I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
Answer me this question:
If gear doesnt matter then why even have the ability to loot stuff? In full loot PvP games the gear never matters and is easily replaced so it begs the question why even have it?
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by Ravenmane A game is supposed to be the vision of the developer, not the players. If the players want to create a game; they can get together to make their own game. Don't make demands of a developer to go outside what their vision of their game should be.
And then game closes down. Brillant solution!
I'd agree with you if developers were making a game solely for themselves. Then it could have as many bugs, exploits and other varied problem as they want, they're the only ones playing the games. However, if you're selling a broken product, your customers are going to want you to fix those issues, or make the necessary changes to certain features to improve the game. Developers have nothing to lose by fixing what's broken and listening a bit more to their playerbase to understand what's wrong.
I don't know if you've ever played DarkFall, but here's 2 short examples of things the playerbase really needed, but Aventurine delivered too late.
Back at launch in Feb 2009 until early 2011 (April?), the alignement system was highly exploitable, prevented players from defending their allies without being flagged as a Red (PKer, which prevents visiting NPC cities), and even prevented them from defending themselves without risking of going red. Then Aventurine introduced Chaos Churches, areas where you can "redeem" yourself and go back to being a Blue (a good player, which gives access to npc cities). A problem though, most players had an alignement of -100 (Red), and Chaos church only recovers 2 points a day, so they'd have to wait 50 days without PvP to finally be back to being a Blue player. Finally, months later, AV introduced Lawless Areas (Alignement doesn't apply in those areas) and the issue was more or less solved.
Problem? Between 2009 to 2011, Aventurine lost many players who grew tired of this broken and exploitable alignement system.
Another example was the Skill System. The skill system in in DarkFall was initially at launch extremely exploitable. Players were macro'ing using Bloodwalls (alt characters stand still in a Player City for the purpose of being used as a punching bag so that players may raise their skills without risk). Aventurine finally addressed this by greatly boosting the skill gain from PvE. But DarkFall was a very grindy game, it took an insane amount of grinding (in months) to reach the "veteran" level, but it was extremely important. The gap between a new player and a Veteran is immense. New player would have about 100 HPs, deal about 10 damage on naked/low armor target, where as Veterans had 300-400 HPs, dealt about 40-60 damage (and up to 90 with mounts). Suffice to say, these veteran players would indirectly encourage other players to macro and exploit just like they (the veterans) have had to do since launch. Exploiting monsters was rampant, but was more or less addressed in Conquer The Sea expac (late 2009). However, removing mob exploiting made grinding skills even more tedious, and that remained true until Aventurine finally introduced Diminishing Returns for Stats (You'll earn more HP points by going from 20 to 21 Vitality than you would going from 90 to 91) and later on Meditation (offline skilling). This finally allowed players to become competitive faster.
Problem? In fact, the biggest problem in DarkFall's history. The insame amount of grind required, the need to macro, exploit, AFK swim at night for stats, etc killed the playerbase. Players who had exploited and macro'ed were never banned or rolled back either.
Had Aventurine bothered to listen to their playerbase early on, and address those issues, they'd have a much larger playerbase than they currently have (which is only a ridicule fraction of what it was at launch). DarkFall Unholy Wars would have possibly come sooner because AV would have the money to hire more employees (DarkFall: Unholy Wars was originally known as DarkFall 2010...implying it'd be released in 2010, don't need to tell you which date it is today)
It's not about "having to change their visions", it's about fixing what's wrong, and running a business. If a company doesn't understand that, well they'll go under. It's happened before, it will happen again.
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
Its not the pvp or full loot. Its the players it seems to attract. Case in point.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
I tell you this only one time again, so please pay attention ...
Hardcore PvP = WoW Arena PvP
The griefing thing from darkfall has nothing to do with hardcore.
Why? Simple... take the best Arena Gamer from WoW and the best darkfall player. Invente a new PvP game and let them play against each other. You will see how the WoW-Gamer rips the Darkfail-Boy appart.
who said the griefing had anything to do with hardcore PVP, any dumbshit can play WoW arena, crutch on gear and sit there staring at your hotbar pressing the same combination over and over again is easy when your character is autoattacking. The challenge in darkfall is that it's fast paced, FPS (you have to actually hit the target, the game doesn't do it for you), all the while moving around trying to dodge, attacks knowing when to use cover, knowing when to stat, knowing when to use what spell, at what time, knowing what combo to use, knowing when to block, you cant be braindead and succeed
p.s. did you really call WoW arena hardcore? are you kidding me?
