Longevity in MMO stems from two things: social bonds and character investment. While GW2 is strong in a few traits, it is lacking greatly in these two things.
Social bonds form when not only is grouping required, but reputation matters (i.e. not just grouping with any warm body, but actually knowing the people you're grouping with and knowing they aren't terrible in either attitude or at computer games).
Character investment is formed, in part, over time. No feeling of investment in character when you've hit level cap and have top gear in less than 2 weeks.
you and the Op would have us believe that GW1 players had no character investment and no social bonds
why would they?
I don't understand the no social bonds part, there is a social bond, I play with rl friends. Part of mmo gaming IMO.
Social meaning interdependance.
You dont rely on those people- You dont need those people. Its just another chat (essentially)
No different from going on Skyrim Skype Channel and playing Skyrim at the same time. Yes its "social" but in the context of the game it really is almost pointless.
Generally pointless things with people you don't need is what you do with friends - like going to the cinema.
Interdependance is what I get at work.
Yes, I work too . In fact most of us probably do. Glad you mentioned how you do enough of that at work or Irl (which you have) blah, blah.
I just dont get why you would play an online game then- really. You do not want to rely on others so its either pure competition or showing off (while not being social anyhow)-
Purely my opinion of course, but after playing GW2 and enjoying it to a degree, I don't see the game having very much longevity. Want to find out why? Click below:
OMG GW2 is dead people are leaving and droves (this happens after any launch some people just wont like it)
OMG GW2 Devs totally lied to us about *add moan* (Yep this is what we call not reading the devs posts and listening to some guy you meet online)
OMG GW2 is free to play it cant be any good (think in that past and you can live in it, have fun pig farming in the dark ages)
OMG GW2 has nothing to do (leveled to 80 as fast as they can, doesn't even know about 90% of the content or what you can do at 80)
I can go on and on and on, all of this has been leveled at every mmo over the last few years, and yet they keep making them because the OMG crew come and go, mostly onto the next game and try and ruin it by crying about how short there attention span is and how everyone else should entertain them.
Oh for the record GW2 is not really the game for me, PvP involves and gun when I play and the PvE just isnt there for me, but I still give it props for being a good game because everyone I talk to is enjoying it.
Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.
saw you have crafting in there.. nm anyway crafting doesn't take long my guildy got his set in less than a week
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Purely my opinion of course, but after playing GW2 and enjoying it to a degree, I don't see the game having very much longevity. Want to find out why? Click below:
Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.
karma grind isn't the only way to get full set of the best stat gear
Never said it was. Karma gear doesn't even have the stat build most classes would want in PVP. Any avenue you take to get Exotics is going to be a large grind. Unless of course you pay into the cash shop and buy gold > buy exotics or crafting materials for exotics. Most people aren't going to have the gold to purchase them when they hit 80.
^ it's what first drew me to GW1 and why i like GW2 so much.. yes there is a grind for certain gear but has always been an optional grind.. you grind it out to look badass not to roflstomp lowbies left and right. I prefer this sort of grind way more than a grind like wow or rift as where if i don't do it for a long period of time and come back I'm now so far behind I'm next to useless against(pvp) or with(raids) people who have been grinding for months/years.. for me I can come back to GW2 anytime and enjoy the game and not worry about people stomping all over me or not wanting me in a group just because i haven't been grinding out gear for the past year..
I like this as well in GW2. I will be able to max out and come back for small sessions whenever I wish and not be gimped.
But even in WOW the gear grind was optional. If you PVP'd you had gear to work towards (I did not) if you Raided you had gear to work towards (I did but kinds sucked at it) and if you were questing only you had gear that you worked towards (via quests- I hated questing....)
Its really no different as far as being optional.
The difference is in GW2 I really do not have anything to "work for"- Which is fine for the game but again (speaking of longevity) its not sustaining.
so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?
Not any more than you could jump into GW2 and be competitive in an explorable dungeon or WvWvW without exotics. The only thing that truly evens out PVP is SPVP, but so does an FPS / RTS.
how long does it take to get full set of exotics? no time at all at 80.. how long does it take to get gladiator gear or full raid set? I also am doing just fine in WvW at level 31
Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.
Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.
Really? Because I'm level 80, and getting full exotics is a hell of a grind. 42k karma per horribly statted piece, many G worth of mats for a horribly statted crafted set, or run countless explorable dungeons for the actual good exotics. I don't remember heroic dungeon gear / PVP gear being difficult / time consuming to get in WoW.
karma grind isn't the only way to get full set of the best stat gear
Never said it was. Karma gear doesn't even have the stat build most classes would want in PVP. Any avenue you take to get Exotics is going to be a large grind. Unless of course you pay into the cash shop and buy gold > buy exotics or crafting materials for exotics. Most people aren't going to have the gold to purchase them when they hit 80.
misread your post and edited my previous post
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
All I can say is that if I get one tenth the amount of time in entertainment, as is devoted by haters trying to point out any small flaw that they can find with GW2, than it will deliver in spades.
I don't need the game to provide 8760 hours of quality entertainment in a year, and I feel sorry for the people that think "hardcore player" is a positive term.
Thats what you (and many) are missing.
Many of us "haters" (if you include me) love the game. We are discussing faults we find in a game we are enjoying.
Look, I want there to be choices. Different types of games. I want a Sandbox game to play, a Theme Park game to Play, a casual Game to Play, a Strategy game to play, a card game to play. I do not want GW2 to be "another WOW" clone . But we can find fault and discuss it- Reasons we think the game isnt as good as it could be- Things we think it lacks.
This does not mean we "hate" the game or want the game to be a "raid" game, etc, etc, etc..
it was just an observation of haters in general, and not directed towards you or the OP. Basically I just meant to say, if I can get as much time loving the game, as haters spend hating, than I will be very happy.
No I know =P
Its just getting impossible to discuss anything without being attacked, labeled as a hater or told to go back to a "raid" game. A percieved negative towards GW2 is trreated as if you have insulted someones Mother or Race- Its getting pretty bad.
Just the other night I was telling my Wife about a feature in GW2 which I thought was shallow- I locked the door, closed the blinds and curtains and whispered as quietly as I could...I wasnt even finished when the Curtains popped open and a midget screamed "You are wrong- Heres 88 reasons why...."
The point is, this game is about 3 weeks old. I dont think it has longevity (but doesnt need it). This doesnt mean I "have no life" or am outside the ideals of the "average gamer" etc, etc... It means I find it too shallow and do not see what really happens at end game. WVW is kinda a zerg.
Is still think its fun.
But to go on and on about how I am wrong and there is X to do and Y to do , blah, blah- Games 3 weeks old. Tell me about all that in 3 months.
It's also getting pretty tiring hearing about so many little things under the title of "EPIC FAIL" I seen so many hate posts that just want to take a poke at GW2. I'm surprised I haven't been reading "Too Much Butter, another Anet EPIC FAIL" threads. So remember that the frustrations are on both sides of the fence.
As for the zerg thing in WvW, I've never understood it. How do you not have a zerg when there is 100 people vs?
Look at DAOC for that answer-
Thre will always be some "zergishness" (is that a word- lol) to mass combat- But having specialized classes required far more complex strategy (and less Zerg) while mass combat ensued. In GW2 its so far just spamming buttons with everyone else and the largest group with the fastest spamming skills wins.
well, I never played DAOC so I can't say much about that, but spamming buttons is a personal problem. You really should admit that if that is the case, the only "player skill" a person can represent, is their own. So I would be inclined to dispute your position on the WvW because you don't know what other people are doing, yet still claim to know so.
See, I was under the impression that a "zerg" as such, was just a mass of people rushing from one point to the next, in which I don't see how mass combat could be organized better without being the responsibility of the players.
And being that the specialized classes is still present in GW2, it implies to me that you may not recognize all aspects of the various classes yet, and therefore may be having difficulty in perceiving the value that each individual class may bring to the table.
So, as a GW2 fan, I hope that I haven't "attacked you" even though I disagree with your position on WvW because I feel that you are currently drawing a conclusion from incomplete experience.
so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?
Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.
