Every MMO is a grind one way or another. The thing that matters is if the game play is fun and the time you spend playing is enjoyable. GW2 gives you options that other MMOs do not. Most MMOs you have only a few options at end game Raids runs, Dungeon Runs, or grinding BGs. In GW2 there is so much more that you can choose what you want to do. Events are a nice change in GW2.
Can someone with actual game experience highlight the listen items that can be completed before reaching 80, as well as anything that is redundant to another? For instance, finish X achievement and finish all achievements. Those are the same, there is no reason for there to be two.
After this is done, I'd wonder how small that list becomes.
It doesn't actually matter if you can complete something before level 80, if the content is still enjoyable to some then it is simply content that is viable to both end game and levelling, if it's finite content it's a choice, if its repeatable it applies to both.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
1-80: Start looking for an MMO with actual endgame.
This
Very disappointed with the lack of things to do at 80
This guys small article might help you. I mean, you payed $60 for the game, and we should try and help each other if we feel we are at a dead end. I'm about at about 170 hours and level 56. I'm hoping to use what that guy posted there as kind of a guide.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Everyone knows WoW has a grind. Its the GW2 fans who said GW2 didn't have a grind which the OP has clearly pointed out they do. The truth hurts sometimes, we know.
That's the major mischaracterization I see regarding "grind" and GW2 fan opinions of it. We don't say there's no grind. We say there's no mandatory grind. In WoW, for example (and my only relevant comparison), you raid to "progress", period. If you want to keep up you need to. In GW2 there's nothing required for you to do to stay "competitive" at max level.
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Earn enough gold to purchase a racial armor set
Earn enough karma to purchase an exotic armor set
Play through all dungeons in story mode
Complete all dungeons in explorable mode
Complete all 33 possible explorable mode dungeon paths
Earn enough dungeon tokens to purchase a set of armor
Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game
Start a petition to make the Undead Orrian Chicken a new necro minion
Earn enough karma to purchase a racial weapon
Craft an exotic weapon for your character
Craft an exotic armor set for your character
Purchase a Dragon’s Deep weapon
Earn all possible PvE titles
Experiment with new builds for your profession
Discover all possible recipes for your crafting disciplines
Master all crafting disciplines
Experiment with the Mystic Forge
Create a Mystic weapon in the Mystic Forge
Craft a legendary weapon in the Mystic Forge
Explore all areas in the game
Find and use a vial of black dye
Find a vial of black dye and give it to a friend
Create or purchase a full set of 20 slot bags
Give Logan a wedgie
Participate in the Norn Keg Brawl
Unlock all Keg Brawl achievements
Create a new character to experience a different profession / race
Participate in structured PvP
Raise your sPvP rank
Achieve the rank of Ascendant in sPvP
Complete your favorite sPvP cosmetic armor set
Collect new cosmetic weapon skins for sPvP
Unlock all possible cosmetic weapon and armor skins in sPvP
Earn all sPvP titles
Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles
Complete the current Monthly achievements
Help your guild earn influence to unlock additional perks
Outrun a centaur
Charm all possible pets as a Ranger
Create an all-ranger guild called Team Rocket, lose constantly in sPvP
Collect all 101 types of cooking materials
Fill every collection slot in the bank with at least one item
Participate in World versus World
Help your world win in WvW
Defeat enough enemy players in WvW to complete the medal
Complete the awesome Yakslapper achievement in WvW
Complete all WvW achievements
Build and use all siege weapon types in WvW
Earn all possible WvW Titles
Play the organ in Caledon forest, and party with the Quaggan
Earn enough gold to purchase a Commander Tome
Visit the monument to Killeen and pay your respects
Defeat the Shatterer
Defeat the Claw of Jormag
Defeat Tequatl the Sunless
Add new friends to your friend’s list
Organize an in-game event for your guild
Complete every map in the game
Participate in meta events
Discover and participate in new dynamic events
Collect stacks of butter and butter prank your friends
Learn the ins and outs of the Trading Post
Get rich selling Globs of Ectoplasm
Buy a Box o’ Fun and throw a party in Lion’s Arch
Complete an armor set for your character’s Order
Read all of the books in Divinity's Reach
Read the story of how Ebonhawke was founded
Complete all possible weapon achievements for your character
Defeat the Champion of Grenth and purchase the exotic armor set
Write about your level 80 experience, have it published on GW2Hub
Purchase a set of armor from the guild armorsmith
Purchase a set of weapons from the guild weaponsmith
Complete all Slayer achievements
Complete the Lifetime Survivor achievement
Go skydiving in Arah after defeating Zhaitan
Have fun!
