo's nowday's. The part that drive's me kinda bonker's (and I do it to) is comapring a new game vs a game with 8+ year's of content and developement.
For us that can't dedicate 4-6 hour's 4-5 day's a week to a raiding scedule it's nice having a game with little to no preasure to login for a second job (imho)
Plus there are people that will not rush to 80, and just wander around enjoying the various part's of the game that make them go holy crap that is freaggin awesome!!!
Imho GW2 is made for the people that can't dedicate a ton of time to the game daily, and to me that's all to the good.
Apparently, GW2 has already outperformed NCSoft and ArenaNet's expectations. They estimated 3.1 million sales for 2012, before GW2 apparently started outperforming their expectations.
Indeed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JKOxh3syoo&feature=player_embedded
32.30 secs in mins in but it is so good you might enjoy the rest of it.
interesting train of thought..
I've already managed close to 150 hours of playtest time between all events, on characters I knew would be wiped. It's the most fun ~150 hours I've spent playing an MMO and I still have large sections of the content that was available in the events that I never touched and the more than 50% of the game we didn't have access to to look forward to.
The state of the genre has been so bad in recent years that I've lowered my expectations to the point that if I get 50 hours of play time for the box price, that's left me feeling I at least got my money's worth.
I think retention for this game will be very high. This is not a "month and out" sort of game. The lack of sub fee will help people who need more than a month to adjust to the new paradigm time to work the old MMO habits out of their system, with out the pressures of justifying an additional, ongoing cash investment.
It's nice to have an MMO that you'd actually want to play for more than a month or two. Based on my extensive beta experience, I fully expect to get well over 1,000 hours of play time from the content that ships with the game at launch.
BTW, there is progression in the game, just no artificial, never ending, ever escalating end game gear grind progression. I think the average /played to get a character to the cap and outfit them with max stat gear will be ~135 hours. Even if someone stopped at that point because they couldn't understand that gear progression isn't important for enjoying the game, they'd still get more from the game than most MMOs offer.
IMO, most people who make it to the level cap will, by that point "get the game" and wonder why they ever thought end game gear grinds were fun.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
^Goosebumps
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I'll make a note of this in your file.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Nice read, thanks for sharing that.
I left this out of my last reply but it is funny to me that we all shout for wanting NEW, Innovation, not another WoW clone. So you get GW2 whose very foundation is something new and different then what we have become used to over the years and now people complain that GW2 is not like all the other games. Mind = blown :P
MMO players don't know what they want. They want one thing, but want something completely the opposite, but want something else.
these guys are just jaded and complain about anything and everything on this site. Its going to be hilarious though when sales numbers are released here and they will then have some other lame excuse on why guild wars 2 will never ever be successful . This game is releasing with more content then any other mmorpg to date has released with in the last 5 years and they are still going to find everything they possible can to complain about . The hilarious thing about it all is they are nit picking now because they cant find anything good to actually gripe a valid complaint about here.
Finally an mmo I can play once a month! Once a week was just way too much~
HYPE TRAIN GO!
HYPE TEAM ASSEMBLE!
Good post. Things like " Meaningful Progression","Grind" and heck, even "fun" can mean different things to different people.
Touché!
May we asume that if GW2 wont sell 3 million copies be the end of the year we can sau it failed ?
I think it does, but realy i think they sell 5 million copies before this year is over, we all have to wait and see.
Great games sell themselves and with MoP being on of the most discussed expansion of being related to a panda that practise kung fu many gamers might step up and say: no thanks blizzard this is to much, Cataclysm was already a big let down, MoP is the final straw.
So many gamers out there are undicided players and they might pick up and try a new mmo.
Dont forget that since Wrath of the Lich King wow lost 1/4 of their playebase. 12.7 million at the peak in Wrath 9.1 million in Q2 2012. (around 5/6 million people are from asia tough)
Thats alot of potantial buyers floating out there.
So a save predicion would realy be 2 million in the 1st week and maybe a 1 million more after 1 month of MoB when the people played trough WoW.
Maybe even mroe when cristmass hits and people get lots of presents.
Time will tell us what box sales they end up with, but GW2 beats wow hands down in fun factor and thats what counts for me and many gamers no matter how many box sales.
Its a obvious statment that the investors will be disappointed. Seriously tell me the last time the investors were actually impressed.
The only reason WoW did so well was because it was the first MMO main stream enough to pull players to it. lets face it EQ and DAOC were not main stream in gaming. They were Hardcore.
Gotta tell you the truth folks, gotta tell you the truth. MMO's are bad investments.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
The truth is NCsoft won't make that much money. Since after all, Guild Wars 2 is B2P. Unless they can rack alot of money from cashshop.
When I complain about the cash shop, I was mocked by a bunch of people. They keep telling me about how GW2 is big budget and they really dont' make much money blah blah.
http://www.twitch.tv/got_game_tv/ (livestream)
The War Z Shenanigans(youtube)
DayZ FUNTIME!
Mortal Online Vids