I believe this game having a great deal more longevity then a lot of current games out there by the great many features it has. One of which power level of character remains relatively same to the zone so adventures in the area remains challenging. It also allows higher level characters to play with low level friends or just to help out others without overwhelming them. It also stops griefing from destroying everything by virtue of just being higher level. For example, just one higher level character wiping out monsters in the area so easily that other lower level characters would need. Also not having to fight over resources is a big bonus as well. All of this is just the tip of the many ways this game has over other games.
so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?
Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.
Highlighted the important part.
so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
All I can say is that if I get one tenth the amount of time in entertainment, as is devoted by haters trying to point out any small flaw that they can find with GW2, than it will deliver in spades.
I don't need the game to provide 8760 hours of quality entertainment in a year, and I feel sorry for the people that think "hardcore player" is a positive term.
Thats what you (and many) are missing.
Many of us "haters" (if you include me) love the game. We are discussing faults we find in a game we are enjoying.
Look, I want there to be choices. Different types of games. I want a Sandbox game to play, a Theme Park game to Play, a casual Game to Play, a Strategy game to play, a card game to play. I do not want GW2 to be "another WOW" clone . But we can find fault and discuss it- Reasons we think the game isnt as good as it could be- Things we think it lacks.
This does not mean we "hate" the game or want the game to be a "raid" game, etc, etc, etc..
it was just an observation of haters in general, and not directed towards you or the OP. Basically I just meant to say, if I can get as much time loving the game, as haters spend hating, than I will be very happy.
No I know =P
Its just getting impossible to discuss anything without being attacked, labeled as a hater or told to go back to a "raid" game. A percieved negative towards GW2 is trreated as if you have insulted someones Mother or Race- Its getting pretty bad.
Just the other night I was telling my Wife about a feature in GW2 which I thought was shallow- I locked the door, closed the blinds and curtains and whispered as quietly as I could...I wasnt even finished when the Curtains popped open and a midget screamed "You are wrong- Heres 88 reasons why...."
The point is, this game is about 3 weeks old. I dont think it has longevity (but doesnt need it). This doesnt mean I "have no life" or am outside the ideals of the "average gamer" etc, etc... It means I find it too shallow and do not see what really happens at end game. WVW is kinda a zerg.
Is still think its fun.
But to go on and on about how I am wrong and there is X to do and Y to do , blah, blah- Games 3 weeks old. Tell me about all that in 3 months.
It's also getting pretty tiring hearing about so many little things under the title of "EPIC FAIL" I seen so many hate posts that just want to take a poke at GW2. I'm surprised I haven't been reading "Too Much Butter, another Anet EPIC FAIL" threads. So remember that the frustrations are on both sides of the fence.
As for the zerg thing in WvW, I've never understood it. How do you not have a zerg when there is 100 people vs?
Look at DAOC for that answer-
Thre will always be some "zergishness" (is that a word- lol) to mass combat- But having specialized classes required far more complex strategy (and less Zerg) while mass combat ensued. In GW2 its so far just spamming buttons with everyone else and the largest group with the fastest spamming skills wins.
well, I never played DAOC so I can't say much about that, but spamming buttons is a personal problem. You really should admit that if that is the case, the only "player skill" a person can represent, is their own. So I would be inclined to dispute your position on the WvW because you don't know what other people are doing, yet still claim to know so.
See, I was under the impression that a "zerg" as such, was just a mass of people rushing from one point to the next, in which I don't see how mass combat could be organized better without being the responsibility of the players.
And being that the specialized classes is still present in GW2, it implies to me that you may not recognize all aspects of the various classes yet, and therefore may be having difficulty in perceiving the value that each individual class may bring to the table.
So, as a GW2 fan, I hope that I haven't "attacked you" even though I disagree with your position on WvW because I feel that you are currently drawing a conclusion from incomplete experience.
No way man- You (and most of us here) have been having a pretty good conversation here. We do not nessasarily agree but most (you included) are making our points with maturity and tact.
I will try to find a good video or article explaining the mass combat in DAOC and link it (to not derail the subject) but it can be done and requires very specialized characters. In cases like this even a small group can defeat a mass using tactics and strategy. I do not see this with GW2.
