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PvE server for darkfall UW?
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Isn't saying there should NOT be a PvE server the same thing?
I get the argument a gainst in for Darkfall just based on numbers alone. . but so many games people get all fiery when someone wants a PVE server. I know it takes the sheep away to farm but seriously.
Also for every PVE game I have played there has been a vocal minority screaming for a full PVP server even though those are rarely successful because the game was not designed for it.
For Darkfall I Used to wish there was a PvE only server because I wanted to explore and just play away. . after a few weeks I raelized how boring that would become and that one of the reasons I liked the game was beacause it had that element of danger.. same reason I love/hate MO.
I don't think it would work but I don't see the harm in having one either.. . does it destroy your game on the PvP server if the other does exist?
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Wrong again, having them adjust the game to accomodate half a million subs or more makes, perfect sense. Stop acting like this is an fing mona lisa. This is software code and software code is meant to be CHANGED.
Here's an idea. Contact AV. Tell them you'd love to play DF:UW, but only on a PvE server. Ask them what their expenses would be to implement such an idea, for initial development and then to get it off the ground, including the first month or two's sub fees. Then propose starting a Kickstarter campaign to raise funds for it. See if they'll get on board with such an idea.
If they are, then get everyone interested to donate to the Kickstarter fund. If you reach the required amount, then you will have proven that
A) There's sufficient player interest to make it worth their while
C) AV will actually have enough money to make it happen.
If you're that keen on seeing it happen, then certainly donating the cost of a game box shouldn't dissuade you?
Even if they don't go for it, you've at least made yourself heard beyond posting haphazard suggestions on a message forum, no?
If it started to divert resouces away from AV's original vision then it would negitively affect the people who want DFO to remain fairly pure in design concept.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
you sir are off ur meds.... u counter his point that THIS IS A PVP GAME , and u want a PVE game (that will never happen ) ---and u tell him to " dont play it if u dont like it" ..LMFAO , sorry but this is the best post i have seen in this entire 14 page arguement -----u just said what EVERYONE is saying about this veing a PVP game and dont play it if u dont like it., and u reply back with the same thing ..but to support ur reason for a PVE server ... HAHAHAHAH
kettle meet pot .
Which part is "wrong again" exactly? Try put up specific, valid counterpoints and I might take you a bit more seriously.
"Hurr it's code it can be changedz", is a piss poor argument.
Changing the fundamentals of the game takes alot of time and hence a significant portion of money. Given we are talking about a small, indie company and given we are talking about a company which has expressed zero interest in deviating from their core pvp principles, the idea of whacking in pve servers is simply ludicrous. Even before you consider the subsequent support and development concerns of running essentially two game variants.
Some people need to start to grasp the fact that not every single game out there needs to be tailored to their needs. Is there scope for a quality pve sandbox? Sounds like crap to me but yes. Now should that be done via butchering Darkfall, a game centred on ffa, full loot pvp? Nope, that should be as clear as day to anyone with a modicum of common sense.
Maybe you should spend time petitioning Blizzard to make skill based, sandbox, pve servers for WoW. After all it's only code not the fing Mona Lisa. Moreoever they have a larger team and more money to make it happen. Quick get on the WoW forums and get asking, go, go, go!!!!
Oh and at people using the argument "They should want to make money". Er they do, but they don't want to completely destroy the vision of the game thay they want to make, just to squeeze out some extra dollars. For all their faults, thank God we still have companies in the genre that think like that.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Darkfall is the type of game that only ever wants to have 1 server. Its just like Eve online that has 1 server for the entire world, but sadly Darkfall is also half a FPS game, and pings higher than 200+ do not allow for a fluid gaming experience. So Darkfall has two servers, one for EU and NA (they are thinking about one more for Ocianic)
The main reason though as to why there will never be a PVE server, is because Darkfall is a Conquest game. Where players are supposed to fight for holdings (Citys and Hamlets). This would not be possible on a PVE server, I guess there could be a trading city feature added but why bother really? Darkfall has a very lack luster PVE experience also, and is really just a nessacery evil, to at the end of the day, PVP.
You had some typos there, I fixed them and added some stufff just to make it clearer.
NO NO NO and NO
Darkfall is a hardcore PVP full loot open world game, its not suppose to be an easy mode PVE game.
If you dont like what Darkfall is then dont play..
