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Taking legal action against The Secret World
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When the game came out, I considered the lifetime subscription but then I thought it would probably go ftp in six months so I held off. With them going b2p, I got to say I am thrilled to have already purchased this game and am looking forward to start playing it again.
I'm not quite sure, based on how the market has been changing the last couple of years, what these lifetime subers thought was going to happen? It seemed obvious since beta that the outcome would tread along these lines.
Hindsight is pretty awesome stuff.
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
Personally I figured it'd go F2P at some point and then I'd get points to spend in the store for the rest of the games existance. This happened sooner than I thought it would, but I still don't have any real complaints. Most of my lifetime subscription choise was based on my really liking the product and a desire to support the company that made something I quite like. Well that and the expectation that I'd be playing it for months and months to come..
Armchair lawyers assemble!
IF what everyone is saying about EULA and TOS being worthless in europe do you REALLY think these games would keep coming....
Still please do go ahead and tell us your professional opinions on this. Fact is, if you enjoy the game you are getting a good deal. The alternative to this move was quite simply your lifetime sub "expiring" very quickly if you get my drift.
By your logic, murder wouldn't exist unless it was allowed by law. Please think about what you're saying here.
Clickwrap agreements were 'invented' in the 90's as a way for companies to force their policies on users and retain control of their programs. They have long been in a grey area untill a few cases in Europe where they have been shot down HARD. That doesn't prevent companies from including them anyway since they know that people like you will believe whatever they're told... I'm sorry to be so rude, but that's simply how it is. Most companies aren't ideological hippies, they're bastards who want your money and nothing else. Money is what this is about, not customers.
Fact is, they are better that the potential gain by putting the clickwrap agreements on their stuff is higher than the potential loss of someone sueing them for their illegality. It's simple business, nothing else.
There's no "case by case" here. you sign a sales contract by buying a product. Changing that contract after it has been signed by way of a clickwrap agreement is illegal. This is what has been decided in every case about clickwrap agreements that has ever gone to court, but since so few people actually stand up for their rights most companies still pretend that they're fully legal since most people actually believe that. Or, they don't, but they know that it's a stupidly big hassle to actually do something about it.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
"The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless."
So don't subscribe?
And if you buy a lifetime sub, well, blame your own stupidity. Do you want the developers to keep an aged payment model because you were dumb enough to pay a shitload for a lifetime subscription?
Does anyone else think this is stupid? Funcom hasn't taken anything away from lifetime subscribers. The experience of playing the game is unchanged from when they purchased the lifetime sub. They added additional benefits for lifetime subscribers above and beyond what their current benefits were.
What, exactly, did lifetime subscribers lose in the transition from Subscription to B2P?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
If TSW goes under/gets closed down because lifetime subbers sue the company what will their precious lifetime sub be worth then?
You have to realise if FC want, they can shut down TSW at the end of the month and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
If you have no faith in the publisher or the game, why purchase a lifetime sub in the first place?
This happened to STO and most of the lifetime subbers are really happy now, they have a thriving game that was previously dying on it's arse and they get lots of bonus stuff each month as compensation.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
I am pretty sure that the arguement is valid for boxed versions as well. The first fifty odd euro you spend are for the box, disk and manual which provide you ownership of the raw amterials and a license for the software, the second step is to close a second contract for an online service.
Fact is that it is still a very shady aspect of trade law. The doctrine i was able to find on the judicial databases i'm subscribed to is not very extensive (as little as five articles which touched the subject briefly)
I urge you to actually read the oracle case as well: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=124564&doclang=EN&mode=req
It's not about the original purchase, but about reselling the license, which is a different thing.
So what was a lifetime sub $200, maybe more or less depending on your country?
Most lawyers wont even listen to your claim for that.
I guess you could go the class action route. But then you have to prove that there was a willfull attempt to defraud/hurt the group.
Personally I come from a different time and thought process. One filled with paranoia and distrust. Keeps me and my tinfoil hats safe I tell you. But I don't buy "lifetime subs", pre-order, pay for beta, none of that junk. How does that saying go?..oh yeah.."If it sounds too good to be true, it is false."
I'm sorry for anyone who is truely hurt by teh loss of this $200, even if in reality you lost nothing, except your status as a "Lifer". Might I suggest bending over, reaching between your legs, grabbing your shoulders, pulling hard, and getting breath of fresh air.
If they are non binding, then what grounds would their be to sue the company? They are getting the same thing they got before the change (access to the game and future updates through the coin stipend). What the OP seems mad about is that other people who previously didn't have access to the game because they didn't pay a sub, now have access to the game without paying a sub. If you had a sub before, either monthly or lifetime, nothing changes except there is a new step to access issues. I guess adding an extra hoop to jump through is annoying, but I can't imagine it is law breaking.
EU law, a German law is even more specific about this.
Do mind that the UK s much more relaxed about this, though this is also still an issue concerning EU jurisdiction in these cases where the parties involvled in the cases rarely, if ever, took the step to EU courts to verify their steps and procedures.
Also check this document:
http://www.ivir.nl/publications/guibault/ERPL_2011_6.pdf
At best, the entire thing is still under debate in Europe. It has never definitively been validated as legal.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
This is exactly why EULA's are pointless. There's no grounds to countersue either. However, please do mind that the lifetime purchasers still got exactly what was advertised: Perpetual access to all the game's features. The way Funcom offers it doesn't matter, the end result does in this case. While the morality is arguable, from a legal standpoint there's nothing to complain about.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
Which begs the question why would you ever buy a lifetime sub for something you cant guarentee for the next month? You cant blame someone for a RISK you openly took.
Thats like investing money in a stock that tanks and then asking for your money back because you didnt know it was going to happen.
Is it sad? yes. Is it unfortunate? Perhaps. Is it illegal? No.
Caveat Emptor.
For the life of me i cannot find them. For some reason all my searches lead to US cases which are irrelevant here.
I only know of 2 cases for certain: One in the UK which ended 'undecided' (iirc the company settled with the claimant) and one in Germany where the claimant (customer) won the case.
That said - EU law and German law is there. Cases or not, judges can't exactly ignore it and make up their own laws.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Edit: found an interesting paper about the US cases though, i did not know the cases there were not as black-and-white as i thought:
http://www.sutherland.com/files/Publication/104c7fcb-7342-4023-b4c2-5b0776303aa3/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/99a80cf1-3fd7-44a3-9506-1622c382abaf/CunninghamWitkowComputerInternetLawyerJournalJune06.pdf
Even the ProCD case left some nasty wounds on the industry apparently.
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
1. Can the mods merge the threads concerning this? Please.