Yes, I pretty much spam in WVW (havnt done a ton -) and it looks to me that numbers are the determining factor in success and failure.
No. I am not versed in the various aspects of the classes. I am playing quite casually and taking my time enjoying the game. I am basing my views on what I have witnessed so far in my own experience and what I have read (even the things cited as "positives"). I am having fun while playing but at this time see that it will not hold my (or most peoples) attention for too long once endgame is reached. At this point every time a new Xpac comes out, most will buy it as that is "the game" (the journey not the end)-
so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.
Considering the number of PUGs that tell you to have ilevel 3 billion and to have every achievement for every raid to do an obsolete tier, no.
so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?
Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.
Highlighted the important part.
so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.
Sure you could compete with them. You wouldn't perform any better than someone jumping into WvWvW though with full blues compared to someone with full level 80 exotics. Same with explorable dungeons, you'd be licking the floor most fights.
so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?
Umm.. then you never played WoW back when gear mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.
Highlighted the important part.
Regardless. It still takes a while to get the full set. Much longer than a few weeks of grinding. Then the next tier comes out and you're at it again. So honestly I'm missing the fact that this game is any longer considering once you get that full set, you're done and you don't have to worry about grinding again since there won't be another tier of gear until maybe an expansion comes out.
I will watch the Video later if I have time- But honestly I do not need to...Pretty sure I know whats said.
I agree too- It does lack longevity. Its not a full fledged MMORPG (more like an ARPG with Massive Online components). Its very casual...
But, its fun. And it doesnt need Longevity like a subscription title,
GW2 has done some very creative marketing and essentially sold a F2P cash shop game for $50- $60. Then they will get a small Xpac out every year or so for another $40- $50. Most have at least purchased Bag space from the CS... They are making money hand over fist and do not NEED high player retention (just enough to keep the servers active) and each Xpac will bring an influx of former players back to the game for a short time.
This was a genius marketing Blitz. And the game is fun.
No. It doesnt have "staying power" and if it were based on a "sub" I would feel pretty ripped off and (obviously) not re sub...But they already sold me a box and some Bag Space and I play a few hours a week (and plan to play at a casual rate) and it makes a nice second Online game to play while taking a break from your main Game.
I am happy.
curious in your opinion as to how it's not a full fledged MMO?
My guess is because there is no gear grind to become and/or remain competitive. It is there for vanity (in the end it's just a game, even stats are for vanity), it's just not mandatory and it's not padded with weekly/daily timers either.
Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.
so i could jump into wow right now with entry pvp gear and compete against people in full gladiator>? Or be usefull in the hardest raids with not a single piece of raid gear?
Umm.. then you never played WoW back when gear mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.
Highlighted the important part.
Regardless. It still takes a while to get the full set. Much longer than a few weeks of grinding. Then the next tier comes out and you're at it again. So honestly I'm missing the fact that this game is any longer considering once you get that full set, you're done and you don't have to worry about grinding again since there won't be another tier of gear until maybe an expansion comes out.
So the positive of GW2 > games like WoW isn't the fact that there is no treadmill, there obviously is, but that it is on a lower speed than WoWs? 7-10 months (wow patches) vs 1 yr (GW expansions). Hmm. I guess.
I appreciate the OP's opinion, and I certainly can't predict the future... but I can say that right now the following things are true for me.
I am level 51 on my main.
I have 95 hours logged into my main character.
I have 4 other characters between levels 5 and 6 that i have not played since the first or second day, and I plan on playing all of them eventually.
I have seen 25% of the world.
I have barely dabbled with crafting.
I have done a couple hours of WvWvW and can't wait to get into that as my end game.
I have not done any SPvP yet.
I have not run any dungeons yet in any of their modes.
I love the hand painted look and feel of the world.
I love the fluff and attention to detail, and all of the little details that pop up daily for me.
I love the design and lore.
I love the skill/trait system and the combat and combos.
I love the players I have met and socialized with, and am currently in the process (after lots of evaluation on my part) of joining a fantastic bunch of players in a guild.
