Originally posted by Jimmydean Pretty sure Anet just scrapped everything GW2 was based upon. And it might be enough to make me log in again.
They didn't scrap anything - understand the lore of the GW universe and all they are doing is returning things that were in GW1.
Lore has nothing to do with gear stat progression. But I'll take your comments under advisment. I'll place them right next to all of Aerowyn's posts about the entire game being endgame, and how exotics are the best items in game so there is no gear progression.
+1
There is no gear prgression - RELOOK at the pics. The stats are the same on those 2 pcs of armor - the only difference is one has the stats + a rune and the other is all stats + an infusion slot. IT IS NOT GEAR PROGRESSION lol
No.
You are wrong.
The Ascended item is +50, +50, +10%, +18, +18.
The exotic item is +48, +48, +7% (+3%+4%), +15, +15.
Look again.
It is like in GW1 - people demanding 15% above 50% mods when they did only one point damage above 14% above 50%. People dont understand math - it is not that much more - in fact another item done right - might have more. Game is still too new to say.
Infusion was to counter any mob that could cast the monster only skill, Spectral Agony. Only a handful of mobs could cast that. Infusion here counters the Agony condition. We'll see how many mobs can cast that. I always thought it was lame that they didn't add more mobs that could cast Spectral Agony, especially if Fissure or UW.
I don't think this sort of progression is bad at all. For one, the Legendary items will be upgraded to keep their place as BiS. So they are just making a difference between Exotic and Legendary. Ascended will be of Legendary quality but less rare.
It sounds like a win and in keeping with their gear philosophy. What will matter is the content they add to obtain the gear. If the content is fun and accessible then so much the better. If it's not or it starts to mirror raid style exclusion, then I'm sure they will hear about it. One thing very positive that stands out in the article, to me, is they are also adding scavenger hunt style acquisition to loot as opposed to just token bartering or crafting. Crafting is getting an update as well.
ANet has added progression before in GW1 with Heroes. Progression doesn't always have to be about gear. Finally ANet never said there would be no progression, but that you're not getting RIFT style obsolescence and gear treadmill style grind.
Maybe it's just because I played GW1 for a long time, but this seems in keeping with ANets philosophy and shows they are at least listening.
Is this really a bad thing and how so?
The only mobs that could cast Spectral agony were the Mursaat. Their side kicks, the Jade conatructs would apply spectral agony on hit.
Again they didn' have to add a new item tier with higher stats.
The delivery mechanism doesn't really matter does it? In the end Spectral Agony could be applied by a few mobs. My point is that it could have been a lot more, but it wasn't. Hopefully the Agony condition will be used more extensively and somewhat more randomly in level 80 content going forward. It adds some diversity to mobs and combat.
No they didn't have to add gear, but then again they don't have to do everything in GW2 exactly like GW1 do they? They didn't add much gear progression in GW1 except greens (remember how people bitched about that?). They added progression via heroes. Should GW2 mirror that then?
The stats are going to mirror legendary gear but be less rare. Legendary are already in the game so, while they're adding a middle tier between Legendary and Exotic, it's not like they're adding a new much higher tier that obsoletes existing items. Again, how is that bad? Does it actually break their no-treadmill / no-obsolescence design model? It could, but it doesn't seem so.
No, the legendary are going to mirror ascendamt - at the moment legendary are exactly the same as exotic, so legendary will be boosted to match.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I posted this in a different thread which was closed and redirected here so I'll give it another go:
Originally posted by Cavod
Hey guys and/or gals making light of the stats, you might like to hear this about GW2 stat distribution on gear and know that the image posted is a little misleading.
Items have dominant and secondary stats. The dominant stat will always be 'worth more'. example MF is always considered dominant.
So a 3% MF difference is a bit more than "a couple stat points". Specifically here we see that 3 MF is in place of a "34" "45" "67" "101" in a different stat depending on the slot. So what may look like a +3 is actually more than +3. That's on top of the already +5 x2 shown in the example given in the blog.(my first link)
Good thing crit damage % isn't a dominant stat. Even so, if they include equal crit damage increases to the new gear it will impactful. In the case of a dual wielder, you have 14 gear slots. An increase of at least 1% would have to be present for crit damage which amounts to +14% crit damage over people without ascended gear. This is the minimum increase.(margin of error being 2?)
On a 5k crit that's 700 extra damage.
Furthermore, in the blog post she said they plan to extend this further than rings/back. Once you add together the difference between a full set of exotics versus ascended you can actually have something a lot more significant "a few points".
Let us not forget the awful LotRO-esque "radiance" system.
tl:dr= The actual potential the stat increase makes is nothing to scoff at.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
Originally posted by Jimmydean Pretty sure Anet just scrapped everything GW2 was based upon. And it might be enough to make me log in again.
They didn't scrap anything - understand the lore of the GW universe and all they are doing is returning things that were in GW1.
Lore has nothing to do with gear stat progression. But I'll take your comments under advisment. I'll place them right next to all of Aerowyn's posts about the entire game being endgame, and how exotics are the best items in game so there is no gear progression.
+1
There is no gear prgression - RELOOK at the pics. The stats are the same on those 2 pcs of armor - the only difference is one has the stats + a rune and the other is all stats + an infusion slot. IT IS NOT GEAR PROGRESSION lol
No.
You are wrong.
The Ascended item is +50, +50, +10%, +18, +18.
The exotic item is +48, +48, +7% (+3%+4%), +15, +15.
Look again.
It is like in GW1 - people demanding 15% above 50% mods when they did only one point damage above 14% above 50%. People dont understand math - it is not that much more - in fact another item done right - might have more. Game is still too new to say.
That was +1% damage of BASE WEAPON DAMAGE.
