Originally posted by CalmOceans When a non-native person (like me I guess) joins an English server, some people tend to get annoyed and frustrated,-Is it because of that person's place of origin? Do you feel they won't be able to relate because of cultural differences?-Is it because their English is often so bad that there's a real communication barrier?-Is it because they write in their own language at times?
I've never been on a server or game where it was actually an issue. I always thought it was kind of cool when another language showed up in chat.
I do remember when Blizzard did something to their server locations and a bunch of Portuguese speaking people showed up on one or two servers. It created an issue because there was no majority population so it became the people speaking English (or whatever they were speaking, might have been Spanish) versus the people speaking Portuguese. Blizzard finally setup some Portuguese servers, which I think alleviated the issue, but it was a problem.
I think it's only an issue when people are left to decide for themselves what everyone should speak and there's no majority language on a server.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think as long as the person speaks the native tongue it's not an issue. I've had friends from various European countries and Australia and consider myself richer for the experience.
One drawback though is the use of voice programs like Teamspeak or ventrilo. While accents are not really noticeable in text, trying to understand instructions during a raid when everyone has very thick accents is difficult. I remember one of my buddies joining an australian guild and so I joined. Even though they were speaking English, it was really hard for me to understand them at times, especially in the heat of the moment when accents can sometimes get even thicker. The other problem was the time of day they were typically on was different. But that's what I agreed to when I signed on, and they were a nice group of people.
I'll add that in Lineage 2 there were people from other countries who had very little english and I successfully partied with them once we got what needed to happen down. This was earlier in the game's history when there were not only asian farmer but actual asian players.
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Voice chat causes more problem than text, but you still don't need a degree in English to take part in a raid conversation. Our German guy in one MMO was hesitant to speak as he was worried about his pronunciation. Once he got passed that we had him leading raids.
So the importance of speaking the server language is about the ability to take part in what’s on offer.
As for the cultural thing, if you are playing a MMO you are almost certainly in a country where "culture" is determined by the media. I don't think culture exists anymore, we now only really only have media fashion, which becomes more alike the world over day by day. So I am not sure what cultural differences could be a problem.
I'm a non-native player in Rift. I'm Dutch but play on the american shard. Very friendly guild, no issues at all. I can speak English. This counts for me, please respect the server you're on, so talk in the language of the server. If it's english, talk english.
I like this post. I am personally a french canadian, and when I play with my friends it is like someone said : I will speak in english in every common/general/trade/party chat. I will talk in french sometimes ,but in whispers.
I personally hate when other french people ( my kind , i guess ) Speak french over general chat, or any other language. Most game offers servers for em, so if they really want it they can join them.
I play wow a lot and it is getting really annoying to be queued with portugese players, mostly because they do not even know how to speak english and that they queue 2 or 3 together and keep spamming party chat with portugese text, that is really annoying
I have nothing against a person from another country joins my guild. We had several from denmark, australia, germany, and holland in our guild.
Almost allof them speak English very well.
The problem I have is with the one guy from France, who types in guld chat in French, who speaks in ventrillo in French. I don't k now how to speak French, oh and he does speak english however broken as bad as it is. I can understand his broken English even as bad as it is.
I don't discrimanate against anybody from other places, just please talk to me in a language I can understand, otherwise I do get a bit irritated. If I cant understand your needs, I cant help you, nor do I understand you.
Doesn't bother me one bit. I enjoy meeting people from other countries, and getting to know them. My first guild was full of europeans, and it made for some good times. We were always making smartass comments referencing stereotypes in chat. It was a lot of fun.
I enjoyed the translator in FFXI, it made communication easy. My friends and I would play around with the translator just to see what funny phrases we could come up with. One of my favorites was. [Sorry, I'm busy right now] [hands] [down] [pants] [jerkin] [meat] [rod]. Anyways, I don't have a problem if a non native joins my server, the more the merrier!!
i get more annoyed at the ignorant people who think games are meant to be spoken in english. theres been plenty of times people will start talking in another language in a global chat and some ignorant person will come around and say "english only"(usually an American) when theres no rules stating that a game is only spoken in english.
