I think a major issue that's brought up a lot of the hate would be them charging for quickslot bars. I have never seen a company charge for a UI element before. It's just absurd.
Hey I really like this game and really want to play it. I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea. I prefer free to play games for this reason.
Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.
And?
You have a product that noone wants to pay for (EAs own words). It doesnt matter how much it had cost you to produce or how long, its not matter of "is 15$ as an absolute amount large or small sum of money" , only thing that matters is do people see value for their money, and they should consider THAT before launch.
If you offer (advertise) something for free, and its far form free dont sulk when you get the beating, because its your own fault.
I logged in on my lvl 40 to check out the hype and maybe play a little.
As it turned out i only had 2 quick bars so i logged off in disgust. Just to much work for the hassle. Funny thing is that i have no problem paying a sub either, but annoyed people dont like spending money.
Simply put, its about reeling people in, and not annoying them.
Hey I really like this game and really want to play it. I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea. I prefer free to play games for this reason.
Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.
And?
You have a product that noone wants to pay for (EAs own words). It doesnt matter how much it had cost you to produce or how long, its not matter of "is 15$ as an absolute amount large or small sum of money" , only thing that matters is do people see value for their money, and they should consider THAT before launch.
If you offer (advertise) something for free, and its far form free dont sulk when you get the beating, because its your own fault.
I still don't get this complaint. Even the dumb action bar restrictions don't get in the way of playing 1-50. None of the classes are restricted, only races. The credit limit isn't an issue until post-50. Same goes for the AH limitation. About the only thing that could be considered a real "issue" is the slower experience gains, but if anything it just encourages people to try out all the various stuff in the game besides questing (warzones, space missions, flashpoints).
Playing the game as a free player at 50 is a different story, but I think the whole point is that by then, if people have enjoyed the game, they'll start subscribing. It's not meant to be free forever, or with trivial restrcitions. If that was the case, why would anyone sub?
Hey I really like this game and really want to play it. I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea. I prefer free to play games for this reason.
Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.
And?
You have a product that noone wants to pay for (EAs own words). It doesnt matter how much it had cost you to produce or how long, its not matter of "is 15$ as an absolute amount large or small sum of money" , only thing that matters is do people see value for their money, and they should consider THAT before launch.
If you offer (advertise) something for free, and its far form free dont sulk when you get the beating, because its your own fault.
I still don't get this complaint. Even the dumb action bar restrictions don't get in the way of playing 1-50. None of the classes are restricted, only races. The credit limit isn't an issue until post-50. Same goes for the AH limitation. About the only thing that could be considered a real "issue" is the slower experience gains, but if anything it just encourages people to try out all the various stuff in the game besides questing (warzones, space missions, flashpoints).
Playing the game as a free player at 50 is a different story, but I think the whole point is that by then, if people have enjoyed the game, they'll start subscribing. It's not meant to be free forever, or with trivial restrcitions. If that was the case, why would anyone sub?
I wouldnt play 1-50 with the bar restriction.
That said i think the issue lies in how things are percived.
With Swtor's F2P system you don't have to worry about F2P players in your game for any longer than a few days. How are they going to make a profit off F2P? They won't. When its that restrictive, its not going to appeal to anyone. If the idea was to get people to pay a sub fee out of frustration, the plan will fail because if they were going to sub they already would have.
You locked the action bars? No bank what so ever? Reduced xp for leveling? The list is enormous. But there is no reason to complain really. Swtor isn't that good of a game anyways. Now they have the worst F2P option in the industry on top of it.
Agreed, just annoying someone into paying for a game they didn't play in the first place will not get them to fork over cash for it. The differences have to be much more subtle, stuff players would want, but not necessarily need for the game to function. Needed things like a bank and working action bars. I mean, f'ing with the ui and charging you to make it functional? Herpa Derpa. I see the darkness at the end of the tunnel. If they keep this crap up, they will be long gone before this time next year. Star Wars, couldn't have a better base to build a game around, so much lore to work with, and yet they manage to fudge the MMO's up every time.
This game is closer to games such as Diablo 3 than it is to a full MMO. Therefore price it similarly. You should pay once for the retail box and thereafter have access to the game without a monthly sub fee. There should be no stupid restrictions on quickbars, banks, hiding your head slot, xp gain, etc.
There should be a cash shop that sells standard items such as xp boosts, items with unique looks that are not more powerful than items that can be earned in game, vehicles with unique looks, new companions, and new playable species.
There could be periodic new content packs (flashpoints, operations, space missions, warzones, even whole new planets) that would require a one time unlock at modest prices.
That's a model that I can see being the only way this game can thrive for years to come. It's probably too radical a move for EA right now. But they could easily make the current F2P implementation much more agreeable to players but just getting rid of a few poorly chosen and angrily received restrictions:
give F2P players at least 4 quickbars
give F2P players the same Sprint as subscribers
allow F2P players to hide their headslot
allow F2P players to use color matching
allow F2P players to customize their companions
allow F2P players the same use of Quick Travel and Fleet Pass as subscribers
allow F2P players the same use of reviving where they died as subscribers
The problem I have with the game is the value of fun.. The game in it's complete form with everything unlocked is worth maybe $5 a month.. With EA's gimped F2P options it's worth even less.. Most everyone left because the game just isn't fun and had little to do with subscriptions.. However, Bioware isn't going to do a NGE revamp, so the game is what it is and will NEVER greatly improve.. The only viable option is to play with how much does it cost to play.. I personally dislike their F2P set up.. It really rubs me as just another poor money grab..
I still don't get this complaint. Even the dumb action bar restrictions don't get in the way of playing 1-50. None of the classes are restricted, only races. The credit limit isn't an issue until post-50. Same goes for the AH limitation. About the only thing that could be considered a real "issue" is the slower experience gains, but if anything it just encourages people to try out all the various stuff in the game besides questing (warzones, space missions, flashpoints).
Playing the game as a free player at 50 is a different story, but I think the whole point is that by then, if people have enjoyed the game, they'll start subscribing. It's not meant to be free forever, or with trivial restrcitions. If that was the case, why would anyone sub?
Originally posted by JRRNeiklot Silly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.
"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."
From the Oxford online dictionary:
1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations
4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)
remove something undesirable or restrictive from
adverb
1 without cost or payment
Verb
release from captivity, confinement, or slavery
release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement
SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria. Ergo, it is not free to play. I've played demos that were less restrictive. The game is completely unplayable in the current form.
Originally posted by JRRNeiklot Originally posted by asmkm22Originally posted by JRRNeiklotSilly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.
"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."From the Oxford online dictionary:
1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations
4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)
remove something undesirable or restrictive from adverb 1 without cost or payment Verbrelease from captivity, confinement, or slavery
release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement
SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria. Ergo, it is not free to play. I've played demos that were less restrictive. The game is completely unplayable in the current form.
The game is not unplayable in its current form. I just played it tonight. I also played for free. Which makes it free to play.
Would you like some cheese?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
As a subscriber for over a year now, here it is in a nutshell, SWTOR went to F2P way before they thought it would because the bottom dropped out of their subs due to lack of endgame content and the space battles which, you have to admit, are basically ships on rails. If this (F2P) fails, the game fails. Simple as that. The game was in trouble obviously, and once the F2P people are gone, so's the game, as EA takes their bottom line very seriously.
They would have been better off giving a F2P person full access to level 25 or so, then restricted them, giving them a taste for the game, and maybe a hook if they got into it. As it is now, they'll play till maaaybe 20 or so, then the grind with reduced XP will begin to tell. By then they'll also have their quickbars pretty much full and have to start cutting powers to make the more important ones fit. The locked forums is totally rediculous, or perhaps they were worried about the server shutting down from the enormous volume of posts in the support section. I feel bad for the F2P people as I sprint by, another restriction that I'm sure those players love. And how is a F2P person supposed to learn about crafting when the full skillset is disabled? 1 or 2 skills? They have to have an interest in the game to continue playing it. These are basics in any decent F2P model.
You want people to log in and have a GOOD time, not a BAD time. F2P people should have unrestricted access to WZs so the subbers can feel superior blasting the blue equipped freebies with their uber purples. This makes the subbers happy, which makes them spend more money on pink and purple lightsabers. Meanwhile, the F2P people are happy just being able to play in a WZ whether its win or lose.
The fanbois can scream the games all fine and jim dandy, but the real players, the ones here on earth, know that EA and Bioware better get their heads out of their (_o_) or their going to lose a game that should have been epic....
The Aion Truly Free experience combines the best parts of the Lineage 2: Goddess of Destruction™ Truly Free model with numerous enhancements.
Here are some of the key features of Aion Truly Free:
No subscription fee. Play for free!
No account restrictions. Visit any zone, chat in any channel, sell any amount of stuff on the trade broker—nothing is off limits!
Robust countermeasures to combat game abuse. We're dedicating a ton of resources to preventing account theft, botting, and real money trading.
No hassles. Create your account, download the game, and play!
No harassment. Don't worry, we won't hound you with constant offers or promotions.
A lot of great stuff we'll reveal more about leading up to launch!
Either remove the sub or give subs the same 500 CC a month plus unique title, mount, priority queue, special forum title, unique modable armor and weapons every month. And more fluff stuff.
Aions F2P model is very good. I can play the WHOLE GAME w/o paying a penny. There store offers boosts, mounts, costumes, weapon skins, housing stuff, and pets. People want to look different so they wouldnt hesitate to buy cosmetic stuff.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Originally posted by JRRNeiklotSilly us, thinking free to play meant free to play.
"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."
From the Oxford online dictionary:
1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations
4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)
remove something undesirable or restrictive from adverb 1 without cost or payment Verbrelease from captivity, confinement, or slavery
release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement
SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria. Ergo, it is not free to play. I've played demos that were less restrictive. The game is completely unplayable in the current form.
The game is not unplayable in its current form. I just played it tonight. I also played for free. Which makes it free to play.
Would you like some cheese?
did you play THE GAME or parts of the game for free?
I mean WoW's free to play too. I played for free tonight on my level 11 paladin.
Yah, "logic" of some people is really fail.
By that persons "logic" every game that ever released free trial or demo is free to play.
Take Dragon Age 2 demo as an example: you get 1 fight for free. Now he can claim the game is "free 2 play" because he played it yesterday for free.
Fail is fail, SWTOR IS NOT F2P, its a crappy generic free trial.
I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.
You see, I don't care that much about the money involved. If I thought I'd play TOR for over 5 hours a month, I'd sub. However, I don't think so and TOR's F2P is simply not worth my time. It's like TOR P2P, except more annoying. A more annoying version of a mediocre game is just bad and I don't want to play a bad game when I can play a good game like GW2 or Firefall or TSW.
A restrictive product has to be very good for people to play it. TOR is not.
Hopefully for the sake of the game they ease up on the restrictions. Enjoying seeing a lot of people playing though and general chat is also like it was at the launch of the game.
I think the restrictions to the multiplayer parts is a huge misstake, it was already the weakest part of the game and further restrictions is really dangerous.
The reason we play MMOs (at least most of us) is to play with other people, and TOR needs more multiplayer content, not to have fewer players play what they already have.
If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.
not sure which way would shut down Swtor faster, this way or keeping the subscription only.
a good example here. PWE has many full f2p mmos, and still they make more money on a single game than swtor ever did since launch. And dont say p2w because taht only affects PvPers and the majority are PvEers who also buy fluff only. I never payed more than perhaps $80 bucks in a couple years of fun and challenging gameplay as a PvEer.
EAWARE needs to be smarter with their Freemium model. Right now they almost look like if they wanted retribution with that model... [resub, or have nightmares with our cash shop]
the point is, with a decent model and respect for the playerbase that is willing to support them via sub or cash shop, the game will florish. some freemiums right now have some annoying restrictions but not as insulting as Swtors one for many players
its my opinion only, and a comment based on my experience with some freemiums and f2p
For me, i only have 4 problems with their cash shop:
1) make the 2 character creation limit server specific, not account wide.
2) take away every every form of instanced pvp from my game, but let me do dungeons and raids freely.
3) raise the ridiculous credit cap, which is too low and cant even legacy stuff
4) gimmie my hotbars.
im ok with the rest of the unlocks and i would pay to unlock them (IF those 4 i mentioned ever get addressed or adjusted to reflect less greed and more care towars both their game and players)....otherwise ill just move to the next game.
Hey I really like this game and really want to play it. I just don't think spending any kind of money on something I enjoy for hours, days, weeks, or even months that hundreds of people spent years working on is a good idea. I prefer free to play games for this reason.
Yes I'm sarcastic and yes people do think like that.
Well, Guild Wars 2 manages it.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.
It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax.
Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.
Comments
And?
You have a product that noone wants to pay for (EAs own words). It doesnt matter how much it had cost you to produce or how long, its not matter of "is 15$ as an absolute amount large or small sum of money" , only thing that matters is do people see value for their money, and they should consider THAT before launch.
If you offer (advertise) something for free, and its far form free dont sulk when you get the beating, because its your own fault.
I would charge people 50 cents everytime they use space bar to skip the endless bable from the NPCs in quest.
show me the money.
I logged in on my lvl 40 to check out the hype and maybe play a little.
As it turned out i only had 2 quick bars so i logged off in disgust. Just to much work for the hassle. Funny thing is that i have no problem paying a sub either, but annoyed people dont like spending money.
Simply put, its about reeling people in, and not annoying them.
"Free to play" is not the same as "Everything for nothing."
You make me like charity
I still don't get this complaint. Even the dumb action bar restrictions don't get in the way of playing 1-50. None of the classes are restricted, only races. The credit limit isn't an issue until post-50. Same goes for the AH limitation. About the only thing that could be considered a real "issue" is the slower experience gains, but if anything it just encourages people to try out all the various stuff in the game besides questing (warzones, space missions, flashpoints).
Playing the game as a free player at 50 is a different story, but I think the whole point is that by then, if people have enjoyed the game, they'll start subscribing. It's not meant to be free forever, or with trivial restrcitions. If that was the case, why would anyone sub?
You make me like charity
I wouldnt play 1-50 with the bar restriction.
That said i think the issue lies in how things are percived.
Its just alot of annoying things.
Agreed, just annoying someone into paying for a game they didn't play in the first place will not get them to fork over cash for it. The differences have to be much more subtle, stuff players would want, but not necessarily need for the game to function. Needed things like a bank and working action bars. I mean, f'ing with the ui and charging you to make it functional? Herpa Derpa. I see the darkness at the end of the tunnel. If they keep this crap up, they will be long gone before this time next year. Star Wars, couldn't have a better base to build a game around, so much lore to work with, and yet they manage to fudge the MMO's up every time.
_____________________
GenLock
This game is closer to games such as Diablo 3 than it is to a full MMO. Therefore price it similarly. You should pay once for the retail box and thereafter have access to the game without a monthly sub fee. There should be no stupid restrictions on quickbars, banks, hiding your head slot, xp gain, etc.
There should be a cash shop that sells standard items such as xp boosts, items with unique looks that are not more powerful than items that can be earned in game, vehicles with unique looks, new companions, and new playable species.
There could be periodic new content packs (flashpoints, operations, space missions, warzones, even whole new planets) that would require a one time unlock at modest prices.
That's a model that I can see being the only way this game can thrive for years to come. It's probably too radical a move for EA right now. But they could easily make the current F2P implementation much more agreeable to players but just getting rid of a few poorly chosen and angrily received restrictions:
DAOC Live (inactive): R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R6 Healer
So, in short its not free.
What part of that you dont understand.
Ahnog
Hokey religions are no replacement for a good blaster at your side.
From the Oxford online dictionary:
1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations
4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)
remove something undesirable or restrictive from
adverb
1 without cost or payment
Verb
release from captivity, confinement, or slavery
release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement
SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria. Ergo, it is not free to play. I've played demos that were less restrictive. The game is completely unplayable in the current form.
From the Oxford online dictionary:
1 not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
3 not subject to or constrained by engagements or obligations
4 [predic.] (free of/from) not subject to or affected by (a specified thing, typically an undesirable one)
remove something undesirable or restrictive from adverb 1 without cost or payment Verbrelease from captivity, confinement, or slavery
release from physical obstruction, restraint, or entanglement
SWTOR meets none of the abbove criteria. Ergo, it is not free to play. I've played demos that were less restrictive. The game is completely unplayable in the current form.
The game is not unplayable in its current form. I just played it tonight. I also played for free. Which makes it free to play.
Would you like some cheese?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
As a subscriber for over a year now, here it is in a nutshell, SWTOR went to F2P way before they thought it would because the bottom dropped out of their subs due to lack of endgame content and the space battles which, you have to admit, are basically ships on rails. If this (F2P) fails, the game fails. Simple as that. The game was in trouble obviously, and once the F2P people are gone, so's the game, as EA takes their bottom line very seriously.
They would have been better off giving a F2P person full access to level 25 or so, then restricted them, giving them a taste for the game, and maybe a hook if they got into it. As it is now, they'll play till maaaybe 20 or so, then the grind with reduced XP will begin to tell. By then they'll also have their quickbars pretty much full and have to start cutting powers to make the more important ones fit. The locked forums is totally rediculous, or perhaps they were worried about the server shutting down from the enormous volume of posts in the support section. I feel bad for the F2P people as I sprint by, another restriction that I'm sure those players love. And how is a F2P person supposed to learn about crafting when the full skillset is disabled? 1 or 2 skills? They have to have an interest in the game to continue playing it. These are basics in any decent F2P model.
You want people to log in and have a GOOD time, not a BAD time. F2P people should have unrestricted access to WZs so the subbers can feel superior blasting the blue equipped freebies with their uber purples. This makes the subbers happy, which makes them spend more money on pink and purple lightsabers. Meanwhile, the F2P people are happy just being able to play in a WZ whether its win or lose.
The fanbois can scream the games all fine and jim dandy, but the real players, the ones here on earth, know that EA and Bioware better get their heads out of their (_o_) or their going to lose a game that should have been epic....
I would do it exactly how aion did it.
What are the benefits of Truly Free?
The Aion Truly Free experience combines the best parts of the
Lineage 2: Goddess of Destruction™ Truly Free model with numerous enhancements.
Here are some of the key features of Aion Truly Free:
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Yah, "logic" of some people is really fail.
By that persons "logic" every game that ever released free trial or demo is free to play.
Take Dragon Age 2 demo as an example: you get 1 fight for free. Now he can claim the game is "free 2 play" because he played it yesterday for free.
Fail is fail, SWTOR IS NOT F2P, its a crappy generic free trial.
You see, I don't care that much about the money involved. If I thought I'd play TOR for over 5 hours a month, I'd sub. However, I don't think so and TOR's F2P is simply not worth my time. It's like TOR P2P, except more annoying. A more annoying version of a mediocre game is just bad and I don't want to play a bad game when I can play a good game like GW2 or Firefall or TSW.
A restrictive product has to be very good for people to play it. TOR is not.
I think the restrictions to the multiplayer parts is a huge misstake, it was already the weakest part of the game and further restrictions is really dangerous.
The reason we play MMOs (at least most of us) is to play with other people, and TOR needs more multiplayer content, not to have fewer players play what they already have.
not sure which way would shut down Swtor faster, this way or keeping the subscription only.
a good example here. PWE has many full f2p mmos, and still they make more money on a single game than swtor ever did since launch. And dont say p2w because taht only affects PvPers and the majority are PvEers who also buy fluff only. I never payed more than perhaps $80 bucks in a couple years of fun and challenging gameplay as a PvEer.
EAWARE needs to be smarter with their Freemium model. Right now they almost look like if they wanted retribution with that model... [resub, or have nightmares with our cash shop]
the point is, with a decent model and respect for the playerbase that is willing to support them via sub or cash shop, the game will florish. some freemiums right now have some annoying restrictions but not as insulting as Swtors one for many players
its my opinion only, and a comment based on my experience with some freemiums and f2p
For me, i only have 4 problems with their cash shop:
1) make the 2 character creation limit server specific, not account wide.
2) take away every every form of instanced pvp from my game, but let me do dungeons and raids freely.
3) raise the ridiculous credit cap, which is too low and cant even legacy stuff
4) gimmie my hotbars.
im ok with the rest of the unlocks and i would pay to unlock them (IF those 4 i mentioned ever get addressed or adjusted to reflect less greed and more care towars both their game and players)....otherwise ill just move to the next game.
Well, Guild Wars 2 manages it.
"When people don't know much about something, they tend to fill in the blanks the way they want them to be filled in. They are almost always disappointed." - Will Wright
Ya GW2 manages it after you spent 60 bucks on the box, and 60 more for every add-on to come, SWtoR can be played without spending money if someone choses to play it that way, especially if the play casually.
It amazes me how many ppl complain if they do not get everything for free. I personally gave the game a try and found my experiance to be worthy of subbing, whats 15 bucks a month. I can play for 4 months and still not have spent as much as someone that bought GW2 when you add in the tax.
Right now I enjoy SWtoR, it might be next week or next month, maybe even a year or 3 from now, but when I no longer enjoy the game I will stop paying and playing and the world will still go on. Some of you ppl need to get over yourselfs, lifes to short to spend even a minute being bitter and negative.
Godz of War I call Thee