There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
I don't see anything in the store that gives +damage. There are non-store potions that give +damage, but they can be crafted and bought normally.
And what are you going to buy with this gold? Potions you can make already? Non-progression equipment ( remember, the game has zero progression equipment, so getting the best gear stat-wise is not hard). I'm not seeing the pay-to-win. We might be talking about a slight boost before max level, but that's it. Beyond that it will mostly be cosmetic stuff or things you could easily make yourself.
Never seen one gold seller in TSW. Not one.
No there are mystic keys sold to unlock boxes that contain stat boost. Yes they are in game as well., but it SEEMS that chest drop at a much greater rate than keys.
So a slightly faster rate of obtaining 10% boosts to damage that don't stack and last for an hour?
Not ideal, but hardly "paying to win."
Don't stack? With each other? I've seen on this forum people who say you can have all for stat boost up, and they do stack with food and other buffs forsure.
I did not call it p2w. I do believe it crosses the line in several places though. Namely buying gold.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
I thought the End game gear was purchased with tokens earned while performing various tasks?
This questions more towards Creslin, do you think even if gold is easy to translate between gem purchases that it will adversely effect WvW based on this? Or am I completely wrong about the final gear?
There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
I don't see anything in the store that gives +damage. There are non-store potions that give +damage, but they can be crafted and bought normally.
And what are you going to buy with this gold? Potions you can make already? Non-progression equipment ( remember, the game has zero progression equipment, so getting the best gear stat-wise is not hard). I'm not seeing the pay-to-win. We might be talking about a slight boost before max level, but that's it. Beyond that it will mostly be cosmetic stuff or things you could easily make yourself.
Never seen one gold seller in TSW. Not one.
No there are mystic keys sold to unlock boxes that contain stat boost. Yes they are in game as well., but it SEEMS that chest drop at a much greater rate than keys.
So a slightly faster rate of obtaining 10% boosts to damage that don't stack and last for an hour?
Not ideal, but hardly "paying to win."
Don't stack? With each other? I've seen on this forum people who say you can have all for stat boost up, and they do stack with food and other buffs forsure.
I did not call it p2w. I do believe it crosses the line in several places though. Namely buying gold.
Again doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I'm doing 40 extra damage to monsters in PvE? PvE is cooperative, shouldn't you be happy that we're taking down the monster faster together? And people already stated it doesn't work in PvP. And if you so should feel that it isn't "fair" that I'm getting the boost , you can always craft or buy from NPC that boost.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
How can you tell me what I should care about?
I never liked the guy who ebayed his toon in WoW either. I feel in games that I play everyone should be on a level playing field from start to finish. Sure there will always be some who go out the lines, but that going outside the line should not be supported and encourage by the developer imho.
This subject has been literally beaten to death over and over in multiple posts. The op got his answer, now its just folks ranting for the (n*1000)th time.....
Don't stack? With each other? I seen on this forum people who say you can have all for stat boost up, and they do stack with food and other buffs forsure.
A 10% damage boost doesn't stack with itself, I mean. You can't get to a 100% damage boost by using 10 for instance. That would be more like paying to win.
A regen boost, 10% damage boost, 10% armor boost, and 25% speed boost that are all relatively small and can be obtained by anyone just at a lower rate is not that big of a deal. And you still have to find the chests, so it doesn't seem to me you could have these boosts up all the time anyhow. Even if you did, it is still a pretty small difference (and doesn't work in PvP).
Anyone can get these boosts. Let's see, you can get keys for the chest drops from storyline missions, the chest itself, random drops, and from map completion. Assuming the key isn't soulbound, you could farm keys with a character slot. But that would probably not be deemed worth it, because the boost is pretty small and you can get them anyhow. Normal players will just be more careful about how they spend their boosts and some might buy keys off the AH (assuming that's possible).
So no, I don't see how it is that big a deal. It's not an ideal situation, but it isn't something worth making a huge fuss over.
There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
I don't see anything in the store that gives +damage. There are non-store potions that give +damage, but they can be crafted and bought normally.