So according to the "experts" this is the list of different and fun things you are supposed to be able to do at lv 80.
I love how the 90% of it is :
-Grind for Gear
-Grind for achievements
-Grind for collect random crap
-Spam dungeons like crazy
But hey, it´s GW2, that automatically makes it non-grind and fun apparently, even though any other game would be burned to death if they presented such a list as "endgame content"
I like the game, i have bought gems two times already to support it, and i will keep getting the expansions and whatever they throw at us because i enjoy the game, but it came to a moment where anything gw2 does is automatically holy and fun for no other reason that it´s gw2
And this is why i hate this game´s fanbois much more than i do hate the haters, despite the fact i do enjoy the game myself.
This is getting ridiculous.
Damn you beat me to it. I was jsut getting ready to post this here.
Sad that the haters and detracters will still find fault no matter how much proof is shown them though. Simply put, GW2 has tons of content and the legendary farming will take someone who doesnt powerlevel like me plenty of time to even begin let alone finish.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Unlock all available skills for your profession / race
Raise your crafting disciplines to skill level 400
Earn enough gold to purchase a racial armor set
Earn enough karma to purchase an exotic armor set
Play through all dungeons in story mode
Complete all dungeons in explorable mode
Complete all 33 possible explorable mode dungeon paths
Earn enough dungeon tokens to purchase a set of armor
Collect a set of armor from each dungeon in the game
Start a petition to make the Undead Orrian Chicken a new necro minion
Earn enough karma to purchase a racial weapon
Craft an exotic weapon for your character
Craft an exotic armor set for your character
Purchase a Dragon’s Deep weapon
Earn all possible PvE titles
Experiment with new builds for your profession
Discover all possible recipes for your crafting disciplines
Master all crafting disciplines
Experiment with the Mystic Forge
Create a Mystic weapon in the Mystic Forge
Craft a legendary weapon in the Mystic Forge
Explore all areas in the game
Find and use a vial of black dye
Find a vial of black dye and give it to a friend
Create or purchase a full set of 20 slot bags
Give Logan a wedgie
Participate in the Norn Keg Brawl
Unlock all Keg Brawl achievements
Create a new character to experience a different profession / race
Participate in structured PvP
Raise your sPvP rank
Achieve the rank of Ascendant in sPvP
Complete your favorite sPvP cosmetic armor set
Collect new cosmetic weapon skins for sPvP
Unlock all possible cosmetic weapon and armor skins in sPvP
Earn all sPvP titles
Find and complete all 31 jumping puzzles
Complete the current Monthly achievements
Help your guild earn influence to unlock additional perks
Outrun a centaur
Charm all possible pets as a Ranger
Create an all-ranger guild called Team Rocket, lose constantly in sPvP
Collect all 101 types of cooking materials
Fill every collection slot in the bank with at least one item
Participate in World versus World
Help your world win in WvW
Defeat enough enemy players in WvW to complete the medal
Complete the awesome Yakslapper achievement in WvW
Complete all WvW achievements
Build and use all siege weapon types in WvW
Earn all possible WvW Titles
Play the organ in Caledon forest, and party with the Quaggan
Earn enough gold to purchase a Commander Tome
Visit the monument to Killeen and pay your respects
Defeat the Shatterer
Defeat the Claw of Jormag
Defeat Tequatl the Sunless
Add new friends to your friend’s list
Organize an in-game event for your guild
Complete every map in the game
Participate in meta events
Discover and participate in new dynamic events
Collect stacks of butter and butter prank your friends
Learn the ins and outs of the Trading Post
Get rich selling Globs of Ectoplasm
Buy a Box o’ Fun and throw a party in Lion’s Arch
Complete an armor set for your character’s Order
Read all of the books in Divinity's Reach
Read the story of how Ebonhawke was founded
Complete all possible weapon achievements for your character
Defeat the Champion of Grenth and purchase the exotic armor set
Write about your level 80 experience, have it published on GW2Hub
Purchase a set of armor from the guild armorsmith
Purchase a set of weapons from the guild weaponsmith
Complete all Slayer achievements
Complete the Lifetime Survivor achievement
Go skydiving in Arah after defeating Zhaitan
Have fun!