I am more juiced about this game now than I was at any point in time prior to this. And that has consistantly been the case on a daily basis so far.
My entire opinion may change at some point in time, like I said I can not perdict the future. I do not think the game is flawless, I run into bugs once in a while but they have been very few and far in between thus far for me.
At only 95 hours in I still have an enormous amount of content ahead of me, and WvWvW is my ideal end game as Camelot held the best end game for me ever, and I couldn't care less about any realm rank system (although i would not be against this either and I recognize that some folks want this so they can enhoy WvW)
I can easily see this lasting a long time for me. It has what it takes for me, as did a few other mmorpgs throughout time... UO, EQ1, AC1, DAoC. This were the ones I played for years, and GW2 is giving me those same feelings now.
So, for me, it has a high chance of longevity. Minus any massive changes that go against what is there right now.
Comments
Yes, I work too . In fact most of us probably do. Glad you mentioned how you do enough of that at work or Irl (which you have) blah, blah.
I just dont get why you would play an online game then- really. You do not want to rely on others so its either pure competition or showing off (while not being social anyhow)-
The new breed of gamer I guess...
I guess I am old. =(
So... you think this because a YouTube video tells you to think this?
A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies, the man who never reads lives only one.
We will always remember your sacrifice, Louisoux!
I fyou guys don't stop with the MASSIVE quotes, I'm going to start reporting you!
OMG GW2 is dead people are leaving and droves (this happens after any launch some people just wont like it)
OMG GW2 Devs totally lied to us about *add moan* (Yep this is what we call not reading the devs posts and listening to some guy you meet online)
OMG GW2 is free to play it cant be any good (think in that past and you can live in it, have fun pig farming in the dark ages)
OMG GW2 has nothing to do (leveled to 80 as fast as they can, doesn't even know about 90% of the content or what you can do at 80)
I can go on and on and on, all of this has been leveled at every mmo over the last few years, and yet they keep making them because the OMG crew come and go, mostly onto the next game and try and ruin it by crying about how short there attention span is and how everyone else should entertain them.
Oh for the record GW2 is not really the game for me, PvP involves and gun when I play and the PvE just isnt there for me, but I still give it props for being a good game because everyone I talk to is enjoying it.
GW2 cured my cancer!
the person narrating the video is the Op
EQ2 fan sites
saw you have crafting in there.. nm anyway crafting doesn't take long my guildy got his set in less than a week
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
No, he posted a link because he made the YouTube video and didn't feel like transcribing it for you.
Please quote these massive quotes so I will know which quotes to avoid quoting to avoid the report button. =P
Too good of a discussion to erase even a letter of a word.
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
Never said it was. Karma gear doesn't even have the stat build most classes would want in PVP. Any avenue you take to get Exotics is going to be a large grind. Unless of course you pay into the cash shop and buy gold > buy exotics or crafting materials for exotics. Most people aren't going to have the gold to purchase them when they hit 80.
Umm.. then you never played WoW back when ger mattered. Back when DKP was the only way you got gear and it would take you countless weeks to get pieces of gear because only a few pieces dropped a night and you either waited or bought pieces from badges which still took 2-3 weeks per piece. But honestly, you've been 80 for how long and how many epics do you have? Because I have epic weapon, 1 accessory, and 4 pieces of armor and I hardly have played since I hit 80 and only been 80 maybe a week or 2. But you call WoW easy? Maybe since they dumbed everything down to the point where they started handing people epics for participation.
misread your post and edited my previous post
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
well, I never played DAOC so I can't say much about that, but spamming buttons is a personal problem. You really should admit that if that is the case, the only "player skill" a person can represent, is their own. So I would be inclined to dispute your position on the WvW because you don't know what other people are doing, yet still claim to know so.
See, I was under the impression that a "zerg" as such, was just a mass of people rushing from one point to the next, in which I don't see how mass combat could be organized better without being the responsibility of the players.
And being that the specialized classes is still present in GW2, it implies to me that you may not recognize all aspects of the various classes yet, and therefore may be having difficulty in perceiving the value that each individual class may bring to the table.
