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Taking legal action against The Secret World
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It IS legal to change the contract as often as they want. Each time you sign the new one, you negate the old one. You can choose not to agree to the new one and you lose access to the software.
The case you cited in South Korea is a great example. It was not over the TOS, but rather sales and refund policy. Blizzard has a NO REFUND policy, which was what South Korea stepped in to address. South Korean law has a consumer protection caveat that states that refunds must be given for any product that has a defect not caused by the consumer. Blizzard's server woes caused that defect and therefore their policy was superceded by the laws of the nation.
Contracts may not supercede the laws in the country of either party. Interestingly enough, counter to layman speculation, when one element of a contract is voided, the whole contract is not itself void.
Actually with what they cost per hour, he'd prob lose all he would have gained after hiring a lawyer for 1-2 hour(s). so its really not worth it. But still, if you buy a lifetime sub in any of todays themepark mmo's I just laugh my ass off.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Yeah, most sane lifers seem to be pretty happy with this - we're still getting all the content, but it seems likely we'll have some extra points left over as well (assuming the average content update costs less than 1200 points), which we didn't have before.
Just shows the OP knows jack***t about legal issues.
EULA is binding in Europe as well and a common legal practice. Of course EULA, or any other Terms and Conditions, cannot be in violation with legislation of the given country, but everything else is binding to all Parties.
REALITY CHECK
Well, there are, but most crap that's written in any EULA is not valid within the bounderies of the EU. And if OP lives in the EU I think he even has a fair chance on succeeding with his claim since FunCom is a EU company, bound to the same EU laws...
best B2P model on a market
well whiners will still whine
TSW life time isn't worthless. Inform yourself please. I ended up buying GM pack yesterday because it is a great deal. Infact life time subscribers got even a better deal with new changes.
Cannot predict the future but so far I can agree. At least for me it does not look like a bad deal.
You will not get anywhere taking legal action.. it would probally not even get into most courts.
At the end of the day they are providing a service and they chance change said service whenever they want. Gon on OP try and sue them and waste your time LOL.
To me it seems like a decent deal and I brought the game and subbed for a few months..
For those that say EULAs are binding: not so.
In the US at least, software and other media EULAs have been repeatedly found to be legally defective on several points, mostly relating to contract law, but also veering into areas of consumer protection and "first use/fair use" of media.
One thing the software industry has been doing, is settling quietly with people who do file suit. Very rarely do these kinds of cases go all the way to verdict and there is a very good reason: the software companies are scared shitless of the ramifications of possible verdicts.
On the few occasions EULAs have gone to verdict, they have almost uniformly "lost" and found defective on one or more points.
One I do recall is with Autodesk and some guy trying to resell copies of Autocad, which supposedly violated terms of the EULA. That one did go to verdict and the company lost, huge.
The only reason people think EULAs are binding, is because they are rarely challenged. (Not many people are going to sue over a $60 video/comp game.)
Well, I still dont think it will help in this case. What EU law provides is a protection against using EULA's to give the user worse conditions that the base law provides them. So if this somehow breaks some EU law, sure it will help, but if not teh EULA stands.
First, when an EULA is not conform with any law, its not valid
In europe an EULA is only valid when beeing known before buying.
An EULA during Installation, so after you bought the product, is not valid.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endbenutzer-Lizenzvertrag
An its the same within european law. So every upcoming EULA During Installation is not valid in the eurpean union.
The same is with changing EULA.
Unkown to me is what happens if you have a P2P with monthly subscription, i think this is seen different, because you have the option to cancel the service.
The main usage is, if you have to pay for something, then during your payment made licenses are ok. But you pay in a shop, so the first time you see the EULA is not when using your keycode, you normally face it when you launch first time. and this is normally after your payment, and thats what i makes illegal.
so in this case you can only check if your payment as lifetimer gave you priviliges you now dont have any more.
not having made a good deal with lifetime is something different i think.
So there are no Terms and Conditions for players in Europe? How can you plan an MMO without agreeing to terms and conditions?
Clickwrap agreements (such as EULAS) are not binding in Europe. This is because such things have to be signed and agreed upon [i]before[/b] the payment is made (ie, the sales contract is signed).
Since these 'terms and conditions' cannot be viewed or agreed upon before buying the game (boxed in any case), it is deemed pretty much useless, pointless and illegal in Europe.
Companies can put in all the clickwrap agreements they want but unless they are made available before you pay for the product they are simply not legally binding or valid. Furthermore, changing the terms of the agreement is completely illegal without consulting all parties involved, companies do not get a free pass to change it one-sided as much as they like. This applies to 'normal' contracts aswell, let alone clickwrap agreements which aren't even legal in the first place.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
you're assuming funcom's eula/tos is considered a clickwrap agreement. i can read wikopedia too. it comes down to how the judge see's it. it's pretty much case by case and testimony would play a major part in the decision. not all eula's are null and void in europe. otherwise they wouldnt exsist in europe.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
As far as i know purchasing the game itself doesn't yield immediate acces to the game. One needs to set up a subscription.
In that sence, TWO sales are being done:
1) purchasing the software (a license to use the software)
2) Purchasing the use of an online service.
As far as i can remember, before setting up a sub, one needs to agree to the terms and conditions (see the judicial doctrine concerning standard contracts) so one could argue that despite everything, the EULA is being presented to you for reading BEFORE you purchase the service and is as such valid.
Also: using wiki as a valid judicial source ... /facedesk.
Pretty much every MMO I have played except WoW and Rift have gone F2P (or B2P in this case). SoE didnt pay me for the 5 years of EQ2 I paid for before it went F2P. Stop being rediculous and grow up.
If you buy online maybe you are right, but not when buying a boxed version.
this is some part of that:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d54ff9e6-c515-11e1-b6fd-00144feabdc0.html
"The ECJ, however, said that resellers like UsedSoft were not bound by license agreements banning the resale of software licenses."
so ask yourself why you are not bound to license agreements in europe
this is made for downloaded and boxed software, so it depends on when you have been shown the license.
there hasnt been someone yet who claimed against eulas in europe, why should you until today, you are not bound on agreements wich come during installation. i ignore them.
You are overestimating the importance of terms and conditions. If an agreement was unreasonable to begin with or the party who offers you the agreement gives themselves the right to pretty much ignore any of YOUR rights or to change things one-sidedly, then that agreement is null because it is unbalanced.
Now, I don't know anything about TSW's plans, but if the OP is right in his statements, that does seem very unfair.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
can you explain me why? wikipedia normally shows the source of information, so if the wikipedia itself maybe wrong, you can find your solution with that sources listed there.
i am german, i am sorry not to find an english version of our law, should i post the german articles. do you think you will get easier behind our law system?
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bgb/BJNR001950896.html#BJNR001950896BJNG023401377
§§305-310 BGB for germany.
" He who does not file suit goes hungry "
MAGA
So, Banzai, you're just going to start a lengthy and costly legal battle, tie up some useful court time, and for what? Some perceived mistreatment?
Wow.. first world problems, man...
This is what you got for the Grand Master package:
1 Additional Character Slot
**1 Additional Name Reservation (not even needed anymore)
Set of XP Potions
Set of Talismans
Lifetime 10% discount (for the in-game item store)
Life-time Subscription
Snakeskin Jacket
Did you not get any of those items?
Now they are changing the business model. Nothing you have received thus far is invalidated. PLUS, they are looking after their lifetimers by giving you Funcom points, exclusive monthly items, and a whole bunch more. I think that makes up the missing 5 bucks your whole point seems to be based around.
Subs, life-time or otherwise, gave you access to content. Now, the sub is no longer required, so they give you other stuff instead.
You haven't been ripped off. Things change. So you're getting other stuff to equal (and beyond) value of the sub price.
Is it really, honestly worth quibbling and throwing law suite crap around for some perceived loss of a couple bucks a month?
Really?