So according to the "experts" this is the list of different and fun things you are supposed to be able to do at lv 80.
I love how the 90% of it is :
-Grind for Gear
-Grind for achievements
-Grind for collect random crap
-Spam dungeons like crazy
But hey, it´s GW2, that automatically makes it non-grind and fun apparently, even though any other game would be burned to death if they presented such a list as "endgame content"
I like the game, i have bought gems two times already to support it, and i will keep getting the expansions and whatever they throw at us because i enjoy the game, but it came to a moment where anything gw2 does is automatically holy and fun for no other reason that it´s gw2
And this is why i hate this game´s fanbois much more than i do hate the haters, despite the fact i do enjoy the game myself.
This is getting ridiculous.
Damn you beat me to it. I was jsut getting ready to post this here.
Sad that the haters and detracters will still find fault no matter how much proof is shown them though. Simply put, GW2 has tons of content and the legendary farming will take someone who doesnt powerlevel like me plenty of time to even begin let alone finish.
Its the GW2 fans who said GW2 didn't have a grind which the OP has clearly pointed out they do.
The truth hurts sometimes, we know.
That's the major mischaracterization I see regarding "grind" and GW2 fan opinions of it. We don't say there's no grind. We say there's no mandatory grind. In WoW, for example (and my only relevant comparison), you raid to "progress", period. If you want to keep up you need to. In GW2 there's nothing required for you to do to stay "competitive" at max level.
There is nothing to be competitive about in raiding unless you choose to make it feel competitive. I raided in WoW for years and couldn't care less if another guild killed a boss before us. We still had our instanced version. Never understood this make belief competition I hear bantered around so much.
The only time I felt any type of competition in raiding was when I played EQ and all the raids were open world and the bosses were on a timer. And if you wanted to get the loot you had to rally the guild, get to the boss and kill it first. If you wiped tough luck, the next guild is there and waiting for their crack. If it was a NA guild and EU guild, then all types of buggery happened.
Its the GW2 fans who said GW2 didn't have a grind which the OP has clearly pointed out they do.
The truth hurts sometimes, we know.
There is no unified entity known as "the GW2 fans" who have a singular, uniform stance on grinding or, in fact, even the same definition of "grind." A number of 15+ page threads on this very forum can illustrate this. This is the single most common fallacy made on these forums:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes claim Y.
Both persons A and B are fans of the same game (GW2 in this example).
GW2 fans are saying both X and Y, which is hypocrtical/contradictory! Caught you!
In reality, various "GW2 fans" have held various positions on the matter, again, which is easily demonstrable by viewing past threads where GW2 fans debated each other about how the end game "grind" would feel (because that's what grind is, a feeling of repetitiveness.) Something that feels grindy to one person may not to another. Indeed, many of the items listed on this list won't feel grindy at all to many players. And that's part of the beauty of GW2: you play the parts of the game you want, earn the same level rewards, and you're never forced to do anything you don't want to over and over again, aka grind.
Its the GW2 fans who said GW2 didn't have a grind which the OP has clearly pointed out they do.
The truth hurts sometimes, we know.
There is no unified entity known as "the GW2 fans" who have a singular, uniform stance on grinding or, in fact, even the same definition of "grind." A number of 15+ page threads on this very forum can illustrate this. This is the single most common fallacy made on these forums:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes claim Y.
Both persons A and B are fans of the same game (GW2 in this example).
GW2 fans are saying both X and Y, which is hypocrtical/contradictory! Caught you!