The only time that I've felt racist when dealing with videogames is against the french. They keep going on about how rouges are OP and that ticks me off. How can a color be OP!!!
Other than that, I am always willing to treat any player fairly and respectfully.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
Originally posted by eyelolled The only time that I've felt racist when dealing with videogames is against the french. They keep going on about how rouges are OP and that ticks me off. How can a color be OP!!!
ROTFLMAO
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
As long as I can understand them and they can understand me, I have no problem with it. It's when they come to an English server, group up with you, and then continue to speak non-english, that they bother me. If they can't speak English, I just don't group with them. If you're grouped up with people you need to be able to communicate.
I have no problem with people from various countries being on the same server. I can see where grouping might be an issue if there are language barriers, but if the servers are populated enough then hopefully people will be able to find others that speak the same language for the purpose of grouping. If I'm aware of groups or guilds that speak the same language, I will try to communicate the information with the person, or at least give the information on how to find others that speak their language. As far as people speaking their native language in open chat, I have no problem with it. I've met people from other countries through MMOs and I find it a fun way to learn about other places/cultures. For those who are just there to play the game, there should be plenty of people for them to group with that people who are "non-native" shouldn't interfer in any way with them playing a game. If they do have issues with it, I hope they are making sure that the game they are playing and the company that created it are American based.
(edit to clarify: not saying that American games are or should be "english only," but if someone is going to have an opinion of "if you come to my server, you need to speak my language," then they need to realize that if a game is created by a company from a country where english is not the native language, the reason that game exist in english and has an english server is the game was translated rather than expecting people to learn their language to play their game).
Individuals are rarely a problem. The biggest issue I have seen is when a group of people from a given country join a server and they become very insular and region-proud. This can happen with US players on non-US servers, but it's especially common when a game has a global server and the game becomes popular in a relatively small country. To not pick on any given nation, I'll use the fictional dictatorship of Dr. Doom, Latveria, as an example.
On a given server, there will be a few major communications hubs. The largest of these will have at least one group from 12:00-02:00 Latverian time either conversing in Latverian or gathering a Latverian group for something. They will typically shun non-Latverians unless it is someone of a particular skillset that they do not have a member covering already. If you are brought in to a Latverian group, rest assured that unless loot is a dice roll, you get nothing. If a Latverian appears with your skill set, you will be removed forcibly without explanation to make room for them. If you stay in the party so they can have two people performing a role, you will be considered the "worse" one regardless of your ability. A finely honed Latverian group that recognizes talent may accept a skilled non-Latverian playing a highly undesirable role. In this case, the Latverian who was rejected in favor of you will become your personal enemy for as long as they can remember your name. They will also drag your name in the mud amongst any other Latverian they can, so unless you have the fortune of joining with a very elite and influential group, you will get unexpected jeers and rejections from unrelated people, simply because you were good at what you do.
If a Latverian wishes to join your group or guild, you will either not know they are Latverian as they are embarrassed by the behavior of fellow Latverians, or they will be so bottom of the barrel that Latverian groups and guilds reject them. They will join pick-up groups freely, boasting of their own contributions and blaming everyone else for all wrongs. They especially loathe healers and buffers who are not glued to them as top priority.
If Latverians are a small faction, they will often become more insular over time and eventually become invisible. If they are a significant minority, there is a real chance that the game masters will need to intervene at some point to prevent hostility from spiraling out of control. This largely depends on whether one faction makes up a disproportionate amount of the game's revenues. If Latverians are 10% of the population and 1% of the revenues, they may find that global chat becomes English-only for a global server, or that Latverian abuse/spamming results in bans far quicker than usual until the Latverian community disintegrates. If they are 90% of the revenues, the server is effectively Latverian and others are merely permitted to play on it.
