Some of you people really need to make up your mind. Here we are in a thread about innovation, on a game that is doing a lot of things differently, criticising it for not doing things the same. Really?
Yes really, I predicted exactly these complaints months, maybe years ago. While some people welcome change, others are confused by it. Sadly, some of them became the same people since January.
What did GW2 Truly Innovate for this game? You cant say DE because Rift has those...
I was in Queen's Dale for a couple of days checking out different classes and saw how the bandits tried to poison the town waters, burn the water pipes, conquer a mill, saw a bull that had to be driven back to it's pen, centaurs attacking a fort etc etc. None of them succeeded because of the initial rush, but one morning when I logged and there was few people online the bandits actually HAD poisoned the water, and that resulted in the crop going bad and turning into some weird slime creatures.
What I see in Rift is random telly-ports appearing here and there pouring a bunch of mobs on people so they can kill them. Even Warhammer got the basics right better than Rift with the static PQ-events. GW2 can be called innovation since they have added and improved on the system.
When I type the word innovation into a translater it says "to better" or "to improve and upgrade upon" it does not say "make something awesome out of thin air that no one ever thought about before even in this time when everything has been already done in one shape or another".
But whether DE's are better than Rifts is simply a matter of perspective and taste. Personally, I like the Rifts better because they *aren't* storylines. Storylines can be great the first time you play them, but on subsequent play throughs they actually reduce immersion. You know you've talked to Sue the Apple Vendor 12 times, but she doesn't seem to remember.
Not to mention, when you have to create narrative content on that large a scale, quality suffers. I can name a couple of classic quests in WoW, the rest were mostly dreck. The same is true of GW2, do I really care that some chick had bigass spiders eating her apples? Who's bright idea was it to buy an apple orchard with lethal spiders in the trees? Didn't Sue and her husband get an inspection? Ask about the human bodies in cocoons, maybe?
Conversely, no matter how many time you run into a rift, it is consistent with the game lore of Rift. You've never seen that particular dimensional hole-thing before, and closing it is simply ongoing maintenance of a weakened/tattered reality.
Back to your main point, there is a difference between innovation and "something you like". In some ways DEs are more innovative than Rifts (they are dynamic and branching), but in other ways rifts are more innovative (they do away with the thin veneer of faux narrative). It's not that GW2's systems aren't innovative (they are), but that innovative systems aren't really that unusual in MMOs.
Case in point: SWTOR. As derivative as much of the game is, the game's voiceover content is actually groundbreaking, clearly different from any previous MMO. The space combat was innovative. They were the first to give each MMO player his own personal story-world. Yet any number of people will tell you that SWTOR brought nothing new to the genre, simply because they didn't find the game fun.
Branching and varying DE's seems the most innovative to me, even if they are not, based on some arguably correct understanding of the term innovative, I seem to enjoy them the most. Seeing one rift in Rift was seeing them all, I dont feel like that in GW2 and that's a big plus. You look to much into the storyline part of the DE's also, when I see centaurs attacking a human fort all I see is the enemy attacking the fort, I dont honestly know if there's some detailed story behind that attack. Is there?
What comes to TOR, I actually heard many people admit the VO's (and to lesser degree personal or involving story arcs) are new to mmorpgs, but they just dont give a crap about that stuff to begin with.
Im not trying to argue with you but what your telling me then is if i have a stick in my hand and scraps for armor im a young adventurer with no fighting experience and go from that to a beefy fighter with sword and shield it shouldnt be easier to kill a boar or rat or bandit?
Or if i go into a huge tower with an evil boss there who weilds dark arcane powers and can rumble the ground , he shouldnt be harder then a bandit? This is my point. different locations have different encounters of different difficulty a peasant town will have weaker enemies than a castle or cavern with magic weilding armor wearing bosses and minions true?
Lore wise if im a weak peasant like i said starting out and i learn all these new abilities from exploring and becoming a hero in the world im fighting for i should still be the same peasant after saving the world? I shouldnt be able to travel back to my hometown with all these weapons and armor and kill a measly rat , bandit or goblin easier than before?
Well to each ther own guess we have different views on things. Why have levels then or power increases , skill wise ect. Keep our mana, health and mobs the same all the way through the game if its going to be that way..scaling down IS the same as self mentoring .
When you go back to your peasant town it is easier to kill the rat and the bandit. No you arent one shotting anything but it's easier. A lot better system than the traditional "gods walking among common rubble" where no kind of giant could hurt you if you had enough levels above his, you could stand still for the whole day getting attacked and walk away un-harmed.