In reality, various "GW2 fans" have held various positions on the matter, again, which is easily demonstrable by viewing past threads where GW2 fans debated each other about how the end game "grind" would feel (because that's what grind is, a feeling of repetitiveness.) Something that feels grindy to one person may not to another. Indeed, many of the items listed on this list won't feel grindy at all to many players. And that's part of the beauty of GW2: you play the parts of the game you want, earn the same level rewards, and you're never forced to do anything you don't want to over and over again, aka grind.
If I would have said "Its all the GW2 fans" then your point would be valid. But I didn't.
There is nothing to be competitive about in raiding unless you choose to make it feel competitive. I raided in WoW for years and couldn't care less if another guild killed a boss before us. We still had our instanced version. Never understood this make belief competition I hear bantered around so much.
The only time I felt any type of competition in raiding was when I played EQ and all the raids were open world and the bosses were on a timer. And if you wanted to get the loot you had to rally the guild, get to the boss and kill it first. If you wiped tough luck, the next guild is there and waiting for their crack. If it was a NA guild and EU guild, then all types of buggery happened.
The competitiveness was in being geared enough to move your guild to the next raid tier. There was definitely a degree of competition in gearing my tank against the others tanks in the guild (in addition to simply being good at it). Two comparable tanks, the main tank job would go to the one with the best gear since they've have the greatest survivability. In a situation where if the tank dies you fail, that extra point or two on those damnable meters mattered.
Sigh... I don't miss that. Sorrows Embrace yesterday, I asked the guild. Four others wanted to go, so we partied up, we went and we did it. No gear score checks, no "assignments", no waiting for a healer to log on or trying to get someone to change to their healer... we grabbed five and went.
There is nothing to be competitive about in raiding unless you choose to make it feel competitive. I raided in WoW for years and couldn't care less if another guild killed a boss before us. We still had our instanced version. Never understood this make belief competition I hear bantered around so much.
The only time I felt any type of competition in raiding was when I played EQ and all the raids were open world and the bosses were on a timer. And if you wanted to get the loot you had to rally the guild, get to the boss and kill it first. If you wiped tough luck, the next guild is there and waiting for their crack. If it was a NA guild and EU guild, then all types of buggery happened.
The competitiveness was in being geared enough to move your guild to the next raid tier. There was definitely a degree of competition in gearing my tank against the others tanks in the guild (in addition to simply being good at it). Two comparable tanks, the main tank job would go to the one with the best gear since they've have the greatest survivability. In a situation where if the tank dies you fail, that extra point or two on those damnable meters mattered.
Sigh... I don't miss that. Sorrows Embrace yesterday, I asked the guild. Four others wanted to go, so we partied up, we went and we did it. No gear score checks, no "assignments", no waiting for a healer to log on or trying to get someone to change to their healer... we grabbed five and went.
I stopped at the second sentence because in the guilds I have been in we made sure everyone was geared for the roles they wanted to perform so we all could progress as a guild. If your guild promotes individuals competing for gear vs everyone working together then I would find a guild with a different guild structure. The latter will breed resentment and cause fighting over loot. If everyone shares in gearing up each other it breeds teamwork and unity.
Well this thread has gone on long enough with out a definition war I'll try and start one.
If you define grind as a repetative task then yes there are repeative tasks in GW2 and in fact most MMOs. I'll even claim in most video games in general, hell in life there are repeative task. The "daily grind" was around long before video games (around the time Roman Empire fell) .
But I can claim, for me, no real grind in GW2 if I define grind as someting that I have to do but don't want to remain competative or open up other content in the game. So, I have to perform this job to do other things in the game to have fun. Some of you don't get that feeling from raids, you love them, and good on you but that is my feeling in a raid oriented game. I must raid (grind) to open up other things to do to have fun. Not everyone feels this way of course but GW2 was certainly designed for someone like me - so good for me
There is nothing to be competitive about in raiding unless you choose to make it feel competitive. I raided in WoW for years and couldn't care less if another guild killed a boss before us. We still had our instanced version. Never understood this make belief competition I hear bantered around so much.
