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My Main Issues With GW2
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I found myself auto-attacking a lot as Guardian just because I could do OK damage and didn't really take all too much (this was in PvE btw)
But as I level up more and more, the enemies hit harder and my auto-attack just doesn't do enough dmg anymore - where as ability damage is HUGE... even using something like Mace + Shield which is largely support/defensive, dropping the #2 skill for the regen also does a stupid amount of damage compared to the auto-attack.
Greatsword #5 is great DoT damage, #3 is just silly high damage, scepter+torch is my new favorite as #3 vulnerability + #2 AoE dmg + 4/5 direct damage via Burning, talented via traits to do +10% to burning targets...
Auto attack is quickly becoming nothing but filler.
No... Just no. Skills on your bar =/= Your skill as a player. If that were true then I would be considered a really skilled player in this game, as I am an Elementalist able to manage 29 skills.
No... More skill is being able to do something like what this player just did. Fight off a Warrior, whilst avoiding the instagib trebuchet shots that are raining down on him. That there takes true skill. Not having an extra button that improves his evasion by 50% for 8 seconds.
Good luck on WoW and let gw2 for the rest of us =]
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
That vid was awesome - dude is a great player. Gave me some great build ideas... funny you think you play a class enough to "get it" and then see something like that and it's like a light bulb.. like, holy crap I didn't even think of doing a Meditation focused build.
If you notice, he's mostly autoattacking, and apparently he's really good.
Your perception of "skill" does not reflect mine though. To me WoW PvP is a memory game more than anything, you need only to remember a huge amount of abilities thoroughly. You cant even use most of your abilities without a target, and when you do have a target and use your ability it's always a homing attack with calculated success %, unless AoE.
I think the GW2 approach, while it could have been executed perhaps a bit better, takes more skill since it's actually YOU who determines if you hit or miss this time, you can use all your abilities without a target and it's up to you to make sure you hit, and up to your target to try and avoid the attack. All that is calculated by the game in WoW, and avoiding attacks is a matter of ability usage depending on your class = memory game. That's why GW2 has less abilities in your hotbar since this time the combat is more mobile and action-like.
Which one of the combat styles you like better, is ofcourse preference, the combat systems are actually so much different that neither can be played with the other games style very well, and the other will be more fun than the other for every individual. I personally like to be more in control of the combat and that's why GW2 wins, WoW control is based on abilities purely, GW2 control is based on movement also.
I do however agree with the red parts with you, because it's simply true and not really a matter of opinion. It's not true on every class, like elementalist has a ton of powerful or useful abilities but I rarely see people in PvP to use every element and the full spectrum of ele-abilities. Engineer has a ton of powerful abilities through kits that many ignore and dont use.
But then there's very powerful classes like warrior which however has a lot less actual variety and they might become a bit dull to play since often the autoattack + spammable dps button seems just enough most of the time. Best example is the thief, it's the ultimate one button wonder profession which has ridiculous efficiency through just one or two abilities. I dont expect this to be the case forever though.
What comes to the competitive ladders and that stuff, yeah, especially game modes should be more, time will tell what they add. Easy to check back in after major updates since there's no monthly fee.
So the only thought you had after watching that vid I linked, was that he was hitting skill 1 a lot.
To think you actually consider yourself a skilled player. Well I'm done here. Going back to this skill-less game with it's 10 skill hot-bar.
Yeah he dodged a bunch, but it's not much different than me knowing when to use my 5 different damage mitigation skills in WoW. It just has a roll animation.
[mod edit]
But on a less GW2-tholic note. I do agree with your points. The pve and sPvP separation is my biggest gear grinder. I dont want my spvp to feel like a mnigame or a waiting game. I have LoL and Smite for that. Also, inability to efficiently level through WvWvW and the fact that mesmer's Mind Stab has been shit on for pvp... but those are unrelated to the current topic..
World of Warcraft is the original creation of God. Real Life is in fact a WoW clone.
should I mention I use over 50 keybinds on Aion? not consideranting the consumables I click on because it have a 30 min of durantion.
That's the beauty of WoW player logic. If GW2 was like Warcraft, it would be called a clone and shot down. Now, since it's NOT like Warcraft, it sucks.
You do realize that once you set your auto attack, which can be set to different abilities by the way, it keeps attacking without being pressed while you do other things, so the ability also keeps flashing, giving the appearance of a player pressing that button over and over again. The auto attack is very filler, but as in the video, that player is on most of his abilities as soon as he can when they are up, though it is all very situational. You would not want to blow an ability just to have someone dodge or move right out of it and wait down that cool down again. Have to think tactically here, as there are not an assortment of kill buttons at your disposal.
I play the Guardian as well, and since mitigation is not the name of the game in GW2, avoidance is, you're comparing apples to watermelons in a sense.
Instead of having every ability in a crazy half screened bar graph, I actually have to tactically choose my abilities based on what I am doing and at times a situation in said scenario. PVE in both games is roughly the same, fights are scripted, mobs to certain things at certain times, etc etc, the only difference here is you are the only one who can save yourself from standing somewhere you should not have been.
PVE open world, 2 Handed sword and any secondary weapon, as I do most open world content as AOE damage with a group. Run my Asura racial aoe, pull out Big Perm to keep the champs busy while we wail on em and aoe and control groups of mobs all day long.
WvW I end up running a staff/2Handed sword and hammer run. Again, the hammer is very, how would you say, one trick pony ish, for my group make up. Our thief pulls people off walls, I trap players with the hammer gt and then we control the players movement and take them out. Staff as support and Sword as my weapon of choice.
Dungeons I run a sword/board and sword/mace swap. Mace to help the group, sword to stay in the fight and dish some damage.
Having 10 actions, and ability and weapon choice only controlling 8(Heal and auto attack, or your elite skill) of those bars makes putting a lot of thought into what you are going to use important. I would think understanding how to steer and change your play style around given situations would be far superior than having all your tools thrown at you so you can mash away until something works. (Inherently we all mash away until we figure out what works anyway.)
Once you got your macros down in WoW, be it for raiding or PVP you basically spammed 1-2 buttons, depending on how intense your macros got and watch a meter or a countdown timer somewhere.
In GW2 you have to watch what the enemy(player or NPC) is doing in order to counter, move, reflect or negate the attack. In WoW automation has removed that player element.
Something I would die to see change in GW2 is that your second five abilities change with your weapon swap, so you have a set of abilities per weapon, as some weapons are better suited per situation and some of those abilities go hand in hand with those situations.
All you need is autoattack, OP said so.
Made a new name today just to be a WOW lover and a GW2 hater? Congrats on the effort.
Having been playing around with swapping through all my elements as a 22 Ele with daggers, I've found it's the most damage efficient to merely stay in fire and auto attack until 2 is up and then autoattack more. At least with Mesmer swapping weps aided my damage, and it only had one swap option, not four. And the uselessness of the other elements will only get worse as I level and have to allocate traits and specialize. The utilities, mind you, will likely be worth swapping through in PvP, but I'll mostly be autoattacking no matter which element I'm in (Fire the least), leading to boredom.
Perhaps other ele weapons will fare better. We'll see.
He also said that you are better if you have more skills so I am more pro then him cuz i got more. He has a feeble 36. pfftt... I didn't even go with a flame thrower kit that would have given me 4 more.
Just sigh...another day of you guys driving me nuts to no end
You forgot one pretty big mechanic: the punishing cooldown system.
Wow someone took all my feeling towards the subject and wrapped them up in a nice neat 3 sentence package. Perfect. Thank you.
The logic of those sentances is tantamount to me telling you about my new game involving sitting around doing nothing, and then when you don't like my new game, I proclaim that Guild Wars 2 players just think that anything which isn't GW2 sucks.
But fear not, as you'll see my great truth in time.
Don't be jelly.
Wait OP, you're a pvp'er yet you find GUILD WARS lacking? I think it's because everything is balanced and you cannot handle being overgeared for wow pvp. Balanced pvp does scare a lot of people away especially the guild wars community, we're creative with our pvp builds. bye!
It's hard not to find spamming auto-attack lacking. And it probably takes less effort to get max geared in WoW for PvP than it does in GW2 for WvW. And WoW is actually probably the most balanced MMO out there. Havn't placed enough GW2 to draw conclusions on its balance yet though.
please mail me your stuff : )