The higher based damage weapons were 19-35 (hammer) and 9-41 (scythe). And this was reduced by armor which means the base damage of these weapons was around 10, when guys wielding these weapons hit the mobs for 50-100, so we are talking about 1% of 10-20% of the damage.
Really insignificant.
Still, with Nightfall they made it so easy to get 15^50 that it became trivial.
Not exactly the case in here and as they say it is just the begining.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by 1vald2 Anyways, pointless talking to 99% of the people on this forum. You can smell the troll even before clicking on the threads
Whats the point of a discussion if everyone has a unified viewpoint?
That would make sense if those people wanted to have a discussion but it's always the same 5 or 10 people with an agenda looking for the latest drama to latch onto. It's not about game discussion. Hell, some of them even got refunds on the game yet still come in to "discuss" their disgust.
And you don't have an agenda? i am neither a hater or a fanboy but someone who is happy to see gear progression in GW2.
But from where i stand i don't see how you are any different than those you keep pointing fingers at? in every single reply of yours you bring the word 'agenda' even though it is very clear that you have your own agenda which motivates you to defend GW2 and Anet at every given oppertunity.
Of course I have an agenda. I actually play the game and like it. I've been playing GW for years now. I know exactly what I'm getting into and what I like and don't like about ANet. I just choose my battles and don't hop on the latest hate train like those who pick something out of every press release and update.
By the way, if you're looking for progression like you see in other games, you're going to be very disappointed.
Then please stop bringing up it in every single reply? everyone who posts here has an agenda.
As far kind of progression i am looking for. Anet has stated in article that they will keep on introducing new ascended gears and upgrades. Right now even if the increase is little under 10%, it is good enough for me to upgrade my gear and weapons. For a game whichw as all about cosmetic grind, any amount of difefrence in stats is good enough.
NO. Deal with it. There is a difference between having an agenda to discuss and enjoy the game and having an agenda to troll. We're all allowed to have the agenda to discuss game points and enjoy them. We're not allowed to go trolling with an agenda to stir shit up and cause trouble. Get it?
You can have that now with Legendary weapons. Ascended gear won't be better than Legendary and any Legendary items will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended. Ascended will be less rare than Legendary, that is all. They will keep adding Ascended and Legendary weapons to fill in missing slots.
Where did you get that Guild Wars is about cosmetic grind? There *is* cosmetic grind, but there has always been progression in the game of some sort or the other. Mostly it has been about faction skills, heroes, and getting the best mods on weapon type you want (or farming the greens that hold those). Why would you think GW2 was going to be different?
People who have opinion different than yours are not trolls they are just people who feel differently about new changes. And who appointed you the forum mod here? you don't have to worry about what is allowed here or not.
I could care less if you think your agenda is better or more just.
I simply wanted to point out your hypocricy for bringing 'agendas' in every post and dismissing what others have to say about the current issue on basis of that. Even though your agenda is to defend the game and cover up any negativity about the new changes. I don't think you get paid enough for this.
As far s where i got that GW2 was about cosmetic grind only. I am just going by what i have read so far and what ANet has been saying regarding horizontol progression. That is why it is a big shock for lot of players. And i understand their sentiments.
Exotic was suppossed to be the top gear where everyone has similar stats and the only thing that would change is appearance. That was original Anet stance regarding end game progression. If not they could have made legendaries with better stats before release but they didn't. So clearly now there is sudden shift in their original stance.
I knew I read this somewhere.. Took me awhile to find it.
"We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson
First, let me address the ongoing misinformtion meme that has popped up in this thread. GW2 sPvP and WvW are both very compelling for those who enjoy those forms of game play. However, they are not the focus of the game, at the expense of PvE. This is one of the best, most expansive PvE based MMOs on the market. Stop saying this game doesn't offer a solid PvE experience, it just betrays the fact that you don't know anything about the game!
Ok. That said...
What do we have for ascended gear on release of Fractals of the Mist? Rings and a back piece. The back piece has some potential to provide advantage outside of FotM, given the general lack of back armor in the game. The rings, however, have slightly better stats than Exotic Rings as an offset to the fact that the Ascended Rings have no enhancement slots! My guess is that fully enhanced Exotics will have stats pretty much on par with Ascended Rings.
Agony and Infusions. Agony appears to be limited only to the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon. Infusions and anti-Agony item stats offer zero benefit outside of FotM.
FotM gets more difficult with each phase/wave of three Fractals a group completes. It makes sense that the introduction and ratcheting up of Agony will play a major role in difficulty scaling as a group pushes the wave progression during a session. With greater difficulty comes greater reward, but I would anticipat that a group that has the time to complete to three wave runs will still earn a fair amount of reward for the effort, even if a group with infused gear completing a six wave run in the same period of time earns a bit more.
The dungeon doesn't preclude casuals, who probably wouldn't have time for a full six wave run anyway. They can even earn Ascended gear and infusiuons, even if at a slower rate, which will open up deeper runs on those occassions when they are able to devote an entire evening to pushing a run to the party's limits.
This is a pretty creative way to scratch a particular dungeon progression itch, with out producing a negative impact on casual players and tose who decide to pass entirely on FotM.
First, let me address the ongoing misinformtion meme that has popped up in this thread. GW2 sPvP and WvW are both very compelling for those who enjoy those forms of game play. However, they are not the focus of the game, at the expense of PvE. This is one of the best, most expansive PvE based MMOs on the market. Stop saying this game doesn't offer a solid PvE experience, it just betrays the fact that you don't know anything about the game!
Ok. That said...
What do we have for ascenced gear on release of Fractals of the Mist? Rings and a back piece. The back piece has some potential to provide advantage outside of FotM, given the general lack of back armor in the game. The rings, however, have slightly better stats than Exotic Rings as an offset to the fact that the Ascended Rings have no enhancement slots! My guess is that fully enhanced Exotics will have stats pretty much on par with Ascended Rings.
Agony and Infusions. Agony appears to be limited only to the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon. Infusions and anti-Agony item stats offer zero benefit outside of FotM.
FotM gets more difficult with each phase/wave of three Fractals a group completes. It makes sense that the introduction and ratcheting up of Agony will play a major role in difficulty scaling as a group pushes the wave progression during a session. With greater difficulty comes greater reward, but I would anticipat that a group that has the time to complete to three wave runs will still earn a fair amount of reward for the effort, even if a group with infused gear completing a six wave run in the same period of time earns a bit more.
The dungeon doesn't preclude casuals, who probably wouldn't have time for a full six wave run anyway. They can even earn Ascended gear and infusiuons, even if at a slower rate, which will open up deeper runs on those occassions when they are able to devote an entire evening to pushing a run to the party's limits.
This is a pretty creative way to scrath a particular dungeon progression itch, with out producing a negative impact on casual players and tose who decide to pass entirely on FotM.
with the promise of more to come. Not speculation but their own words.
Infusion and agony on their own are ok, even if giving overpowered skills to mobs that then are manageable with gear is a very uninspiring way of creating challenge.
No need to create a gear tier that is in essence is a nerf to all the existing level 80 content.
I know that this thread is filled with trolls that don't give a damn about GW2 (maybe eome are affraid a game without forced grouping and where you have no power other others is successful) but there is no point pretending certain things are wrtten in the blog post - they are there, mention of a full ascendant kit which means a 10%buff in stats vs all the current level 80 content, that is harder to get than exotic (meaning casuals might never catch up).
Aside from the trolls that bitch about anything resembling GW2, there is a ton of people comingout protesting against the change of direction.
Just look at the official forums,how many are posting for the first time in there.
The game isn't instantly turned to crap by this move but IT GAINS NOTHING.
THERE IS NO BENEFIT COMING OUT OF MORE GEAR TIERS!
All the items that aren't max stats are crap, are fillers, are merchant fodder and they will always be.
Some may get all excited about getting a new shinny with a bigger number.
I and a portion of the GW2 player base (including GW1 vets) are way over that.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
remind me to write ANET a letter tomorrow thanking them for being so unclear and vague about something SO IMPORTANT (and yes i truly think it's important right now)...
Please don't ignore the fact that the increased stats on ascended gear are meant as an offset to the lack of enhancement slots. There may, or may not, stil be a slight advantage in overall stats when comparing a piece of ascended gear to a piece of fully enhanced exotic gear. Even if there is, it will not be 8%, or 10%, or what ever number people are pulling into the discussion.
Yes, we know that eventually there will be full sets of Ascended gear. Put this in the context of the comment that Fractals of the Mist will be expanded over the course of the "years to come". No, we do not know how the stats of Ascended Armor will compare to Exotics and all we can do in that reguard is speculate. Trinkets and even back armor are strait forward. The enhancements for them are straight stat boosts. Armor uses Runes for enhancement. Runes include some specific stat boost, but many also offer other boosts or effects beyond the basic stats.
It remains to be seen how they will adjust Ascended Armor for the lack of Enhancement Slots. My speculation is that there will be numerous sets that operate like runed gear. However, since the rune sets wil be built into each piece, getting sets wil require a lot ore work than buying a set of runes of the Trading Post, while also removing the customization normal gear offers.
What's the purpose? It's not to introduce gear inflation to the game proper. It's all about offering a form of gear progression with in the sandbox (I'm not using the term as used when discussing MMOs) that is Fractals of the Mist. It seems to me that FotM has potential to provide an experience similar to what is found in some of the multi-player dungeon crawl games, with in the greater context of GW2.
GW2 offers an expansive, immersive PvE world with great breadth and depth, which is greatly enhanced by Dynamic Events and Level Scaling. It offers a fair to good story mode on par with most single player RPGs. It offers WvW, which is the best open zone, structured, objective driven mass combat mode found in any MMO since Dark Age of Camelot. It also offers a pretty compelling structured PvP mode that looks to improve and grow over time. Add in FotM and it's clear that GW2 is meant to be many games all in one, which is great for broadening appeal and offering more options for players who want a change of pace from their prefered game mode.
I felt let down by the promise of Activities, when the game launched with only the Norn Keg Brawl, rather than the half dozen to dozen activities that Arenenaet had hinted at, but I expect that activities will eventually become more prolific in the game over time, further expanding the concept of having many outlets and styles of play all with in the greater game.
I think this is a concept that Arenanet will continue to expand upon and I suspect that in the months and years to come, Fractals of the Mist won't be the only major alternative game mode that the game will see.
First, let me address the ongoing misinformtion meme that has popped up in this thread. GW2 sPvP and WvW are both very compelling for those who enjoy those forms of game play. However, they are not the focus of the game, at the expense of PvE. This is one of the best, most expansive PvE based MMOs on the market. Stop saying this game doesn't offer a solid PvE experience, it just betrays the fact that you don't know anything about the game!
Ok. That said...
What do we have for ascenced gear on release of Fractals of the Mist? Rings and a back piece. The back piece has some potential to provide advantage outside of FotM, given the general lack of back armor in the game. The rings, however, have slightly better stats than Exotic Rings as an offset to the fact that the Ascended Rings have no enhancement slots! My guess is that fully enhanced Exotics will have stats pretty much on par with Ascended Rings.
Agony and Infusions. Agony appears to be limited only to the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon. Infusions and anti-Agony item stats offer zero benefit outside of FotM.
FotM gets more difficult with each phase/wave of three Fractals a group completes. It makes sense that the introduction and ratcheting up of Agony will play a major role in difficulty scaling as a group pushes the wave progression during a session. With greater difficulty comes greater reward, but I would anticipat that a group that has the time to complete to three wave runs will still earn a fair amount of reward for the effort, even if a group with infused gear completing a six wave run in the same period of time earns a bit more.
The dungeon doesn't preclude casuals, who probably wouldn't have time for a full six wave run anyway. They can even earn Ascended gear and infusiuons, even if at a slower rate, which will open up deeper runs on those occassions when they are able to devote an entire evening to pushing a run to the party's limits.
This is a pretty creative way to scrath a particular dungeon progression itch, with out producing a negative impact on casual players and tose who decide to pass entirely on FotM.
with the promise of more to come. Not speculation but their own words.
Infusion and agony on their own are ok, even if giving overpowered skills to mobs that then are manageable with gear is a very uninspiring way of creating challenge.
No need to create a gear tier that is in essence is a nerf to all the existing level 80 content.
I know that this thread is filled with trolls that don't give a damn about GW2 (maybe eome are affraid a game without forced grouping and where you have no power other others is successful) but there is no point pretending certain things are wrtten in the blog post - they are there, mention of a full ascendant kit which means a 10%buff in stats vs all the current level 80 content, that is harder to get than exotic (meaning casuals might never catch up).
Aside from the trolls that bitch about anything resembling GW2, there is a ton of people comingout protesting against the change of direction.
Just look at the official forums,how many are posting for the first time in there.
The game isn't instantly turned to crap by this move but IT GAINS NOTHING.
THERE IS NO BENEFIT COMING OUT OF MORE GEAR TIERS!
All the items that aren't max stats are crap, are fillers, are merchant fodder and they will always be.
Some may get all excited about getting a new shinny with a bigger number.
I and a portion of the GW2 player base (including GW1 vets) are way over that.
I agree, but according to some in this thread thats ok this is nothing to worry about its only two pieces....
Some of us can't have our own opinions without people asking us to explain why we don't like it, I mean because I know if I explain to you why I don't like it its gonna change your opinion don't think so....
Nothing wrong with them releasing new gear, I think the issue is the potential gear gating. ANET should ask Turbine how their radiance experiment worked out. Or in WoW when you need resist gear to even stand up to some bosses. We'll have to wait and see but if it is like radiance, boy oh boy will they get the backlash of their lives.
Then there were things like lightbringer rank that was used to fight Abbadon Minions.
The infusion could still exist by allowing you to upgrade existing armor/items into ascended by doing the dungeon/complating quests.
There is no need for another tier of items.
You would have stuff to do, grind to do with 0 impact in any other part of the game.
It is just bad design choices.
Yeah that's true that it was on the existing armor but you obviously ignored the part in which I said that they connect the new armor with new future contents.
Which means we won't get it yet anyway and that the backpack and the rings are just a small piece of them to introduce these things.
Also obvious that the impact will barely be there at all for WvsWvsW for know reasons and for the fact that legendary items already exists since the beginning and will remain to be the top tier.
Remember in GW1 the elite armors?
There were "normal versions" and there were "exclusive" versions.
This is handled here through skins and stats through the dungeons, crafting and so on and it's the same case here.
Having 3 more points on your stats then me doesn't matter much since in WvsWvsW as I said before it does nothing and you can die as easily if you get zerged.
In dungeons it won't matter either if I play better than you do.
In PvE outside I could care less what you do since it doesn't affect me or anyone else at all.
Legendary items have the same stats as exotics.
Elite armors have same stats as Normal in GW1 - 10K hours GW1 veteran here.
I always loved that warrior with chaos gloves, obsidian armor and obsidan edge that had no clue how to vanquish one of the northern shiverpeak areas with 3 dolyak master group or had no idea how to do slavers hm, while I with normal armor could do it with my eyes closed.
You know why?
Because it was all about skill.
The bigger the stats differences between tiers the least skill can show off. So it is either grind or be less powerful.
Good to know I'm talking with another GW1 Veteran.
With that said and as you could see yourself, these 3 points won't change much on the stats so one can't go and say "I have a ascended armor and because of that I'll do better than you with exotics", unless a infusion is needed that the exotic armor won't have.
As they already stated that's also the whole point of the ascended armor, it is introduced for lore purposes and for the stronger future contents that will come our way for the level 80 people.
The legendary items won't lose their value either cause they will get set on the ascended stats anyway.
We also still don't quite know if the ascended is meant for certain areas/dungeons only since in the article, it mentions the expansion of the dungeon and later content additions.
The fact that I was able to even kill people that were higher than me with my level 11- 21 characters in WvsWvsW and without help, already shows that the game still is about skill.
My elementalist is level 80 and I don't have even one single piece of exotics on.
I still survive very well in WvsWvsW against others that have some on and that's something the ascendend armor won't change either.
Good to know I'm talking with another GW1 Veteran.
With that said and as you could see yourself, these 3 points won't change much on the stats so one can't go and say "I have a ascended armor and because of that I'll do better than you with exotics", unless a infusion is needed that the exotic armor won't have.
As they already stated that's also the whole point of the ascended armor, it is introduced for lore purposes and for the stronger future contents that will come our way for the level 80 people.
The legendary items won't lose their value either cause they will get set on the ascended stats anyway.
We also still don't quite know if the ascended is meant for certain areas/dungeons only since in the article, it mentions the expansion of the dungeon and later content additions.
The fact that I was able to even kill people that were higher than me with my level 11- 21 characters in WvsWvsW and without help, already shows that the game still is about skill.
My elementalist is level 80 and I don't have even one single piece of exotics on.
I still survive very well in WvsWvsW against others that have some on and that's something the ascendend armor won't change either.
Stronger content = higher stats mobs that require higher stats gear to equalize is poor content design.
You should know that being a GW1 veteran - eye of the north charr and stone summit (espicially slaver's exile) were some of the thoughest mobs in the game, not because they were the higher stats mobs in the game since they weren't, but because they had better team builds (some of the builds mimmicked human builds). Of course with time an skill power creep Ai got crushed, but AI always do.
A level 80 wolf is as hard/easy as a level 1 wolf if they simply use the same skills and same tactics, one just require higher stats by part of the player to match it - dodging a 500 damage attack when you have 575 health is as easy as dodging a 5000 damage attack when you have 5750 health.
In fact legendaries just became much better - now it is the only items guaranteed to be bis. Ascendant, Ascendant 2.0, Ascendant 3.0, meh, my legendaries auto uprade and I can ignore all the new grind.
A person with exotic items is more powerful than one with full rares, there is no pretending it isn't and two players of equal skill with exotcis will beat one with rares. An ascendant equiped player will be that rare one even easier.
Just being in WvW (works in PvE as well) will give you bonuses based on how good your server is doing, like maximum health, endurance, more healin, better healing, etc.
I know very well that ascendant has higher stats than exotics with gems - stats work everywhere. The infusion might or not work in other places, we don't know that (I doubt it will work).
Again, IGNORING INFUSION, Ascendant has HIGHER STATS than EXOTICS WITH A GEM.
Ascendant stats COVER THE LOSS OF THE GEM AND ADD ON TOP of THAT.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Good to know I'm talking with another GW1 Veteran.
With that said and as you could see yourself, these 3 points won't change much on the stats so one can't go and say "I have a ascended armor and because of that I'll do better than you with exotics", unless a infusion is needed that the exotic armor won't have.
As they already stated that's also the whole point of the ascended armor, it is introduced for lore purposes and for the stronger future contents that will come our way for the level 80 people.
The legendary items won't lose their value either cause they will get set on the ascended stats anyway.
We also still don't quite know if the ascended is meant for certain areas/dungeons only since in the article, it mentions the expansion of the dungeon and later content additions.
The fact that I was able to even kill people that were higher than me with my level 11- 21 characters in WvsWvsW and without help, already shows that the game still is about skill.
My elementalist is level 80 and I don't have even one single piece of exotics on.
I still survive very well in WvsWvsW against others that have some on and that's something the ascendend armor won't change either.
Stronger content = higher stats mobs that require higher stats gear to equalize is poor content design.
You should know that being a GW1 veteran - eye of the north charr and stone summit (espicially slaver's exile) were some of the thoughest mobs in the game, not because they were the higher stats mobs in the game since they weren't, but because they had better team builds (some of the builds mimmicked human builds). Of course with time an skill power creep Ai got crushed, but AI always do.
A level 80 wolf is as hard/easy as a level 1 wolf if they simply use the same skills and same tactics, one just require higher stats by part of the player to match it - dodging a 500 damage attack when you have 575 health is as easy as dodging a 5000 damage attack when you have 5750 health.
In fact legendaries just became much better - now it is the only items guaranteed to be bis. Ascendant, Ascendant 2.0, Ascendant 3.0, meh, my legendaries auto uprade and I can ignore all the new grind.
A person with exotic items is more powerful than one with full rares, there is no pretending it isn't and two players of equal skill with exotcis will beat one with rares. An ascendant equiped player will be that rare one even easier.
Just being in WvW (works in PvE as well) will give you bonuses based on how good your server is doing, like maximum health, endurance, more healin, better healing, etc.
I know very well that ascendant has higher stats than exotics with gems - stats work everywhere. The infusion might or not work in other places, we don't know that (I doubt it will work).
Again, IGNORING INFUSION, Ascendant has HIGHER STATS than EXOTICS WITH A GEM.
Ascendant stats COVER THE LOSS OF THE GEM AND ADD ON TOP of THAT.
I agree that it equals weak design when people add higher stats to equal harder mobs which are also based on higher stats only.
However, that's something we don't really know cause "stronger content" could also mean:
- more difficult dungeons
- more difficult enemies as the AI using additional tactics they are given through environment, traps and such to make our life even harder than it already can be, instead of having higher stats only.
As about GW1 I indeed "hated" the slavers exile and mostly the hard mode on places, cause if you went alone or with heroes (even with a full team sometimes), you mostly ended up at 60% death penalty in no time.
I didn't say that someone with exotics isn't stronger than someone with rares or green/blue items.
However, I saw level 35 people with green/blue items in the AC (as example), surviving much longer than level 80s with exotic or rare gear.
This fact already speaks for itself in my opinion that if you don't know how to play your character well, no gear will help you in GW2.
Yes the ascended items are adding +2 to +3 points over the stats of a exotic with gems in the rings case but even if it adds like that for the armor, it's still not gamebreaking, nor does it have to mean that .
The gem on the exotics also gives you more combination possibilities cause you can mix things up through them more.
In the ascended case you are going with what you have and that's it.
why people are never happy at all, all they want its to cater a little some ''hardcore'' pve'rs nothing special or unbalanced about that, we must be happy and talk about they are bringing new dungeons or new content, move on m8´s.
I agree that it equals weak design when people add higher stats to equal harder mobs which are also based on higher stats only.
However, that's something we don't really know cause "stronger content" could also mean:
- more difficult dungeons
- more difficult enemies as the AI using additional tactics they are given through environment, traps and such to make our life even harder than it already can be, instead of having higher stats only.
As about GW1 I indeed "hated" the slavers exile and mostly the hard mode on places, cause if you went alone or with heroes (even with a full team sometimes), you mostly ended up at 60% death penalty in no time.
I didn't say that someone with exotics isn't stronger than someone with rares or green/blue items.
However, I saw level 35 people with green/blue items in the AC (as example), surviving much longer than level 80s with exotic or rare gear.
This fact already speaks for itself in my opinion that if you don't know how to play your character well, no gear will help you in GW2.
Yes the ascended items are adding +2 to +3 points over the stats of a exotic with gems in the rings case but even if it adds like that for the armor, it's still not gamebreaking, nor does it have to mean that .
The gem on the exotics also gives you more combination possibilities cause you can mix things up through them more.
In the ascended case you are going with what you have and that's it.
Again challenge has nothing to do with stats, so challenge can increase without changing stats, vide the mad king clock tower, no stats involved.
Since challenge isn't tied to stats we can drop that argument.
The second argument isn't very interesting - balance is always done at highest skill levels.
Beating a "noob" with a handicap doesn't meant the handicap isn't there, just means the skill gap is bigger than that.
So, this argument is also void.
The ring -. it is an example that shows exotic->ascendant differences. There will be rings matching all the possible exotic configurations.
Again, if ascendent weren't bis, legendaries wouldn't be updated to match ascendant stats.
Once again, void argument.
They are adding +stats because (some) people equate that to more power and progression.
It is all there.
I, that i'm not a game designer, could add te content, the skins, the infusion and agony mechanic without adding a tier of items that added more stats.
Anet is adding more stats because they want to since they are equating stats with power and progression.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
When some of us here say that gw2 need a carrot on a stick to keep the players, maintain the pop, keep WvW going, gw2 fanboys swarm in and say its all about fun, challange etc...
They fail to realise that without a carrot for players, without a goal they will soon leave.
Anet see this on the stats on their servers pop, and thus implement it.
We need to realise that a mmo need some sort of tangible goal for players to achieve, cosmetic just wont cut it anymore!
I just hope that from now onwards, all of you here will realise that for a themepark mmo, inregardless of how they mask it, a gear progression is the necessary evil.
Dont ever jump onto a theme park mmo that promise otherwise anymore....
When some of us here say that gw2 need a carrot on a stick to keep the players, maintain the pop, keep WvW going, gw2 fanboys swarm in and say its all about fun, challange etc...
They fail to realise that without a carrot for players, without a goal they will soon leave.
Anet see this on the stats on their servers pop, and thus implement it.
We need to realise that a mmo need some sort of tangible goal for players to achieve, cosmetic just wont cut it anymore!
I just hope that from now onwards, all of you here will realise that for a themepark mmo, inregardless of how they mask it, a gear progression is the necessary evil.
Dont ever jump onto a theme park mmo that promise otherwise anymore....
You mean the donkeys will leave while the players will be waiting for new toys to play and tinker with.
And of course, the donkeys that actually come back will be leaving again the moment they get the new carrot.
Well maybe 10% power increase will be enough for them to do the old dungeons without graveyard zerging.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
why people are never happy at all, all they want its to cater a little some ''hardcore'' pve'rs nothing special or unbalanced about that, we must be happy and talk about they are bringing new dungeons or new content, move on m8´s.
Hardcore PvE'rs?
They left before getting legendary weapons because they add no stats!
Hardcore PvE'rs get GWAMM for no reward or play for 5 years with barely no content updates.
Those "hardcore PvE'rs" want raids with 30 people where only a couple get items.
Those "hardcore PvE'rs" want their tanks and healers because they can't stay alive since speccing defense and offense is too hard.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Comments
3 reasons:
- mandatory grind is extended (unless you believe max stats isn't mandatory);
- old content ia made easier (unless you don't think +10% stats doesn't make it easier):
- new content isn't more challenging - dodging a sword that deals 10k damage or 1000 damage is as hard.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
It is like in GW1 - people demanding 15% above 50% mods when they did only one point damage above 14% above 50%. People dont understand math - it is not that much more - in fact another item done right - might have more. Game is still too new to say.
No, the legendary are going to mirror ascendamt - at the moment legendary are exactly the same as exotic, so legendary will be boosted to match.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I posted this in a different thread which was closed and redirected here so I'll give it another go:
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
That was +1% damage of BASE WEAPON DAMAGE.
The higher based damage weapons were 19-35 (hammer) and 9-41 (scythe). And this was reduced by armor which means the base damage of these weapons was around 10, when guys wielding these weapons hit the mobs for 50-100, so we are talking about 1% of 10-20% of the damage.
Really insignificant.
Still, with Nightfall they made it so easy to get 15^50 that it became trivial.
Not exactly the case in here and as they say it is just the begining.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
People who have opinion different than yours are not trolls they are just people who feel differently about new changes. And who appointed you the forum mod here? you don't have to worry about what is allowed here or not.
I could care less if you think your agenda is better or more just.
I simply wanted to point out your hypocricy for bringing 'agendas' in every post and dismissing what others have to say about the current issue on basis of that. Even though your agenda is to defend the game and cover up any negativity about the new changes. I don't think you get paid enough for this.
As far s where i got that GW2 was about cosmetic grind only. I am just going by what i have read so far and what ANet has been saying regarding horizontol progression. That is why it is a big shock for lot of players. And i understand their sentiments.
Exotic was suppossed to be the top gear where everyone has similar stats and the only thing that would change is appearance. That was original Anet stance regarding end game progression. If not they could have made legendaries with better stats before release but they didn't. So clearly now there is sudden shift in their original stance.
I knew I read this somewhere.. Took me awhile to find it.
"We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
First, let me address the ongoing misinformtion meme that has popped up in this thread. GW2 sPvP and WvW are both very compelling for those who enjoy those forms of game play. However, they are not the focus of the game, at the expense of PvE. This is one of the best, most expansive PvE based MMOs on the market. Stop saying this game doesn't offer a solid PvE experience, it just betrays the fact that you don't know anything about the game!
Ok. That said...
What do we have for ascended gear on release of Fractals of the Mist? Rings and a back piece. The back piece has some potential to provide advantage outside of FotM, given the general lack of back armor in the game. The rings, however, have slightly better stats than Exotic Rings as an offset to the fact that the Ascended Rings have no enhancement slots! My guess is that fully enhanced Exotics will have stats pretty much on par with Ascended Rings.
Agony and Infusions. Agony appears to be limited only to the Fractals of the Mist Dungeon. Infusions and anti-Agony item stats offer zero benefit outside of FotM.
FotM gets more difficult with each phase/wave of three Fractals a group completes. It makes sense that the introduction and ratcheting up of Agony will play a major role in difficulty scaling as a group pushes the wave progression during a session. With greater difficulty comes greater reward, but I would anticipat that a group that has the time to complete to three wave runs will still earn a fair amount of reward for the effort, even if a group with infused gear completing a six wave run in the same period of time earns a bit more.
The dungeon doesn't preclude casuals, who probably wouldn't have time for a full six wave run anyway. They can even earn Ascended gear and infusiuons, even if at a slower rate, which will open up deeper runs on those occassions when they are able to devote an entire evening to pushing a run to the party's limits.
This is a pretty creative way to scratch a particular dungeon progression itch, with out producing a negative impact on casual players and tose who decide to pass entirely on FotM.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
with the promise of more to come. Not speculation but their own words.
Infusion and agony on their own are ok, even if giving overpowered skills to mobs that then are manageable with gear is a very uninspiring way of creating challenge.
No need to create a gear tier that is in essence is a nerf to all the existing level 80 content.
I know that this thread is filled with trolls that don't give a damn about GW2 (maybe eome are affraid a game without forced grouping and where you have no power other others is successful) but there is no point pretending certain things are wrtten in the blog post - they are there, mention of a full ascendant kit which means a 10%buff in stats vs all the current level 80 content, that is harder to get than exotic (meaning casuals might never catch up).
Aside from the trolls that bitch about anything resembling GW2, there is a ton of people comingout protesting against the change of direction.
Just look at the official forums,how many are posting for the first time in there.
The game isn't instantly turned to crap by this move but IT GAINS NOTHING.
THERE IS NO BENEFIT COMING OUT OF MORE GEAR TIERS!
All the items that aren't max stats are crap, are fillers, are merchant fodder and they will always be.
Some may get all excited about getting a new shinny with a bigger number.
I and a portion of the GW2 player base (including GW1 vets) are way over that.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
remind me to write ANET a letter tomorrow thanking them for being so unclear and vague about something SO IMPORTANT (and yes i truly think it's important right now)...
Gave me many amusing posts to read.
Please don't ignore the fact that the increased stats on ascended gear are meant as an offset to the lack of enhancement slots. There may, or may not, stil be a slight advantage in overall stats when comparing a piece of ascended gear to a piece of fully enhanced exotic gear. Even if there is, it will not be 8%, or 10%, or what ever number people are pulling into the discussion.
Yes, we know that eventually there will be full sets of Ascended gear. Put this in the context of the comment that Fractals of the Mist will be expanded over the course of the "years to come". No, we do not know how the stats of Ascended Armor will compare to Exotics and all we can do in that reguard is speculate. Trinkets and even back armor are strait forward. The enhancements for them are straight stat boosts. Armor uses Runes for enhancement. Runes include some specific stat boost, but many also offer other boosts or effects beyond the basic stats.
It remains to be seen how they will adjust Ascended Armor for the lack of Enhancement Slots. My speculation is that there will be numerous sets that operate like runed gear. However, since the rune sets wil be built into each piece, getting sets wil require a lot ore work than buying a set of runes of the Trading Post, while also removing the customization normal gear offers.
What's the purpose? It's not to introduce gear inflation to the game proper. It's all about offering a form of gear progression with in the sandbox (I'm not using the term as used when discussing MMOs) that is Fractals of the Mist. It seems to me that FotM has potential to provide an experience similar to what is found in some of the multi-player dungeon crawl games, with in the greater context of GW2.
GW2 offers an expansive, immersive PvE world with great breadth and depth, which is greatly enhanced by Dynamic Events and Level Scaling. It offers a fair to good story mode on par with most single player RPGs. It offers WvW, which is the best open zone, structured, objective driven mass combat mode found in any MMO since Dark Age of Camelot. It also offers a pretty compelling structured PvP mode that looks to improve and grow over time. Add in FotM and it's clear that GW2 is meant to be many games all in one, which is great for broadening appeal and offering more options for players who want a change of pace from their prefered game mode.
I felt let down by the promise of Activities, when the game launched with only the Norn Keg Brawl, rather than the half dozen to dozen activities that Arenenaet had hinted at, but I expect that activities will eventually become more prolific in the game over time, further expanding the concept of having many outlets and styles of play all with in the greater game.
I think this is a concept that Arenanet will continue to expand upon and I suspect that in the months and years to come, Fractals of the Mist won't be the only major alternative game mode that the game will see.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I agree, but according to some in this thread thats ok this is nothing to worry about its only two pieces....
Some of us can't have our own opinions without people asking us to explain why we don't like it, I mean because I know if I explain to you why I don't like it its gonna change your opinion don't think so....
Mother of god.. This thread is hard to find things in... So huge.
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/page/120
That is some communication at least. I still have questions and basically all it says to me is.. Our tiered gearing is going to be slow. -shrug-
Least they plan on making it available through PVE and WVW.
Also... With it only being three months in.. I'm pretty confident in saying that this was the plan all along.
After gathering more information, I'm back on the "nothing to worry about" train. Things just look wrong on the surface.
I will enjoy the Lost Shores for sure.
Good to know I'm talking with another GW1 Veteran.
With that said and as you could see yourself, these 3 points won't change much on the stats so one can't go and say "I have a ascended armor and because of that I'll do better than you with exotics", unless a infusion is needed that the exotic armor won't have.
As they already stated that's also the whole point of the ascended armor, it is introduced for lore purposes and for the stronger future contents that will come our way for the level 80 people.
The legendary items won't lose their value either cause they will get set on the ascended stats anyway.
We also still don't quite know if the ascended is meant for certain areas/dungeons only since in the article, it mentions the expansion of the dungeon and later content additions.
The fact that I was able to even kill people that were higher than me with my level 11- 21 characters in WvsWvsW and without help, already shows that the game still is about skill.
My elementalist is level 80 and I don't have even one single piece of exotics on.
I still survive very well in WvsWvsW against others that have some on and that's something the ascendend armor won't change either.
Stronger content = higher stats mobs that require higher stats gear to equalize is poor content design.
You should know that being a GW1 veteran - eye of the north charr and stone summit (espicially slaver's exile) were some of the thoughest mobs in the game, not because they were the higher stats mobs in the game since they weren't, but because they had better team builds (some of the builds mimmicked human builds). Of course with time an skill power creep Ai got crushed, but AI always do.
A level 80 wolf is as hard/easy as a level 1 wolf if they simply use the same skills and same tactics, one just require higher stats by part of the player to match it - dodging a 500 damage attack when you have 575 health is as easy as dodging a 5000 damage attack when you have 5750 health.
In fact legendaries just became much better - now it is the only items guaranteed to be bis. Ascendant, Ascendant 2.0, Ascendant 3.0, meh, my legendaries auto uprade and I can ignore all the new grind.
A person with exotic items is more powerful than one with full rares, there is no pretending it isn't and two players of equal skill with exotcis will beat one with rares. An ascendant equiped player will be that rare one even easier.
Just being in WvW (works in PvE as well) will give you bonuses based on how good your server is doing, like maximum health, endurance, more healin, better healing, etc.
I know very well that ascendant has higher stats than exotics with gems - stats work everywhere. The infusion might or not work in other places, we don't know that (I doubt it will work).
Again, IGNORING INFUSION, Ascendant has HIGHER STATS than EXOTICS WITH A GEM.
Ascendant stats COVER THE LOSS OF THE GEM AND ADD ON TOP of THAT.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I agree that it equals weak design when people add higher stats to equal harder mobs which are also based on higher stats only.
However, that's something we don't really know cause "stronger content" could also mean:
- more difficult dungeons
- more difficult enemies as the AI using additional tactics they are given through environment, traps and such to make our life even harder than it already can be, instead of having higher stats only.
As about GW1 I indeed "hated" the slavers exile and mostly the hard mode on places, cause if you went alone or with heroes (even with a full team sometimes), you mostly ended up at 60% death penalty in no time.
I didn't say that someone with exotics isn't stronger than someone with rares or green/blue items.
However, I saw level 35 people with green/blue items in the AC (as example), surviving much longer than level 80s with exotic or rare gear.
This fact already speaks for itself in my opinion that if you don't know how to play your character well, no gear will help you in GW2.
Yes the ascended items are adding +2 to +3 points over the stats of a exotic with gems in the rings case but even if it adds like that for the armor, it's still not gamebreaking, nor does it have to mean that .
The gem on the exotics also gives you more combination possibilities cause you can mix things up through them more.
In the ascended case you are going with what you have and that's it.
why people are never happy at all, all they want its to cater a little some ''hardcore'' pve'rs nothing special or unbalanced about that, we must be happy and talk about they are bringing new dungeons or new content, move on m8´s.
Again challenge has nothing to do with stats, so challenge can increase without changing stats, vide the mad king clock tower, no stats involved.
Since challenge isn't tied to stats we can drop that argument.
The second argument isn't very interesting - balance is always done at highest skill levels.
Beating a "noob" with a handicap doesn't meant the handicap isn't there, just means the skill gap is bigger than that.
So, this argument is also void.
The ring -. it is an example that shows exotic->ascendant differences. There will be rings matching all the possible exotic configurations.
Again, if ascendent weren't bis, legendaries wouldn't be updated to match ascendant stats.
Once again, void argument.
They are adding +stats because (some) people equate that to more power and progression.
It is all there.
I, that i'm not a game designer, could add te content, the skins, the infusion and agony mechanic without adding a tier of items that added more stats.
Anet is adding more stats because they want to since they are equating stats with power and progression.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
When some of us here say that gw2 need a carrot on a stick to keep the players, maintain the pop, keep WvW going, gw2 fanboys swarm in and say its all about fun, challange etc...
They fail to realise that without a carrot for players, without a goal they will soon leave.
Anet see this on the stats on their servers pop, and thus implement it.
We need to realise that a mmo need some sort of tangible goal for players to achieve, cosmetic just wont cut it anymore!
I just hope that from now onwards, all of you here will realise that for a themepark mmo, inregardless of how they mask it, a gear progression is the necessary evil.
Dont ever jump onto a theme park mmo that promise otherwise anymore....
RIP Orc Choppa
You mean the donkeys will leave while the players will be waiting for new toys to play and tinker with.
And of course, the donkeys that actually come back will be leaving again the moment they get the new carrot.
Well maybe 10% power increase will be enough for them to do the old dungeons without graveyard zerging.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Hardcore PvE'rs?
They left before getting legendary weapons because they add no stats!
Hardcore PvE'rs get GWAMM for no reward or play for 5 years with barely no content updates.
Those "hardcore PvE'rs" want raids with 30 people where only a couple get items.
Those "hardcore PvE'rs" want their tanks and healers because they can't stay alive since speccing defense and offense is too hard.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders