Why did gabby douglas move away from home to go train? It was because of better doctors, facilities, equipment and training. Which she was given the oppertunity to do so because she put in the time and effort to win some earlier events.
I do not have a problem with this in life or gaming.
I love how you snipped the sentence that directly addresses that issue.
"You will always have exceptions to the rules when places do not have uniform quality of living and income."
Or my last remark.
"It's not an individual level thing we are talking about, it's a community affecting scale. And it may not be the only, but it generally a more important factor is the quality and focus of the community in which an individual is raised."
Red herring is not appreciated.
Not intended. Thank you for retyping you point. Forgive me, but I was having trouble making a connection to the conversation at hand.
You are saying all things will be equal at the highest level; unless there are economic issues and/or a lack of community focus?
If you are saying all thing will be equal at the highest level, I agree. I'm not sure economic or social issues have a place in this conversation like it would if we were talking about mice and keyboards.
Originally posted by Cromica All I see is people that are mad because when the playing field is even they have no chance
All I see is people who couldn't succeed in other game's PVP because they didn't want to put in the efort it took to get good so they whined until someone gave them their game Kinda like Pre-K recreational soccer where they don't keep score so none really loses.
Nahh, I don't really see that, but it makes as much sense as your post.
Honestly, you're kinda going a tad bit far don't you think.
Alright I'll play that game. Do you honestly think this game requires any less time to figure out your class, figure out your build and change around your stats? The only difference this game has to any other mmo is that:
1. You get all gear and levels right off the bat, no wait (talking sPvP only). This makes it so everyone is on a level playing field, but the ones who can master their class has the upper advantage. This advantage takes time to master. The only difference is, instead of buying a single set and messing with the gems or whatever, you instead mess with spec and gear and traits constantly.
2. No more gear grind to PvP. By no more gear grind, I mean no more tiers. If you think that the gear grind is the only benefit you get out of PvP, then clearly you're mistaken because with the gear grind came at least a little skill. Now, with no PvP stat, you can build how you want with nothing to hold over your head. The only significant difference is that those without skill and instead the large chunk of time tossed in there will have no advantage besides experience. Sadly thou, if you can't learn, it will come of no help to you.
So go ahead and call it kiddy all you want. I prefer a skill based PvP over gear based anyday. And I think that the gear based is far more Pre-K than skill based. Since instead of the top teams being easy to pick out due to skill in those game, instead it's more based off of what you are wearing. This catters to the younger croud more since even if you stink at PvP, you can still get the gear to beat anyone else. Hurray, participation points with honor and arena points to get gear.
Did you read my post? I mean all of it?
I said what I said to make an example of what extreme or absolutes look like. You will always find groups that will represent both sides, but that's not most. Most players are better than they are told, but not as good as they think.
Ya. Your post wasn't very long. Nor did it really prove your point. Unless you'd like to present an actual counter example, I think I covered all the basis of your argument.
U mad? Like who didn't know GW2 was just a placeholder until something good actually comes along. Even the developers knew that, which is why the game isn't a monthly fee.
Any game in the future that is worth any sort of real time committment will be a monthly fee pay to play model. People think they want no monthly fee, but trust me, no game worth longevity will ever do that.
GW2 is flavor of the month....well quarter really. You will see the population drop significantly over the next 6 months.
The hardcore fanbois, like the ones who used to exist on the SWTOR forums will also jump ship eventually. Those of us with a lot of MMO experience were fortunate enough to know better and get out early or avoid alltogether.
Hey GW1 called. It and it's 8 years and counting beg to differ.
Ya. Your post wasn't very long. Nor did it really prove your point. Unless you'd like to present an actual counter example, I think I covered all the basis of your argument.
I think he means the post was not meant as a true opinion, but to show the silly nature of strong polar opinions by providing a flipside comment using the same tactic as the person he quoted.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
From that point of view, playing any sort of video game is pointless too. That mentality is beyond me, always the need of some sort of progression to make the players feel great about themselves because they could spend more time ingame to earn that "special thing" that the others won't have. That's why I love eSports games over all those games with their stupid progression, because it's all about skills.
These things are not mutually exclusive. You can have progression, recognition, and skills based combat. Your comment doesn't make any sense.
I love how in sandbox games you can get a social standing that is more life-like. Your name will get around if you are extraordinarily evil or helpful to people. Your name gets around if you are an elite crafter, and you run your shop like a customer service pro. That's the kind of recognition I think is fantastic.
GW2 is not like this. As fun as it can be at times, it feels that way because it's only a few levels above Farmville in the amout of skill and thought required. That's true of all recent themepark games, IMO.
I was just think about crafting as I posted some stuff on the trading post. I thought.. who cares? There's 546 other swords just like the one I made, and it's faster to just vendor trash it. No one knows who crafts anything, and no one cares. Some of the most loved people in Star Wars Galaxies were the elite traders. The others were the players who were either attacking people, or defending them often. THAT is mmo gameplay in my opinion.
Screw gear. Give me back some community context.
Hey now, Farmville requires some serious thought! I watch my grandmother play that and it's intense. Where'd your cows go? Where you gonna put that barn, huh!? You're out of money now ...looks like you're screwed.
Fun is subjective - if you are having fun, you play - if you are not, play something else!
This is why some people love sandbox MMOs, some love WoW-type end-game MMOs, some like open world PvP, some like instanced battleground/Arena type PvP....
I mean... call me Captain Obvious here - but you people are saying "I don't like something so what's the point of it??"
The point is - if you don't like it - move on.
I'd tell you the EXACT same thing no matter what game or activity it is.
Wasting everyone's time trying to get other people to explain "it" to you, when "it" is different for each person.
Move on - thanks for stopping by, don't let the door hit you on the way out - and good luck in finding something you enjoy long term!
Translation: I don't like your opinion so you aren't welcome here.
Sorry Spock, I usually find your posts well thought out and on the money, even if I don't agree. But this one is not the case.
We all paid for the game. We all played it but only some of us enjoy it, That in no way has anything to do with our right to come here and discuss our experiences good or bad.
When we speak bullshit we get called out on it, When we get called out on something that isn't bullshit, we defend our positions. When we find something we agree with, we quote it and second the thought. When we see somthing we don't agree with we question it. Tha'ts what we do here.
What's the difference if I say, Go on somewhere else, this is a bitch thread, you are wasting everyone's time?
That does sound silly.
You're TOTALLY ignoring his point about the goal being fun and fun being subjective which, I think, is the main thrust of his post.
It's been said here and other forums ad nauseum: GW2 does NOT rely on the gear treadmill/progression that games like WoW do. This is neither good nor bad. Both games find communities that enjoy them. Fun for you (as I believe you stated in another post) is the gear progression and the the reason you play a game. For others, myself included, it is NOT the end all be all and we find it quite unsatisfying.
So we move on. We quit games, like WoW, that rely on the gear/progresion treadmill. You're being disingenous and even a bit hypocritical to 'translate' Spock's post as "if you don't agree with me, leave" because you're actually making very much the same statement.
Ya. Your post wasn't very long. Nor did it really prove your point. Unless you'd like to present an actual counter example, I think I covered all the basis of your argument.
I think he means the post was not meant as a true opinion, but to show the silly nature of strong polar opinions by providing a flipside comment using the same tactic as the person he quoted.
Ya. Your post wasn't very long. Nor did it really prove your point. Unless you'd like to present an actual counter example, I think I covered all the basis of your argument.
I think he means the post was not meant as a true opinion, but to show the silly nature of strong polar opinions by providing a flipside comment using the same tactic as the person he quoted.
Honestly I beg to differ, only because he has been stating that this game is a "kiddy" game for a while now.
Originally posted by Cromica All I see is people that are mad because when the playing field is even they have no chance
All I see is people who couldn't succeed in other game's PVP because they didn't want to put in the efort it took to get good so they whined until someone gave them their game Kinda like Pre-K recreational soccer where they don't keep score so none really loses.
Nahh, I don't really see that, but it makes as much sense as your post.
Honestly, you're kinda going a tad bit far don't you think.
Alright I'll play that game. Do you honestly think this game requires any less time to figure out your class, figure out your build and change around your stats? The only difference this game has to any other mmo is that:
1. You get all gear and levels right off the bat, no wait (talking sPvP only). This makes it so everyone is on a level playing field, but the ones who can master their class has the upper advantage. This advantage takes time to master. The only difference is, instead of buying a single set and messing with the gems or whatever, you instead mess with spec and gear and traits constantly.
2. No more gear grind to PvP. By no more gear grind, I mean no more tiers. If you think that the gear grind is the only benefit you get out of PvP, then clearly you're mistaken because with the gear grind came at least a little skill. Now, with no PvP stat, you can build how you want with nothing to hold over your head. The only significant difference is that those without skill and instead the large chunk of time tossed in there will have no advantage besides experience. Sadly thou, if you can't learn, it will come of no help to you.
So go ahead and call it kiddy all you want. I prefer a skill based PvP over gear based anyday. And I think that the gear based is far more Pre-K than skill based. Since instead of the top teams being easy to pick out due to skill in those game, instead it's more based off of what you are wearing. This catters to the younger croud more since even if you stink at PvP, you can still get the gear to beat anyone else. Hurray, participation points with honor and arena points to get gear.
Did you read my post? I mean all of it?
I said what I said to make an example of what extreme or absolutes look like. You will always find groups that will represent both sides, but that's not most. Most players are better than they are told, but not as good as they think.
Ya. Your post wasn't very long. Nor did it really prove your point. Unless you'd like to present an actual counter example, I think I covered all the basis of your argument.
WHOA! Colors. That makes it more understandable now.
U mad? Like who didn't know GW2 was just a placeholder until something good actually comes along. Even the developers knew that, which is why the game isn't a monthly fee.
Any game in the future that is worth any sort of real time committment will be a monthly fee pay to play model. People think they want no monthly fee, but trust me, no game worth longevity will ever do that.
GW2 is flavor of the month....well quarter really. You will see the population drop significantly over the next 6 months.
The hardcore fanbois, like the ones who used to exist on the SWTOR forums will also jump ship eventually. Those of us with a lot of MMO experience were fortunate enough to know better and get out early or avoid alltogether.
You are obviously out of touch with the reality of the economic models for the future of online gaming. I would trust your claim more if you seemed to know what you are talking about, but alas that has not happened here.
LOL, economic models for the future of online gaming? We'll see bud.
Have you missed the trend of the last few years? Have you not read anything about online gaming or seen interviews with the people in charge of those decisions?
Yes, the trend is F2P and item store games suck and the people in charge of those decisions have no Fing idea what they're doing. So ya, I have been paying attention.
Mark my words, 12 months from now, the only great AAA MMOs will be monthy fees, and another 36 months after that, it will be the same thing.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
Fun is subjective - if you are having fun, you play - if you are not, play something else!
This is why some people love sandbox MMOs, some love WoW-type end-game MMOs, some like open world PvP, some like instanced battleground/Arena type PvP....
I mean... call me Captain Obvious here - but you people are saying "I don't like something so what's the point of it??"
The point is - if you don't like it - move on.
I'd tell you the EXACT same thing no matter what game or activity it is.
Wasting everyone's time trying to get other people to explain "it" to you, when "it" is different for each person.
Move on - thanks for stopping by, don't let the door hit you on the way out - and good luck in finding something you enjoy long term!
Translation: I don't like your opinion so you aren't welcome here.
Sorry Spock, I usually find your posts well thought out and on the money, even if I don't agree. But this one is not the case.
We all paid for the game. We all played it but only some of us enjoy it, That in no way has anything to do with our right to come here and discuss our experiences good or bad.
When we speak bullshit we get called out on it, When we get called out on something that isn't bullshit, we defend our positions. When we find something we agree with, we quote it and second the thought. When we see somthing we don't agree with we question it. Tha'ts what we do here.
What's the difference if I say, Go on somewhere else, this is a bitch thread, you are wasting everyone's time?
That does sound silly.
You're TOTALLY ignoring his point about the goal being fun and fun being subjective which, I think, is the main thrust of his post.
It's been said here and other forums ad nauseum: GW2 does NOT rely on the gear treadmill/progression that games like WoW do. This is neither good nor bad. Both games find communities that enjoy them. Fun for you (as I believe you stated in another post) is the gear progression and the the reason you play a game. For others, myself included, it is NOT the end all be all and we find it quite unsatisfying.
So we move on. We quit games, like WoW, that rely on the gear/progresion treadmill. You're being disingenous and even a bit hypocritical to 'translate' Spock's post as "if you don't agree with me, leave" because you're actually making very much the same statement.
You are correct. Because I didn't have an issue with that part of his post.
U mad? Like who didn't know GW2 was just a placeholder until something good actually comes along. Even the developers knew that, which is why the game isn't a monthly fee.
Any game in the future that is worth any sort of real time committment will be a monthly fee pay to play model. People think they want no monthly fee, but trust me, no game worth longevity will ever do that.
GW2 is flavor of the month....well quarter really. You will see the population drop significantly over the next 6 months.
The hardcore fanbois, like the ones who used to exist on the SWTOR forums will also jump ship eventually. Those of us with a lot of MMO experience were fortunate enough to know better and get out early or avoid alltogether.
You are obviously out of touch with the reality of the economic models for the future of online gaming. I would trust your claim more if you seemed to know what you are talking about, but alas that has not happened here.
LOL, economic models for the future of online gaming? We'll see bud.
Have you missed the trend of the last few years? Have you not read anything about online gaming or seen interviews with the people in charge of those decisions?