Innovate: to introduce something new; make changes in anything established for or as if for the first time.
As MosesZD mentioned, innovation doesnt just mean the very first incarnation of an idea. It also means changing something to make it appear new. "The telephone is an example of invention. The iPhone is an example of innovation."
Looking at Rifts dynamic events and GW2's dynamic events is like night and day. The way dynamic events work in GW2 is definitely an innovation.
At any rate, here is my list, there is probably more.
What is actually new:
- No trinity in a Fantasy MMO.
- Downed system.
- Forced downward scaling of content (80s having to do level 20 content as a level 20 scaled down, no steamrolling).
-Underwater combat system.
- Hall of Monuments system.
What has been modified to appear new:
- Dynamic events done in such a scale that they consume the whole game. WAR and Rift had lots of dynamic events, but they are a seperate entity to the normal quest leveling. Other games have had them as nice diversions at endgame (EQ, EQ2 etc) but GW2 made it the entire game, such that the entire world is dynamic.
- No grinding for gear. It has been done in GW1, Bloodline Chronicles etc, but it is fairly unheard of for a fully fledged MMO to have no grind, leading to many cries of woe from the WoW zombie generation.
- The nature of weapon / skill ties and weapon switching. Yes other games had unique skills for certain weapons, but the way GW2 handles it is something entirely different.
Well that great they have a few more things that rift doesnt offer , thats good im not saying its bad .
Every new game will have new features ect. Zone invasions in rift do effect the entire zone there in , alot of rifts do have qsts tied to them. crafting rifts , instant adventure rifts, ect. Underwater combat? Not sure how it is in gw2 but i can attack underwater. Well thats great gw2 has these things now lets see if they CONTINUE to add these kinds of things.
Soon Rift will be adding there housing wich will innovate like no other as i posted before. Thats the thing with trion they keep adding and innovating unlike some other games ive played .In game instanced weddings, not the first im sure but they improved on it , the housing soon to be much improved on , and with them im sure there a crap load more to come.
heres a link to the housing coming. Lets not forget there two man raids , like you the list goes on and on only it keeps growing. Good day to all of you i have nothing against gw2 but do enjoy the talk about innovation tell me if this is innovating to you? Skip to 4:13
Do you think guild wars 2 will keep adding to there game ?
Im not trying to argue with you but what your telling me then is if i have a stick in my hand and scraps for armor im a young adventurer with no fighting experience and go from that to a beefy fighter with sword and shield it shouldnt be easier to kill a boar or rat or bandit?
Or if i go into a huge tower with an evil boss there who weilds dark arcane powers and can rumble the ground , he shouldnt be harder then a bandit? This is my point. different locations have different encounters of different difficulty a peasant town will have weaker enemies than a castle or cavern with magic weilding armor wearing bosses and minions true?
Lore wise if im a weak peasant like i said starting out and i learn all these new abilities from exploring and becoming a hero in the world im fighting for i should still be the same peasant after saving the world? I shouldnt be able to travel back to my hometown with all these weapons and armor and kill a measly rat , bandit or goblin easier than before?
Well to each ther own guess we have different views on things. Why have levels then or power increases , skill wise ect. Keep our mana, health and mobs the same all the way through the game if its going to be that way..scaling down IS the same as self mentoring .
When you go back to your peasant town it is easier to kill the rat and the bandit. No you arent one shotting anything but it's easier. A lot better system than the traditional "gods walking among common rubble" where no kind of giant could hurt you if you had enough levels above his, you could stand still for the whole day getting attacked and walk away un-harmed.
I understand your point about realism but is it realistic to save a world from huge monstrous beasts that could wink at ya and kill you but then be killed by the peasant. Your a HERO well i hope you want to be anyway. In rift for example again nothing ever gets greyed out even lvl 2 mobs they still attack you when your 50 but there gonna die quick . I enjoy that . You enjoy the opposite wich is fine . To each there own i guess . I just dont think my skills, armor should be lowered because of an area of the game world to ME thats not realistic. But i do enjoy self mentoring as an OPTION not forced upon so that i have a choice.
Edit: Well to much time posting not enough playing , thanks for the arguments , opinions of others . glad to have heard other peoples choices . Im out of here for now ..
What did GW2 Truly Innovate for this game? You cant say DE because Rift has those.... so what is it that GW2 has that no other game has?