Well stated. It's amazing how people think it's as simple as just "turning off PvP" and "voila" PvE server, with absolutely no thought or consideration for the cost in man-hours, hardware, bandwidth, etc. to produce and maintain it. It certainly explains how they can so easily use arguments like "they just flick a switch and turn it off" or "it's not the f'ing Mona Lisa" - both of those being equally ridiculous and uninformed assertions if one has even the absolute most basic understanding of programming and how complicated it can be to balance and interweave multiple complex systems into one big functioning whole.
I also agree that the "they need/want/should want to make money!" is a ridiculous and, again, poorly thought through argument. We're talking about a developer who went headlong into a genre where FFA PvP with full looting is a small niche, and invested the time and money into creating one anyway. They knew the risks and they knew the limited potential from the time they draw their first line of concept art. They aren't in this "for the money". They're in this to create a specific kind of game that they want to play, and that they know there are others who want to as well.
It's like telling someone opening an independent, "mom and pop" pizzeria that they "should want to make money, and the best way to do that is to open a location for one of the well-known chains instead, like Pizza Hut or Papa John's. After all more people know and like the pizza chains than would probably like their own recipe". The people opening mom and pop pizzerias aren't doing it "for the money", they're doing it for the love of owning their own pizzeria, selling their own unique recipes, from their own hand-made menus, in their own place, with their own decor and style and ambiance. The idea is that enough people like it and they earn enough customers to keep them in business, and continue doing what they love doing.
As you explained (and I touched on earlier), AV would essentially be running two different MMORPGs at that point, and having to give each version equal attention specific to its gameplay style, else they run the risk of one side claiming the other is being favored and they're being neglected. An already small team of about 30 people would have the task of doing for essentially two MMOs, what much bigger companies struggle to do with just one.
As I suggested, people could approach AV with the proposition of starting up a Kickstarter fund to generate the money required to create and launch a PvE server. Let those who are truly committed to the idea - and don't just want AV to take on 100% of the risk and cost on something that has no guarantee of being worth it in the end - put their money where their mouth is and show how dedicated they are to seeing it happen. Take some of the risk on themselves. And it'snot even like it's a "real" risk. Kickstarter doesn't take your money unless/until the goal is reached. It would be a symbolic gesture up to that point.
Somehow I doubt people are that committed to the premise though. They'll happily make every suggestion they can think up, as long as they're not the ones paying for it.
Darkfall is a PvP MMO. Leave it alone.
If spineless jellyfish like me want PvE only content .... then look elsewhere at other MMOs. If it gets changed that radically (PvE only content) then it will get ruined.
Darkfall is a MMO for people that like to PvP... don't change it.
(There... now the village idiot (me) has spoken his insane ramblings and now this question can be put to rest and the thread closed.)
This is true.
I don't care either way, but I would say a stronger PvE model would be easily achieved with DF. There's a large sandbox following that enjoy the world / social building aspects of sandbox PvE. I would expect a larger player base would be interested in a PvE server and/or expanded PvE aspects to a PvP server.
From a business perspective, it would make sense as they could use additional PvE player base to fund PvP + PvE functionality.
So, AV should make the game they aren't interested in making. Then, maybe if they do well enough and make enough money above and beyond supporting the PvE version alone, they can reward themselves by making the game they actually wanted to make to begin with.
Yeah.. that's perfectly logical. Do some of you people even think through these suggestions before you make them? Honestly.
I feel like I'm witnessing the equivalent of a bunch of people standing outside a vegetarian restaurant trying to argue/haggle/plead with the owners to expand their restaurant to include a meat menu. "Seriously, maybe you could just make the meat-serving version of the restaurant first, and then use those funds to create the vegetarian menu you actually wanted to offer in the first place. That is the most sound business advice you will ever get and you'd be a fool not to agree!".
Maybe people looking for a sandbox experience sans PvP could go play Wurm Online, or A Tale In The Desert instead? It's actually a much more rational suggestion than the one you just put forth.
Attempting to use "Business Perspective" on a MMO usually tends to result in a broken product. Real Life examples far too numerous to list here.
It is considered "OK" to "swap customers" in the retail business world.... if they changed Darkfall by adding a PvE only server that is what the Devs would be doing. it is NOT "OK" to change a MMO product and drive away many of it's Player customers just to get the bigger group of Player customers.
I don't even play Darkfall and I know it's the wrong thing to do. Why? Because I have respect for the Players that DO play Darkfall NOW.
Yeah, just ask SOE how selling out their existing playerbase in hopes of attracting a bigger one worked out for them.
That got real ugly real fast. And SOE actually had the funds to withstand the backlash. A small indie company like AV wouldn't.
To me it's not about whether the MMO Publisher does or doesn't have the funds to survive the backlash...
