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The Dynamic World of Tyria.. your thoughts on DE's
Aerowyn
Member Posts: 7,928
When I see people who don't care for the game's PVE a lot of the time I see them say they don't see the point in the DE's or they don't see how it's differn't from Rift or Warhammer. I find this strange because playing through the beta weekends this aspect of the PVE stuck out more than anything else by far. Coming from playing games like TERA or WOW or Rift or Warhammer then playing GW2 I just can't see how people can not see how big of a differnce the questing changes the feel on the entire game and how much immersion it adds. Anyway first an explanation from ANET
http://www.guildwars2forum.com/threads/3-Dynamic-Events-In-Guild-Wars-2-Explained-By-ArenaNet
"My name is Colin Johanson, and I'm the Lead Content Designer for Guild Wars 2. The content design team is responsible for developing what happens in the events, storyline, mini-games, and any other content you encounter in the Guild Wars 2 world. In this article I'm going to focus on explaining how the dynamic event system we've developed for Guild Wars 2 works, and how it challenges the fundamental ways content has been presented to players in traditional MMORPGs.
When building an MMO, we had to examine every core piece of accepted content from traditional games in the genre and ask, "How can this be improved?" By looking at the traditional quest system used in basically every MMO ever made, we've come to the conclusion that quests have a lot of areas for improvement. To address these flaws, we've developed our dynamic event system.
Traditional quest systems involve walking up to a character who usually has an exclamation point or question mark hovering over their head and talking to them. From here, you get a massive wall of text hardly anyone reads that describes a horrible or totally mundane thing going on in the world that you need to help with. You run off, complete this task, then return and talk to this character again to receive another wall of text and a reward. Traditional quest systems rely on these blocks of quest text to tell you what is happening in the world; this is just an outdated form of storytelling.
In Guild Wars 2, our event system won't make you read a huge quest description to find out what's going on. You'll experience it by seeing and hearing things in the world. If a dragon is attacking, you won't read three paragraphs telling you about it, you'll see buildings exploding in giant balls of fire, and hear characters in the game world screaming about a dragon attack. You'll hear guards from nearby cities trying to recruit players to go help fight the dragon, and see huge clouds of smoke in the distance, rising from the village under siege.
There is a second fundamental flaw to traditional quest systems: what the quest text tells you is happening in a quest is not actually what is happening in the world.
For example, in a traditional MMO, the character who gives you a quest will tell you ogres are coming to destroy the character's home, and you need to kill them. You then get a quest which says, "Kill 0/10 ogres" and you proceed to kill a bunch of ogres standing around in a field picking daisies. Since every player in the game needs to be able to do this quest, the ogres will never actually threaten the character's home - they will just eternally pick daisies in the field. The ogres aren't actually doing what the quest says they are - the game is lying to you!
At ArenaNet, we believe this is NOT good enough. In Guild Wars 2, if a character tells you ogres are coming to destroy a house, they will really come and smash down the house if you don't stop them!
A Living Breathing World
By building a world where you see and hear the experiences, Guild Wars 2 will evolve the MMORPG genre by making a game world that feels truly alive. The core of this evolution is our event system, which allows the world to dynamically change based on actions and decisions made by the players. A single player decision can cascade across a zone, changing the direction of a chain of events until they dramatically alter the content played by players in a map.
Other developers have tried to tackle this problem, but in Guild Wars 2 we go further. Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended.
In traditional MMOs, when a quest is completed it has no real effect on the game world. You receive your reward and then move on, looking for the next quest to do. The world appears no better or worse for your actions. In GW2, the outcome of every event will directly affect the game world around you. If an enemy dredge army is marching out of their main base, players will be asked to mobilize with their allies and help destroy the army. If the dredge army is defeated, other events will cascade out from there. Players will be able battle their way inside the dredge base, face off against their commander, rescue captured friendly troops being held in the dredge prisons, and even hold the captured base while fighting waves of dredge, who arrive from deep underground to try and take back their home.
If, on the other hand, players fail to destroy the army, it will establish a fort in friendly player territory. From there, the dredge will send shipments of troops and supplies to the fort from the main base while building up walls, turrets, and siege engines to help defend it. Enemy dredge forces will then begin to move out from their newly established fort to attack friendly player locations in the area, sending snipers out into the hills, sending assault team forces to capture friendly player villages, and trying to smash down friendly fortifications with massive dredge walkers. All of these events continue to cascade out into further chains of events where cause and effect is directly related to the player's actions.
For example, if the players do not mobilize to stop the dredge snipers, they'll begin to shoot down all the villagers and merchants in nearby friendly villages. If they fail to stop the dredge assault teams from capturing a village, players will need to lead a force to help liberate the town and free the villagers. All of this content is derived from a single initial event - the dredge army marching through the map.
These are just some of the thousands of events we've designed in Guild Wars 2, where every action taken by the players will have direct, visible, cause and effect in the game world."
Dynamic Events in Guild Wars 2 Dev Intro
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic
Now some videos from the community.
TotalBiscuit Talks Dynamic Events (long video but I skipped to part he starts talking about DE's)
Dynamic Events explained by Emmanuel Part 1
Dynamic Events explained by Emmanuel Part 2
Renown Hearts & Dynamic Events vs Questing
Another thing I see is people saying the game isn't immersive which I really don't understand at all. How these Events and how the world is setup makes for the most immersive experience in a MMO I can remember having in a very very long time.
Anyway hope people will actually watch the videos and maybe we can actually have a discussion about this and maybe people can explain more to me why they feel GW2 way of questing is so similar to all the games before.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Comments
You forgot to put in a spoiler alert at the top, at least I assume so, wall of text too long to read... attention span too short... maybe another time.
