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Players thinning out and a solution
Creslin321
Member Posts: 5,359
I really like GW2, but one potential pitfall that I can see ahead of it is something that all games with some kind of public questing face. And that is that eventually, the player population thins out, or concentrates in higher level zones, and you get left with a very large part of the world that is more or less empty most of the time. This has already happened to some extent...many zones are still well populated, but some of the mid-high level zones seem to be much thinner on my server when it's not peak time.
This can be frustrating for players leveling up, because they will often encounter events that are too difficult for them to complete alone, and they will have to pretty much just ignore them. I really see this problem getting even worse when the inevitable expansion comes that will probably greatly increase the size of the open world...spreading out player population more and more.
So I started to try to think of what a good way to solve this problem would be...and the Halloween event gave me an idea...
The Halloween event essentially put a spotlight on a few zones and basically told players "go here." I noticed that level 80 players who would normally rarely ever go to the lower level zones were there in droves to participate in the event.
So that's when I thought that maybe this kind of thing would be a good idea to do on a more regular basis. For example, maybe every week, a select handful of zones get "highlighted" by giving them some kind of special content, rewards, etc. Maybe it's a traveling fair that goes through, or an enemy army on the move...a haunted caravan...the possibilities are really endless. Then the next week, a new handful of zones would be highlighted.
This would give level 80's a reaon to go back into the open world, and not just congregate in WvW, PvP, Orr, or dungeons. It would also give players a select few zones every week that they KNOW will be well populated...even if the game gets three times the content in eventual expansions, this should help combat population thinning by letting players know where they should go to find each other.
Thoughts?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Comments
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Not a bad idea, but I don't think it's ~the~ solution.
An event gets people into a few zones, for a short time. Once the novelty wears off, so do the players. If you happen to be leveling during an event - great, except that you may miss out on part of the event. That, and what happens during all the other time when there is no event, or the other zones where there are no events.
I think they already have a solution, and it sits with the way they handle overflow. What if they did overflow in reverse, like an "underflow" or something? When you zone or log in, you get the option to play on your home server with a warning that it's "underpopulated" (or pick something more politically correct if you choose), and given an option to travel to an overflow server where the population is much higher.
That, and there are very few events that are utterly impossible to complete solo. The dynamic scaling of most events makes the vast majority (although not all, depending on your class and play style) of them accessible even if your by yourself.
The only problem I could see is players getting tired of 'events'. Too much of a good thing, so to speak. The trick would be luring players into an event every week, but having the players feel like they were doing something different every week.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
after this holiday event don't see how it has any more limits than P2P games
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
This is a really good idea! It would be awesome if they could do this.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
would be similar to the cross server zone thing wow was/is? doing
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Events already scale so that all content is always relevant no matter what level you are. If the population is concentrating around certain areas, it is not because of a design flaw but due to too many players playing the game wrongly.
If there is any problems with the current scaling: name one successful MMORPG that has got the scaling correctly? GW2 is trying something different from the norm and it won't be 100% balanced. Arenanet is already overwhelmed with the massive population and is still a new successful game, so we should give them time to balance. This game is not for the "I WANT IT NOW" crowd, it is for the more patient and rational players that realize all the work needed to create a successful MMORPG like GW2.
So in conclusion: I do not share your worries. You can always quit if you stop liking the game. Since it is B2P, you can just come visit a few months later to see if they have done the changes you wanted or did anything else that peeked your interest, without any extra cost!
So don't worry, Arenanet will get it right, just give them time.
I really hope that they do this sort of thing, even regardless of population. I enjoy following through the mini stories that they provide through DE's, The live team is potentially on my list for favorite people
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I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
They didn't limit in GW1 - please stop the tired negative arguments.
subs have limited too - I mean with Rift, the expansion is 40 dollars - you already had 1.5 yrs of sub in that game. and all they did was expand to one small island - Subs then are limited too.
Stranglethorn fishing contest!
As for a serious solution to this inevitability (and I've only read the OP, so I don't know if this has been mentioned already) they could just do what WoW has done with their recent expansion (which was probably inspired by GW2's overflow servers in the first place), which is to add reverse overflow servers. From my understanding of how it works in WoW, they merge any underpopulated zones on your server with the same zones from other servers until a population quota is met.
I don't understand the technical aspects of it, but if it can work in WoW, it must only be easier in GW2, which (still to my chagrin) separates its zones by loading screens. As far as I know, a player could be in an Elwynn Forest reverse overflow with 14 other servers in WoW, then, after crossing the invisible border into Stormwind, be instantly transported back to his own server's exclusive zone without a loading screen transition. It honestly strikes me as remarkable technology.
I understand this has been met with a number of complaints from the WoW community, almost all of which, however, would not be applicable to GW2. Things like the added number of players in low level zones makes it harder to complete certain gather/loot/kill quests, or makes it more difficult to farm herbs or ore. But to me that just speaks more of a fundamentally anti-cooperative gameplay design in WoW. In GW2, more players either do not affect those things or even sometimes make them easier/more fun.
I agree and to be honest now would be a great time for a group of friends to start new characters out ...I find the zones much better now that the zerg is gone
Think it depends more on what time you play, and what zones you play in, not what server you're on. If you mostly play during primetime, then yeah, you won't see much of a problem. A solution like this isn't to bring back launch day crowding. It's just to help when whole zones are practically empty.
Just because you never see it, doesn't mean its not an issue. Maybe I play at more off-peak times, and I do a lot of exploring in less popular zones. I see utterly uncontested DEs all over the place. No one is even trying to do them, because they're just a waste of time for one or two players who run by. Often I try, hoping others come along.. and no one does.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I personally don't see it as an issue not having enough players to complete the encounters because 1: you get a good standard amount of Karma if you don't finish the defends or escorts so even if they fail there's no big loss 2: you can still do these things relatively easy. I played my thief without the healy and condition removal parts and soloed many a thing that had droves of enemies coming at me. 3: personal stories are often like this and there usually is no one there to rez you. I've been thru those with my thief and still no issues so. Can't see it as a problem unless we're just looking for the people we run with normally. Also, there's this thing right now, Halloween events, that have taken a crapton of people out of the regular zones they would normally be working in towards some goal like gathering to sell in the TP to get their exotics, farming Karma thru events, compeleting zones to get 100%. Etc.
I saw them all the time before halloween week started. They'll be back.
LOL Really?
You better hand your cash over to EA/BW because their 'free" to play system is the one you should be worried about. Talk about a rip. Anet doesn't force you to pay a sub, doesn't cut off content to require a sub to play, doesn't keep you from your friends by preventing you from even chatting with them without a sub, and doesn't require you to have special end game currency to get anything meaningful that you can't already earn yourself in game for free.
Soooo what's wrong with B2P again?
it does have more cash flow, so far the only limitation I've seen is the expediency of their support department. Everything else has been on par. Their fixing of bugs was on par, their adding requested features (the few they could) is on par, they're working on detecting botware, they really haven't left anything out I'm afraid.
Oh and don't fool yourself, that sub money doesn't do much for the sub only games, it's just there to line the pockets of the execs so they can get that second yacht. The public reports on where that money goes monthly is fairly easy to get a hold of.
I totally agree here, the release overcrowding was too much. It's way more fun to level alts now that each event isn't zerged.
Respect, walk
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- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
In my opinion GW2 would have been a great game to just do away with traditional levels, when I look at the map I see zones listed with level ranges on them. When I go back to them they are still pretty easy even though I am scaled down because I have better armor, traits and more abilities.
I really wish they had just not included levels, so when I go back to an older zone its still easy ish, I have still become more powerful through acquiring abilities, traits and armor but when I look at the map I don't see an arbitrary number, when I enter the zone I don't see my level get scaled back.
Current High level zones would still be the same they just wouldn't have a number on it, someone walks in and gets hammered by the mobs they know they need more abilities, better armor and more traits, come back later.
It just strikes me as odd, everything I do while not max level in GW2 I am being scaled up or down to take part in, why not just be done with this number next to my name?
I know this doesn't really answer the OP but I think it would help the world feel a bit more alive, no one looks at the map and sees number plonked on zones, no one is downgraded when going back to a zone, if you dont get downgraded you don't feel as much like you are doing something that's beneath you.
But I thought the whole point of GW2 was the joy of returning to the lower levels to help your friends and even your enemies? The downleveling makes it possible to enjoy the content again and again with no penalties and all sorts of rewards.
*A bit of sarcasm there*
On a more serious note, I think you will just find a lot of 'end event' enemies in the DEs (ones that chain and spawn a 'big boss') going uncompleted. Too bad really but I don't think they can implement anything that would comprehensively canvas every zone enough to get larger numbers of people to go back. Even if they did, there would be no real suction towards getting people to do 'normal' DEs to lead up to chains.
My wife and I are on Tarnished Coast, a pretty populated server. We are a bit behind the levelling curve, taking our time, playing only together when we have the time, and are both in the 55 neighborhood. We spend a lot of time in zones without many or any people that we see. Often times we are doing DEs (or what we can of them) together, and if you play smart, it is actually pretty amazing what you *can* do with only two people.
That said, the game is feeling lonlier and lonlier. Our guild is pretty much dead (from 30 active players), as is our friends list. Now it is just she and I, so time to move on I guess, find a new guild.
At our level, on our server, in the zones we are in, we are defenitely feeling the thin population (though some of that currently might be due to the events).
I do love the solutions spoken of here. It is very refreshing to see a thread that actually contributes in a positive manner. I have been critical of aspects of the game, but really appreciate players like Creslin who can acknowledge shortcomings or potential problems, and then at least suggest solutions to a game they love.
It is really what these forums should be dominated with, and sadly it seems to be largely trolls. Keep up the good posts.