So, as a GW2 fan, I hope that I haven't "attacked you" even though I disagree with your position on WvW because I feel that you are currently drawing a conclusion from incomplete experience.
Highlighted the important part.
so you are saying I could compete right now with entry level pvp gear against the top geared players or be useful in any raid with entry level epics? honest question as I haven't played wow in a few years.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
No way man- You (and most of us here) have been having a pretty good conversation here. We do not nessasarily agree but most (you included) are making our points with maturity and tact.
I will try to find a good video or article explaining the mass combat in DAOC and link it (to not derail the subject) but it can be done and requires very specialized characters. In cases like this even a small group can defeat a mass using tactics and strategy. I do not see this with GW2.
Yes, I pretty much spam in WVW (havnt done a ton -) and it looks to me that numbers are the determining factor in success and failure.
No. I am not versed in the various aspects of the classes. I am playing quite casually and taking my time enjoying the game. I am basing my views on what I have witnessed so far in my own experience and what I have read (even the things cited as "positives"). I am having fun while playing but at this time see that it will not hold my (or most peoples) attention for too long once endgame is reached. At this point every time a new Xpac comes out, most will buy it as that is "the game" (the journey not the end)-
Considering the number of PUGs that tell you to have ilevel 3 billion and to have every achievement for every raid to do an obsolete tier, no.
Sure you could compete with them. You wouldn't perform any better than someone jumping into WvWvW though with full blues compared to someone with full level 80 exotics. Same with explorable dungeons, you'd be licking the floor most fights.
Regardless. It still takes a while to get the full set. Much longer than a few weeks of grinding. Then the next tier comes out and you're at it again. So honestly I'm missing the fact that this game is any longer considering once you get that full set, you're done and you don't have to worry about grinding again since there won't be another tier of gear until maybe an expansion comes out.
Yeah, there's a certain type of player that can only measure their success by the 'teh lewtz' they get. GW2 isn't the game for them.
So the positive of GW2 > games like WoW isn't the fact that there is no treadmill, there obviously is, but that it is on a lower speed than WoWs? 7-10 months (wow patches) vs 1 yr (GW expansions). Hmm. I guess.
longevity comes from no-sub model. People pick it up for a week or two, take a long break, come back few months later for few weeks again, etc.
Playing: Darkfall Unholy Wars
Played: Darkfall, EVE, AoC, Ryzom, Ragnarok Online, GW2, PS2, Secret World, WOW, City Of Heroes/Villains, Champion Online.
I appreciate the OP's opinion, and I certainly can't predict the future... but I can say that right now the following things are true for me.
I am level 51 on my main.
I have 95 hours logged into my main character.
I have 4 other characters between levels 5 and 6 that i have not played since the first or second day, and I plan on playing all of them eventually.
I have seen 25% of the world.
I have barely dabbled with crafting.
I have done a couple hours of WvWvW and can't wait to get into that as my end game.
I have not done any SPvP yet.
I have not run any dungeons yet in any of their modes.
I love the hand painted look and feel of the world.
I love the fluff and attention to detail, and all of the little details that pop up daily for me.
I love the design and lore.
I love the skill/trait system and the combat and combos.
I love the players I have met and socialized with, and am currently in the process (after lots of evaluation on my part) of joining a fantastic bunch of players in a guild.
I am more juiced about this game now than I was at any point in time prior to this. And that has consistantly been the case on a daily basis so far.
My entire opinion may change at some point in time, like I said I can not perdict the future. I do not think the game is flawless, I run into bugs once in a while but they have been very few and far in between thus far for me.
At only 95 hours in I still have an enormous amount of content ahead of me, and WvWvW is my ideal end game as Camelot held the best end game for me ever, and I couldn't care less about any realm rank system (although i would not be against this either and I recognize that some folks want this so they can enhoy WvW)
I can easily see this lasting a long time for me. It has what it takes for me, as did a few other mmorpgs throughout time... UO, EQ1, AC1, DAoC. This were the ones I played for years, and GW2 is giving me those same feelings now.
So, for me, it has a high chance of longevity. Minus any massive changes that go against what is there right now.