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Why PVP scares some people?
maccarthur2004
Member UncommonPosts: 511
My first mmos played (UO and L2) had open PVP and it was regarded as essential part of the enviroment, indispensable to the social, political and economic dynamics of the virtual world. People in almost totality did all the other things provided by the server (pve, craft, etc) preparing to pvp in search of resources, domains, ownerships of castles/fortress/territorys, glory, respect, rivalry, revenge, fun and etc.
I only made contact with people that hate PVP after joining WoW and reading foruns. This was a novelty to me and let me very intrigued and curious about the reasons of the people that avoid PVP. Reading opinions and various texts in the internet, i saw that this population "pvp-hater" can be subdivided in 2 categories: people that likes or is indiferent to pvp itself, but hates the "free pvp" ("open world FFA pvp") and people that are truly scared of any type of pvp, even the structured. I came to a conclusion about the ultimate (or primary) causes that make PVP be disliked by some people:
1- PVE characters stays in certain spots waiting to be approached, while players can come to you.
Keeping all the other factors equal, is this the main "annoyance" of the pvp to much people. If the monsters stayed wandering the world, invading cities, aproaching players while they are occupied, distracted, no prepared or no "in mood" to fight, this "annoyance" would be regarded as a normal thing and pvp would be less loathed by these people. These monster and other AI NPC attacks would be considered "legitimates" and source of thrill, adrenaline and adventure, challenging the players in strive to survive, dodging or fighting the threats. But the same, if made by human-controled characters, is (consciously or no) regarded as "illegitimate", "desnecessary", "harassment", etc
But in 99,9% of today mmos, the PVE characters stay stopped in specific spots waiting to be slaughtered like sheeps in the pasture (see item 2).
This item explains the complains about "balance", zerg and trans-level kill too: PVE characters can too be "overpowered", in greater number or higher lv, but they stay in their spots, allowing the players approach them only if in advantageous conditions.
2- Human-controled characters is much more harder to defeat in 99% of the time.
As the AI tecnology is still far away from the capacity of a actual human brain, the human-controled characters, in equal conditions, will be more harder to defeat and unpredictable. To defeat a human-controled player requires a minimum of training, attention and motor coordination from the players, ie, skill and mental work, which not everyone is willling to do or have. Some people (i dont know if the majority or no) wanna play a mmo to just "relax" and do unchallenging things as pastime, like knitting.
If the AI controlled characters had the same complex fighting behavior and tactics of the humans, the pvp would be less hated by these people too, since there wouldn't much difference.
PVE characters can only become "hard" with gigantic increase in their stats, but still are predictable like a bull in the arena and can be easily beaten by a group of players whose only "challenge" is to form and keep a group able to memorize a handful of "movements".
3- In most mmos, PVE offfers more guaranteed rewards.
This is the main reason to much people. In 99% of the mmos, the PVE offers game rewards in a regular and guaranteed way, while PVP dont, or, if it offers, is at a high risk that sometimes dont compensates. Many mmos fails in create a functional risk-reward system to the pvp, and ends up not attracting the population that dont pvp for fun, but could happily (?) pvp if the potential reward is tempting. These mmos with bad risk-reward systems makes the pvp be practiced only by the people that have fun in doing it regardless of the "reward".
The sandboxes mmos almost always creates a good risk-reward system, since the players competes by countless things in the open world.
In summary: pvp requires more work, attention and skill to be handled (either fighting, fleeing, dodging or avoiding) and not always gives valuable rewards to tempt the people turned away by these requirements.
Comments
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
So, you fits the item 1 described in the text.
Are you referring to PvP in general, or OWPvP/FFAPvP? There are many people who are fine with PvP, just not with open world PvP, free for all PvP or full loot PvP. It's not PvP that turns them off, it's specific implementations of PvP.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I'm not against PvP. I certainly am not "scared" of it (love how people use the word scared for people who don't like things, but i digress).
However, I'm what you would call a "terribad", so I avoid PvP for the most part.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
So why are you waiting ArcheAge? Is better read about the game before to wait.
There's a good bit of non-PvP sandbox content in the game. It's also possible to setup protected areas. So while the game has PvP, it's possible to have some control of it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Your post starts on the wrong foot, and thus will likely lead nowhere interesting.You insinuate that there are 3 basic attitudes of players toward PVP:
-like it
-indifferent
-scared by it.
If you had really wanted to make three mutually exclusive states, the third category would have read: dislike it
But no, they are sssscccaaaaarrrreeddd.......
What would you say if I described the 3 basic attitudes of players toward PVE:
-like it
-indifferent
-scared by it.
In my knowledge, only the start areas and houses (in most situations) will be "protected". Out of them, anyone can kill anyone, with penaltys if the same faction in the southern continents. The northern continent will be "lawless".
Interesting premise. I don't think pvp requires any more work really. Sandboxes really have nothing to do with risk vs rewards or pvp, those are three different beasts a sandbox would still be sandbox with or without those other two.
Please elaborate on the experiences you've had that led you to the conclusion that people are scared of pvp in a video game. This seems very strange to me.
Complementing: there will be a little of "loot-pvp" too. The itens required to build (wood, stones, etc) will need to be carried by the players (in a visible and encumbrance way)) from storage or extraction point to the spot, and will drop if the player dies.
Scared?
AA has a outlaw system which if it works will stop a lot of MINDLESS killing from the fear of going to trial or becoming an outlaw. While those guildw will exist there will be an equal number of outlaw hunting guilds. PVP type servers where pvp is open is alright to me, I use to play on one but when it turns from competitive one on one pvp to ganking I just log off and wait for him to leave.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
...... Everytime you call someone "scared" I cant take you seriously. And no losing crafting amts doesnt bother me its when I lose gear that i get pissed off not "scared"
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
I don't think it has anything to do with anyone being scared of PVP, I never heard anyone ever say that, many hate PVP yes.
I don't like PVP because:
-the gameplay of PVP is 9 out of 10 time really really bad
-the PVP community is usually incredibly rude
-I have no time to deal with griefing little kids in an MMO
-There is never cooperation in PVP games, it's always one person or a handful of peope button mashing, no organised raids
-Many PVP players cry on the forum that classes aren't balanced because they get killed one-on-one, classes are not supposed to be balanced in PVE games that's what teamwork is for
-etc etc etc
Pretty much the same here.
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
Scared in a video game? Never gonna happen.
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This. I love competitive games, but I just cannot stand MMO PvP. I dunno, just everything about it annoys me.
10 out of 10 games, it's X amount of dudes running around in a circle, casting spell X, using the only viable build for their class, hoping something procs or crits or whatever, and sometimes waiting for backup. It's just pure chaos in the worst way possible.
It has nothing to do with spell effects or any of that either. I just think that, given the way most MMOs work at their core, they don't lend themselves well to PvP.
Some people love mmo pvp. More power to 'em. I am clearly not one of those people.
I think exactly the opposite.
I had the opposite experience. The only mmo with "structured" PVP that i played (wow) have the worst community regarding the rudeness. If you are refering to griefers, i agree 100%, but if you are refering to the community of a mmo where pvp is free, i disagree, because in these communities is good to have many friends and little enemys to progress better.
Described in item 1 of the OP text. You wanna only be the killer/hunter of dumb mobs and NEVER the target.
LoL
MMOs with pvp requires more cooperation to progress than "safe" mmos. In a mmo like WoW, the people group in very specific situations and in a transient way.
Isn't necessary to have "balance" in PVE, since the AI character are already far more weak or dumb.
Well OP I'm in the camp that you didn't mention. People that hate Esport PvP that has no point other than bragging rights. Open world PvP is fine with me as long as it is towards a larger goal.
I also have some resentment towards PvP as devs insist on watering down PvE in the name of PvP balance. Class distinction is destroyed and fun powerful abilities are now 3 second fears and 2 second mezes.
So, you fits in the item 3 from the starting text.
PvP "lovers" (in keeping with the nature of this thread) do not consider how imbalanced PvP can be. Particularly in a level based game. They also fail to acknowledge that there are absolutely no negative consequences for just "killing of killings sake". It is one thing to "kill" in the name of war, theivery or passion. It is a totatlly different thing to do it just because you can. To some, it is not "fun" to just be the victim of those that just want to get the epeen for the night. So, if I am a level 1 out doing quests and some level 50 comes along and beats me down he may get some sick pleasure out of it. I on the other hand just get a bad taste of what the game it going to be like. It is not "fear" as was pointed out in the opening post. It is just that there is no reason for it and it is not at all competitve.
Speaking of competitive, what point is saying that it is "skill" when one player (or several in many cases) out levels their targets. What "skill" is involved if one person has far inferior equipment then someone that is fully high geared? Skill can only be measured if all possible variables as just mentioned are equal. Otherwise, it is not skill that wins those fights but the higher level or the much superior equipment.
So don't tell me that PvP scares people. It doesn't scare people, they just don't like being on the wrong end of a badly mismatched system that is not fun.
Let's party like it is 1863!
This. I would have far less problem with PvP if it wouldn't attract the bigest a-hole of the gaming community. My other problem with PvP ( well only with forced PvP, not in general ) that other players think they have the right to force me to entertain them when I don't feel so, and to be their content when I want to mind my own business.
OP, what if there was a game where another player could run up to you when you were having fun in an activity, could stop you doing that and could force you to sing a song for 5 minutes ? Would you enjoy that ? I'm not scared of PvP...I really doubt anyone is. But I can be very irritated by it, when other players waste and steal my precious gaming time.
I don't think that's the case at all.
I think players who do not like pvp are generally against concentrating on something and then WHAM one shotted or besieged by a zerg of players. Then afterwards the attackers are sometimes just plain rude and insulting.
I don't think they would have any problem with wandering npc monsters. Essentially it's the aggressive human element that turns them off unless the pvp is on their own terms.
Meaning they have entered an area/battleground and are ready to fight and don't mind dying. In that case they are mentally prepared for waht is about to happen.
As opposed to "oh look there's some iron... WHAM".
back to town.
noob.
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