And what are you going to buy with this gold? Potions you can make already? Non-progression equipment ( remember, the game has zero progression equipment, so getting the best gear stat-wise is not hard). I'm not seeing the pay-to-win. We might be talking about a slight boost before max level, but that's it. Beyond that it will mostly be cosmetic stuff or things you could easily make yourself.
Never seen one gold seller in TSW. Not one.
100% true....0 gold spammers on TSW....dont know what crazy-pants is talking about. there is 0 need for gold spammers which is why there are none
There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
I don't see anything in the store that gives +damage. There are non-store potions that give +damage, but they can be crafted and bought normally.
And what are you going to buy with this gold? Potions you can make already? Non-progression equipment ( remember, the game has zero progression equipment, so getting the best gear stat-wise is not hard). I'm not seeing the pay-to-win. We might be talking about a slight boost before max level, but that's it. Beyond that it will mostly be cosmetic stuff or things you could easily make yourself.
Never seen one gold seller in TSW. Not one.
No there are mystic keys sold to unlock boxes that contain stat boost. Yes they are in game as well., but it SEEMS that chest drop at a much greater rate than keys.
So a slightly faster rate of obtaining 10% boosts to damage that don't stack and last for an hour?
Not ideal, but hardly "paying to win."
Don't stack? With each other? I've seen on this forum people who say you can have all for stat boost up, and they do stack with food and other buffs forsure.
I did not call it p2w. I do believe it crosses the line in several places though. Namely buying gold.
Again doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I'm doing 40 extra damage to monsters in PvE? PvE is cooperative, shouldn't you be happy that we're taking down the monster faster together? And people already stated it doesn't work in PvP. And if you so should feel that it isn't "fair" that I'm getting the boost , you can always craft or buy from NPC that boost.
Yeah we have funamental differences in opinions. Buying gold in anyway shape or form is no good imo.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
How can you tell me what I should care about?
I never liked the guy who ebayed his toon in WoW either. I feel in games that I play everyone should be on a level playing field from start to finish. Sure there will always be some who go out the lines, but that going outside the line should not be supported and encourage by the developer imho.
I'm not telling you what to care about? I'm asking you why you care if I look cooler than you if I have the EXACT same stats as you. And should you care to look just as cool as me, feel free to craft the items yourself or grind them from mobs. Do you get mad at people on the streets because they look better than you because they wear those $2000 shirts and shoes?
Use the search function to find one of the countless similar threads around here, why did you feel the need to create a new one?
Anyway others already posted what is in the shop and how it doesn't offer any kind of advantage, unless you consider "advantage" someone that has more damage reduction while fighting a big world boss together.... yeah that's certainly an advantage. Also, no matter how much reduction or damage or whatever you have, it won't remove the "learn to play" factor. Since the boosts don't work in any form of PVP it is meaningless to call it P2W or even an "advantage". It doesn't change your game if someone else is using them so why bother?
Also, there is no way to get dungeon tokens with those boosters, so the best gear is unobtainable with those.... I don't understand what's the point of having such a discussion again and again and again. Simple, no P2W and no advantage, just that simple.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
How can you tell me what I should care about?
I never liked the guy who ebayed his toon in WoW either. I feel in games that I play everyone should be on a level playing field from start to finish. Sure there will always be some who go out the lines, but that going outside the line should not be supported and encourage by the developer imho.
I'm not telling you what to care about? I'm asking you why you care if I look cooler than you if I have the EXACT same stats as you. And should you care to look just as cool as me, feel free to craft the items yourself or grind them from mobs. Do you get mad at people on the streets because they look better than you because they wear those $2000 shirts and shoes?
Well being in a game where endgame progression is all about cosmetics, yeah it's kinda bullshit you can buy with cash something that is cosmetically "nicer" than the stuff I worked for, or nice as.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
I remember I was playing D3 recently, and I met this dude that had all this awesome gear and could get to the pony level on Inferno.
I was like..."Wow man, that's awesome! How did you do all that??"
So which he replied..."Oh lol, I just bought 2 million gold from some asian dude for $20 and bought this stuff on the AH"
At that point, I lost all desire to play the game. I just didn't see the point anymore. If you can easily just buy your way to the end of the game, then what is the point of even trying to get their on your own? Getting to the end simply isn't special if you can pay your way to it.
Here's another example...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
The big cosmetic stuff are things that can't be traded on the AH. They are BoP.
So what, you use the boost to help in those dungeons or whatever? That's cool. Everyone can do that though since everyone gets boosts. Money fundamentally just affects the RATE at which you get them, since you can open more chests. So normal players will horde them for when they will help the most (dungeons, most likely), and the people that pay will use them more casually.
And let's keep in mind, these boosts ARE small. A mere 10% bonus. It at best gives a little breathing room, but hardly makes hard encounters trivial.
Originally posted by Zeus.CM Shop is cosmetic + some meaningless boosts for exp, drop and karma.
lol
Tell you the truth, I think that selling GOLD in the cash shop is a much more dangerous thing than the exp/drop/karma boosters. At least those are isolated and can only do one thing. Gold can be used to buy ANYTHING ont he auction house.
This essentially means that every single item on the auction house is sold on the CS.
I agree 100%. This is my biggest turn off. I will be holding my nose and buying, because Spvp seems like the only place that is untoched by this stinking cash shop.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
How can you tell me what I should care about?
I never liked the guy who ebayed his toon in WoW either. I feel in games that I play everyone should be on a level playing field from start to finish. Sure there will always be some who go out the lines, but that going outside the line should not be supported and encourage by the developer imho.
I'm not telling you what to care about? I'm asking you why you care if I look cooler than you if I have the EXACT same stats as you. And should you care to look just as cool as me, feel free to craft the items yourself or grind them from mobs. Do you get mad at people on the streets because they look better than you because they wear those $2000 shirts and shoes?
Well being in a game where endgame progression is all about cosmetics, yeah it's kinda bullshit you can buy with cash something that is cosmetically "nicer" than the stuff I worked for, or nice as.
The reality of this statement will depend on the rate of gem->gold and vice-versa. Plus, legendaries cannot be bought and even if you can buy the same grade of level 80 armor as you get from dengeons that doesn't mean it will have the stat allocation or the look you want.
I'll agree with bcbully on this one, the only thing I don't like about the cash shop is the gem>gold trading that could potentially affect WvWvW, never agreed with it and we'll see how the market works but it is an advantage no matter how small it is, if gem>gold trading wasn't there I'd be perfectly fine with it.
On the other hand it doesn't affect me because I won't be doing WvWvW until a month in the game or so.
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
The big cosmetic stuff are things that can't be traded on the AH. They are BoP.
So what, you use the boost to help in those dungeons or whatever? That's cool. Everyone can do that though since everyone gets boosts. Money fundamentally just affects the RATE at which you get them, since you can open more chests. So normal players will horde them for when they will help the most (dungeons, most likely), and the people that pay will use them more casually.
And let's keep in mind, these boosts ARE small. A mere 10% bonus. It at best gives a little breathing room, but hardly makes hard encounters trivial.
Not that big of a deal, imho.
The rest of my post that you snipped out explained why I feel this way...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
In this scenario, the elevator makes climbing the mountain no longer special. Since anyone can easily get to the top, the achievement of getting to the top is diminished. Cosmetic, stat-based...all that stuff doesn't matter in the end. All that matters is the achievement itself. And when you start selling that achievement...it loses some of its magic.
It's just like why a wooden carving your buy from the airport is much less special than a hand-made one you buy from a remote village. The airport carving is mass-produced, common place, anyone can get it. The village one is unique, special, and even finding it represents some achievement. This is the same with P2W. When achievement can be bought...it becomes common place.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
I remember I was playing D3 recently, and I met this dude that had all this awesome gear and could get to the pony level on Inferno.
I was like..."Wow man, that's awesome! How did you do all that??"
So which he replied..."Oh lol, I just bought 2 million gold from some asian dude for $20 and bought this stuff on the AH"
At that point, I lost all desire to play the game. I just didn't see the point anymore. If you can easily just buy your way to the end of the game, then what is the point of even trying to get their on your own? Getting to the end simply isn't special if you can pay your way to it.
Here's another example...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
So lets take your example. You still managed the climb to the mountain without getting any help. That's an achievement. Why should you care if they got by elevator? If you're goal was simply to get to the top of the mountain why not just take the elevator? Because you wanted the achievement of climbing it all by yourself.
Why do people do free fall climbing when its so dangerous? Why not just use a harness and make it a lot easier on themselves? Because it's the achievement.
For your D3 example, sure that person bought that armor, but does that make the person "better" than you? You could still kick his butt in PvP.
Again why should you care, if someone takes the easy way and it doesn't affect you.
There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
WTB>200 skill points so I can get a legendary weapon, anyone selling? Nope, can't buy whatever I want, dang.
And yeah, TSW has gold sellers, unless the only time in the history of the game that they appeared was during the 3 days I played the free trial, or maybe I was just imagining that, in which case, substitute WoW for TSW and re-read.
+ damage is not pay to win exactly how I described: it only works in PvE vs. mobs, all loot and exp are individual so there is no kill stealing, someone doing more damage to mobs helps everyone and does not make the person using it a "winner" in any way.
I've seen real pay to win games, GW2 isn't one, if you argue otherwise you'll need to modify the definition of "win" to mean "have a slightly easier time". Anyone who has to change the definition of words to fit their own version of reality has limited credibility to me, since they are speaking their own made up language I have no idea what they really mean.
I'm not telling you what to care about? I'm asking you why you care if I look cooler than you if I have the EXACT same stats as you. And should you care to look just as cool as me, feel free to craft the items yourself or grind them from mobs. Do you get mad at people on the streets because they look better than you because they wear those $2000 shirts and shoes?
Well being in a game where endgame progression is all about cosmetics, yeah it's kinda bullshit you can buy with cash something that is cosmetically "nicer" than the stuff I worked for, or nice as.
Actually kind of sad how little you know about the game. The only "cool looking" gear that you can purchase with RL money is the crafted gear/normal mob drop gear.
Drops from dungeon bosses are BoP, dungeon gear bought with tokens are untradeable, legendary gear is untradeable. Skins from sPvP is untradeable. Karma event armor is untradeable.
The normal NPC gear and normal mob drop gear look like crap. So yeah... first please learn more about the game before trying to troll...
If you manage to get a legendary no-one is going to "buy" anything as nice from AH.
There isn't anything that could be considered pay to win by any sane person. The ability to sell gems for gold and vice versa won't change anything except to eliminate gold farming spambots, which are quite rampant in TSW for example.
Are you saying TSW has gold farmers or spam bots? There is not a single one and never has been. Stop commenting about a game you've never played.
Exp and especially drop rate boosts and +damage ARE pay to win by many people. When is +damage NOT pay to win? You guys are just trying to convince yourselves otherwise.
Furthermore, the fact that you can buy gems for gold is INSTANTLY pay to win since you can buy gems, sell them, and then buy whatever you want in the game.
WTB>200 skill points so I can get a legendary weapon, anyone selling? Nope, can't buy whatever I want, dang.
And yeah, TSW has gold sellers, unless the only time in the history of the game that they appeared was during the 3 days I played the free trial, or maybe I was just imagining that, in which case, substitute WoW for TSW and re-read.
+ damage is not pay to win exactly how I described: it only works in PvE vs. mobs, all loot and exp are individual so there is no kill stealing, someone doing more damage to mobs helps everyone and does not make the person using it a "winner" in any way.
I've seen real pay to win games, GW2 isn't one, if you argue otherwise you'll need to modify the definition of "win" to mean "have a slightly easier time". Anyone who has to change the definition of words to fit their own version of reality has limited credibility to me, since they are speaking their own made up language I have no idea what they really mean.
This is an INcredible post on many different levels.
The more you say TSW has gold sellers, the more you lose that credibility you speak of.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
The big cosmetic stuff are things that can't be traded on the AH. They are BoP.
So what, you use the boost to help in those dungeons or whatever? That's cool. Everyone can do that though since everyone gets boosts. Money fundamentally just affects the RATE at which you get them, since you can open more chests. So normal players will horde them for when they will help the most (dungeons, most likely), and the people that pay will use them more casually.
And let's keep in mind, these boosts ARE small. A mere 10% bonus. It at best gives a little breathing room, but hardly makes hard encounters trivial.
Not that big of a deal, imho.
The rest of my post that you snipped out explained why I feel this way...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
In this scenario, the elevator makes climbing the mountain no longer special. Since anyone can easily get to the top, the achievement of getting to the top is diminished. Cosmetic, stat-based...all that stuff doesn't matter in the end. All that matters is the achievement itself. And when you start selling that achievement...it loses some of its magic.
It's just like why a wooden carving your buy from the airport is much less special than a hand-made one you buy from a remote village. The airport carving is mass-produced, common place, anyone can get it. The village one is unique, special, and even finding it represents some achievement. This is the same with P2W. When achievement can be bought...it becomes common place.
What achievement are you talking about?
Dungeons? Everyone can easily save their boosts for that. You don't need to pay money.
Leveling? That's not an achievement.
I'm unclear where the problem is, especially when a boost is so small. It isn't like a P2W game where it makes you a ton better than everyone else. But again, everyone can get this small boost and use it on the hardest things (which will still require skill to do).
You act like dungeon sets will be sold. They won't. Or that these boosts trivialize encounters. They clearly won't. Or that using them on the hardest stuff is something you can only do if you pay money. Not true.
Don't give me a story. Say what part of the game they ruin.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
The big cosmetic stuff are things that can't be traded on the AH. They are BoP.
So what, you use the boost to help in those dungeons or whatever? That's cool. Everyone can do that though since everyone gets boosts. Money fundamentally just affects the RATE at which you get them, since you can open more chests. So normal players will horde them for when they will help the most (dungeons, most likely), and the people that pay will use them more casually.
And let's keep in mind, these boosts ARE small. A mere 10% bonus. It at best gives a little breathing room, but hardly makes hard encounters trivial.
Not that big of a deal, imho.
The rest of my post that you snipped out explained why I feel this way...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
In this scenario, the elevator makes climbing the mountain no longer special. Since anyone can easily get to the top, the achievement of getting to the top is diminished. Cosmetic, stat-based...all that stuff doesn't matter in the end. All that matters is the achievement itself. And when you start selling that achievement...it loses some of its magic.
It's just like why a wooden carving your buy from the airport is much less special than a hand-made one you buy from a remote village. The airport carving is mass-produced, common place, anyone can get it. The village one is unique, special, and even finding it represents some achievement. This is the same with P2W. When achievement can be bought...it becomes common place.
What achievement are you talking about?
Dungeons? Everyone can easily save their boosts for that. You don't need to pay money.
Leveling? That's not an achievement.
I'm unclear where the problem is, especially when a boost is so small. It isn't like a P2W game where it makes you a ton better than everyone else. But again, everyone can get this small boost and use it on the hardest things (which will still require skill to do).
You act like dungeon sets will be sold. They won't. Or that these boosts trivialize encounters. They clearly won't. Or that using them on the hardest stuff is something you can only do if you pay money. Not true.
Don't give me a story. Say what part of the game they ruin.
Wonder if they've balanced these "hardest things" around those boost.
Comments
Don't stack? With each other? I've seen on this forum people who say you can have all for stat boost up, and they do stack with food and other buffs forsure.
I did not call it p2w. I do believe it crosses the line in several places though. Namely buying gold.
But it still doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I get that awesome looking armor if it has more or less the same stats as yours? The only time you should care is if it had higher stats or something that clearly gave me an advantage against you in PvP. And since in PvP everyone is instantly level 80, its skill that matters not gear.
I thought the End game gear was purchased with tokens earned while performing various tasks?
This questions more towards Creslin, do you think even if gold is easy to translate between gem purchases that it will adversely effect WvW based on this? Or am I completely wrong about the final gear?
Again doesn't make any sense. Why should you care if I'm doing 40 extra damage to monsters in PvE? PvE is cooperative, shouldn't you be happy that we're taking down the monster faster together? And people already stated it doesn't work in PvP. And if you so should feel that it isn't "fair" that I'm getting the boost , you can always craft or buy from NPC that boost.
How can you tell me what I should care about?
I never liked the guy who ebayed his toon in WoW either. I feel in games that I play everyone should be on a level playing field from start to finish. Sure there will always be some who go out the lines, but that going outside the line should not be supported and encourage by the developer imho.
Can we lock please?
This subject has been literally beaten to death over and over in multiple posts. The op got his answer, now its just folks ranting for the (n*1000)th time.....
A 10% damage boost doesn't stack with itself, I mean. You can't get to a 100% damage boost by using 10 for instance. That would be more like paying to win.
A regen boost, 10% damage boost, 10% armor boost, and 25% speed boost that are all relatively small and can be obtained by anyone just at a lower rate is not that big of a deal. And you still have to find the chests, so it doesn't seem to me you could have these boosts up all the time anyhow. Even if you did, it is still a pretty small difference (and doesn't work in PvP).
Anyone can get these boosts. Let's see, you can get keys for the chest drops from storyline missions, the chest itself, random drops, and from map completion. Assuming the key isn't soulbound, you could farm keys with a character slot. But that would probably not be deemed worth it, because the boost is pretty small and you can get them anyhow. Normal players will just be more careful about how they spend their boosts and some might buy keys off the AH (assuming that's possible).
So no, I don't see how it is that big a deal. It's not an ideal situation, but it isn't something worth making a huge fuss over.
100% true....0 gold spammers on TSW....dont know what crazy-pants is talking about. there is 0 need for gold spammers which is why there are none
Yeah we have funamental differences in opinions. Buying gold in anyway shape or form is no good imo.
I'm not telling you what to care about? I'm asking you why you care if I look cooler than you if I have the EXACT same stats as you. And should you care to look just as cool as me, feel free to craft the items yourself or grind them from mobs. Do you get mad at people on the streets because they look better than you because they wear those $2000 shirts and shoes?
Use the search function to find one of the countless similar threads around here, why did you feel the need to create a new one?
Anyway others already posted what is in the shop and how it doesn't offer any kind of advantage, unless you consider "advantage" someone that has more damage reduction while fighting a big world boss together.... yeah that's certainly an advantage. Also, no matter how much reduction or damage or whatever you have, it won't remove the "learn to play" factor. Since the boosts don't work in any form of PVP it is meaningless to call it P2W or even an "advantage". It doesn't change your game if someone else is using them so why bother?
Also, there is no way to get dungeon tokens with those boosters, so the best gear is unobtainable with those.... I don't understand what's the point of having such a discussion again and again and again. Simple, no P2W and no advantage, just that simple.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Well being in a game where endgame progression is all about cosmetics, yeah it's kinda bullshit you can buy with cash something that is cosmetically "nicer" than the stuff I worked for, or nice as.
Because it trivializes the achievement associated with that gear.
I remember I was playing D3 recently, and I met this dude that had all this awesome gear and could get to the pony level on Inferno.
I was like..."Wow man, that's awesome! How did you do all that??"
So which he replied..."Oh lol, I just bought 2 million gold from some asian dude for $20 and bought this stuff on the AH"
At that point, I lost all desire to play the game. I just didn't see the point anymore. If you can easily just buy your way to the end of the game, then what is the point of even trying to get their on your own? Getting to the end simply isn't special if you can pay your way to it.
Here's another example...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
It's only really a problem if gold is used as a power balancer OR if it upsets the economy.
Neither seems to be the case in GW2.
The big cosmetic stuff are things that can't be traded on the AH. They are BoP.
So what, you use the boost to help in those dungeons or whatever? That's cool. Everyone can do that though since everyone gets boosts. Money fundamentally just affects the RATE at which you get them, since you can open more chests. So normal players will horde them for when they will help the most (dungeons, most likely), and the people that pay will use them more casually.
And let's keep in mind, these boosts ARE small. A mere 10% bonus. It at best gives a little breathing room, but hardly makes hard encounters trivial.
Not that big of a deal, imho.
The reality of this statement will depend on the rate of gem->gold and vice-versa. Plus, legendaries cannot be bought and even if you can buy the same grade of level 80 armor as you get from dengeons that doesn't mean it will have the stat allocation or the look you want.
I'll agree with bcbully on this one, the only thing I don't like about the cash shop is the gem>gold trading that could potentially affect WvWvW, never agreed with it and we'll see how the market works but it is an advantage no matter how small it is, if gem>gold trading wasn't there I'd be perfectly fine with it.
On the other hand it doesn't affect me because I won't be doing WvWvW until a month in the game or so.
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
The rest of my post that you snipped out explained why I feel this way...
Imagine you are at the bottom of a huge mountain. You spend weeks climbing the mountain in the bitter cold, finally to reach the top utterly exhausted. But when you get to the top, you see a bunch of people having a party at a cozy cabin. You ask one of them how they all got up here, and they reply..."Oh we just took the elevator on the other side of the mountain."
In this scenario, the elevator makes climbing the mountain no longer special. Since anyone can easily get to the top, the achievement of getting to the top is diminished. Cosmetic, stat-based...all that stuff doesn't matter in the end. All that matters is the achievement itself. And when you start selling that achievement...it loses some of its magic.
It's just like why a wooden carving your buy from the airport is much less special than a hand-made one you buy from a remote village. The airport carving is mass-produced, common place, anyone can get it. The village one is unique, special, and even finding it represents some achievement. This is the same with P2W. When achievement can be bought...it becomes common place.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
So lets take your example. You still managed the climb to the mountain without getting any help. That's an achievement. Why should you care if they got by elevator? If you're goal was simply to get to the top of the mountain why not just take the elevator? Because you wanted the achievement of climbing it all by yourself.
Why do people do free fall climbing when its so dangerous? Why not just use a harness and make it a lot easier on themselves? Because it's the achievement.
For your D3 example, sure that person bought that armor, but does that make the person "better" than you? You could still kick his butt in PvP.
Again why should you care, if someone takes the easy way and it doesn't affect you.
WTB>200 skill points so I can get a legendary weapon, anyone selling? Nope, can't buy whatever I want, dang.
And yeah, TSW has gold sellers, unless the only time in the history of the game that they appeared was during the 3 days I played the free trial, or maybe I was just imagining that, in which case, substitute WoW for TSW and re-read.
+ damage is not pay to win exactly how I described: it only works in PvE vs. mobs, all loot and exp are individual so there is no kill stealing, someone doing more damage to mobs helps everyone and does not make the person using it a "winner" in any way.
I've seen real pay to win games, GW2 isn't one, if you argue otherwise you'll need to modify the definition of "win" to mean "have a slightly easier time". Anyone who has to change the definition of words to fit their own version of reality has limited credibility to me, since they are speaking their own made up language I have no idea what they really mean.
Actually kind of sad how little you know about the game. The only "cool looking" gear that you can purchase with RL money is the crafted gear/normal mob drop gear.
Drops from dungeon bosses are BoP, dungeon gear bought with tokens are untradeable, legendary gear is untradeable. Skins from sPvP is untradeable. Karma event armor is untradeable.
The normal NPC gear and normal mob drop gear look like crap. So yeah... first please learn more about the game before trying to troll...
If you manage to get a legendary no-one is going to "buy" anything as nice from AH.
This is an INcredible post on many different levels.
The more you say TSW has gold sellers, the more you lose that credibility you speak of.
What achievement are you talking about?
Dungeons? Everyone can easily save their boosts for that. You don't need to pay money.
Leveling? That's not an achievement.
I'm unclear where the problem is, especially when a boost is so small. It isn't like a P2W game where it makes you a ton better than everyone else. But again, everyone can get this small boost and use it on the hardest things (which will still require skill to do).
You act like dungeon sets will be sold. They won't. Or that these boosts trivialize encounters. They clearly won't. Or that using them on the hardest stuff is something you can only do if you pay money. Not true.
Don't give me a story. Say what part of the game they ruin.
Wonder if they've balanced these "hardest things" around those boost.
anyways I'm out this thrread. Gold buying sucks.