The whole point for them to make swtor F2P so restrictive is that EA wants this game to die. With them doing this, it will kill the game off sooner and they can get out of the money they owe for license's and what not.
This way they do not have to wait 5 years for it to die when they can kill it off in less than 1 year and not have to deal with everything that has to do with this lump of $@%# they made.
Originally posted by Dkompoze You cant cry over any kind of FTP in any game. I mean you could just pay the sub and quit being cheap. Then your tears would be moot. Just saying.
Agreed, most F2P are just glorified trials to see if you like the game, Aion is prob the most fair F2P but most of the rest will cost you money especially if you are hard core. F2P has been around for a long time now, most people seem to be clueless, I guess it is just a good excuse for some people to complain
This is either a lie, or you have not played many F2P games.
I played Runes of Magic from level 0 to cap without paying a dime. I could then carry on playing without having to spend a dime. Granted, my experience would have been enhanced - and in some respects made easier - by paying for certain components every now and then, but... I didn't have to, so I didn't.
In Star Trek Online, I played from level 0 to cap without spending a penny. I then spent £50 ($75) on the game, and haven't spent a penny since. Again, my experience would certainly be enhanced by DOFF spam, as well as buying more ships... but I don't have to, and I can still enjoy the game. More importantly... I enjoy the game thoroughly and it doesn't cost me as much as a sub game.
It's dishonest to try to misconstrue the model by saying that "most f2p games are just glorified trials" because this isn't true. SWTOR F2P is a glorified trial, but it is the exception... and certainly not the rule. "MOST" free to play games actually have a reasonable "FREE" way of playing the game; that's the entire point of the model.
I hope you now appreciate the irony of you calling other people "clueless".
My, My you sound a bit clueless today (no offense). The fact that i seem to hit a nerve with you means you are taking it personally, which means I am probably right, and you feel the need to defend yourself because who wants to be known as clueless.
Now that we have clueless out of the way, let us talk about Runes of Magic. I could be wrong but was not Runes a F2P game to begin with? I have been to the Runes forums and many, many people would disagree with you and outright call the game P2W. I did play the game for a few hours and between the sophomoric graphics and the outright rip off of WOW I can see why they are a F2P-BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD PLAY THE GAME OTHERWISE.
This is a post from the STO forums
"Vesta ships pack.= Overpriced. All projects,personal,starbase and embassy.=Extremely Expensive. Cost of projects then buying items after projects are done. Totally not fair. The dilithium allowances are far too small,and we are forced to buy it,to get anywhere in this game.This is despite STO being a free game,so we are told. Free game???? I think not. It seems to me that the costs involved are getting worse,and it does not matter if a fleet is big or small. The prices generally are far too high. I hope that Dan Stahl and Mr Branflakes themselves see this,and i hope they realise,that STO will lose people,as they will be priced out of this game.
This whole fleet idea was a big mistake,sadly there are many in fleets who don't bother contributing,and they sit back and do nothing most of the time,while others end up carrying them so to speak. Personally if it were ever possible,i would run a fleet with just myself and duty officers as fleet staff. end result is more efficient progress and no arguements with other players in this game,about who contributes what and general costs etc"
Now to be fair I think this person was going overrboard but as you can see STO is not "free to play" either. I did say most games were glorified trials, not all, Aion and you could make a case for fallen earth being a "better" F2P model. As I said in another post, the experience penalty in TOR is unfair as it could throw off the balance of the game but the rest is typical F2P bs. What these companies should really call it is Piecemeal to play because most of these games are simply not free to play!
Originally posted by Dkompoze You cant cry over any kind of FTP in any game. I mean you could just pay the sub and quit being cheap. Then your tears would be moot. Just saying.
Agreed, most F2P are just glorified trials to see if you like the game, Aion is prob the most fair F2P but most of the rest will cost you money especially if you are hard core. F2P has been around for a long time now, most people seem to be clueless, I guess it is just a good excuse for some people to complain
This is either a lie, or you have not played many F2P games.
I played Runes of Magic from level 0 to cap without paying a dime. I could then carry on playing without having to spend a dime. Granted, my experience would have been enhanced - and in some respects made easier - by paying for certain components every now and then, but... I didn't have to, so I didn't.
In Star Trek Online, I played from level 0 to cap without spending a penny. I then spent £50 ($75) on the game, and haven't spent a penny since. Again, my experience would certainly be enhanced by DOFF spam, as well as buying more ships... but I don't have to, and I can still enjoy the game. More importantly... I enjoy the game thoroughly and it doesn't cost me as much as a sub game.
It's dishonest to try to misconstrue the model by saying that "most f2p games are just glorified trials" because this isn't true. SWTOR F2P is a glorified trial, but it is the exception... and certainly not the rule. "MOST" free to play games actually have a reasonable "FREE" way of playing the game; that's the entire point of the model.
I hope you now appreciate the irony of you calling other people "clueless".
My, My you sound a bit clueless today (no offense). The fact that i seem to hit a nerve with you means you are taking it personally, which means I am probably right, and you feel the need to defend yourself because who wants to be known as clueless.
Now that we have clueless out of the way, let us talk about Runes of Magic. I could be wrong but was not Runes a F2P game to begin with? I have been to the Runes forums and many, many people would disagree with you and outright call the game P2W. I did play the game for a few hours and between the sophomoric graphics and the outright rip off of WOW I can see why they are a F2P-BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD PLAY THE GAME OTHERWISE.
This is a post from the STO forums
"Vesta ships pack.= Overpriced. All projects,personal,starbase and embassy.=Extremely Expensive. Cost of projects then buying items after projects are done. Totally not fair. The dilithium allowances are far too small,and we are forced to buy it,to get anywhere in this game.This is despite STO being a free game,so we are told. Free game???? I think not. It seems to me that the costs involved are getting worse,and it does not matter if a fleet is big or small. The prices generally are far too high. I hope that Dan Stahl and Mr Branflakes themselves see this,and i hope they realise,that STO will lose people,as they will be priced out of this game.
This whole fleet idea was a big mistake,sadly there are many in fleets who don't bother contributing,and they sit back and do nothing most of the time,while others end up carrying them so to speak. Personally if it were ever possible,i would run a fleet with just myself and duty officers as fleet staff. end result is more efficient progress and no arguements with other players in this game,about who contributes what and general costs etc"
Now to be fair I think this person was going overrboard but as you can see STO is not "free to play" either. I did say most games were glorified trials, not all, Aion and you could make a case for fallen earth being a "better" F2P model. As I said in another post, the experience penalty in TOR is unfair as it could throw off the balance of the game but the rest is typical F2P bs. What these companies should really call it is Piecemeal to play because most of these games are simply not free to play!
STO IS F2P. You can play through all of the content, and get access to all of the items the game has to offer (including the items on the cash store, and the items that are provided through personal and fleet projects) FOR FREE! ;D
The Fleet Projects system - with starbases, etc - is dependant on you having a good fleet. It's no different to having to have a good raid group to clear content in WoW. If you don't have a good raid group, you don't clear the content. What do you do in that situation? YOU FIND ANOTHER RAID GROUP! ;D The same state of affairs exists in STO. If your fleet isn't progressing through said projects with any haste, if people aren't contributing, YOU FIND ANOTHER FLEET ;D
The fleet I am in, for example, GIVES SHIPS AWAY to people who've been in for more than 3 months! These are ships from the cash shop, ships that would usually cost $40+! For FREE! Why? Because the people in the fleet are working together often enough that we're running at a huge surplus, and can afford to reward our members for their efforts.
Originally posted by mikahr Fail is fail, SWTOR IS NOT F2P, its a crappy generic free trial.
I don't know about you, but I can play the game for free from 1-50 (I think) and have a complete storyline experience.
Are you unable to play the game because there are only 2 quickbars? Are you unable to play the game because your ugly helmet cannot be hidden? Are you unable to play the game because your bank slots are full? Are you unable to play the game because your preferred race is not one of the free ones? I am not saying "unplayable for you", I am saying "unplayable for free." I have a feeling that you could still log in and play even with these restrictions. It may not be "enjoyable", which is the real point here, but it is playable for free. Just because the game may not have for free what *you* expect for free does not mean the game is not free to play. You can still play the game for free.
EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. And they have hosed those players who subscribed for ANY amount time not prior to their going F2P. How are those collector's editions doing now for the F2P people?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by mikahr Fail is fail, SWTOR IS NOT F2P, its a crappy generic free trial.
I don't know about you, but I can play the game for free from 1-50 (I think) and have a complete storyline experience.
Are you unable to play the game because there are only 2 quickbars? Are you unable to play the game because your ugly helmet cannot be hidden? Are you unable to play the game because your bank slots are full? Are you unable to play the game because your preferred race is not one of the free ones? I am not saying "unplayable for you", I am saying "unplayable for free." I have a feeling that you could still log in and play even with these restrictions. It may not be "enjoyable", which is the real point here, but it is playable for free. Just because the game may not have for free what *you* expect for free does not mean the game is not free to play. You can still play the game for free.
EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. And they have hosed those players who subscribed for ANY amount time not prior to their going F2P. How are those collector's editions doing now for the F2P people?
Maybe not "unable", but who the hell wants to play a game that restricts you so much that the fun is gone, and everything just annoys you?
Iirc, SOE (Smed?) said something similar to this:
If a F2P model is too restrictive, it will not even attract many players, and those who checks it out, will quickly leave. And if you cannot attract players, and make them stay, they surely won't pay anything.
This is why this game will fail a second time, because as you said: EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. This is one of the most hated F2P models in history, proven by the discussions on both this site and countless other forums, and EA / BW will feel the consequences, I'm sure of it.
Btw, there are things you can NOT do in the free version, so yes, "unplayble for free" is partially correct. If you prefer some contents over other, that is either impossible or very restricted for free players.
Originally posted by Netspook Originally posted by AlBQuirkyOriginally posted by mikahrFail is fail, SWTOR IS NOT F2P, its a crappy generic free trial.
I don't know about you, but I can play the game for free from 1-50 (I think) and have a complete storyline experience.Are you unable to play the game because there are only 2 quickbars? Are you unable to play the game because your ugly helmet cannot be hidden? Are you unable to play the game because your bank slots are full? Are you unable to play the game because your preferred race is not one of the free ones? I am not saying "unplayable for you", I am saying "unplayable for free." I have a feeling that you could still log in and play even with these restrictions. It may not be "enjoyable", which is the real point here, but it is playable for free. Just because the game may not have for free what *you* expect for free does not mean the game is not free to play. You can still play the game for free.EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. And they have hosed those players who subscribed for ANY amount time not prior to their going F2P. How are those collector's editions doing now for the F2P people?
Maybe not "unable", but who the hell wants to play a game that restricts you so much that the fun is gone, and everything just annoys you?
Iirc, SOE (Smed?) said something similar to this:
If a F2P model is too restrictive, it will not even attract many players, and those who checks it out, will quickly leave. And if you cannot attract players, and make them stay, they surely won't pay anything.
This is why this game will fail a second time, because as you said: EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. This is one of the most hated F2P models in history, proven by the discussions on both this site and countless other forums, and EA / BW will feel the consequences, I'm sure of it.
Btw, there are things you can NOT do in the free version, so yes, "unplayble for free" is partially correct. If you prefer some contents over other, that is either impossible or very restricted for free players.
Preferring the not free content over the free content, but expecting the free content means you don't understand what F2P means. It just means you can play some part of the game for free, and that there are other parts of the game that the developer will charge you money to play. That's what it's always meant. Any game that is F2P does the same thing. Not the same way of course, but it's the same process.
Others have said this, and I'll echo it. The restrictions placed on free and preferred players do not stop them from playing the game. Nearly all of the leveling experience is available to the player, and all of the story experience is open to the player.
Others have said this, and I'll echo it (part deux). The F2P restrictions that EA chose are annoying. They make a certain kind of mechanical sense, as the stuff that's restricted doesn't prevent the free and premium players from experiencing the available content. That doesn't mean those restrictions make the game feel fun. It doesn't mean the choices they made are a good idea either.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
It was launched and it ramped up in the first month or so and then dropped.
No it wasn't.... you weren't reading the chart right.
Those are not month scales. They are year scales mate.
The game was out in 2003, the subscribership didn't significantly drop until end of 2004.passed, between 2003 and end of 2004 is was stagnating at around 300k. Also you forgot to correlate the big dips with the launch of WoW as well (end of 2004/start of 2005).
Lastly, 300k subs back in 2003 was not "terrible". 300k sub for an mmo back in 2003 is massive, considering how many people in the world at the time has a proper gaming rig and as well as a proper DSL to play an MMO.
When WoW first launched back in 2004/start of 2005 it didn't have 1 million subscribers right of the bat. It took a long time, the death of other mmos and the prevalence of ADSL connections outside of USA to build it up.
Originally posted by Chieftan I'd say just copy GW2's model but that game's sinking like a turd. NVM!
SWTOR can't follow GW2's model.
GW2 was designed as B2P getting its revenue - fundamentally - from box sales; like GW1; the cash shop is icing on the cake. And because there was never any plan to have a subscription people were not put off buying it and will continue to buy it going forward.
Well GW2's sales rank on Amazon's PC games chart is #32 right now. I hope there's ALOT of icing on that cake.
F2P is supposed to be a gateway , a way to lure you into playing . When its so frustrating to play who will stay ? Bags , money , races is acceptable , also high end items . I would have gone with an xp penalty as well , light at low lvls , high as you approach end lvl . That would work well to fill all lvl ranges , and make it easy for my subscribers to get flashpoint groups . But UI and run restrictions ? These turn people away before they get to know the game , or more importantly before they come back to the game . Also since this is an easy / content consumption game , I would have to throw in LOTS of content ... with appropriate rewards , lore related , flashy , introduce companion fights , also with appropriate rewards and a quest line , maybe an epic line for an epic reward , like an HK droid companion . Would consider spaceship customisation/items , more cosmetic , but some utility too . A new series of solo flashpoints , short mostly , to allow players with little time to experience epic content . Its all about the fun when playing , you make it fun , people will play it . Grinds suck .
It was launched and it ramped up in the first month or so and then dropped.
No it wasn't.... you weren't reading the chart right.
Those are not month scales. They are year scales mate.
The game was out in 2003, the subscribership didn't significantly drop until end of 2004.passed, between 2003 and end of 2004 is was stagnating at around 300k. Also you forgot to correlate the big dips with the launch of WoW as well (end of 2004/start of 2005).
Lastly, 300k subs back in 2003 was not "terrible". 300k sub for an mmo back in 2003 is massive, considering how many people in the world at the time has a proper gaming rig and as well as a proper DSL to play an MMO.
When WoW first launched back in 2004/start of 2005 it didn't have 1 million subscribers right of the bat. It took a long time, the death of other mmos and the prevalence of ADSL connections outside of USA to build it up.
But also WoW began dying around the time Activision got involved (2009), when WoW became "dumbed" down and more focused on casuals. Cash shops went in, game had less atmosphere, customers went down.
Throwing that in because I think it's relevent to what you said. SWTOR didn't copy the "good" model" from WoW that was increasing subscribers. They copied the "bad" model, which drove gamers away.
Originally posted by stefanakisgr F2P is supposed to be a gateway , a way to lure you into playing . When its so frustrating to play who will stay ? Bags , money , races is acceptable , also high end items . I would have gone with an xp penalty as well , light at low lvls , high as you approach end lvl . That would work well to fill all lvl ranges , and make it easy for my subscribers to get flashpoint groups . But UI and run restrictions ? These turn people away before they get to know the game , or more importantly before they come back to the game .
It is very difficult to say what lure or turn people off. Your individual personal bias or preference might be vastly different from average or majority of players.
They can always adjust the restrictions and it is better to start with something more strict and loosen it later than the other way round.
It is very difficult to say what lure or turn people off. Your individual personal bias or preference might be vastly different from average or majority of players.
They can always adjust the restrictions and it is better to start with something more strict and loosen it later than the other way round.
Its not very difficult with SWTOR. Its very easy.
And you saying that - its like saying "oh, but it doesnt matter that it SUCKS NOW, they can always fix it AFTER LAUNCH"
Yeah, well, that turned up nicely rofl they "fixed" it alright
They miss and miss and miss....and all those misses will cost them dearly in the end.
Originally posted by stefanakisgr F2P is supposed to be a gateway , a way to lure you into playing . When its so frustrating to play who will stay ? Bags , money , races is acceptable , also high end items . I would have gone with an xp penalty as well , light at low lvls , high as you approach end lvl . That would work well to fill all lvl ranges , and make it easy for my subscribers to get flashpoint groups . But UI and run restrictions ? These turn people away before they get to know the game , or more importantly before they come back to the game .
It is very difficult to say what lure or turn people off. Your individual personal bias or preference might be vastly different from average or majority of players.
They can always adjust the restrictions and it is better to start with something more strict and loosen it later than the other way round.
That's like saying you can always start with a crappy game and have it get better .. then people will love it.
Or .. you can have a hugely restrictive game that didn't get much appeal .. then you loosen the limits, and people will love it.
No.
You get a single shot with a games release or re-release when it comes to publicity. If you tinker with it later, you might get something nice, but it won't be worthy of a new press release and everything bad which was said has already stuck in everyones mind.
EA tinkered with the SWTOR F2P model after it was released.
At that point the publicity is limited to fan sites. EA fubared their F2P model and that is how it will be remembered for 99% of potential gamers. Whether you or I know about the tweaks won't affect much with SWTOR. We are the small % that actually blog about games.
They are increasing the quickslot bars for preferred players next week but I'm wondering if they haven't already alienated a good portion of the returning players.
One thing I do disagree about people not rechecking games. You see it here all the time people asking if it is worth going back to an older game and whether it has improved. I hate it when people make these generalized statements about how they think a majority of players will behave. What possible evidence do you have of how people react aside from your own prejudiced views ?
I like the game btw so what I am one of those idiots in your book. Many people I say this from the general chat in SWTOR love the game and they like the story just because you don't does not make it a crappy game.
Originally posted by KarteliThat's like saying you can always start with a crappy game and have it get better .. then people will love it.
As I already pointed out, a "crappy game" is very subjective term.
According to this site and many users here, WoW and alike are "crappy games", yet they are played by millions making enough money to support their further development.
Every business model is and always be tinkered later, when some objective data are available.
First off, if it would have been up to me, the game wouldn't have had to go F2P in the first place. I would have created an actual MMO that people would have paid and stayed for. I would have actually listened to the Beta testers, weekend testers and the actual players after launch to correct the deficiences that were present and the ones that weren't foreseen after launch.
It amazes me that people truly think it is hard to correct issues and to take in and implement feedback. But I guess it's like someone said, common sense really isn't that common.
They could have started by implementing a free / silver / gold type of member. With free members being promoted to silver once they have made a purchase and gold members demoted to that if they stop subscribing, but allowing them to keep on to the content they unlocked.
There are plenty of decent examples out there: lotro, ddo, aion, ...
One of the other requirements would be to actually create new content to sell, instead of pretty much only locking down parts of your game unless you pay, pissing people off.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
They could have started by implementing a free / silver / gold type of member. With free members being promoted to silver once they have made a purchase and gold members demoted to that if they stop subscribing, but allowing them to keep on to the content they unlocked.
There are plenty of decent examples out there: lotro, ddo, aion, ...
Thats why theres good stuff and bad stuff. SWTORs F2P goes to bad bin.
One of the other requirements would be to actually create new content to sell, instead of pretty much only locking down parts of your game unless you pay, pissing people off.
Ahhh, but thats the problem, their snail paced content releases wouldnt be enough, so they resorted to stuff like quickbars and hide helmet.
TBH if they actually had decent content releases they wouldnt fail so hard to have to go F2P in the first place.
6 months for WZ? 6 month for OP? 6 months for FP? 6 months for few daily quests? And thats pretty muc devoid of any story/voiced over stuff so people cant blame story/voiceovers this time around.
First off, if it would have been up to me, the game wouldn't have had to go F2P in the first place. I would have created an actual MMO that people would have paid and stayed for. I would have actually listened to the Beta testers, weekend testers and the actual players after launch to correct the deficiences that were present and the ones that weren't foreseen after launch.
It amazes me that people truly think it is hard to correct issues and to take in and implement feedback. But I guess it's like someone said, common sense really isn't that common.
There's a thing obviously STOR managers lacked is: common sense.
Sadly they had really great suggestion over the years on the forums and well some designers new better but it was them against the ones in power during a global economy crisis...
Comments
The whole point for them to make swtor F2P so restrictive is that EA wants this game to die. With them doing this, it will kill the game off sooner and they can get out of the money they owe for license's and what not.
This way they do not have to wait 5 years for it to die when they can kill it off in less than 1 year and not have to deal with everything that has to do with this lump of $@%# they made.
My, My you sound a bit clueless today (no offense). The fact that i seem to hit a nerve with you means you are taking it personally, which means I am probably right, and you feel the need to defend yourself because who wants to be known as clueless.
Now that we have clueless out of the way, let us talk about Runes of Magic. I could be wrong but was not Runes a F2P game to begin with? I have been to the Runes forums and many, many people would disagree with you and outright call the game P2W. I did play the game for a few hours and between the sophomoric graphics and the outright rip off of WOW I can see why they are a F2P-BECAUSE NO ONE WOULD PLAY THE GAME OTHERWISE.
This is a post from the STO forums
"Vesta ships pack.= Overpriced.
All projects,personal,starbase and embassy.=Extremely Expensive.
Cost of projects then buying items after projects are done. Totally not fair.
The dilithium allowances are far too small,and we are forced to buy it,to get anywhere in this game.This is despite STO being a free game,so we are told.
Free game???? I think not.
It seems to me that the costs involved are getting worse,and it does not matter if a fleet is big or small. The prices generally are far too high.
I hope that Dan Stahl and Mr Branflakes themselves see this,and i hope they realise,that STO will lose people,as they will be priced out of this game.
This whole fleet idea was a big mistake,sadly there are many in fleets who don't bother contributing,and they sit back and do nothing most of the time,while others end up carrying them so to speak.
Personally if it were ever possible,i would run a fleet with just myself and duty officers as fleet staff. end result is more efficient progress and no arguements with other players in this game,about who contributes what and general costs etc"
Now to be fair I think this person was going overrboard but as you can see STO is not "free to play" either. I did say most games were glorified trials, not all, Aion and you could make a case for fallen earth being a "better" F2P model. As I said in another post, the experience penalty in TOR is unfair as it could throw off the balance of the game but the rest is typical F2P bs. What these companies should really call it is Piecemeal to play because most of these games are simply not free to play!
STO IS F2P. You can play through all of the content, and get access to all of the items the game has to offer (including the items on the cash store, and the items that are provided through personal and fleet projects) FOR FREE! ;D
The Fleet Projects system - with starbases, etc - is dependant on you having a good fleet. It's no different to having to have a good raid group to clear content in WoW. If you don't have a good raid group, you don't clear the content. What do you do in that situation? YOU FIND ANOTHER RAID GROUP! ;D The same state of affairs exists in STO. If your fleet isn't progressing through said projects with any haste, if people aren't contributing, YOU FIND ANOTHER FLEET ;D
The fleet I am in, for example, GIVES SHIPS AWAY to people who've been in for more than 3 months! These are ships from the cash shop, ships that would usually cost $40+! For FREE! Why? Because the people in the fleet are working together often enough that we're running at a huge surplus, and can afford to reward our members for their efforts.
Same way they managed with GW1? With box sales and expansion sales?
Are you unable to play the game because there are only 2 quickbars? Are you unable to play the game because your ugly helmet cannot be hidden? Are you unable to play the game because your bank slots are full? Are you unable to play the game because your preferred race is not one of the free ones? I am not saying "unplayable for you", I am saying "unplayable for free." I have a feeling that you could still log in and play even with these restrictions. It may not be "enjoyable", which is the real point here, but it is playable for free. Just because the game may not have for free what *you* expect for free does not mean the game is not free to play. You can still play the game for free.
EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. And they have hosed those players who subscribed for ANY amount time not prior to their going F2P. How are those collector's editions doing now for the F2P people?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Maybe not "unable", but who the hell wants to play a game that restricts you so much that the fun is gone, and everything just annoys you?
Iirc, SOE (Smed?) said something similar to this:
If a F2P model is too restrictive, it will not even attract many players, and those who checks it out, will quickly leave. And if you cannot attract players, and make them stay, they surely won't pay anything.
This is why this game will fail a second time, because as you said: EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. This is one of the most hated F2P models in history, proven by the discussions on both this site and countless other forums, and EA / BW will feel the consequences, I'm sure of it.
Btw, there are things you can NOT do in the free version, so yes, "unplayble for free" is partially correct. If you prefer some contents over other, that is either impossible or very restricted for free players.
Maybe not "unable", but who the hell wants to play a game that restricts you so much that the fun is gone, and everything just annoys you?
Iirc, SOE (Smed?) said something similar to this:
If a F2P model is too restrictive, it will not even attract many players, and those who checks it out, will quickly leave. And if you cannot attract players, and make them stay, they surely won't pay anything.
This is why this game will fail a second time, because as you said: EA just does not make the game enjoyable to play for free. This is one of the most hated F2P models in history, proven by the discussions on both this site and countless other forums, and EA / BW will feel the consequences, I'm sure of it.
Btw, there are things you can NOT do in the free version, so yes, "unplayble for free" is partially correct. If you prefer some contents over other, that is either impossible or very restricted for free players.
Preferring the not free content over the free content, but expecting the free content means you don't understand what F2P means. It just means you can play some part of the game for free, and that there are other parts of the game that the developer will charge you money to play. That's what it's always meant. Any game that is F2P does the same thing. Not the same way of course, but it's the same process.
Others have said this, and I'll echo it. The restrictions placed on free and preferred players do not stop them from playing the game. Nearly all of the leveling experience is available to the player, and all of the story experience is open to the player.
Others have said this, and I'll echo it (part deux). The F2P restrictions that EA chose are annoying. They make a certain kind of mechanical sense, as the stuff that's restricted doesn't prevent the free and premium players from experiencing the available content. That doesn't mean those restrictions make the game feel fun. It doesn't mean the choices they made are a good idea either.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No it wasn't.... you weren't reading the chart right.
Those are not month scales. They are year scales mate.
The game was out in 2003, the subscribership didn't significantly drop until end of 2004.passed, between 2003 and end of 2004 is was stagnating at around 300k. Also you forgot to correlate the big dips with the launch of WoW as well (end of 2004/start of 2005).
Lastly, 300k subs back in 2003 was not "terrible". 300k sub for an mmo back in 2003 is massive, considering how many people in the world at the time has a proper gaming rig and as well as a proper DSL to play an MMO.
When WoW first launched back in 2004/start of 2005 it didn't have 1 million subscribers right of the bat. It took a long time, the death of other mmos and the prevalence of ADSL connections outside of USA to build it up.
Well GW2's sales rank on Amazon's PC games chart is #32 right now. I hope there's ALOT of icing on that cake.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
But also WoW began dying around the time Activision got involved (2009), when WoW became "dumbed" down and more focused on casuals. Cash shops went in, game had less atmosphere, customers went down.
Throwing that in because I think it's relevent to what you said. SWTOR didn't copy the "good" model" from WoW that was increasing subscribers. They copied the "bad" model, which drove gamers away.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
It is very difficult to say what lure or turn people off. Your individual personal bias or preference might be vastly different from average or majority of players.
They can always adjust the restrictions and it is better to start with something more strict and loosen it later than the other way round.
Its not very difficult with SWTOR. Its very easy.
And you saying that - its like saying "oh, but it doesnt matter that it SUCKS NOW, they can always fix it AFTER LAUNCH"
Yeah, well, that turned up nicely rofl they "fixed" it alright
They miss and miss and miss....and all those misses will cost them dearly in the end.
That's like saying you can always start with a crappy game and have it get better .. then people will love it.
Or .. you can have a hugely restrictive game that didn't get much appeal .. then you loosen the limits, and people will love it.
No.
You get a single shot with a games release or re-release when it comes to publicity. If you tinker with it later, you might get something nice, but it won't be worthy of a new press release and everything bad which was said has already stuck in everyones mind.
EA tinkered with the SWTOR F2P model after it was released.
At that point the publicity is limited to fan sites. EA fubared their F2P model and that is how it will be remembered for 99% of potential gamers. Whether you or I know about the tweaks won't affect much with SWTOR. We are the small % that actually blog about games.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
They are increasing the quickslot bars for preferred players next week but I'm wondering if they haven't already alienated a good portion of the returning players.
One thing I do disagree about people not rechecking games. You see it here all the time people asking if it is worth going back to an older game and whether it has improved. I hate it when people make these generalized statements about how they think a majority of players will behave. What possible evidence do you have of how people react aside from your own prejudiced views ?
I like the game btw so what I am one of those idiots in your book. Many people I say this from the general chat in SWTOR love the game and they like the story just because you don't does not make it a crappy game.
As I already pointed out, a "crappy game" is very subjective term.
According to this site and many users here, WoW and alike are "crappy games", yet they are played by millions making enough money to support their further development.
Every business model is and always be tinkered later, when some objective data are available.
First off, if it would have been up to me, the game wouldn't have had to go F2P in the first place. I would have created an actual MMO that people would have paid and stayed for. I would have actually listened to the Beta testers, weekend testers and the actual players after launch to correct the deficiences that were present and the ones that weren't foreseen after launch.
It amazes me that people truly think it is hard to correct issues and to take in and implement feedback. But I guess it's like someone said, common sense really isn't that common.
They could have started by implementing a free / silver / gold type of member. With free members being promoted to silver once they have made a purchase and gold members demoted to that if they stop subscribing, but allowing them to keep on to the content they unlocked.
There are plenty of decent examples out there: lotro, ddo, aion, ...
One of the other requirements would be to actually create new content to sell, instead of pretty much only locking down parts of your game unless you pay, pissing people off.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Thats why theres good stuff and bad stuff. SWTORs F2P goes to bad bin.
Ahhh, but thats the problem, their snail paced content releases wouldnt be enough, so they resorted to stuff like quickbars and hide helmet.
TBH if they actually had decent content releases they wouldnt fail so hard to have to go F2P in the first place.
6 months for WZ? 6 month for OP? 6 months for FP? 6 months for few daily quests? And thats pretty muc devoid of any story/voiced over stuff so people cant blame story/voiceovers this time around.
Painfully slow.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
There's a thing obviously STOR managers lacked is: common sense.
Sadly they had really great suggestion over the years on the forums and well some designers new better but it was them against the ones in power during a global economy crisis...