The only time I felt any type of competition in raiding was when I played EQ and all the raids were open world and the bosses were on a timer. And if you wanted to get the loot you had to rally the guild, get to the boss and kill it first. If you wiped tough luck, the next guild is there and waiting for their crack. If it was a NA guild and EU guild, then all types of buggery happened.
The competitiveness was in being geared enough to move your guild to the next raid tier. There was definitely a degree of competition in gearing my tank against the others tanks in the guild (in addition to simply being good at it). Two comparable tanks, the main tank job would go to the one with the best gear since they've have the greatest survivability. In a situation where if the tank dies you fail, that extra point or two on those damnable meters mattered.
Sigh... I don't miss that. Sorrows Embrace yesterday, I asked the guild. Four others wanted to go, so we partied up, we went and we did it. No gear score checks, no "assignments", no waiting for a healer to log on or trying to get someone to change to their healer... we grabbed five and went.
I stopped at the second sentence because in the guilds I have been in we made sure everyone was geared for the roles they wanted to perform so we all could progress as a guild. If your guild promotes individuals competing for gear vs everyone working together then I would find a guild with a different guild structure. The latter will breed resentment and cause fighting over loot. If everyone shares in gearing up each other it breeds teamwork and unity.
They were a good guild, they just didn't completely hold your hand and bottle feed you to full raid gear. But, that's in the past anyhow... quit WoW right before Cataclysm. Just couldn't do the grind thing anymore. Not that kind of grind at least... the second job type. It wasn't fun anymore, just necessary to maximize my "play".
Comments
Can someone with actual game experience highlight the listen items that can be completed before reaching 80, as well as anything that is redundant to another? For instance, finish X achievement and finish all achievements. Those are the same, there is no reason for there to be two.
After this is done, I'd wonder how small that list becomes.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
ever sit in a sports bar and listen to people argue about "their team"? it's human nature I guess
I miss DAoC
I need educated. Besides raiding please list all other things you do in MMO's after level cap that are not in GW2.
I need to know what I am missing.
This guys small article might help you. I mean, you payed $60 for the game, and we should try and help each other if we feel we are at a dead end. I'm about at about 170 hours and level 56. I'm hoping to use what that guy posted there as kind of a guide.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
WoW Endgame.
10 Reach max level
20 Run dungeons to get gear for first raid
30 If gear == "ready for raid"
40 Run raid for gear
50 If raid == "last raid released"
60 Loop (Is next expansion released)
70 When Loop = "Yes" Goto 10
80 End-Loop
90 Else
100 raid = nextRaid
110 Goto 40
120 End-if
130 End-if
Oderint, dum metuant.
According to this list not.
According to this list WoW Endgame is composed of tons of exciting things to do! :
- Do all the daily quests!
-Explore all the zones and complete their quests!
-Unlock all the reputation levels to get all the reputation gear!
-Collect all the minipets!
-Collect all the mounts!
-Shuffle your talents and try new, exciting specs!
-Collect all your class fitting gear!
-Collect all your raid gear!
-collect all your raid weapons!
-Collect all your dungeon sets!
-Collect all your dungeon weapons!
-Collect your pvp gear!
-Collect your pvp weapons!
-Collect all your class glyphs!
-Make enough gold to buy cool looking epic gear from the ah!
-Make a guild!
-Make a guild and level it up to lv 25!
-Unlock all the guild perks!
-Obtain all the guild achievements!
-Obtain all the guild reptuation gear!
-Obtain all the pvp achievements!
-Obtain all the pve achievements
-Raise all professions to max!
-Raise your secondary professions to max!
-Make an arena team!
-Partecipate in team arenas!
And i could go on and on and on and on
Everyone knows WoW has a grind.
Its the GW2 fans who said GW2 didn't have a grind which the OP has clearly pointed out they do.
The truth hurts sometimes, we know.
That's the major mischaracterization I see regarding "grind" and GW2 fan opinions of it. We don't say there's no grind. We say there's no mandatory grind. In WoW, for example (and my only relevant comparison), you raid to "progress", period. If you want to keep up you need to. In GW2 there's nothing required for you to do to stay "competitive" at max level.Oderint, dum metuant.