Yes, the trend is F2P and item store games suck and the people in charge of those decisions have no Fing idea what they're doing. So ya, I have been paying attention.
Mark my words, 12 months from now, the only great AAA MMOs will be monthy fees, and another 36 months after that, it will be the same thing.
Then you have not actually learned anything. If you had you would know that the F2P cash shop model makes more money for those games than a subscription would. Now I am not claiming they make better games, they make more money. And that is what those people want. To say the people making those decisions have no clue tells me you have not spent any time running a business or in charge of anything.
I mark your words as those of a person who has not yet learned what drives what in this world.
Your missing the point, all these thing you mention do not make your character/avatar advance or become stonger etc. It's all just cosmetic.
It's not about crying in fact you have it all wrong. The cry babies are those that can't put effort into making their avatar stronger or better . The cry babies are the ones that want all classes to be balanced in all aspects and all gear of same type to have the same stats etc etc so it fair in pvp.
I'm sorry but i will not grind a dungeon becuase i want my armor to match the color of my eyes or this one has spikes and that one doesn't, I will however grind a dungeon if it will give me better gear that will allow me to go pvp with a distinct advantage and make the "cry babies" cry .
All I can say is I am glad that GW2 completely goes against your preferred gaming style. Go away. Seriously, play other MMO's instead of trying to change this gem to suit your taste.
Originally posted by SirFubar From that point of view, playing any sort of video game is pointless too.
I disagree. In other MMOs you can be better than other players by obtaining the best gear and being able to accomplish things that are not possible for them. I want recognition, I want to be known as one of the best in some catagory. This game does not offer that, the game has absolutely no purpose at all. There is no benefit to being level 80 when you could just be level 10. This game is really confusing and it isn't looking like it will have a bright future.
Try being a level 10 and beating a level 80 one on one in PvP. Almost impossible.
There will be tournaments shortly, that way you can be the super awesome player that you want to be and have everyone know it.
There are Titles and Achievements.
Of course, this game takes skill rather than gear to be better than the next level 80. Maybe that's what you don't like. The fact that your gear doesn't hide your lack of skill could be why it seems pointless.
And, finally, it's a video game. Ultimately, they're all pointless.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
Is a track star rewarded with the ability to use steroids for his next major race when he wins? No. He gets a medal.
What that track star gets along with the trophy are better doctors, better facilties, better equipment to train with and to perform in. All of which increase their chance in the next race.
As does every other track star at that level. So, pro track stars = level 80 players in PvP. All have basically the same training, doctors, equipment, etc. The winner is the one with the most skill...at least that day.
Unless of course they cheat. Which is a whole other topic.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Edit: Unless that benefit is purely aesthetic, then its A-OK (logical dissonance what?)
Is a track star rewarded with the ability to use steroids for his next major race when he wins? No. He gets a medal.
What that track star gets along with the trophy are better doctors, better facilties, better equipment to train with and to perform in. All of which increase their chance in the next race.
As does every other track star at that level. So, pro track stars = level 80 players in PvP. All have basically the same training, doctors, equipment, etc. The winner is the one with the most skill...at least that day.
Unless of course they cheat. Which is a whole other topic.
As it is in WoW or any other mmo with power progression once you reach "that level". Why is it then so important to get rid of progression on the way to "that level"?
You cant just say "whats the point in playing any game?" That's a valid point here when it's not about ANY game its guild wars 2. When you play any other offline rpg there is story and you play to finish the game/enjoy the story. Then you stop palying and buy another once you have finished When you play an mmorpg you do the same story, level up, get shiny items and you can do all that with friends. But instead of buying another game you are meant to keep playing and in most case keep paying. To do this the content must still be fun and there must still be a reason people want to do it. As was pointed out, there is no real drive to go do it. Once you hit 80 going back to a lvl 1-15 area to get nothing of worth to you until you do all the areas and get 3% of a legendary wep that will take the better part of a month to finish that offers no better stats then the lvl 80 exotic you can buy for 3-5 gold. Sure this may be what some people are happy to do, but isnt an mmorpg meant to appeal to the masses? I dont play and will never play WoW but that's what it has done. Appeal to everyone in alot of areas and keep their interests. I was a big fan boy for GW2 but now that im 80 with full exotic set and a few good hours of WvsW under my belt, there doesnt seem like there is much else to do... maybe what was meant to be asked was "What now?"
If being a new-age socialist that loves Guild Wars 2 is wrong...
I don't want to be right!
As alholic have 8 alts currently between 10 and 14 as I love to level usually contemporanely. So far I'm having a blast. Game have many many small and big candies all along the road. But will see later. Currently will have to take detour for MOP, but first time I'm sorry for this. But in this case also not having sub works in this direction. :-)
Btw, is not socialism but american capitalism that have seriously f...up this entire world in all senses.