It innovated in its execution of the things that you say it borrowed from every other MMO including the DE's.They are much more entertaining to me than rifts ever were.The more I play this game the better it gets.Its positively huge.And good looking.I realize all these feelings I have are subjective and my opinion of course.I dotn really see why people ask these useless questions.Looking for arguments and trolling I guess.Have fun not playing it while I have fun playing it.Well worth my time to play.
What did GW2 Truly Innovate for this game? You cant say DE because Rift has those.... so what is it that GW2 has that no other game has?
if you say that DE are copy of rifts in Rift you are so wrong, anyway this they have done its not innovation but they took the GOOD parts from other games and they DIDNOT put them in the blender but they POLISHED them in an excellent way, through this you will find innovation
innovate the way you gather and the way you share monsters/events, these are details that have huge impact
innovate the way you use the skills and gameplay, there is reason to not be static and you dont have on your screen 30 skills alla together the game forces you to choose several skills and forces you to be good player.
innovate the way they represent the PvP with 2 different systems
Comments
Yes really, I predicted exactly these complaints months, maybe years ago. While some people welcome change, others are confused by it. Sadly, some of them became the same people since January.
Branching and varying DE's seems the most innovative to me, even if they are not, based on some arguably correct understanding of the term innovative, I seem to enjoy them the most. Seeing one rift in Rift was seeing them all, I dont feel like that in GW2 and that's a big plus. You look to much into the storyline part of the DE's also, when I see centaurs attacking a human fort all I see is the enemy attacking the fort, I dont honestly know if there's some detailed story behind that attack. Is there?
What comes to TOR, I actually heard many people admit the VO's (and to lesser degree personal or involving story arcs) are new to mmorpgs, but they just dont give a crap about that stuff to begin with.
When you go back to your peasant town it is easier to kill the rat and the bandit. No you arent one shotting anything but it's easier. A lot better system than the traditional "gods walking among common rubble" where no kind of giant could hurt you if you had enough levels above his, you could stand still for the whole day getting attacked and walk away un-harmed.
Well that great they have a few more things that rift doesnt offer , thats good im not saying its bad .
Every new game will have new features ect. Zone invasions in rift do effect the entire zone there in , alot of rifts do have qsts tied to them. crafting rifts , instant adventure rifts, ect. Underwater combat? Not sure how it is in gw2 but i can attack underwater. Well thats great gw2 has these things now lets see if they CONTINUE to add these kinds of things.
Soon Rift will be adding there housing wich will innovate like no other as i posted before. Thats the thing with trion they keep adding and innovating unlike some other games ive played .In game instanced weddings, not the first im sure but they improved on it , the housing soon to be much improved on , and with them im sure there a crap load more to come.
heres a link to the housing coming. Lets not forget there two man raids , like you the list goes on and on only it keeps growing. Good day to all of you i have nothing against gw2 but do enjoy the talk about innovation tell me if this is innovating to you? Skip to 4:13
Do you think guild wars 2 will keep adding to there game ?
http://www.gametrailers.com/gamescom/videos/c17gnn/gc-2012--storm-legion-walkthrough--cam-
I understand your point about realism but is it realistic to save a world from huge monstrous beasts that could wink at ya and kill you but then be killed by the peasant. Your a HERO well i hope you want to be anyway. In rift for example again nothing ever gets greyed out even lvl 2 mobs they still attack you when your 50 but there gonna die quick . I enjoy that . You enjoy the opposite wich is fine . To each there own i guess . I just dont think my skills, armor should be lowered because of an area of the game world to ME thats not realistic. But i do enjoy self mentoring as an OPTION not forced upon so that i have a choice.
Edit: Well to much time posting not enough playing , thanks for the arguments , opinions of others . glad to have heard other peoples choices . Im out of here for now ..
It innovated in its execution of the things that you say it borrowed from every other MMO including the DE's.They are much more entertaining to me than rifts ever were.The more I play this game the better it gets.Its positively huge.And good looking.I realize all these feelings I have are subjective and my opinion of course.I dotn really see why people ask these useless questions.Looking for arguments and trolling I guess.Have fun not playing it while I have fun playing it.Well worth my time to play.
if you say that DE are copy of rifts in Rift you are so wrong, anyway this they have done its not innovation but they took the GOOD parts from other games and they DIDNOT put them in the blender but they POLISHED them in an excellent way, through this you will find innovation
innovate the way you gather and the way you share monsters/events, these are details that have huge impact
innovate the way you use the skills and gameplay, there is reason to not be static and you dont have on your screen 30 skills alla together the game forces you to choose several skills and forces you to be good player.
innovate the way they represent the PvP with 2 different systems
innovate with downed system
i dunno what else to add there so many ...