Edit: wondered where you went, had to of taken you at least an hour to do all that.
i wouldn't say any real spoilers in here just mostly information regarding the system as seen from the people who created it and some examples of players who have played it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
TL:DR it for me, I'll be the judge of that...
sorry no cliffs notes version of this one my I'm afraid
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Thanks Aerowyn!
When I get done with this, you better not be lying to me then. I will be thoroughly dissapointed in you.
from what I have read/seen higher the zones less and less hearts and more and bigger DE's then they have said of course Orr would have on hearts at all.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
lol don't be hatin'
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Can I post my thoughts on DEs before reading all that or is that not allowed?
lol well I don't make the rules.. it is my thread but not my forum you can do what you wish.. but like I said in the OP I mostly wanted to try to understand why some people feel this games questing is so similar to other games and wanted to gives some examples of how the dev's and other players feel it's not.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Wow. Hate is a way of life for you isn't it? You just can't be bothered to respond as a rational human being.
With that attitude you'll never keep this thread in line. Show some ownership to the amount of hatred that will soon envelope this thread like a wild fire. But I thought you wanted thoughts on DEs, not why you think they are similar to other games, guess my points are invalid till I read this wall of text then... damn.
Here I'll save you some trouble, these DEs make you kill some mobs, escort some people and protect some towns. So any people who feel that is your main and only point I already took that from you. All posts past this one are banned from making this point and thus made invalid if done. That being said, I'm sure the shortened version of at least SOME part of that wall of text has something to do with, "eventhough they have similarities in objectives, the quests present it in different ways to make it feel like the quest has meaning and immersion and..." exc.
Aerowyn, hope this helps, if not I tried
ha! i see that a lot and they do talk about that in a couple of the videos. I appreciate the support:P
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
lol so true, like there needs to be another long winded thread about DE's.. but it poses a question so that makes it productive right? My thoughts? I'm sure they'll be fun..we'll see when the game comes out in a week.
Everyone's gonna try it and find out for themselves, it's b2p!
You know Aerowyn when I first started Guild Wars 2, I had done a fair amount of research but that didn't stop me from "muscle memory" type of approaching renown hearts. I instinctively jumped in and hit heart A to Heart B to Heart C in a path I some how made up on my own and hurried thru them without thinking about it.
I'd complete one heart and rush to the next until I realized wait a minute this guard quest continued but I had no indication on my screen that I needed to wait for it... What!!! Events just keep going and progressing.... Oh man. ooooh man!!! something clicked after about 15 hours of that and I went back into the previous zones and looked for other clues of progressive events.
I have to admit when I was playing the game as I had played previous MMO's I felt, same old same old, go do this, bring back this, go collect that, go kill that. It did feel same ol same ol, but for one specific reason. ITS A MMORPG!!!! Of course its going to have tasks for you to do and the same "type of content" but how it was presented was the key for me.
Was I feeling like I had to go to each heart, collect the quests, work thru the required assignment and then move on? NO infact the game doesn't force you to feel that way, I personally from past experience forced myself to do this and nearly ruined my experience from it.
I quickly realized I wanted to play the game without the scout system, and the way ANET originally planned the game. I love finding events on my own and not being hand held. But I also realize it is such a different way of doing things, most people need these systems to teach them ot unlearn previous game mechanics and learn how to play GW2 the way its meant to be played.
Some may learn this, some may take a long time to learn it, others may not learn it at all and end up over catergorizing the game wrongfully.
I also found a lot of people confused Renwown hearts with actual DE's and made the mistake of not staying around at points when they thought certain DE's were over.
Once I learned to pay attention to NPC's, their actions, them talking to me or other NPC's, it opened up the game for me and made me a stupid drooling fan boy!!! :P
AND THEN, and then I read somewhere that they will have a live team specifically to impliment LIVE real time DE's into already existing DE's... That sounded awesome to me.
The amazment DE's have already given me is compounded with the endless potential expandability they bring. I can't wait to experience the webbing effect DE's >_<!!!!!
IamApropos
See where adventure will lead you!
My PC Specs:
i5-3570k oc'ed @4.2GHz
8GB 1600 RAM
GTX670 oc'ed @ 1.25Ghz
Samsung 830 SSD.
I predict that during the launch week, we will be seeing a large number of negative posts going unchallenged i hope the mods are up to the challenge of shutting these types of threads down during this time like they've done for other games I've seen. Ahem.
Aerowyn, you are awesome btw.
i did the exact same thing with the hearts first time I palyed as well. I understand why they added them but also see how it can really effect peoples perception of the games questing as a whole. I also am very interested how the later zones especially Orr will play out and how their real time implementation will work.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Sherman's Gaming
Youtube Content creator for The Elder Scrolls Online
Channel:http://https//www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
i wouldn't say any real spoilers in here just mostly information regarding the system as seen from the people who created it and some examples of players who have played it.
TL:DR it for me, I'll be the judge of that...
Here's the TL:DR version. "I had to save my allowance for 3 months to be able to afford GW2. Now I spend all of my time trying to convince others to make the same purchase, so that I am secure in the money investment I have made."
At least s/he could eventually save up enough money to buy it and wasn't left bitter and trolling Internet forums because s/he felt left out.
See what I did there?That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I wouldn't judge the early DE's too harshly. From what I understand the DE's get more complex as you level up. Not to mention that you are probably running by hidden DE's that you have not discovered. Make sure when you are participating in one that you know the underlying reason for doing it as it may unlock a hidden chain continuation of the DE.