Yeah, cause there is NEVER any grinding in Sandbox MMOs....
Both good games imho. Right now I'm just playing the B2P one though.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Damn you beat me to it. I was jsut getting ready to post this here.
Sad that the haters and detracters will still find fault no matter how much proof is shown them though. Simply put, GW2 has tons of content and the legendary farming will take someone who doesnt powerlevel like me plenty of time to even begin let alone finish.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
you dont even understant the spirit of the OP
Is it because he's posting it wrong?
Pretty sure I'm pushing the limits at this point
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
There is nothing to be competitive about in raiding unless you choose to make it feel competitive. I raided in WoW for years and couldn't care less if another guild killed a boss before us. We still had our instanced version. Never understood this make belief competition I hear bantered around so much.
The only time I felt any type of competition in raiding was when I played EQ and all the raids were open world and the bosses were on a timer. And if you wanted to get the loot you had to rally the guild, get to the boss and kill it first. If you wiped tough luck, the next guild is there and waiting for their crack. If it was a NA guild and EU guild, then all types of buggery happened.
There is no unified entity known as "the GW2 fans" who have a singular, uniform stance on grinding or, in fact, even the same definition of "grind." A number of 15+ page threads on this very forum can illustrate this. This is the single most common fallacy made on these forums:
Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes claim Y.
Both persons A and B are fans of the same game (GW2 in this example).
GW2 fans are saying both X and Y, which is hypocrtical/contradictory! Caught you!
In reality, various "GW2 fans" have held various positions on the matter, again, which is easily demonstrable by viewing past threads where GW2 fans debated each other about how the end game "grind" would feel (because that's what grind is, a feeling of repetitiveness.) Something that feels grindy to one person may not to another. Indeed, many of the items listed on this list won't feel grindy at all to many players. And that's part of the beauty of GW2: you play the parts of the game you want, earn the same level rewards, and you're never forced to do anything you don't want to over and over again, aka grind.
If I would have said "Its all the GW2 fans" then your point would be valid. But I didn't.
The competitiveness was in being geared enough to move your guild to the next raid tier. There was definitely a degree of competition in gearing my tank against the others tanks in the guild (in addition to simply being good at it). Two comparable tanks, the main tank job would go to the one with the best gear since they've have the greatest survivability. In a situation where if the tank dies you fail, that extra point or two on those damnable meters mattered.
Sigh... I don't miss that. Sorrows Embrace yesterday, I asked the guild. Four others wanted to go, so we partied up, we went and we did it. No gear score checks, no "assignments", no waiting for a healer to log on or trying to get someone to change to their healer... we grabbed five and went.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I stopped at the second sentence because in the guilds I have been in we made sure everyone was geared for the roles they wanted to perform so we all could progress as a guild. If your guild promotes individuals competing for gear vs everyone working together then I would find a guild with a different guild structure. The latter will breed resentment and cause fighting over loot. If everyone shares in gearing up each other it breeds teamwork and unity.
+1
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Well this thread has gone on long enough with out a definition war I'll try and start one.
If you define grind as a repetative task then yes there are repeative tasks in GW2 and in fact most MMOs. I'll even claim in most video games in general, hell in life there are repeative task. The "daily grind" was around long before video games (around the time Roman Empire fell) .
But I can claim, for me, no real grind in GW2 if I define grind as someting that I have to do but don't want to remain competative or open up other content in the game. So, I have to perform this job to do other things in the game to have fun. Some of you don't get that feeling from raids, you love them, and good on you but that is my feeling in a raid oriented game. I must raid (grind) to open up other things to do to have fun. Not everyone feels this way of course but GW2 was certainly designed for someone like me - so good for me
They were a good guild, they just didn't completely hold your hand and bottle feed you to full raid gear. But, that's in the past anyhow... quit WoW right before Cataclysm. Just couldn't do the grind thing anymore. Not that kind of grind at least... the second job type. It wasn't fun anymore, just necessary to maximize my "play".
Oderint, dum metuant.
Welcome to the MMORPG genre.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing