The mediocre success of TSW has nothing to do with setting IMO. I think that what is being shown here is that themeparks have reached their limit as far as audience goes. I played TSW beta and tried to play the free weekend. I simply could not get into it becuase I am tired to go here, kill that etc. over and over again. Themeparks are boring for me anymore and I don't care what flavor they come in.
If you are a thempark fan, there is little reason to play any other game other than the big ones- WoW and GW2 because in reality you are always playing the same game with a different skin.
It's too narrow-minded to blame this all on themepark design. What's the alternative? Sandbox? Developers don't go that route for a reason: it doesn't sell.
Actually, temporary layoffs this late in the year aren't that unusual for many companies, in many industries. It goes like this:
Lay off a few people towards the end of the year
because of this, you save some money on the end of year budget
Because of that, you look better to your investors, and they hand you more money
Which you use to re-hire the old employees. If they're lucky, for their old rate.
All the same, It's not something anyone wants to see ever, and I feel bad for FC's employees.
Oh and as a GW2 fan: Dear other GW2 fans: A post about people losing their jobs is never the place to spout hate. Try not to make the rest of us look like slavering idiots, thanks.
Originally posted by Jaedor As I understand it, layoffs shortly after a game launches is standard practice in the industry. But it's never fun and I hope it's very temporary for most of these folks. TSW is a great game.
This is exactly what the SWTOR fanboys said a month ago. Just sayin.
not to be jerk, ...i like and have an active sub to TSW...
but....
"ArenaNet is Hiring!
We're actively looking for programmers, designers, and artists to join our world class team. If you're passionate about building online worlds, we'd love to talk to you!"
from the GW2 website. maybe some of the talent can find a job there, just sayin...
What does this really mean? Game companies (or specifically the publishers) have become greedy to the point that rather then keeping workers, after a production is done they will instead fire them. Its sad that the game industry has shifted into greed much like the movie industry.
"We want profit, so lets make games" is far different from "We want to make games, and we will make profit as a bonus!". I hope people realize that creativity is harmed by looking at money. Greed really spoils anything that is good and makes things so much worst.
Its unfortunate. I have never heard of "temorary layoffs", if I were one of the lay-offs I would not count on the temporary part.
I expect them to go f2p very soon to try and get some revenue. Its obvious they are scrambling and they might be getting some revenue but not enough to compensate for the salaries.
I fear their plans for extra content at a high and quality rate are also jeoperdized. I still don't understand why all of these mmos that are coming out keep putting a price plus a sub on their games. Its obvious the economy is not well and players are getting very picky about what they will pay a sub for, besides the fact that the market value for similar, if not better, games is a lower price. They have to get their act together and either come up with mmos that commend a sub or just go f2p.
Originally posted by Eir_S Not to be cheeky, but GW2 and MoP will make those layoffs permanent.
(OT: And another GW2 fan comes in to start a flame war.)
This is sad news. More proof that the P2P model is gone and there is only room left for F2P. I just hope it's only that and not the beginning of the end of the genre.
Game certainly doesn't deserve this. There was some real creative stuff in this one.
No, TSW is not a P2P model, It's a hybrid. And just for this reason alone, I want to see TSW fail. I don't ever want to see another AAA title MMO come out and think they are worth charging a Boxed fee, Sub fee and then a full fledged in-game item store.
NO %#^* WAY!
If I am paying a Sub, I want equal opportunity. I don't care if it's just a pair of cosmetic sunglasses. If I'm paying 15/mo, there'd better be a way in game for me to acquire them without dropping 10 bucks more.
Funcom has had greedy business models long before TSW came around and they have only benefited Funcom at the expense of the customer.
Yeah I said I wanted to see TSW fail. No, I'm not at all happy about people losing their jobs, but Funcom is a shady dealer. And I'm sorry, but if they can only employ people at the cost of ripping off their customer, then sorry, my opinion holds. The general public is better served without the Funcoms out there.
Originally posted by Eir_S Not to be cheeky, but GW2 and MoP will make those layoffs permanent.
(OT: And another GW2 fan comes in to start a flame war.)
This is sad news. More proof that the P2P model is gone and there is only room left for F2P. I just hope it's only that and not the beginning of the end of the genre.
Game certainly doesn't deserve this. There was some real creative stuff in this one.
No, TSW is not a P2P model, It's a hybrid. And just for this reason alone, I want to see TSW fail. I don't ever want to see another AAA title MMO come out and think they are worth charging a Boxed fee, Sub fee and then a full fledged in-game item store.
NO %#^* WAY!
If I am paying a Sub, I want equal opportunity. I don't care if it's just a pair of cosmetic sunglasses. If I'm paying 15/mo, there'd better be a way in game for me to acquire them without dropping 10 bucks more.
temporary layoffs mean they are being released from their responsibilites temporarily . they will be rehired when the company moves to a new project .possibly the longest journey 3
Originally posted by Eir_S Not to be cheeky, but GW2 and MoP will make those layoffs permanent.
(OT: And another GW2 fan comes in to start a flame war.)
This is sad news. More proof that the P2P model is gone and there is only room left for F2P. I just hope it's only that and not the beginning of the end of the genre.
Game certainly doesn't deserve this. There was some real creative stuff in this one.
No, TSW is not a P2P model, It's a hybrid. And just for this reason alone, I want to see TSW fail. I don't ever want to see another AAA title MMO come out and think they are worth charging a Boxed fee, Sub fee and then a full fledged in-game item store.
NO %#^* WAY!
If I am paying a Sub, I want equal opportunity. I don't care if it's just a pair of cosmetic sunglasses. If I'm paying 15/mo, there'd better be a way in game for me to acquire them without dropping 10 bucks more.
Funcom has had greedy business models long before TSW came around and they have only benefited Funcom at the expense of the customer.
Yeah I said I wanted to see TSW fail. No, I'm not at all happy about people losing their jobs, but Funcom is a shady dealer. And I'm sorry, but if they can only employ people at the cost of ripping off their customer, then sorry, my opinion holds. The general public is better served without the Funcoms out there.
I agree with the cash grab feel the game has, I like the game play, but the limited feel you get while paying a full subscription is unacceptable.
Three measley character slots, limited equipment and gear, all while paying a sub fee? then a cash shop on top of that, not a good idea at all. These games with limited features are doomed if they try and bilk people for subs and ingame shops.
I have no problem with a sub but it better be full featured, eight or more character slots, steady content and everything els you would expect for monthly cash support.
Looking at Funcom's past track record's, I'm not amazed at all that Funcom laid off a big portion of it's employees. The Secret World was a good game but it failed in some major areas, in my personal opinion. I'm not going to go into details though, because I don't feel like arguing.
People are so naive, here is what happened/is happening,
Funcom has had a slash and burn approach to gaming since the release of AoC.
TSW was never intended to be a subscription based MMORPG, it was intended to be a F2P all along. However they release the game as a subscription based MMORPG so that Funcom can take two bites of the cherry. They make fast box sales, maybe sell a few months subscriptions and when numbers drop below a set amount freemium is announced.
Only this time all the elements for F2P with a cash shop are already in place at launch.
As for the staff being laid off, Funcom doesn't require them anymore to keep TSW trundling along and monitor the cash shop.
The name "Funcom" is synonymous with "Slash and Burn".
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Wondering what schools have this "specialist", that always solves economic problems with layoffs ob OTHERS. That have usually contributed ZERO to situation. I guess one do not need any school at all to solve problems with layoffs.. Maybe shouls always be literaly kicked to the street the one who proposes layoffs for the first. And never be allowed to get any job at all. Then I think, but of course not only in gaming industry, wold would start to change to better.
Why are so many people surprised by TSW's performance? I'm not. Funcom is not well liked by many MMO players because of AO and AoC. Second - TSW is a mediorce game at best and is extremely shallow. It is a niche game at most and will never see huge subs. Funcom is better off making this game f2p as soon as possible. Maybe if it was a better game with more substance it would be worth a monthly sub, but the game just doesn't have it, and I doubt the sour taste many gamers have for Funcom is not going to disappear any time soon. So yeah, going f2p looks like their only choice.
The problem i see with TSW is that it wasn't ready for launch it should have been delayed a week or two.
My reasons for canceling my sub after buying the game and thinking it was going to be decent are.
1. F2P + P2P Model???? not my style of game even if the main part of the game is free it lacked customization.
2. I was being asked to pay for clothing at the default screen just to change my color of pants I wear?
3. I was not offered any customization choices a P2P subscriber.
4. Customer Support did suck I had to create a new account because they couldn't apply my game code to my previous account I had during beta.
5. Lack of Customization such as face choices, and hair for that matter.
Due to these reasons the game should have been delayed. Yes the game is better than Fallen Earth given the fact that Fallen Earth is run by gamers first, has lots of griefers/trolls, and hackers. But beyond that the game takes too long to load for my computer, and it just gets old fast especially with the lack of customization on my character it just isn't my game.
Instead if it was delayed a bit longer they could have done so much more, but from what I can tell the game will be going completely FREE 2 Play before long.
Game-companies aren't going to admit this because it's PR but they've taken a hit from the economy too. Besides the constant cash-grab hit-and-runs and the greed(half-done games, ignoring,player-feedback which is paying for the game(It's free Debugging from the consumers!), over-all lazyness, poor-management, ect) doesn't help much either.
Games once use to be entertainments that were played for fun with the players in-mind. But more and more i've seen our games being turned into PR Hollywood Pillars than anything else. Their looked at now as big-cash cow tanks to rank in as many people as possible in a initial money-hit, rather than focusing on elements that made games fun in the first place that would draw people to the games(and keep them over-time). That's why today there's still some SNES games out there now that are considered "cult hits" as old as they are compared to these recent MMO type flops.
Players just aren't coming out in bee-hives as much throwing money at these games anymore. They have jobs to work, some of them have lost their jobs. Some of them aren't getting that spend-spend money that they once gotten before. The game-industry is no longer a place where real gamers gathered to play games and made them.
It's becoming a little more apparent the game-world is now turning into a disfunction of real-life politics and corporation greed. Why should a player continue to invest money in companies(bad reputation) or games(poorly made) that are unsatisfory that's asking for more and more money? Hahaha!
TSW on Steam(when it was suppose to be one of those glorious "P2P" good games) already means that this game is on it's way out in the loosing streak. Just because it has P2P slapped on it doesn't actually mean the game is good!
Interesting. I feel sorry for those people who were laid off because going thru some similar things right now. But have to say this is the result of requiring a subscription to play and possibly using the 2004 model for gaming. The economy just can't handle it. Once all of the annual passes have expired in WoW you will see what we mean by that.
Originally posted by Teala Why are so many people surprised by TSW's performance? I'm not. Funcom is not well liked by many MMO players because of AO and AoC. Second - TSW is a mediorce game at best and is extremely shallow. It is a niche game at most and will never see huge subs. Funcom is better off making this game f2p as soon as possible. Maybe if it was a better game with more substance it would be worth a monthly sub, but the game just doesn't have it, and I doubt the sour taste many gamers have for Funcom is not going to disappear any time soon. So yeah, going f2p looks like their only choice.
I don't get why TSW has a rep here for being a decent MMO. People didn't buy it because of how blatantly mediocre it proved to be, during open beta. How many people signed up for those betas? vs how many boxes did they sell? This is not a case of people not giving the game a chance.
Even AOC was a much better game, which just might explain why even with all its major issues, it sold a lot better.
I think the MMORPG community tends to judge games based on things like novelty, and give kudos for trying something different, which I applaud and all, but not to the point of losing sight of quality and fun gameplay.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The problem i see with TSW is that it wasn't ready for launch it should have been delayed a week or two.
My reasons for canceling my sub after buying the game and thinking it was going to be decent are.
1. F2P + P2P Model???? not my style of game even if the main part of the game is free it lacked customization.
2. I was being asked to pay for clothing at the default screen just to change my color of pants I wear?
3. I was not offered any customization choices a P2P subscriber.
4. Customer Support did suck I had to create a new account because they couldn't apply my game code to my previous account I had during beta.
5. Lack of Customization such as face choices, and hair for that matter.
Due to these reasons the game should have been delayed. Yes the game is better than Fallen Earth given the fact that Fallen Earth is run by gamers first, has lots of griefers/trolls, and hackers. But beyond that the game takes too long to load for my computer, and it just gets old fast especially with the lack of customization on my character it just isn't my game.
Instead if it was delayed a bit longer they could have done so much more, but from what I can tell the game will be going completely FREE 2 Play before long.
I don't know about you..But It seems you didnt look around long enough..
1, The customisation at characther creation is limited, but the real customisation comes within the game, with all the diffrent clothing options in London, I rarely see anyone that looks the same. Infact it's better than ANY other game I have ever played , due to players not wearing any armor or such tied to specific levels or quests. Yes there is the "online game store" and it sells even more clothing to spice things even further, not going to argue these coudnt be in game and that it feels bit cheap, but they are optional and has no inpact on gameplay at all.
2 There will be a barber and plastic surgent in game at the end of this month, I believe..
3 As for the starter clothing, well u use those for a few play sessions , again go to the HUGE clothing store in LONDON and deck yourself out, all clothes come with diffrent colors as well, and there really is LOTS of clothes there.
Comments
It's too narrow-minded to blame this all on themepark design. What's the alternative? Sandbox? Developers don't go that route for a reason: it doesn't sell.
Actually, temporary layoffs this late in the year aren't that unusual for many companies, in many industries. It goes like this:
This is exactly what the SWTOR fanboys said a month ago. Just sayin.
not to be jerk, ...i like and have an active sub to TSW...
but....
"ArenaNet is Hiring!
We're actively looking for programmers, designers, and artists to join our world class team. If you're passionate about building online worlds, we'd love to talk to you!"
from the GW2 website. maybe some of the talent can find a job there, just sayin...
Temporary lay offs..Good tiiiiimes!
Ain't we lucky we got um.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
What does this really mean? Game companies (or specifically the publishers) have become greedy to the point that rather then keeping workers, after a production is done they will instead fire them. Its sad that the game industry has shifted into greed much like the movie industry.
"We want profit, so lets make games" is far different from "We want to make games, and we will make profit as a bonus!". I hope people realize that creativity is harmed by looking at money. Greed really spoils anything that is good and makes things so much worst.
Its unfortunate. I have never heard of "temorary layoffs", if I were one of the lay-offs I would not count on the temporary part.
I expect them to go f2p very soon to try and get some revenue. Its obvious they are scrambling and they might be getting some revenue but not enough to compensate for the salaries.
I fear their plans for extra content at a high and quality rate are also jeoperdized. I still don't understand why all of these mmos that are coming out keep putting a price plus a sub on their games. Its obvious the economy is not well and players are getting very picky about what they will pay a sub for, besides the fact that the market value for similar, if not better, games is a lower price. They have to get their act together and either come up with mmos that commend a sub or just go f2p.
No,
TSW is not a P2P model, It's a hybrid. And just for this reason alone, I want to see TSW fail. I don't ever want to see another AAA title MMO come out and think they are worth charging a Boxed fee, Sub fee and then a full fledged in-game item store.
NO %#^* WAY!
If I am paying a Sub, I want equal opportunity. I don't care if it's just a pair of cosmetic sunglasses. If I'm paying 15/mo, there'd better be a way in game for me to acquire them without dropping 10 bucks more.
Funcom has had greedy business models long before TSW came around and they have only benefited Funcom at the expense of the customer.
Yeah I said I wanted to see TSW fail. No, I'm not at all happy about people losing their jobs, but Funcom is a shady dealer. And I'm sorry, but if they can only employ people at the cost of ripping off their customer, then sorry, my opinion holds. The general public is better served without the Funcoms out there.
That actually makes sense.
I agree with the cash grab feel the game has, I like the game play, but the limited feel you get while paying a full subscription is unacceptable.
Three measley character slots, limited equipment and gear, all while paying a sub fee? then a cash shop on top of that, not a good idea at all. These games with limited features are doomed if they try and bilk people for subs and ingame shops.
I have no problem with a sub but it better be full featured, eight or more character slots, steady content and everything els you would expect for monthly cash support.
People are so naive, here is what happened/is happening,
Funcom has had a slash and burn approach to gaming since the release of AoC.
TSW was never intended to be a subscription based MMORPG, it was intended to be a F2P all along. However they release the game as a subscription based MMORPG so that Funcom can take two bites of the cherry. They make fast box sales, maybe sell a few months subscriptions and when numbers drop below a set amount freemium is announced.
Only this time all the elements for F2P with a cash shop are already in place at launch.
As for the staff being laid off, Funcom doesn't require them anymore to keep TSW trundling along and monitor the cash shop.
The name "Funcom" is synonymous with "Slash and Burn".
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
EA - see SWTOR
Funcom - see Age of Conan
Now uhm... isn't GW2 published by NCsoft?
The problem i see with TSW is that it wasn't ready for launch it should have been delayed a week or two.
My reasons for canceling my sub after buying the game and thinking it was going to be decent are.
1. F2P + P2P Model???? not my style of game even if the main part of the game is free it lacked customization.
2. I was being asked to pay for clothing at the default screen just to change my color of pants I wear?
3. I was not offered any customization choices a P2P subscriber.
4. Customer Support did suck I had to create a new account because they couldn't apply my game code to my previous account I had during beta.
5. Lack of Customization such as face choices, and hair for that matter.
Due to these reasons the game should have been delayed. Yes the game is better than Fallen Earth given the fact that Fallen Earth is run by gamers first, has lots of griefers/trolls, and hackers. But beyond that the game takes too long to load for my computer, and it just gets old fast especially with the lack of customization on my character it just isn't my game.
Instead if it was delayed a bit longer they could have done so much more, but from what I can tell the game will be going completely FREE 2 Play before long.
Game-companies aren't going to admit this because it's PR but they've taken a hit from the economy too. Besides the constant cash-grab hit-and-runs and the greed(half-done games, ignoring,player-feedback which is paying for the game(It's free Debugging from the consumers!), over-all lazyness, poor-management, ect) doesn't help much either.
Games once use to be entertainments that were played for fun with the players in-mind. But more and more i've seen our games being turned into PR Hollywood Pillars than anything else. Their looked at now as big-cash cow tanks to rank in as many people as possible in a initial money-hit, rather than focusing on elements that made games fun in the first place that would draw people to the games(and keep them over-time). That's why today there's still some SNES games out there now that are considered "cult hits" as old as they are compared to these recent MMO type flops.
Players just aren't coming out in bee-hives as much throwing money at these games anymore. They have jobs to work, some of them have lost their jobs. Some of them aren't getting that spend-spend money that they once gotten before. The game-industry is no longer a place where real gamers gathered to play games and made them.
It's becoming a little more apparent the game-world is now turning into a disfunction of real-life politics and corporation greed. Why should a player continue to invest money in companies(bad reputation) or games(poorly made) that are unsatisfory that's asking for more and more money? Hahaha!
TSW on Steam(when it was suppose to be one of those glorious "P2P" good games) already means that this game is on it's way out in the loosing streak. Just because it has P2P slapped on it doesn't actually mean the game is good!
Yep it is, but it's developed by Anet. BIG BIG difference there bub. You'll see why once the numbers are in at launch.
I don't get why TSW has a rep here for being a decent MMO. People didn't buy it because of how blatantly mediocre it proved to be, during open beta. How many people signed up for those betas? vs how many boxes did they sell? This is not a case of people not giving the game a chance.
Even AOC was a much better game, which just might explain why even with all its major issues, it sold a lot better.
I think the MMORPG community tends to judge games based on things like novelty, and give kudos for trying something different, which I applaud and all, but not to the point of losing sight of quality and fun gameplay.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
True dat.
I don't know about you..But It seems you didnt look around long enough..
1, The customisation at characther creation is limited, but the real customisation comes within the game, with all the diffrent clothing options in London, I rarely see anyone that looks the same. Infact it's better than ANY other game I have ever played , due to players not wearing any armor or such tied to specific levels or quests. Yes there is the "online game store" and it sells even more clothing to spice things even further, not going to argue these coudnt be in game and that it feels bit cheap, but they are optional and has no inpact on gameplay at all.
2 There will be a barber and plastic surgent in game at the end of this month, I believe..
3 As for the starter clothing, well u use those for a few play sessions , again go to the HUGE clothing store in LONDON and deck yourself out, all clothes come with diffrent colors as well, and there really is LOTS of clothes there.
SWTOR was also developed by BioWare.