Originally posted by Jemcrystal We're bashing the games because we are not the ones making them. Deep down we all wish we could design the game and we are all sure we'd do a better job. I know I would.
I think thats a good reason why we shouldn't bash though. I mean if we're not making them what right do we have to say it should be better, can we do better? Its like people bashing music whilst having no musical talent of their own isn't it?
Criticizing isn't contingent on the ability to physically create something.
Else 99% of movie, book, food and other critics would be out of a job. Roger Ebert isn't a director, he can't make movies.
Yes people can make a living out of such journalism. However journalists at least have to be informed and make structured arguments. My concern here is there are many arguments on this website that don't do that. It is merely childish bashing. Think of the discussions this site could have if only it was positive criticism, acknowledging its faults but also its strengths and what can be learned from the game. Why can't there be plenty to appreciate and admire about games you don't even enjoy playing?
Who is talking about making money of critique? Critique is a form of and in of itself, it doesn't need to be paid.
There is not thing like "positive criticism" or "constructive criticism" because its completely subjective what you will accept as "constructive" or "positive".
You don't have the right to not be offended. Nobody has to "acknowledge" somethings stregths in order to criticize it.
Please, don't try to police everyones speech by some arbitrary subjective standard of yours.
Please excuse and forgive this post if you disagree or I get my facts wrong. I am curious why most people constantly come on this site to troll and bash games that don't spell out doom and gloom for them or their gameplay experience?
It is the lifeblood of the site... I wouldn't want it to go away anytime soon if you enjoy posting here in any sense.
If these forums relied on purely positive posts for their footfall they would get about 10 hits a day lol
A simple fact of internet life is that the vast majority of people do not engage unless they are pissed off in some manner. Best get used to it if you want to share the space.
Im not talking about relying on only positive posts, more like constructive criticism. Bashing a game without an actual explanation and just saying "oh wah wah its shit wah worst game ever" doesn't really provide anybody on these forums with insight does it?
hey, not arguing with your core point, I agree that a utopia of enlightened good natured positive discussions would be awesome. I am just saying that it isn't the reality of how people engage online in the main and best just to get used to that.
I mean, look, you are here your self right now complaining about something because you have gotten pissed off enough to say something about it.
It's just the way of the internet world. Forum users are a miserable bunch generally.
Let me ask you a question... is the best way to change a culture to make a long thread moaning about other folk's behaviours, or is it to just lead by example in all the posts you make?
But yeah, I would consider constructive crticism a positive post type.
Originally posted by Jemcrystal We're bashing the games because we are not the ones making them. Deep down we all wish we could design the game and we are all sure we'd do a better job. I know I would.
I think thats a good reason why we shouldn't bash though. I mean if we're not making them what right do we have to say it should be better, can we do better? Its like people bashing music whilst having no musical talent of their own isn't it?
Criticizing isn't contingent on the ability to physically create something.
Else 99% of movie, book, food and other critics would be out of a job. Roger Ebert isn't a director, he can't make movies.
Yes people can make a living out of such journalism. However journalists at least have to be informed and make structured arguments. My concern here is there are many arguments on this website that don't do that. It is merely childish bashing. Think of the discussions this site could have if only it was positive criticism, acknowledging its faults but also its strengths and what can be learned from the game. Why can't there be plenty to appreciate and admire about games you don't even enjoy playing?
For all the constructive cricism Roger Ebert posts he does get flamed a lot and have to tolerate many insults by the fans of movies he rates low.
I have seena lot of constructive posts going down in the flames here. Truth is that fans just can not tolerate anything negative about the game whteher constructive or not. These topics are simply labeled as 'troll posts' or accussed for having an agenda or 'another excuse to whine'.
What you are expecting is just too much out of these forums.
If people couldn't discuss things that they are not an expert in then life would be pretty boring.
Every conversation I would have would be about IT Infrastructure and OS Image deployment/creation in a medium and large scale business environment.
FUCK, kill me now.
Sure there are people around that take things to the extreme and just live for winding up others, plenty of these people exist in real life as well as on the internet, you just have to learn how to deal with them and avoid them if necessary.
If people couldn't discuss things that they are not an expert in then life would be pretty boring.
Every conversation I would have would be about IT Infrastructure and OS Image deployment/creation in a medium and large scale business environment.
FUCK, kill me now.
Sure there are people around that take things to the extreme and just live for winding up others, plenty of these people exist in real life as well as on the internet, you just have to learn how to deal with them and avoid them if necessary.
The problem is people DO think they are experts. I mean, look at all the people quoting their gaming history and how long they have been playing games to justify what they say. It doesn't mean anything but it does show their bias as it shows what type of games they like.
Please excuse and forgive this post if you disagree or I get my facts wrong. I am curious why most people constantly come on this site to troll and bash games that don't spell out doom and gloom for them or their gameplay experience?
Why do you come here and read it?
You could just.. you know play the games you enjoy and talk about them on actual fan sites
Well its a good point. I come here to learn about new MMO's and keep up to date. It is mainly a news site after all. I do also come here for player reviews of games and discussions concerning games. By discussions I don't mean hate threads and flame wars by the way. Just interesting, informed opinions. I keep my eyes on multiple games out of interest. I suppose I could go to each sites forums individually but that is much more time consuming and possibly more bias.
I think essentially this is more that you haven't found anyone here who has similar opinions to yourself, so maybe your finding the discussion element lacking. Forums rarely have gentlemenly rules so most will descend into flame wars.
I will say this though, being positive about most titles is just not worth it in this industry. Why? Because I believe gamers are probably once of the most exploited customer bases on the planet. Pretty much every developer/publisher finds new ways to grab extra money of it's devouted playerbase for continuing to play, while talking a load of marketing bollocks that never lives up to expectations.
That kind of attitude will leave even the most optimistic cynical. MMORPG fans are fed up with that, but at the same time are irrational. It's why you have so many complaints about f2p titles, pretty much everyone knows you'll have to pay for something at some point, nothings truly free, but then some complain becasue they feel there, 'owed', from past experiences. Screw the actual business model, or the compnay actually making money, SOE screwed SWG so I'm owed this man!!
I think what your hoping for is just beyond most people at this point. The cycle will just start again with the next great white hope gets hyperboled to the heavens..
We've all payed good money for bad games. Forums give us the ability to give feedback to make games better and a platform for voicing our displeasure at games that didn't meet our expectations.
MMORPG .com would be a hella boring place if everyone was like:
Originally posted by bigsmiff I feel that all of these negative posts are a direct result of a devolving MMO industry. We should be going forward instead of falling backwards. We have gone from robust crafting, deep class systems and open world exploration to cookie cutter themepark games with zero depth. That is my take on it anyway...
I don't think the industry is devolving - It is evolving - may be you don't like where the industry is going. It does happen - look at the automobile industry - many people don't like how complex cars are (I don't) but that is the way the industry is going - you can't stop it.
But we are going from a "Corvette" to a "Chevette"
Originally posted by nsignific I bash games when it's fans bash mine. It's a mental disorder I have - one bad turn deserves another, in my case, I return the "favour" tenfold. Adopted that philosophy after being ganked in STV in Vanilla WoW.
This is probably the most HONEST post after the OP.
OP, outside of WOW (the team the New England Patriots wanted to be and everyone else wants to dethrone) I can’t say that I have consistently seen fans of one title viewing game X as strictly some sort of enemy to beat up and bash on the boards. I do see a lot of negativity as the industry is moving toward an entirely too casual and mainstream model of play to be called a hobby anymore and this board is frequented by hobbyist left feeling disenfranchised.
If people couldn't discuss things that they are not an expert in then life would be pretty boring.
Every conversation I would have would be about IT Infrastructure and OS Image deployment/creation in a medium and large scale business environment.
FUCK, kill me now.
Sure there are people around that take things to the extreme and just live for winding up others, plenty of these people exist in real life as well as on the internet, you just have to learn how to deal with them and avoid them if necessary.
The problem is people DO think they are experts. I mean, look at all the people quoting their gaming history and how long they have been playing games to justify what they say. It doesn't mean anything but it does show their bias as it shows what type of games they like.
Citing experience is not bad in of itself. Nor is the comparison of experience.
Its only bad if your -only- argument is an appeal to authority or experience.
Else, how would you even define who is "allowed" to be an expert? How many games did they need to have put out? Sold? Only AAA games? Indies?
Can someone making games in game-maker talk about mechanics? How about people who make traditional games (like myself), can they be considered "experts"?
What are your criteria on who is allowed to talk about a game with " accepted authority"? Is it only the Chris Roberts' or the Peter Molyneux?
Do you understand how retarded your argument sounds?
Originally posted by bigsmiff Originally posted by botrytisOriginally posted by bigsmiff I feel that all of these negative posts are a direct result of a devolving MMO industry. We should be going forward instead of falling backwards. We have gone from robust crafting, deep class systems and open world exploration to cookie cutter themepark games with zero depth. That is my take on it anyway...
I don't think the industry is devolving - It is evolving - may be you don't like where the industry is going. It does happen - look at the automobile industry - many people don't like how complex cars are (I don't) but that is the way the industry is going - you can't stop it. But we are going from a "Corvette" to a "Chevette"
Originally posted by bigsmiff I feel that all of these negative posts are a direct result of a devolving MMO industry. We should be going forward instead of falling backwards. We have gone from robust crafting, deep class systems and open world exploration to cookie cutter themepark games with zero depth. That is my take on it anyway...
I don't think the industry is devolving - It is evolving - may be you don't like where the industry is going. It does happen - look at the automobile industry - many people don't like how complex cars are (I don't) but that is the way the industry is going - you can't stop it.
But are we going from a "Corvette" to a "Chevette"?
Fixed it for you - the previous games were not Corvette's at all but, they were probably a persons first exposure to MMO's. Just like a first car, it is memorable and you remember that experience for a long time (be it good or bad).
People need to realize their opinions are based on their experiences, good or bad. But, it seems in this time of instant gratification and Facebook (anonymous friends lists) that being anonymous has a certain empowerment to be as nasty as one wants without have any consequences. That is where people need to rethink how and what they say.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Please excuse and forgive this post if you disagree or I get my facts wrong. I am curious why most people constantly come on this site to troll and bash games that don't spell out doom and gloom for them or their gameplay experience?
Why must people jump up and immediately point fingers and foam spit out of their mouths if they don't like Guild Wars 2? Why get so angry if Turbine has layoffs? Why say a game is dead when there is a server merge? Why not just sit back and think for a moment?
I genuinly believe MMO's thrive on the success of others if they have the resourcefulness and cunning to adapt, which I believe a fair number do.
Do you think Rift would go out of its way to become more than just a themepark if it had no competition on the market? Do you think WoW would have adopted certain features of its competition over the years, despite being on top? What about LOTRO with RoR, the tagging system seems strangely similar to the system in GW2, doesn't it? It is also being called one of the best expansions in terms of improvements in gameplay for LOTRO. So you see competition improves games. Its healthy and its positive. So to the people that come here regularly and say things like "oh I hope x game dies because y game will kill it LOLOLOL", well I see this, I bloody well hope not. I may not be sold on GW2 yet but I am confident in the new features I will introduce, I am confident that some of these features might get into the heads of other developers and be expanded on or tweaked.
What I hope people realize I'm trying to say is other MMO's shouldn't be looked at as enemies, something to be threatened and scared by to the extent that there is much time spent raging at the keyboard about how it sucks and nobody should play it. Why not look at it simply as a positive contribution towards this genre, no matter how small? Even if it is another cookie cutter theme park that can at first glance be passed off as a clone with no contribution towards the genre, how about simply looking at it as a positive thing? Plenty of theme park clones on the market would influence developers of new projects to steer away from that gameplay, to try something new.
Again, if my facts are wrong forgive me. However, I genuinly believe that all of this raging and trolls vs fan(atic)s is really quite meaningless.
I agree with you partially. The troll/bash/hype/hater labelling is horrible and immature and completely agree it really needs to stop. It adds absolutely nothing and just incites personal attacks.
I do like the fact that MMORPG posts everyone's opinion. The positive ones and the negative ones. It gives a really good insight into new games and helps me decide if its something I want to try or if I will like it or not.
If you love the game, then tell me why. If you dislike the game, tell me why. But leave the attitude out of it.
And yeah - I know... it'll never happen here... This is MMORPG ;-P
Originally posted by nsignific I bash games when it's fans bash mine. It's a mental disorder I have - one bad turn deserves another, in my case, I return the "favour" tenfold. Adopted that philosophy after being ganked in STV in Vanilla WoW.
^-- this is one of the reasons for it. A lot of people have trouble separating themselves from their character.
There's also a strong entitlement mentality where many people feel every MMO should be made for them. I wonder if they also flip out everytime a cereal is made that they didn't expressly ask for, however I'm sure somewhere out there is a "Frosted Mini-Wheat Cinnamon Streusel is FAIL" thread with generous amounts of rage and discontent is being expressed.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Please excuse and forgive this post if you disagree or I get my facts wrong. I am curious why most people constantly come on this site to troll and bash games that don't spell out doom and gloom for them or their gameplay experience?
Why must people jump up and immediately point fingers and foam spit out of their mouths if they don't like Guild Wars 2? Why get so angry if Turbine has layoffs? Why say a game is dead when there is a server merge? Why not just sit back and think for a moment?
I genuinly believe MMO's thrive on the success of others if they have the resourcefulness and cunning to adapt, which I believe a fair number do.
Do you think Rift would go out of its way to become more than just a themepark if it had no competition on the market? Do you think WoW would have adopted certain features of its competition over the years, despite being on top? What about LOTRO with RoR, the tagging system seems strangely similar to the system in GW2, doesn't it? It is also being called one of the best expansions in terms of improvements in gameplay for LOTRO. So you see competition improves games. Its healthy and its positive. So to the people that come here regularly and say things like "oh I hope x game dies because y game will kill it LOLOLOL", well I see this, I bloody well hope not. I may not be sold on GW2 yet but I am confident in the new features I will introduce, I am confident that some of these features might get into the heads of other developers and be expanded on or tweaked.
What I hope people realize I'm trying to say is other MMO's shouldn't be looked at as enemies, something to be threatened and scared by to the extent that there is much time spent raging at the keyboard about how it sucks and nobody should play it. Why not look at it simply as a positive contribution towards this genre, no matter how small? Even if it is another cookie cutter theme park that can at first glance be passed off as a clone with no contribution towards the genre, how about simply looking at it as a positive thing? Plenty of theme park clones on the market would influence developers of new projects to steer away from that gameplay, to try something new.
Again, if my facts are wrong forgive me. However, I genuinly believe that all of this raging and trolls vs fan(atic)s is really quite meaningless.
Most of the so called "negative" posts are actually more constructive than they are given credit for. Or at the very least are either factually based or are opinions backed by personal experience or soemthing solid. Very few posts come out and say "GW2 is a steaming turd on the face of the MMO genre" That does happen but very few and far between. Most people's posts are identifying what they think are the game's drawbacks. But they are taken out of context by people who cannot seem to distinguish their own personal identity from that of the game itself. Seriously, if you find yourself personally offended because someone complains about GW2, stop for a second and think about it. Something is wrong when it's only a game. I have recently seen a poster state he "despairs" when he sees what he calls negativeism on these forums. Honestly. Despair? Over GW2? Clearly, some people have never had things in life to despair over than someone they don't know's opinion of a video game.
Originally posted by bigsmiff Originally posted by botrytisOriginally posted by bigsmiff I feel that all of these negative posts are a direct result of a devolving MMO industry. We should be going forward instead of falling backwards. We have gone from robust crafting, deep class systems and open world exploration to cookie cutter themepark games with zero depth. That is my take on it anyway...
I don't think the industry is devolving - It is evolving - may be you don't like where the industry is going. It does happen - look at the automobile industry - many people don't like how complex cars are (I don't) but that is the way the industry is going - you can't stop it. But we are going from a "Corvette" to a "Chevette"
That's just your opinion, foo.
Actually no, it's pretty easy to point out the ways mmos have changed (devolved actually) and the only place opinion comes in is whether you like the changes or not.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by ShakyMo Sorry but the swtor bashing was justified.
Universal 9/10 reviews given to a mmo that played like an average sprpg
Where does that leave GW2?
GW2 doesn't punish people for doing things as a group if theyre not in the same party. That leaves GW2 as an MMORPG. Sure I can solo events, but I rarely get to prove I can since people always join in. Now in SW:TOR, you just wait till the guy finishes because its pointless for you to help him.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.
Comments
Who is talking about making money of critique? Critique is a form of and in of itself, it doesn't need to be paid.
There is not thing like "positive criticism" or "constructive criticism" because its completely subjective what you will accept as "constructive" or "positive".
You don't have the right to not be offended. Nobody has to "acknowledge" somethings stregths in order to criticize it.
Please, don't try to police everyones speech by some arbitrary subjective standard of yours.
hey, not arguing with your core point, I agree that a utopia of enlightened good natured positive discussions would be awesome. I am just saying that it isn't the reality of how people engage online in the main and best just to get used to that.
I mean, look, you are here your self right now complaining about something because you have gotten pissed off enough to say something about it.
It's just the way of the internet world. Forum users are a miserable bunch generally.
Let me ask you a question... is the best way to change a culture to make a long thread moaning about other folk's behaviours, or is it to just lead by example in all the posts you make?
But yeah, I would consider constructive crticism a positive post type.
For all the constructive cricism Roger Ebert posts he does get flamed a lot and have to tolerate many insults by the fans of movies he rates low.
I have seena lot of constructive posts going down in the flames here. Truth is that fans just can not tolerate anything negative about the game whteher constructive or not. These topics are simply labeled as 'troll posts' or accussed for having an agenda or 'another excuse to whine'.
What you are expecting is just too much out of these forums.
Look into my swirling brassiere and believe all future mmo releases will be perfect. When I snap my fingers you will awaken!
If people couldn't discuss things that they are not an expert in then life would be pretty boring.
Every conversation I would have would be about IT Infrastructure and OS Image deployment/creation in a medium and large scale business environment.
FUCK, kill me now.
Sure there are people around that take things to the extreme and just live for winding up others, plenty of these people exist in real life as well as on the internet, you just have to learn how to deal with them and avoid them if necessary.
The problem is people DO think they are experts. I mean, look at all the people quoting their gaming history and how long they have been playing games to justify what they say. It doesn't mean anything but it does show their bias as it shows what type of games they like.
I think essentially this is more that you haven't found anyone here who has similar opinions to yourself, so maybe your finding the discussion element lacking. Forums rarely have gentlemenly rules so most will descend into flame wars.
I will say this though, being positive about most titles is just not worth it in this industry. Why? Because I believe gamers are probably once of the most exploited customer bases on the planet. Pretty much every developer/publisher finds new ways to grab extra money of it's devouted playerbase for continuing to play, while talking a load of marketing bollocks that never lives up to expectations.
That kind of attitude will leave even the most optimistic cynical. MMORPG fans are fed up with that, but at the same time are irrational. It's why you have so many complaints about f2p titles, pretty much everyone knows you'll have to pay for something at some point, nothings truly free, but then some complain becasue they feel there, 'owed', from past experiences. Screw the actual business model, or the compnay actually making money, SOE screwed SWG so I'm owed this man!!
I think what your hoping for is just beyond most people at this point. The cycle will just start again with the next great white hope gets hyperboled to the heavens..
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
We've all payed good money for bad games. Forums give us the ability to give feedback to make games better and a platform for voicing our displeasure at games that didn't meet our expectations.
MMORPG .com would be a hella boring place if everyone was like:
"Hey, I liked (game X)"
"Yeah, (game x) was fun."
/endthread
But we are going from a "Corvette" to a "Chevette"
OP the unnecessary game bashing won´t stop.... haters got to hate.
Just ignore them & play the games for yourself
This is probably the most HONEST post after the OP.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
OP, outside of WOW (the team the New England Patriots wanted to be and everyone else wants to dethrone) I can’t say that I have consistently seen fans of one title viewing game X as strictly some sort of enemy to beat up and bash on the boards. I do see a lot of negativity as the industry is moving toward an entirely too casual and mainstream model of play to be called a hobby anymore and this board is frequented by hobbyist left feeling disenfranchised.
Citing experience is not bad in of itself. Nor is the comparison of experience.
Its only bad if your -only- argument is an appeal to authority or experience.
Else, how would you even define who is "allowed" to be an expert? How many games did they need to have put out? Sold? Only AAA games? Indies?
Can someone making games in game-maker talk about mechanics? How about people who make traditional games (like myself), can they be considered "experts"?
What are your criteria on who is allowed to talk about a game with " accepted authority"? Is it only the Chris Roberts' or the Peter Molyneux?
Do you understand how retarded your argument sounds?
The easy solution is:
EVALUATE THE ARGUMENT
not the poster.
But we are going from a "Corvette" to a "Chevette"
That's just your opinion, foo.
I very much agree with that advice. It shouldn't matter who posts and what they did in their past, it is only their current text that should matter.
Fixed it for you - the previous games were not Corvette's at all but, they were probably a persons first exposure to MMO's. Just like a first car, it is memorable and you remember that experience for a long time (be it good or bad).
People need to realize their opinions are based on their experiences, good or bad. But, it seems in this time of instant gratification and Facebook (anonymous friends lists) that being anonymous has a certain empowerment to be as nasty as one wants without have any consequences. That is where people need to rethink how and what they say.
Excellent philosophy. Fiddle while Rome burns.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Where does that leave GW2?
I agree with you partially. The troll/bash/hype/hater labelling is horrible and immature and completely agree it really needs to stop. It adds absolutely nothing and just incites personal attacks.
I do like the fact that MMORPG posts everyone's opinion. The positive ones and the negative ones. It gives a really good insight into new games and helps me decide if its something I want to try or if I will like it or not.
If you love the game, then tell me why. If you dislike the game, tell me why. But leave the attitude out of it.
And yeah - I know... it'll never happen here... This is MMORPG ;-P
^-- this is one of the reasons for it. A lot of people have trouble separating themselves from their character.
There's also a strong entitlement mentality where many people feel every MMO should be made for them. I wonder if they also flip out everytime a cereal is made that they didn't expressly ask for, however I'm sure somewhere out there is a "Frosted Mini-Wheat Cinnamon Streusel is FAIL" thread with generous amounts of rage and discontent is being expressed.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Most of the so called "negative" posts are actually more constructive than they are given credit for. Or at the very least are either factually based or are opinions backed by personal experience or soemthing solid. Very few posts come out and say "GW2 is a steaming turd on the face of the MMO genre" That does happen but very few and far between. Most people's posts are identifying what they think are the game's drawbacks. But they are taken out of context by people who cannot seem to distinguish their own personal identity from that of the game itself. Seriously, if you find yourself personally offended because someone complains about GW2, stop for a second and think about it. Something is wrong when it's only a game. I have recently seen a poster state he "despairs" when he sees what he calls negativeism on these forums. Honestly. Despair? Over GW2? Clearly, some people have never had things in life to despair over than someone they don't know's opinion of a video game.
But we are going from a "Corvette" to a "Chevette"
That's just your opinion, foo.
Actually no, it's pretty easy to point out the ways mmos have changed (devolved actually) and the only place opinion comes in is whether you like the changes or not."True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
GW2 doesn't punish people for doing things as a group if theyre not in the same party. That leaves GW2 as an MMORPG. Sure I can solo events, but I rarely get to prove I can since people always join in. Now in SW:TOR, you just wait till the guy finishes because its pointless for you to help him.
Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.