If there is any form of massive server-wide PvP, Latverians will almost always congregate to form a PvP group of their own. While their numbers are small in absolute terms, the fact that nearly all Latverians will be drawn to this group means they either have the benefit of high numbers or free pick amongst the best of Latverian players rather than fighting to recruit on a more open field. In cases like this, the only thing Latverians hate more than non-Latverians are non-Latverian healers/buffers, non-Latverians who beat them in PvP, and worst of all, non-Latverian healers/buffers who beat them in PvP.
The worst part is that many of these Latverian players are individually likable. When gathered together, national/linguistic pride leads them to be much less likable. Somehow, the most influential Latverian groups will be led by some of the most insular Latverians of all. If you met them on some other game with no Latverian population to speak of, you'd never know it because they're an entirely different person.
All of this is just a regrettable function of bad communication, negative feedback loops, and often a Latverian gaming culture which is not as skilled as the majority gaming cultures on a server. The most common solution proposed by both sides is to have a dedicated Latverian server, but this is not always feasible. If the problem is tackled head on early and there are enough people who speak both English and Latverian, the communities can get along together reasonably well. If there is minimal language overlap and more cultural differences, there will be trouble between Latverians and non-Latverians.
The above comes from my experiences on a number of MMOs. "Latveria" could be replaced by any of a dozen different countries in that case. Sometimes things smooth out, sometimes Latveria gets a server, sometimes Latverians are driven off, sometimes the server becomes de-facto Latverian. The first result is really the only one that doesn't leave hard feelings, but the second is quite acceptable if it is practical.
I've been on all sides of this equation. I've been the Latverian on a non-global non-US server. I've spoken enough Latverian to hang out with Latverians casually, but I was never really one of them. I've welcomed a few straggling Latverians and made friends albeit poor communication left things distant. I've talked with Latverians who just had no interest in assimilating to the general culture and were just not terribly pleasant. I've dealt with actively noxious Latverians. I've supported well-meaning Latverians. I've shunned invasive Latverians. In the end, it's just a problem of human communication, gaming cultures, and human cultures. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
When I'm dealing with a Latverian on my server, my biggest dislike is when there's a bright [LATVERIA] tag or guild name hanging out, screaming "I AM SO LATVERIAN!" as if it were a call to form a Latverian server within the global server. Worse yet is if your character is named LATV3RIA. Other than that, I like seeing a Latverian contingent that gets along well with the global majority. Adds flavor to the community and Latverians of different nationalities can be pretty interesting sorts with a lot to share. I can't really blame Latverians for wanting to play with others who speak their language, but if I can communicate with them well and they actively try, that makes the entire thing more enjoyable. Truth be told, native English speakers with bad English bother me far more than Latverians with limited English. The latter group is actually putting forth effort, and I have to appreciate that.
Side note- Gold farmers are not included as Latverians. Every gold farmer I've met has either spoken to virtually nobody and is engaged wholly in the task at hand, or they're quiet but pleasant because they're under extreme pressure to perform well and can't afford a petulant kid in the majority hating on them and impeding their work. I pity their situation, the job is remarkably unpleasant. I don't like what gold farming does to a game, but I just buff those guys and wish them well anyway because seriously, that's a person trying to fill their stomach and sleep under a roof. Lashing out at them does nothing to the bosses who run the operation.
It's option B for me. There's always going to be a language barrier. They may know english, but it's so poor of a quality that it's almost a different language entirely. This can be very frustrating in team oriented games like League of Legends. Nothing is more irritating than joining a game only to find out half or atleast one person on your team speaks spanish, or is brazillian, or any other spanish speaking heritage. Even worse when they're playing an important role like jungler or solo top.You can't even insult them for playing poorly because they won't understand you.
But what is more aggrivating than that is when your whole team is speaking english at one point and then suddenly two guys find out they're from the same country, or that they both speak spanish and decide that they're going to communicate in spanish only. They end up talking only to each other the whole time and the team suffers for it.
So yes it is a problem when non-natives join our servers. There are different region/country/language based servers for a very good reason. Nothing to do with race IMO, though some opinions may vary.
"I'm not a racist, but....[insert racist comment]"
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
That is what made FFXI so great,you played on multi cultural servers,there are no regional servers.