It's about whether it's right or wrong from the perspective of the Player's themselves.... who ultimately fund the MMO ironically.
When a MMO Publisher offers a MMO for sale.... they are not selling a product... they are BUYING the loyalties of Player customers. I get the impression most MMO Publishers lose sight of that little tid bit.
Todays standards extreme hardcore PvE server with CRZ and dungeon finder tools in DF PvE server.
What kind of game could it be.
It will automatically throw players to areas wheres someone PvEing and it forces you to group with them and PvE with them no matter what they do.
If somebody kills some monster,monster wont die ,you can kill it also(somehow,next Blizzards invention) ,like gathering in GW2.
hmm
If you to try attack other player you start phasing where you fight against clone of that player,mm too PvPish ,if someone gets attacked by NPC then AI takes control and you must watch how your character heals and helps other player who is PvEing.
Some ways how to dumb down DF.
Let's internet
I don't care much about DF, but I hope they never cave into the MMOMob which floats its demands from game to game. For once in this era, an indie dev who is quite sucessful for what they are trying to do does not toss in its vision to seek the mass. They aren't selling out...not to big business nor to the angry homeless crowd.
Some of you are criticizing DF for doing exact what you criticized the bigger devs of not doing... creating and playing a game to their desire.
What a ridiculous argument.
Sofware code is meant to be changed only to the effect of doing its intended job as efficiently and consistently as possible, by fixing bugs, optimizing code, etc. Once the code is doing what it's designed to on a satisfactory level, "to spec", then the idea is to not change it. Specific bits of code can remain unchanged for years so long as it's doing what it's intended to.
This is why there's "code freeze" in software development. This is what Beta testing is intended to represent - the software is feature complete, all assets are in place, and now it's being tested for bugs or other issues in order to get it to "gold" status.
The point of software code is to change it as little as possible, and only when absolutely necessary.
To say "AV should change DF:UW to be more PvE instead of PvP because code is meant to be changed" is a pretty damn weak argument.
One flaw I see in a lot of the arguments is the assumption that DF would automatically get more subscriptions if they had a PvE shard. It doesn't necessarily follow that DF would get more subscriptions. The thing is, if they did have a PvE shard, they would have to get enough new subscriptions that both the PvE and PvP shards would feel at least as populated as the PvP shards are now. If it didn't work, they would be killing the game.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
PVE in Darkfall was never a strong point.. sure it has some of the best AI out there... they attack, run away, dodge ranged attacks, go get mates, range attack you, close into melee and usually a combination of them all.. but still the game was not designed around PVE and anyone playing the game just for PVE would probally find a very very empty world and get bored really fast..
The main thing about darkfall is that you would PVE but you where always on edge as you know any second you could get jumped by a real player and maybe loose everything you have looted.. its a rush and without that rush and the PVP that brings Darkfall would be a very boring world...
I don't think you players understand it very much. A pure PvP game does work in its own way but when you have both you have a larger community and it creates more fun. You need to have PvE in all PvP games no matter what. If the game was all PvP than it would just be a FPS, which this game is not. It is supposed to simulate living in a harsh environment where the rules are be who you would like.
Think about how it was when the US became a country. There was plenty of places that allowed you to go and live but it was dangerous because there could be savages or bad people that would hurt you or take advantage of you. As you got closer to the larger communities there were laws and such. It all cannot be like the wild, you need to take a break somewhere.
Personally I enjoy the game as a red player, but that does not mean I will shut out the PvE community. They provide me with so much more than just my kill death ratio. Don't think of it as taking over your world, think of it as adding in a governed town that you can manipulate and take advantage of.
Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com
Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums
I would love to see a PVE server.. Not sure why so many are addamently against it, since there would most likely be an option for players to move over to PVP if they wanted to.
Is it because the PVP community fears most will jump at the chance to go PVE is the option was open reducing the population on the PVP servers, or is ti because they need those noobs to hunt down to satsify something they get by doing so?
I enjoyed the world in DF1, liked to explore fight the PVE monsters etc, but got tired of bunny hoping gankers who preyed on the noobs, or those of us less thitchy fingured that would get killed over and over again.
I heard the "go play another game" rant but the real fact is, if there was a PVE server, more players would jump in and and many would eventually end up trying the PVP side as well, thus increasing the population which is the biggest issue currently and could quickly become the new big issue as yet again many wil try the game if stuck in PVP only, play a month or 2 and then leave.
My perosnal thoughts as a player of MMO's since way back with the Isle of Kesma on Compuserve