BTW to all the people saying that i'm trying to say darkfall is a sandbox cause of full loot, no where did i say that, no where did i say anything about the sandbox integrity of the game. But yes it is a sandbox, no not cause of full loot.
It's not whether crafting takes an important part of DarkFall or not, it's about how it's done. Again, most of AV's efforts were put into PvP. Everything else, from exploring, crafting, PvE, etc is extremely lackluster.
Crafting has no depth. It's overly simplistic, and coupled with harvesting is an AFK mess. Many of the armor sets are not even complete, not all items can be crafted. Being a dedicated crafter is absolutely pointless when most of the playerbase harvest/craft when they need to AFK and raise their stats.
PvE isn't anything special. Monsters will run around in circle when their HPs get low, hit their allies in the back, etc. Overall, nothing special. Chronicles Of Spellborn had a much more interesting and engaging mob AI.
Exploring. There's nothing to explore, looking for monster spawns is DarkFall is no different from any other MMORPG so it barely passes as exploring. And when developers feel the need to introduce Chaos Chest to encourage players to explore.....actually, I'll just leave it at that.
Even for Housing and Player Cities/Hamlet, AV cutted every corner possible. Static locations, non-customizable. Housing is acquired by looting a Deed from either a mob or chaos chest (just how ridiculous is that for a "sandbox"?).
On paper, DarkFall meets most of the criterias to be a sandbox game. In action, however, it barely passes as one. It's much closer to a PvP themepark without any rules, than an actual Sandbox MMORPG.
Those are very good comments. I feel the same on Darkfall personally.
Crafting for one is overally simplistic. There is no experimentation. There is no varying resource quality. There is no factory. There is nothing that really separates people who focused and delicated to crafting vs just plain self-use crafter.
As you mention the non-craftable housing is also an issue. A sandbox's housing should be produced by players, not by random loot chance.
If you want a PvE sandbox got play Vanguard. You know why Vanguard doesn't have the population? Because PvE sandbox games don't work
DFO needs more sandbox features. UW seems to offer some of them. I personally don't care that housing is limited. If its not limited, then everyone will have a house which removes their specialness. If everyone has a house, you get the ghost town syndrom. ArchAge seems to have the right balance going for it, maybe DFO can do something similar.
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
I tell you this only one time again, so please pay attention ...
Hardcore PvP = WoW Arena PvP
The griefing thing from darkfall has nothing to do with hardcore.
Why? Simple... take the best Arena Gamer from WoW and the best darkfall player. Invente a new PvP game and let them play against each other. You will see how the WoW-Gamer rips the Darkfail-Boy appart.
who said the griefing had anything to do with hardcore PVP, any dumbshit can play WoW arena, crutch on gear and sit there staring at your hotbar pressing the same combination over and over again is easy when your character is autoattacking. The challenge in darkfall is that it's fast paced, FPS (you have to actually hit the target, the game doesn't do it for you), all the while moving around trying to dodge, attacks knowing when to use cover, knowing when to stat, knowing when to use what spell, at what time, knowing what combo to use, knowing when to block, you cant be braindead and succeed
p.s. did you really call WoW arena hardcore? are you kidding me?
BTW to all the people saying that i'm trying to say darkfall is a sandbox cause of full loot, no where did i say that, no where did i say anything about the sandbox integrity of the game. But yes it is a sandbox, no not cause of full loot.
Pretty sure he was being Ironic, as WoW has never had 'hard-core PvP' in it. Not that i class hardcore PvP as being a FFA loot thing either, i have encountered hardcore PvP'ers in Planetside, DAoC, SWG, and Eve though, i don't even think of WoW as having PvP tbh, though in terms of PVE it does excel. Having said that though, DF still falls short of being a hardcore PvP game imo, because it still is more about levels than it is about player skill, until that is 'balanced' then it will be more about level grind than actual ability.
It's not whether crafting takes an important part of DarkFall or not, it's about how it's done. Again, most of AV's efforts were put into PvP. Everything else, from exploring, crafting, PvE, etc is extremely lackluster.
Crafting has no depth. It's overly simplistic, and coupled with harvesting is an AFK mess. Many of the armor sets are not even complete, not all items can be crafted. Being a dedicated crafter is absolutely pointless when most of the playerbase harvest/craft when they need to AFK and raise their stats.