I couldn't care less about language,i had my best of times playing alongside JPN players and befriended a funny cool jpn player.FFXI has a language translator for msot of the major words in the game.
It really shows how care free devs are now days,they do very little to make their games complete ,still NOBODY using a language translator,FFXI the first and probably the last.Games are even getting too lazy to have guilds or prefer to make excuses why they don't.
Developers shoudl be trying to do as much as possible to bring the community together but instead the yaim for soloing and pvp whcih pits players competing rather than working together,i feel the premise behind game design is all wrong.
No where in life do you segregate cultures from one another,except maybe in chruches where they tend to stick to theri own but of course not always.So why in gaming?
Because you're a game developer right? And I'm sure you know the premise behind game design like the back of your hand. Perhaps you should write a book about it.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
it doesnt bother me if they join the server, or if they can't speak english very well, but if people join a designated english speaking server and don't even bother to try to speak english, then thats what i consider to be rude/unnacceptable behaviour. Its no different to joining a french or german server etc, and refusing to speak those languages, sadly its this type of behaviour though that i am seeing more often, thankfully one thing games do tend to have is the 'ignore' option. Its probably comparable to people who go on holiday to a foreign country, they don't speak the language so, they foolishly speak louder and slower in order to make themselves understood, as if that made a difference, which basically is treating people as if their stupid because they don't understand you, its rude behaviour.
Originally posted by Phry it doesnt bother me if they join the server, or if they can't speak english very well, but if people join a designated english speaking server and don't even bother to try to speak english, then thats what i consider to be rude/unnacceptable behaviour. Its no different to joining a french or german server etc, and refusing to speak those languages, sadly its this type of behaviour though that i am seeing more often, thankfully one thing games do tend to have is the 'ignore' option. Its probably comparable to people who go on holiday to a foreign country, they don't speak the language so, they foolishly speak louder and slower in order to make themselves understood, as if that made a difference, which basically is treating people as if their stupid because they don't understand you, its rude behaviour.
I agree. I hears a story recently from a colleague of mine who'd recently moved to japan. He told me:
"Japan is beautiful and the people are so friendly, but make sure you take the time to learn japanese. If you stay there for a few months and haven't even made an effort to learn the language you will aptly learn how quickly the locals will turn on you..."
It's not just in America. Most of the world feels the same way. Speakinga another language, though it may be fun, is stressful and actual work. Your brain is likely thinking in your native language and hot-translating on the fly into the language you are trying to speak. Even those who are fluent in a second or third language still have to stop and think. Speaking in your native tongue is just more natural and actually fairly relaxing. It'd be nice if those around you could do the same.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
The problem here isn't really individuals of non-native language to that server, it's when they hijack a server en-masse for some reason. The spanish and italians are rather infamous for doing this, though this is really just because the devs don't provide them with a server of their own. This usually forces the native players on a given server to all transfer off as the hijackers refuse to speak english and make general gameplay a nightmare for any english speakers on that server.
As long as a player makes an effort to speak the language designated for that server then I don't mind how well they speak it. I can be patient and deal with that, hell I'll even welcome the opportunity to play with people from around the world. It's when they completely ignore the server designation that bothers me.
FFXI is a unique case for this issue though as the servers are all international with an auto-translate tool that facilitates basic essential communication. A few players developed a habit of forming parties restricted to a specific language (JP only) but I still frequently found myself playing alongside the Japanese and having no real difficulty communicating thanks to the auto-translate tool. Personally I'd be quite happy if every game worked like that as it has the added benefit of servers being active at all times with no specific peak hours.
In America, at least, the overall attitude is that everyone else in the world knows, or should know English. "We" expect everything to cater to us, including world-wide gaming. Many Americans cannot fathom that the world is not America. Look at how we handle international relations. We apply our own Bill of Rights, our laws to everyone else in the world
In my experience, I often find that non-native English speakers (writers) are much better with the language than us native speakers
When I see in chat someone using a language that is not English, I am reminded about how far reaching the playerbase is. I fondly recall one of the members in my EQ guild was from Denmark. I was flabbergasted! And intrigued His English was better than many native speakers'.
I do not speak another language, though I have tried, and am envious of people who can.
This is, without a doubt, the most ignroant thing I've ever read on these forums. And that's saying a LOT!
Why is it that Americans are demonized for asking that people who come to OUR country, speak OUR language? If I were to say, go to live in France, Spain, Morocco, etc. I'd have no problem with having to learn their language. It is after all, the language of the country I've chosen to live in. I'd make every attempt to learn it out of respect to them. I wouldn't expect them to cater to me, or print their street signs in English because myself or other immigrants might be inconvenienced by it. That is selfish, entitled behavior of the highest order. I'm the outsider, I am expected to adapt to THEIR laws and customs, not the other way around. COMMON SENSE PEOPLE.
The double standard that exists in the world when it comes to Americans is astounding. The American government and people have made every effort to make immigration to our country easy. We offer driver's license tests, voter's polls, and pretty much every state / federal document possible available in pretty much every possible language, and yet we are demonized for being 'intolerant'. We provide interpreters, and we allow people of certain ethnic groups to be photographed for their IDs with their religious head coverings (even with full-facial concealment, eliminating the whole point of a photo ID), although having a pic done with a baseball cap on for a US citizen is a no-no.
We give BILLIONS per year out in foreign aid, plus BILLIONS more to countries which have suffered natural disasters. How many countries have given aid to us for Sandy, or Katreina, or any natural disaster in recent years? ZERO. The attitude of other countries is, "Fuck you, you can pay for it. But hey, we'll take your money but still treat you like shit." Yet we still give out insane amounts of foreign aid.
We are one of the most, if not THE most, generous countries in the world. Yet still, all we get is scorn. We get jackasses like Bill Maher, telling us that despite all our generosity, that we're assholes.
How many millions of our men and women have we sent abroad, to die for the freedoms of people in other countries? And yet the only land we've EVER asked for is enough to bury those who will never return home.
I look on the people of my generation, and those who came after me with a head hung in shame. It's disgusting what the people of America have become. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would even stand while a procession bearing the flag walked by. We can remember the Big Mac song, but not the pledge of alleigance. Hell, we have a president who won't even hold his hand over his heart for it... (and got re-elected too!), yet the crippled veteran will do his damnedest to rise up out of his wheelchair to honor the flag which stands for what he fought.
Bottom line, many of you people make me SICK. I know some ignorant mod here, not wanting the truth around, will peobably ban me. Well, sir, if you're going to do that, you may as well do it permanently. This may be my last post on these forums, but god damn it if it makesw just ONE person think, it was worth it.
And no, I have no problem with non-native speakers on my server, or in my country. Like the wonderful Chinese couple who immigrated here a couple years ago to make delicious food, as long as they're making an effort, I don't mind them at all. In fact, I encourage them.
Welcome to the land of the free, friends. Happy to have you
*slow clap - applause* Very well said. And I can agree on every point. It's unnecessary the amount of badmouthing the U.S. gets for just about everything and everyday we still turn the other cheek and hand out Billions to others in need. Then when we ask someone to speak english if they plan to live here the world is up in arms calling us everything from intolerant to racist.
All of this points back to the main point of this thread and to both of our opinions; If you're on an English/American server then please speak english or at least make an effort. I'm sure if we went to your country you'd be pretty pissed if we decided not to learn your language at all and sit there for years spouting our miserable english; filthying up your ears.
Sheesh.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
Comments
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I've never been on a server or game where it was actually an issue. I always thought it was kind of cool when another language showed up in chat.
I do remember when Blizzard did something to their server locations and a bunch of Portuguese speaking people showed up on one or two servers. It created an issue because there was no majority population so it became the people speaking English (or whatever they were speaking, might have been Spanish) versus the people speaking Portuguese. Blizzard finally setup some Portuguese servers, which I think alleviated the issue, but it was a problem.
I think it's only an issue when people are left to decide for themselves what everyone should speak and there's no majority language on a server.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
As long as it doesnt interupt the flow of the game, Im good with it.
If you have to stop everything because of communication Issue, It's disruptive.
I think as long as the person speaks the native tongue it's not an issue. I've had friends from various European countries and Australia and consider myself richer for the experience.
One drawback though is the use of voice programs like Teamspeak or ventrilo. While accents are not really noticeable in text, trying to understand instructions during a raid when everyone has very thick accents is difficult. I remember one of my buddies joining an australian guild and so I joined. Even though they were speaking English, it was really hard for me to understand them at times, especially in the heat of the moment when accents can sometimes get even thicker. The other problem was the time of day they were typically on was different. But that's what I agreed to when I signed on, and they were a nice group of people.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Voice chat causes more problem than text, but you still don't need a degree in English to take part in a raid conversation. Our German guy in one MMO was hesitant to speak as he was worried about his pronunciation. Once he got passed that we had him leading raids.
So the importance of speaking the server language is about the ability to take part in what’s on offer.
As for the cultural thing, if you are playing a MMO you are almost certainly in a country where "culture" is determined by the media. I don't think culture exists anymore, we now only really only have media fashion, which becomes more alike the world over day by day. So I am not sure what cultural differences could be a problem.
I like this post. I am personally a french canadian, and when I play with my friends it is like someone said : I will speak in english in every common/general/trade/party chat. I will talk in french sometimes ,but in whispers.
I personally hate when other french people ( my kind , i guess ) Speak french over general chat, or any other language. Most game offers servers for em, so if they really want it they can join them.
I play wow a lot and it is getting really annoying to be queued with portugese players, mostly because they do not even know how to speak english and that they queue 2 or 3 together and keep spamming party chat with portugese text, that is really annoying
I have nothing against a person from another country joins my guild. We had several from denmark, australia, germany, and holland in our guild.
Almost allof them speak English very well.
The problem I have is with the one guy from France, who types in guld chat in French, who speaks in ventrillo in French. I don't k now how to speak French, oh and he does speak english however broken as bad as it is. I can understand his broken English even as bad as it is.
I don't discrimanate against anybody from other places, just please talk to me in a language I can understand, otherwise I do get a bit irritated. If I cant understand your needs, I cant help you, nor do I understand you.
The only time that I've felt racist when dealing with videogames is against the french. They keep going on about how rouges are OP and that ticks me off. How can a color be OP!!!
Other than that, I am always willing to treat any player fairly and respectfully.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
I have no problem with people from various countries being on the same server. I can see where grouping might be an issue if there are language barriers, but if the servers are populated enough then hopefully people will be able to find others that speak the same language for the purpose of grouping. If I'm aware of groups or guilds that speak the same language, I will try to communicate the information with the person, or at least give the information on how to find others that speak their language. As far as people speaking their native language in open chat, I have no problem with it. I've met people from other countries through MMOs and I find it a fun way to learn about other places/cultures. For those who are just there to play the game, there should be plenty of people for them to group with that people who are "non-native" shouldn't interfer in any way with them playing a game. If they do have issues with it, I hope they are making sure that the game they are playing and the company that created it are American based.
(edit to clarify: not saying that American games are or should be "english only," but if someone is going to have an opinion of "if you come to my server, you need to speak my language," then they need to realize that if a game is created by a company from a country where english is not the native language, the reason that game exist in english and has an english server is the game was translated rather than expecting people to learn their language to play their game).
Individuals are rarely a problem. The biggest issue I have seen is when a group of people from a given country join a server and they become very insular and region-proud. This can happen with US players on non-US servers, but it's especially common when a game has a global server and the game becomes popular in a relatively small country. To not pick on any given nation, I'll use the fictional dictatorship of Dr. Doom, Latveria, as an example.
On a given server, there will be a few major communications hubs. The largest of these will have at least one group from 12:00-02:00 Latverian time either conversing in Latverian or gathering a Latverian group for something. They will typically shun non-Latverians unless it is someone of a particular skillset that they do not have a member covering already. If you are brought in to a Latverian group, rest assured that unless loot is a dice roll, you get nothing. If a Latverian appears with your skill set, you will be removed forcibly without explanation to make room for them. If you stay in the party so they can have two people performing a role, you will be considered the "worse" one regardless of your ability. A finely honed Latverian group that recognizes talent may accept a skilled non-Latverian playing a highly undesirable role. In this case, the Latverian who was rejected in favor of you will become your personal enemy for as long as they can remember your name. They will also drag your name in the mud amongst any other Latverian they can, so unless you have the fortune of joining with a very elite and influential group, you will get unexpected jeers and rejections from unrelated people, simply because you were good at what you do.
If a Latverian wishes to join your group or guild, you will either not know they are Latverian as they are embarrassed by the behavior of fellow Latverians, or they will be so bottom of the barrel that Latverian groups and guilds reject them. They will join pick-up groups freely, boasting of their own contributions and blaming everyone else for all wrongs. They especially loathe healers and buffers who are not glued to them as top priority.
If Latverians are a small faction, they will often become more insular over time and eventually become invisible. If they are a significant minority, there is a real chance that the game masters will need to intervene at some point to prevent hostility from spiraling out of control. This largely depends on whether one faction makes up a disproportionate amount of the game's revenues. If Latverians are 10% of the population and 1% of the revenues, they may find that global chat becomes English-only for a global server, or that Latverian abuse/spamming results in bans far quicker than usual until the Latverian community disintegrates. If they are 90% of the revenues, the server is effectively Latverian and others are merely permitted to play on it.
If there is any form of massive server-wide PvP, Latverians will almost always congregate to form a PvP group of their own. While their numbers are small in absolute terms, the fact that nearly all Latverians will be drawn to this group means they either have the benefit of high numbers or free pick amongst the best of Latverian players rather than fighting to recruit on a more open field. In cases like this, the only thing Latverians hate more than non-Latverians are non-Latverian healers/buffers, non-Latverians who beat them in PvP, and worst of all, non-Latverian healers/buffers who beat them in PvP.
The worst part is that many of these Latverian players are individually likable. When gathered together, national/linguistic pride leads them to be much less likable. Somehow, the most influential Latverian groups will be led by some of the most insular Latverians of all. If you met them on some other game with no Latverian population to speak of, you'd never know it because they're an entirely different person.
All of this is just a regrettable function of bad communication, negative feedback loops, and often a Latverian gaming culture which is not as skilled as the majority gaming cultures on a server. The most common solution proposed by both sides is to have a dedicated Latverian server, but this is not always feasible. If the problem is tackled head on early and there are enough people who speak both English and Latverian, the communities can get along together reasonably well. If there is minimal language overlap and more cultural differences, there will be trouble between Latverians and non-Latverians.
The above comes from my experiences on a number of MMOs. "Latveria" could be replaced by any of a dozen different countries in that case. Sometimes things smooth out, sometimes Latveria gets a server, sometimes Latverians are driven off, sometimes the server becomes de-facto Latverian. The first result is really the only one that doesn't leave hard feelings, but the second is quite acceptable if it is practical.
I've been on all sides of this equation. I've been the Latverian on a non-global non-US server. I've spoken enough Latverian to hang out with Latverians casually, but I was never really one of them. I've welcomed a few straggling Latverians and made friends albeit poor communication left things distant. I've talked with Latverians who just had no interest in assimilating to the general culture and were just not terribly pleasant. I've dealt with actively noxious Latverians. I've supported well-meaning Latverians. I've shunned invasive Latverians. In the end, it's just a problem of human communication, gaming cultures, and human cultures. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
When I'm dealing with a Latverian on my server, my biggest dislike is when there's a bright [LATVERIA] tag or guild name hanging out, screaming "I AM SO LATVERIAN!" as if it were a call to form a Latverian server within the global server. Worse yet is if your character is named LATV3RIA. Other than that, I like seeing a Latverian contingent that gets along well with the global majority. Adds flavor to the community and Latverians of different nationalities can be pretty interesting sorts with a lot to share. I can't really blame Latverians for wanting to play with others who speak their language, but if I can communicate with them well and they actively try, that makes the entire thing more enjoyable. Truth be told, native English speakers with bad English bother me far more than Latverians with limited English. The latter group is actually putting forth effort, and I have to appreciate that.
Side note- Gold farmers are not included as Latverians. Every gold farmer I've met has either spoken to virtually nobody and is engaged wholly in the task at hand, or they're quiet but pleasant because they're under extreme pressure to perform well and can't afford a petulant kid in the majority hating on them and impeding their work. I pity their situation, the job is remarkably unpleasant. I don't like what gold farming does to a game, but I just buff those guys and wish them well anyway because seriously, that's a person trying to fill their stomach and sleep under a roof. Lashing out at them does nothing to the bosses who run the operation.
It's option B for me. There's always going to be a language barrier. They may know english, but it's so poor of a quality that it's almost a different language entirely. This can be very frustrating in team oriented games like League of Legends. Nothing is more irritating than joining a game only to find out half or atleast one person on your team speaks spanish, or is brazillian, or any other spanish speaking heritage. Even worse when they're playing an important role like jungler or solo top.You can't even insult them for playing poorly because they won't understand you.
But what is more aggrivating than that is when your whole team is speaking english at one point and then suddenly two guys find out they're from the same country, or that they both speak spanish and decide that they're going to communicate in spanish only. They end up talking only to each other the whole time and the team suffers for it.
So yes it is a problem when non-natives join our servers. There are different region/country/language based servers for a very good reason. Nothing to do with race IMO, though some opinions may vary.
"I'm not a racist, but....[insert racist comment]"
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
Because you're a game developer right? And I'm sure you know the premise behind game design like the back of your hand. Perhaps you should write a book about it.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
I agree. I hears a story recently from a colleague of mine who'd recently moved to japan. He told me:
"Japan is beautiful and the people are so friendly, but make sure you take the time to learn japanese. If you stay there for a few months and haven't even made an effort to learn the language you will aptly learn how quickly the locals will turn on you..."
It's not just in America. Most of the world feels the same way. Speakinga another language, though it may be fun, is stressful and actual work. Your brain is likely thinking in your native language and hot-translating on the fly into the language you are trying to speak. Even those who are fluent in a second or third language still have to stop and think. Speaking in your native tongue is just more natural and actually fairly relaxing. It'd be nice if those around you could do the same.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.
The problem here isn't really individuals of non-native language to that server, it's when they hijack a server en-masse for some reason. The spanish and italians are rather infamous for doing this, though this is really just because the devs don't provide them with a server of their own. This usually forces the native players on a given server to all transfer off as the hijackers refuse to speak english and make general gameplay a nightmare for any english speakers on that server.
As long as a player makes an effort to speak the language designated for that server then I don't mind how well they speak it. I can be patient and deal with that, hell I'll even welcome the opportunity to play with people from around the world. It's when they completely ignore the server designation that bothers me.
FFXI is a unique case for this issue though as the servers are all international with an auto-translate tool that facilitates basic essential communication. A few players developed a habit of forming parties restricted to a specific language (JP only) but I still frequently found myself playing alongside the Japanese and having no real difficulty communicating thanks to the auto-translate tool. Personally I'd be quite happy if every game worked like that as it has the added benefit of servers being active at all times with no specific peak hours.
*slow clap - applause* Very well said. And I can agree on every point. It's unnecessary the amount of badmouthing the U.S. gets for just about everything and everyday we still turn the other cheek and hand out Billions to others in need. Then when we ask someone to speak english if they plan to live here the world is up in arms calling us everything from intolerant to racist.
All of this points back to the main point of this thread and to both of our opinions; If you're on an English/American server then please speak english or at least make an effort. I'm sure if we went to your country you'd be pretty pissed if we decided not to learn your language at all and sit there for years spouting our miserable english; filthying up your ears.
Sheesh.
MMO's are the ark of the gaming world. Let it take us in new directions.