I guess I'm missing something... but actually PLAYING the game is part of the point, no? PvP in itself is a good time, and while it would be nice to have some progression like is being noted, I can hardly call the game pointless. If you don't find PvP fun, then move along. It's the same concept as finishing the single player in an FPS, and then playing the multiplayer afterwards.
Comments
Not intended. Thank you for retyping you point. Forgive me, but I was having trouble making a connection to the conversation at hand.
You are saying all things will be equal at the highest level; unless there are economic issues and/or a lack of community focus?
If you are saying all thing will be equal at the highest level, I agree. I'm not sure economic or social issues have a place in this conversation like it would if we were talking about mice and keyboards.
Ya. Your post wasn't very long. Nor did it really prove your point. Unless you'd like to present an actual counter example, I think I covered all the basis of your argument.
He saw yt and took it.
Hey GW1 called. It and it's 8 years and counting beg to differ.
I think he means the post was not meant as a true opinion, but to show the silly nature of strong polar opinions by providing a flipside comment using the same tactic as the person he quoted.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
These things are not mutually exclusive. You can have progression, recognition, and skills based combat. Your comment doesn't make any sense.
Hey now, Farmville requires some serious thought! I watch my grandmother play that and it's intense. Where'd your cows go? Where you gonna put that barn, huh!? You're out of money now ...looks like you're screwed.
You're TOTALLY ignoring his point about the goal being fun and fun being subjective which, I think, is the main thrust of his post.
It's been said here and other forums ad nauseum: GW2 does NOT rely on the gear treadmill/progression that games like WoW do. This is neither good nor bad. Both games find communities that enjoy them. Fun for you (as I believe you stated in another post) is the gear progression and the the reason you play a game. For others, myself included, it is NOT the end all be all and we find it quite unsatisfying.
So we move on. We quit games, like WoW, that rely on the gear/progresion treadmill. You're being disingenous and even a bit hypocritical to 'translate' Spock's post as "if you don't agree with me, leave" because you're actually making very much the same statement.
fricken english major!
Honestly I beg to differ, only because he has been stating that this game is a "kiddy" game for a while now.
WHOA! Colors. That makes it more understandable now.
Still don't think you did
Yes, the trend is F2P and item store games suck and the people in charge of those decisions have no Fing idea what they're doing. So ya, I have been paying attention.
Mark my words, 12 months from now, the only great AAA MMOs will be monthy fees, and another 36 months after that, it will be the same thing.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com
You are correct. Because I didn't have an issue with that part of his post.
Then you have not actually learned anything. If you had you would know that the F2P cash shop model makes more money for those games than a subscription would. Now I am not claiming they make better games, they make more money. And that is what those people want. To say the people making those decisions have no clue tells me you have not spent any time running a business or in charge of anything.
I mark your words as those of a person who has not yet learned what drives what in this world.
Guess this conversation ends with a personal attack having nothing to do with the topic. Good day sir.
All I can say is I am glad that GW2 completely goes against your preferred gaming style. Go away. Seriously, play other MMO's instead of trying to change this gem to suit your taste.
Oh, so the pretty colors was such a better comment.
Then I will stick with exactly what you have been stating.
Did you read all my post? Because I don't see where I strayed from your post with it. Hence the colors.
If you want recognition, play real life.
If you can't handle that, a game is not going to give you anything worthwhile--it is, after all, just a device for entertainment.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
Try being a level 10 and beating a level 80 one on one in PvP. Almost impossible.
There will be tournaments shortly, that way you can be the super awesome player that you want to be and have everyone know it.
There are Titles and Achievements.
Of course, this game takes skill rather than gear to be better than the next level 80. Maybe that's what you don't like. The fact that your gear doesn't hide your lack of skill could be why it seems pointless.
And, finally, it's a video game. Ultimately, they're all pointless.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
As does every other track star at that level. So, pro track stars = level 80 players in PvP. All have basically the same training, doctors, equipment, etc. The winner is the one with the most skill...at least that day.
Unless of course they cheat. Which is a whole other topic.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
As it is in WoW or any other mmo with power progression once you reach "that level". Why is it then so important to get rid of progression on the way to "that level"?
As alholic have 8 alts currently between 10 and 14 as I love to level usually contemporanely. So far I'm having a blast. Game have many many small and big candies all along the road. But will see later. Currently will have to take detour for MOP, but first time I'm sorry for this. But in this case also not having sub works in this direction. :-)
Btw, is not socialism but american capitalism that have seriously f...up this entire world in all senses.