PvE isn't anything special. Monsters will run around in circle when their HPs get low, hit their allies in the back, etc. Overall, nothing special. Chronicles Of Spellborn had a much more interesting and engaging mob AI.
Exploring. There's nothing to explore, looking for monster spawns is DarkFall is no different from any other MMORPG so it barely passes as exploring. And when developers feel the need to introduce Chaos Chest to encourage players to explore.....actually, I'll just leave it at that.
Even for Housing and Player Cities/Hamlet, AV cutted every corner possible. Static locations, non-customizable. Housing is acquired by looting a Deed from either a mob or chaos chest (just how ridiculous is that for a "sandbox"?).
On paper, DarkFall meets most of the criterias to be a sandbox game. In action, however, it barely passes as one. It's much closer to a PvP themepark without any rules, than an actual Sandbox MMORPG.
Those are very good comments. I feel the same on Darkfall personally.
Crafting for one is overally simplistic. There is no experimentation. There is no varying resource quality. There is no factory. There is nothing that really separates people who focused and delicated to crafting vs just plain self-use crafter.
As you mention the non-craftable housing is also an issue. A sandbox's housing should be produced by players, not by random loot chance.
It is not really a true sandbox.
Did you ever actually spend any time developing your crafting beyond the basics in DF?
1) While there isnt varying resource quality in most crafting skills, the crafted items themselves vary in stats and durability. Enchanting is 1 craft which does offer a variety of resource quality. There are 5 ranks of quality for each type of enchantment material. the recipes are the same regardless of quality being used, but you can combine any quality of that same type of materiel for varying results.
2) AFK gathering only works when youre starting out. The rarer types of ore are in high demand and are most easily gained through either a) being in a clan which has a rare ore node in one of its holdings or b) fighting golems which can be quite risky solo, even moreso when you constantly have people hunting them and willing to gank you and take your rare ores
3) Along with #2, you can easily tell who dedicated themselves to crfting by their ability to create the highest rank weapons, the heavier armors, the gear with high level enchantments added on, etc. Granted with the recent increase in gaining skill levels its not ver tough to get your crafting skills up, but if you ask anyone who did things like focus on enchanting before the skill increases, it costs a fortune (several hundred thousand gold) and a shitload of time spent farming some of the toughest mobs for specific enchantment mats just to get it to 75, even worse to get from 75 to 100.
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
You blast off high & wide when you generalise the AAA players as without both skill and mindset to handle full loot pvp. Fortunately you're not the only voice from the Darkfall playerbase.
Let's take a quick look at me, soon 43 years old & growing older (oddly enough lol). My reflexes aint what they used to be, but I still want to play Darkfall. Well, as long as YOU don't decide at least. I admit, my skills aint what they used to be, simply because I tipped "the peak" quite a few years back. If I am not very wrong, you're either very young or a WoW/AAA hater. A combination? Anyways, that is not the issue; As the gaming genre grows older, so doe's the playerbase. If MMO's shall be able continue to grow, they also need changes to keep up with the playerbase. I bet you understand this. I expect some cookies in Darkfall, even though my skills aint top. Not too much to ask for? See, if Darkfall and similar games are made only to appeal 18 year old PC geeks, you can wave goodbye to the whole genre.
You rage is just as narrowminded as some 12 boy who is blasting out an attack from his personal & favored kiddie game. While all games are not meant to appeal to the whole audience, I personally feel this should be more from because of the ruleset and not so much from the twitch skills when it comes to MMO's.
If you disagree, why don't you PLAY THAT %&!!%&!% BATTLEFIELD INSTEAD??!
I heard Mists of Pandaria just came out, why don't you go boss it up as a cuddly wuddly panduh, dawwwww.
No but seriously, this game is a hardcore PVP game, if you can't deal with PVP, if you can't deal with losing you're precious pixels, stop posting, stop looking at the game, and just go play something else, cause this is what it is and this is how it should be. Carebear themepark mmos have ruined the mmo genre as we all know and leave no room for original content, DF is original, it's got something everything nowadays doesn't. This game is already dumbing down it's combat system so some of the "slower" players can keep up.
If you guys like action-packed skill-based pvp thrillrides (anyone who thinks otherwise about the skill part more than likely sucked at this part), massive siege warfare where you fight 50 VS 50, 100 VS 100, where the game feels like a game of starcraft, but from the perspective of a zealot ( perfect example, each one of those spells individually aimed, the target called) for control over resources, dominance over land, than this game is for you. There's more to DF than just this ofc, but this is the part I found most enjoyable.
You blast off high & wide when you generalise the AAA players as without both skill and mindset to handle full loot pvp. Fortunately you're not the only voice from the Darkfall playerbase.
Let's take a quick look at me, soon 43 years old & growing older (oddly enough lol). My reflexes aint what they used to be, but I still want to play Darkfall. Well, as long as YOU don't decide at least. I admit, my skills aint what they used to be, simply because I tipped "the peak" quite a few years back. If I am not very wrong, you're either very young or a WoW/AAA hater. A combination? Anyways, that is not the issue; As the gaming genre grows older, so doe's the playerbase. If MMO's shall be able continue to grow, they also need changes to keep up with the playerbase. I bet you understand this. I expect some cookies in Darkfall, even though my skills aint top. Not too much to ask for? See, if Darkfall and similar games are made only to appeal 18 year old PC geeks, you can wave goodbye to the whole genre.
You rage is just as narrowminded as some 12 boy who is blasting out an attack from his personal & favored kiddie game. While all games are not meant to appeal to the whole audience, I personally feel this should be more from because of the ruleset and not so much from the twitch skills when it comes to MMO's.
If you disagree, why don't you PLAY THAT %&!!%&!% BATTLEFIELD INSTEAD??!
Thank you for reading.
As an "older" game I'm failing to grasp any real point veiled in your post.
Anyway, In general most AAA games cater to the lowest common denominator.
Go play Ryzom or Worm if you want a carebear sandbox... i mean for real we like out hardcore pvp sandbox dont like it go play another you got plenty. Tale in the desert, Ryzom, Worm, Xsyon, ect so many pussy foot sandbox's to choose from but you know something they all failed because WHY craft something if there is a 0.0% chance to losing it???
You craft this or that and no need to ever craft it again because you have it then once you craft everything then what??? You quit because you used up all that sweet crafting content and no one could destroy it so there for no need to recreate it.
Rules of Life! (Game or IRL) Destruction and Chaos bring Creation and Order. (Dont think im correct crack open a history book.)
Go play Ryzom or Worm if you want a carebear sandbox... i mean for real we like out hardcore pvp sandbox dont like it go play another you got plenty. Tale in the desert, Ryzom, Worm, Xsyon, ect so many pussy foot sandbox's to choose from but you know something they all failed because WHY craft something if there is a 0.0% chance to losing it???
You craft this or that and no need to ever craft it again because you have it then once you craft everything then what??? You quit because you used up all that sweet crafting content and no one could destroy it so there for no need to recreate it.
Rules of Life! (Game or IRL) Destruction and Chaos bring Creation and Order. (Dont think im correct crack open a history book.)
Do you mean Darkfall was, or even is, a success?? If you are adressing me with this, you definately need read my post again.
If you want a PvE sandbox got play Vanguard. You know why Vanguard doesn't have the population? Because PvE sandbox games don't work
DFO needs more sandbox features. UW seems to offer some of them. I personally don't care that housing is limited. If its not limited, then everyone will have a house which removes their specialness. If everyone has a house, you get the ghost town syndrom. ArchAge seems to have the right balance going for it, maybe DFO can do something similar.
Vanguard is not a sandbox game, it's an openworld. It takes more than player housing and boats to make a sandbox. Besides, the reason it failed was not because it was a "PVE sandbox" it was because it was a buggy mess when it was released and even now it's not exactly perfect.
Go play Ryzom or Worm if you want a carebear sandbox... i mean for real we like out hardcore pvp sandbox dont like it go play another you got plenty. Tale in the desert, Ryzom, Worm, Xsyon, ect so many pussy foot sandbox's to choose from but you know something they all failed because WHY craft something if there is a 0.0% chance to losing it???
You craft this or that and no need to ever craft it again because you have it then once you craft everything then what??? You quit because you used up all that sweet crafting content and no one could destroy it so there for no need to recreate it.
Rules of Life! (Game or IRL) Destruction and Chaos bring Creation and Order. (Dont think im correct crack open a history book.)
On the green part : In the vast majority of MMORPGs, Sandbox and Themeparks alike, players don't lose their items when they die (regardless of whether those "end game" items are crafted or looted), yet it hasn't stop players from continuing to play for years (WoW being the perfect example for Themeparks).
I also find the mention that Ryzom and Wurm are "carebear sandbox" absolutely pretentious. It pretends that they are inferior games, yet they are clearly not. A sandbox does not need PvP to thrive, nor does it need to appeal to the DarkFall audience in particular. It does not make them "less" than DarkFall. Rather, DarkFall's sandbox features are incredibly shallow compared to other Sandboxes, which is often why DarkFall has repeatedly been compared to a Sandbox with no sand. PvP is only one aspect of MMORPGs (Sandbox and Themepark alike), but is not a necessity to exist. It is only YOU that requires it, and just because YOU prefer FFA PvP MMORPGs with Full Loot doesn't make other sandbox "lesser" than yours , nor does it make them "Carebear" because they do not offer such features.
Rule of Life : The "My Father is stronger than yours" 'argument' is childish and leads to nowhere.
Go play Ryzom or Worm if you want a carebear sandbox... i mean for real we like out hardcore pvp sandbox dont like it go play another you got plenty. Tale in the desert, Ryzom, Worm, Xsyon, ect so many pussy foot sandbox's to choose from but you know something they all failed because WHY craft something if there is a 0.0% chance to losing it???
You craft this or that and no need to ever craft it again because you have it then once you craft everything then what??? You quit because you used up all that sweet crafting content and no one could destroy it so there for no need to recreate it.
Rules of Life! (Game or IRL) Destruction and Chaos bring Creation and Order. (Dont think im correct crack open a history book.)
On the green part : In the vast majority of MMORPGs, Sandbox and Themeparks alike, players don't lose their items when they die (regardless of whether those "end game" items are crafted or looted), yet it hasn't stop players from continuing to play for years (WoW being the perfect example for Themeparks).
I also find the mention that Ryzom and Wurm are "carebear sandbox" absolutely pretentious. It pretends that they are inferior games, yet they are clearly not. A sandbox does not need PvP to thrive, nor does it need to appeal to the DarkFall audience in particular. It does not make them "less" than DarkFall. Rather, DarkFall's sandbox features are incredibly shallow compared to other Sandboxes, which is often why DarkFall has repeatedly been compared to a Sandbox with no sand. PvP is only one aspect of MMORPGs (Sandbox and Themepark alike), but is not a necessity to exist. It is only YOU that requires it, and just because YOU prefer FFA PvP MMORPGs with Full Loot doesn't make other sandbox "lesser" than yours , nor does it make them "Carebear" because they do not offer such features.
Rule of Life : The "My Father is stronger than yours" 'argument' is childish and leads to nowhere.
As an "older" game I'm failing to grasp any real point veiled in your post.
Anyway, In general most AAA games cater to the lowest common denominator.
What are "cookies"?
I fail to understand your jibberish about that you are an "older" game.
Im sure you fail to understand many things, its ok. We arent all created equal...
I can tell you that; it is hard to be on the top. So sorry for you who never will or are. Well, not really.
I am probaly not the only one who are having a good laugh that you whine about others who does'nt understand your jibberish, then you complain that you cannot understand anything yourself. Which is the bottom line of this case.
Let me comfort you with that it is "you", and only "you".
As an "older" game I'm failing to grasp any real point veiled in your post.
Anyway, In general most AAA games cater to the lowest common denominator.
What are "cookies"?
I fail to understand your jibberish about that you are an "older" game.
Im sure you fail to understand many things, its ok. We arent all created equal...
I can tell you that; it is hard to be on the top. So sorry for you who never will or are. Well, not really.
I am probaly not the only one who are having a good laugh that you whine about others who does'nt understand your jibberish, then you complain that you cannot understand anything yourself. Which is the bottom line of this case.
Let me comfort you with that it is "you", and only "you".
Have a good day.
What??? I responded to your post and asked a question, once again youre babbling.
"When you're telling these little stories, here's a good idea. Have a point, it makes is so much more interesting for the listener."
What??? I resonded to your post and askes a question, once again youre babbling.
"When you're telling these little stories, here's a good idea. Have a point, it makes is so much more interesting for the listener."
You really think the whole world spins areound you, don't you? I could give a good damn **** if I am entertaining you or not. Do you really belive you are talking for the whole world when you post, like som friggin' ambassador?
In any way, I am here to discuss the game. Why are you not interested in discussing that if I may ask?
What??? I resonded to your post and askes a question, once again youre babbling.
"When you're telling these little stories, here's a good idea. Have a point, it makes is so much more interesting for the listener."
In any way, I am here to discuss the game. Why are you not interested in discussing that if I may ask?
As am I, thus my request asking you to clarify wtf youre talking about. I cant tell if youre for or against DF-UW, pro PvE or PvP. pro or anti Sandbox. You went off on some AAA tangent and I replied.
This is exactly why Ive come back to darkfall. In other games, you talk shit on the fourms, and in the game, you really cant do shit about it. You get to kill them sure, but thats it. 30 sec later, they are back with no loss.
In DF....Death means something. Dying is to be avoided at all costs. It is FFA loot that keeps a MMO exciting, and what makes it a "Sandbox"
Without FFA Loot......its just another carebear WoW game.
What??? I resonded to your post and askes a question, once again youre babbling.
"When you're telling these little stories, here's a good idea. Have a point, it makes is so much more interesting for the listener."
In any way, I am here to discuss the game. Why are you not interested in discussing that if I may ask?
As am I, thus my request asking you to clarify wtf youre talking about. I cant tell if youre for or against DF-UW, pro PvE or PvP. pro or anti Sandbox. You went off on some AAA tangent and I replied.
My first post was not a reply to any of your posts here. Stop blaming me, or anyone else, for your lack of wit when it comes to understanding comments.
Comments
Just beacuse there is FFA PVP dosen't automaticly a sandbox game.
A true sandbox game must have more features than just mindless gang zerg fest with some odd mobs here and there.
Check out SWG,UO AC,EVE for reference.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Answer me this question:
If gear doesnt matter then why even have the ability to loot stuff? In full loot PvP games the gear never matters and is easily replaced so it begs the question why even have it?
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
And then game closes down. Brillant solution!
I'd agree with you if developers were making a game solely for themselves. Then it could have as many bugs, exploits and other varied problem as they want, they're the only ones playing the games. However, if you're selling a broken product, your customers are going to want you to fix those issues, or make the necessary changes to certain features to improve the game. Developers have nothing to lose by fixing what's broken and listening a bit more to their playerbase to understand what's wrong.
I don't know if you've ever played DarkFall, but here's 2 short examples of things the playerbase really needed, but Aventurine delivered too late.
Back at launch in Feb 2009 until early 2011 (April?), the alignement system was highly exploitable, prevented players from defending their allies without being flagged as a Red (PKer, which prevents visiting NPC cities), and even prevented them from defending themselves without risking of going red. Then Aventurine introduced Chaos Churches, areas where you can "redeem" yourself and go back to being a Blue (a good player, which gives access to npc cities). A problem though, most players had an alignement of -100 (Red), and Chaos church only recovers 2 points a day, so they'd have to wait 50 days without PvP to finally be back to being a Blue player. Finally, months later, AV introduced Lawless Areas (Alignement doesn't apply in those areas) and the issue was more or less solved.
Problem? Between 2009 to 2011, Aventurine lost many players who grew tired of this broken and exploitable alignement system.
Another example was the Skill System. The skill system in in DarkFall was initially at launch extremely exploitable. Players were macro'ing using Bloodwalls (alt characters stand still in a Player City for the purpose of being used as a punching bag so that players may raise their skills without risk). Aventurine finally addressed this by greatly boosting the skill gain from PvE. But DarkFall was a very grindy game, it took an insane amount of grinding (in months) to reach the "veteran" level, but it was extremely important. The gap between a new player and a Veteran is immense. New player would have about 100 HPs, deal about 10 damage on naked/low armor target, where as Veterans had 300-400 HPs, dealt about 40-60 damage (and up to 90 with mounts). Suffice to say, these veteran players would indirectly encourage other players to macro and exploit just like they (the veterans) have had to do since launch. Exploiting monsters was rampant, but was more or less addressed in Conquer The Sea expac (late 2009). However, removing mob exploiting made grinding skills even more tedious, and that remained true until Aventurine finally introduced Diminishing Returns for Stats (You'll earn more HP points by going from 20 to 21 Vitality than you would going from 90 to 91) and later on Meditation (offline skilling). This finally allowed players to become competitive faster.
Problem? In fact, the biggest problem in DarkFall's history. The insame amount of grind required, the need to macro, exploit, AFK swim at night for stats, etc killed the playerbase. Players who had exploited and macro'ed were never banned or rolled back either.
Had Aventurine bothered to listen to their playerbase early on, and address those issues, they'd have a much larger playerbase than they currently have (which is only a ridicule fraction of what it was at launch). DarkFall Unholy Wars would have possibly come sooner because AV would have the money to hire more employees (DarkFall: Unholy Wars was originally known as DarkFall 2010...implying it'd be released in 2010, don't need to tell you which date it is today)
It's not about "having to change their visions", it's about fixing what's wrong, and running a business. If a company doesn't understand that, well they'll go under. It's happened before, it will happen again.
Its not the pvp or full loot. Its the players it seems to attract. Case in point.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
who said the griefing had anything to do with hardcore PVP, any dumbshit can play WoW arena, crutch on gear and sit there staring at your hotbar pressing the same combination over and over again is easy when your character is autoattacking. The challenge in darkfall is that it's fast paced, FPS (you have to actually hit the target, the game doesn't do it for you), all the while moving around trying to dodge, attacks knowing when to use cover, knowing when to stat, knowing when to use what spell, at what time, knowing what combo to use, knowing when to block, you cant be braindead and succeed
p.s. did you really call WoW arena hardcore? are you kidding me?
BTW to all the people saying that i'm trying to say darkfall is a sandbox cause of full loot, no where did i say that, no where did i say anything about the sandbox integrity of the game. But yes it is a sandbox, no not cause of full loot.
Those are very good comments. I feel the same on Darkfall personally.
Crafting for one is overally simplistic. There is no experimentation. There is no varying resource quality. There is no factory. There is nothing that really separates people who focused and delicated to crafting vs just plain self-use crafter.
As you mention the non-craftable housing is also an issue. A sandbox's housing should be produced by players, not by random loot chance.
It is not really a true sandbox.
If you want a PvE sandbox got play Vanguard. You know why Vanguard doesn't have the population? Because PvE sandbox games don't work
DFO needs more sandbox features. UW seems to offer some of them. I personally don't care that housing is limited. If its not limited, then everyone will have a house which removes their specialness. If everyone has a house, you get the ghost town syndrom. ArchAge seems to have the right balance going for it, maybe DFO can do something similar.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Pretty sure he was being Ironic, as WoW has never had 'hard-core PvP' in it. Not that i class hardcore PvP as being a FFA loot thing either, i have encountered hardcore PvP'ers in Planetside, DAoC, SWG, and Eve though, i don't even think of WoW as having PvP tbh, though in terms of PVE it does excel. Having said that though, DF still falls short of being a hardcore PvP game imo, because it still is more about levels than it is about player skill, until that is 'balanced' then it will be more about level grind than actual ability.
AV needed to fix major flaws of the game before thinking in add more "sand",let's see if they can/want -to do this after UW.
and OP please ,just because the industry envolved into PVEThemeparks does not mean the genre is ruined.
Did you ever actually spend any time developing your crafting beyond the basics in DF?
1) While there isnt varying resource quality in most crafting skills, the crafted items themselves vary in stats and durability. Enchanting is 1 craft which does offer a variety of resource quality. There are 5 ranks of quality for each type of enchantment material. the recipes are the same regardless of quality being used, but you can combine any quality of that same type of materiel for varying results.
2) AFK gathering only works when youre starting out. The rarer types of ore are in high demand and are most easily gained through either a) being in a clan which has a rare ore node in one of its holdings or b) fighting golems which can be quite risky solo, even moreso when you constantly have people hunting them and willing to gank you and take your rare ores
3) Along with #2, you can easily tell who dedicated themselves to crfting by their ability to create the highest rank weapons, the heavier armors, the gear with high level enchantments added on, etc. Granted with the recent increase in gaining skill levels its not ver tough to get your crafting skills up, but if you ask anyone who did things like focus on enchanting before the skill increases, it costs a fortune (several hundred thousand gold) and a shitload of time spent farming some of the toughest mobs for specific enchantment mats just to get it to 75, even worse to get from 75 to 100.
You blast off high & wide when you generalise the AAA players as without both skill and mindset to handle full loot pvp. Fortunately you're not the only voice from the Darkfall playerbase.
Let's take a quick look at me, soon 43 years old & growing older (oddly enough lol). My reflexes aint what they used to be, but I still want to play Darkfall. Well, as long as YOU don't decide at least. I admit, my skills aint what they used to be, simply because I tipped "the peak" quite a few years back. If I am not very wrong, you're either very young or a WoW/AAA hater. A combination? Anyways, that is not the issue; As the gaming genre grows older, so doe's the playerbase. If MMO's shall be able continue to grow, they also need changes to keep up with the playerbase. I bet you understand this. I expect some cookies in Darkfall, even though my skills aint top. Not too much to ask for? See, if Darkfall and similar games are made only to appeal 18 year old PC geeks, you can wave goodbye to the whole genre.
You rage is just as narrowminded as some 12 boy who is blasting out an attack from his personal & favored kiddie game. While all games are not meant to appeal to the whole audience, I personally feel this should be more from because of the ruleset and not so much from the twitch skills when it comes to MMO's.
If you disagree, why don't you PLAY THAT %&!!%&!% BATTLEFIELD INSTEAD??!
Thank you for reading.
As an "older" game I'm failing to grasp any real point veiled in your post.
Anyway, In general most AAA games cater to the lowest common denominator.
What are "cookies"?
Go play Ryzom or Worm if you want a carebear sandbox... i mean for real we like out hardcore pvp sandbox dont like it go play another you got plenty. Tale in the desert, Ryzom, Worm, Xsyon, ect so many pussy foot sandbox's to choose from but you know something they all failed because WHY craft something if there is a 0.0% chance to losing it???
You craft this or that and no need to ever craft it again because you have it then once you craft everything then what??? You quit because you used up all that sweet crafting content and no one could destroy it so there for no need to recreate it.
Rules of Life! (Game or IRL) Destruction and Chaos bring Creation and Order. (Dont think im correct crack open a history book.)
I fail to understand your jibberish about that you are an "older" game.
Do you mean Darkfall was, or even is, a success?? If you are adressing me with this, you definately need read my post again.
If not, move along.
Im sure you fail to understand many things, its ok. We arent all created equal...
Vanguard is not a sandbox game, it's an openworld. It takes more than player housing and boats to make a sandbox. Besides, the reason it failed was not because it was a "PVE sandbox" it was because it was a buggy mess when it was released and even now it's not exactly perfect.
On the green part : In the vast majority of MMORPGs, Sandbox and Themeparks alike, players don't lose their items when they die (regardless of whether those "end game" items are crafted or looted), yet it hasn't stop players from continuing to play for years (WoW being the perfect example for Themeparks).
I also find the mention that Ryzom and Wurm are "carebear sandbox" absolutely pretentious. It pretends that they are inferior games, yet they are clearly not. A sandbox does not need PvP to thrive, nor does it need to appeal to the DarkFall audience in particular. It does not make them "less" than DarkFall. Rather, DarkFall's sandbox features are incredibly shallow compared to other Sandboxes, which is often why DarkFall has repeatedly been compared to a Sandbox with no sand. PvP is only one aspect of MMORPGs (Sandbox and Themepark alike), but is not a necessity to exist. It is only YOU that requires it, and just because YOU prefer FFA PvP MMORPGs with Full Loot doesn't make other sandbox "lesser" than yours , nor does it make them "Carebear" because they do not offer such features.
Rule of Life : The "My Father is stronger than yours" 'argument' is childish and leads to nowhere.
FFS... Is this now the general gaming forum?
I can tell you that; it is hard to be on the top. So sorry for you who never will or are. Well, not really.
I am probaly not the only one who are having a good laugh that you whine about others who does'nt understand your jibberish, then you complain that you cannot understand anything yourself. Which is the bottom line of this case.
Let me comfort you with that it is "you", and only "you".
Have a good day.
What???
I responded to your post and asked a question, once again youre babbling.
"When you're telling these little stories, here's a good idea. Have a point, it makes is so much more interesting for the listener."
You really think the whole world spins areound you, don't you? I could give a good damn **** if I am entertaining you or not. Do you really belive you are talking for the whole world when you post, like som friggin' ambassador?
In any way, I am here to discuss the game. Why are you not interested in discussing that if I may ask?
As am I, thus my request asking you to clarify wtf youre talking about. I cant tell if youre for or against DF-UW, pro PvE or PvP. pro or anti Sandbox. You went off on some AAA tangent and I replied.
This is exactly why Ive come back to darkfall. In other games, you talk shit on the fourms, and in the game, you really cant do shit about it. You get to kill them sure, but thats it. 30 sec later, they are back with no loss.
In DF....Death means something. Dying is to be avoided at all costs. It is FFA loot that keeps a MMO exciting, and what makes it a "Sandbox"
Without FFA Loot......its just another carebear WoW game.
Looking forward to coming back to Darkfall.
My first post was not a reply to any of your posts here. Stop blaming me, or anyone else, for your lack of wit when it comes to understanding comments.