Originally posted by hapwned EQ1 is still going strong, but that's only due to the 9 expansions they have on it now. More content, new abilities, higher levels... in general, much more to do.
EQdead is dying. They closed, are closing over 20 servers because of low populations.
Why do people just lie to make a game look bad i wonder?
I quit in 2001 and looking at the EQ1 site now all the servers that were up when i left are all STILL there and a number of ones that i never saw before so must have been added after i left so if anything it has grown.
By telling such a easy to check lie you are only discrediting yourself is all since gasp people can check this with a click of a mouse
when WoW came out, people were saying it would die in 3 months. then 3 months passed and WoW is actually stronger than before. now they say they will die in other 3 months. what i see is a 100000 beta applications in 2 hours from the chinese and the Taiwan launch.
Sure, the population will decrease (at least locally, world wide is gonna increase a lot with the taiwan and china launches but dying? oh i do not believe so.
Or at least, WoW will die, eventually, but i think before it, will go quite a bunch of other EQ clones that didn´reached WoW success.
And by the way, if you think of it, the market is filled with more "alive" games than dead one. Earth & beyond and motor city online are the only 2 games that closed forever of the ones released (ok... maybe you can count Meridian 59 also but now is back again isn´t it?)
Of the rest, all of them, more or less, survive. AO is still there, DaoC is surely there, even AC2 is still ,barely there (and that is a miracle with that..... really really bad game). Horizons survived a company change and... is still there (almost a miracle as AC2 even if i hope they make now it better). UO, EQ and AC are all still there.
So in the end, no i do not exactly think that WoW, but more generally also CoH, EQ2 and the "new" mmorpgs, will fail anytime soon.
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
The counter-argument seemed to ignore the points grimwell was trying to make:
Most players in World of Warcraft have no reason to engage in long-term socialization. Without socialization, the main draw the game has always been the novelty of the game play.
If the only loyalty that players have to World of Warcraft is in the novelty of the game mechanic, this leaves it vulnerable on at least two very important fronts. The first front: once players grow bored of the game mechanic, theres no reason to hang around anymore. The second front: Players will be easily distracted by another game with better core mechanics.
A MMORPG cannot just be a game: When you start charging a subscription, youre promising it to be more than that. It has to genuinely interest players in investing time in it for meaningfully compelling reasons. World of Warcraft is far too trivialized, it's evident in the quick grind, the artificial world, and the punch-out trade skill system.
If I understand it correctly, the counter-argument is that WoW is going to retain its incredible subscription numbers by continually attracting new players. New to the game and new to the genre. Without a doubt, Blizzard has succeeded in attracting players, but I don't see any points that support it keeping its players in the long run.
For those of us who don't want to click on the link ():
Old School Online Oriented Slayers This includes Meridian 59, Everquest (A.k.a. EQLive), and Anarchy Online. These MMORPGs use Player versus Environment (usually NPCs to slay) as a primarily game play focus. What makes them Old School is that theres a general slowness to the pace of the game, a hidden turn based system that was originally meant to be somewhat 56k analog modem compatible. What puts them above and beyond an offline monster slaying game is an emphasis on socializing, often through forced or heavily encouraged grouping. In general, these games really focus on their being online, where the other categories may put the world or game first. This type of MMORPG is also renowned for long leveling treadmills. A recent successful example of this is Final Fantasy XI.
Virtual Worlds These are MMORPGs that were designed with a focus on creating a compellingly rich online virtual environment. In their ranks are Ultima Online, SWG, A Tale In The Desert, EVE, The Sims Online, and Second Life. Personalized content additions, such as housing and trade goods, are a constant theme, and this is used to create a self-perpetuating cycle of content. The big downside of this is not everybody is interested in building chairs, or whatever else that MMORPG would let you build. Though some examples are more game-like than others, you could say that this category is the least game-like of the MMORPGs, more digital "arts and craft" oriented.
New School Casual Friendly Slayers This New School category would not be possible were it not for the wide adaptation of broadband. These games are, at heart, just fast paced games with novel game play mechanics. Examples are Planetside, City of Heroes and World of Warcraft. Because a great deal of focus has been put on developing the game, theres often much less attention paid to the online component. All three games heavily support soloing in the name of casual play, and as a result many players choose to climb their way up in levels either entirely alone or with sparse grouping. In each example, complaints are levied by some players against these types of games that they lack that certain something that makes them worth playing in the long term. This is partly made up for by patched content, which can never seem to come fast enough.
I could care less what the report says. Once Guild Wars comes out fully WoW,CoH,PS,EQ2,etc. will al be put to shame and they deserve it. Any game that is as bland and mainstream as these games needs to be doomed, for having you to pay $15 to play a damn game that never changes in anyway. Also, I am a very big WoW-racist and I hope all who play soon realize how stupid of a game it is. This has been a word of wisdom from myself and many others.
no long term socialization in WoW? are speaking of the same game?
Cause i see a loads of guilds around me... all the time. i am in one and i can tell you i did socialize with them, long termly. I suppose other guilds works in the same time and are not empty chat room in which occasionally somebody say "i need a sword"
Come on now, Socializations in MMorpg, mostly, come from Guilds/Clans or how they are called around. Groups are always temporary affairs and even if you can pick up couple of friends from the random groups you form, the most of your people will be in that guild you are in and maybe the allies of such a guild.
And to the last poster i can tell: i can't understand nor support who is racist. Real racist is very bad, but being "racist" on a game is.... so low... but so low that i have no words to describe it but that i am disgusted by you and your post and i hope it was all said in "good" joke or sarcasm.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I'm not really into much of the opinions stated in that link which accounts for almost all of the MMORPG's out there.
I'd have to say that the one MMORPG that almost came to MMO-A(Action)-RPG is RYL. Even if it is a click and hold to attack, the action is pretty fast paced (although repetitive).
Originally posted by Veragon I could care less what the report says. Once Guild Wars comes out fully WoW,CoH,PS,EQ2,etc. will al be put to shame and they deserve it. Any game that is as bland and mainstream as these games needs to be doomed, for having you to pay $15 to play a damn game that never changes in anyway. Also, I am a very big WoW-racist and I hope all who play soon realize how stupid of a game it is. This has been a word of wisdom from myself and many others.
LOL. I like to have a good hearty laugh at all you Guild Wars nuts who act like you've discovered an amazing, ground-breaking new concept in the world of gaming.
If you'd come armed with even a fraction of a clue, you'd see the obvious fact that Guild Wars is nothing more than a PvP orientated MMORPG with all the time consuming stuff removed wholesale. While this is certainly a winning recipe for a succesful game, it's not breaking from the mainstream... It is attempting to BE the mainstream.
Apart from the fact that its fans seem so oblivious to such blatant obviousness, it's a pretty decent game and although it's not for me it's gearing up to be a big success.
The other thing that makes me laugh till I look like the guy from Scanners is the fact that a bunch of EQ2 fans who post on this site who've done nothing but drone on about how WoW is for kids are now planning to play Guild Wars. It doesn't take a gaming industry guru to surmise that if WoW is for kids, Guild Wars is for newborns.
First of all, I have played World Of Warcraft, I played it for months. It is a very stupid and mainstream game that has nothing new added to it except a shitload of spawning and quests. Guild Wars IS setting up a new MMORPG style. You obviously have no clue what YOUR talking about because you are probably in your late teens and think you know everything. I've been playing RPG's since RPG's became themselves.
Does WoW allow you to play with everybody in the world in the same game environment? No. Does WoW have a STREAM update system? No. Does WoW have that stupid, "Lets level for 170 hours so I can wear my Cloak Of Faggism?" Yes. Does WoW involve skill in any way, shape, or form? No.
Does Guild Wars have a great community where people will help each other and talk civilized? Yes. Does Guild Wars involve skill in any way, shape, or form? Hell Yes. Does Guild Wars have that idiotic spawn camping and faggot looters? No.
In general, just so I don't have to keep going on and on about how ignorant some people are...*HINT*
WoW will last maybe another 2 years if that. It was a very mainstream game, but it had no groundbreaking effects on the MMORPG industry as Guild Wars.
People have the right to there opinions, and I have the right to say there wrong. Guild Wars > World Of Warcraft; plain and simple.
Originally posted by Veragon First of all, I have played World Of Warcraft, I played it for months. It is a very stupid and mainstream game that has nothing new added to it except a shitload of spawning and quests. Guild Wars IS setting up a new MMORPG style. You obviously have no clue what YOUR talking about because you are probably in your late teens and think you know everything. I've been playing RPG's since RPG's became themselves. Does WoW allow you to play with everybody in the world in the same game environment? No. Does WoW have a STREAM update system? No. Does WoW have that stupid, "Lets level for 170 hours so I can wear my Cloak Of Faggism?" Yes. Does WoW involve skill in any way, shape, or form? No. Does Guild Wars have a great community where people will help each other and talk civilized? Yes. Does Guild Wars involve skill in any way, shape, or form? Hell Yes. Does Guild Wars have that idiotic spawn camping and faggot looters? No.In general, just so I don't have to keep going on and on about how ignorant some people are...*HINT* WoW will last maybe another 2 years if that. It was a very mainstream game, but it had no groundbreaking effects on the MMORPG industry as Guild Wars. People have the right to there opinions, and I have the right to say there wrong. Guild Wars > World Of Warcraft; plain and simple.
You make the convenient (and incorrect) assumption that I'm in my late teens, then go on to spew out one of the most childish posts I've ever read.
Interesting debating style.
I find it hard to believe you played WoW for months given your damningly negative opinion of it. Such an opinion would have caused anyone with a fully functioning brain to stop playing within the first month, and that's being generous.
If I'm right, then you're one of the hundreds of thousands of people who bought into the "WoW is for kids" ideology without even playing the game, and your opinion can be discarded as uninformed and irrelevant.
And if I'm wrong, then you played a game you didn't like for several months and can only be of below average intelligence, as your fumbling attempts at grammar and syntax suggest.
Enjoy Everquest meets Counterstrike... ahem... Guild Wars...... And remember to chose the best eight of your abilities before you go into battle. You wouldn't want to tax your brain too much.
His topic is three pages because World of Warcraft is at the moment the most popular MMORPG, and anything anywhere in life that ever gets to the top will always have people trying to bring it down from that pedestal.
If World of Warcraft wasn't a Blizzard game and wasn't on top right now, I really doubt that anyone would be talking about it being "doomed". It's successfull, and therefore people want to bring it down.
From an unbias point of view, I personally don't feel World of Warcraft really deserves to be a full rating point ahead of it's rival games on this website, however it's definately not on course to be "Doomed". Lets face it, it's a good solid well made MMORPG. But yes, in reality there are also many other titles out there probably equally as good as World of Warcraft if not better. But it has been hugely hyped, and like any Blizzard game will continue to have many people play for many years to come.
In the coming few months and years I can see it heading down a similar course to it's predecessor Warcraft III. It had the same hype and initial boom as World of Warcraft, but in the end it didn't bring the StarCraft community over as many thought it would.
So probably not any continued exponential growth for World of Warcraft, and indeed it might slow down as games like Guild Wars come out on the market. However it's about the furthest thing from heading down the path to Doom!
Originally posted by Veragon First of all, I have played World Of Warcraft, I played it for months. It is a very stupid and mainstream game that has nothing new added to it except a shitload of spawning and quests. Guild Wars IS setting up a new MMORPG style. You obviously have no clue what YOUR talking about because you are probably in your late teens and think you know everything. I've been playing RPG's since RPG's became themselves. Does WoW allow you to play with everybody in the world in the same game environment? No. Does WoW have a STREAM update system? No. Does WoW have that stupid, "Lets level for 170 hours so I can wear my Cloak Of Faggism?" Yes. Does WoW involve skill in any way, shape, or form? No. Does Guild Wars have a great community where people will help each other and talk civilized? Yes. Does Guild Wars involve skill in any way, shape, or form? Hell Yes. Does Guild Wars have that idiotic spawn camping and faggot looters? No.In general, just so I don't have to keep going on and on about how ignorant some people are...*HINT* WoW will last maybe another 2 years if that. It was a very mainstream game, but it had no groundbreaking effects on the MMORPG industry as Guild Wars. People have the right to there opinions, and I have the right to say there wrong. Guild Wars > World Of Warcraft; plain and simple.
Does Guild Wars have a persistant world? No Is Guild Wars a real MMORPG? No
WoW will have one of the biggest downfalls every in MMORPG history. I believe by this time next year they will be looking to combine or cluster servers. On the other hand, it will still remain a very large and popular game. Many who are playing it are newbs, and more often than not, people remember their first MMORPG very fondly. Even if they drop their subscriber base by 50% or more in their first year they will still be huge.
As for GW, not sure how you will measure it's success. I guess the only way will be by how many keep buying expansions since everyone who buys the game will technically be a "subscriber" forever. I think it will do well, but I think it will end up boring many people since it has even less long term substance at this time than WoW. On the other hand, since it is free, there is no harm on keeping it on your comp and revisitting the game from time to time. No $15 a month to go back and see your old friends or have some fun.
WoW will not last much longer, I give it a year before people realize that the addition of Battlegrounds will not be enough. It is truely a game for people who are new to MMORPG's. If you are knew to the genre, then by all means, get the game, it's great for new people. But the more hardcore MMORPG player will want something more, which WoW cannot offer.
And no one should ever compare Guild Wars to WoW. Guild Wars is not even a true MMORPG, they are completely diferent,
Originally posted by Brunel WoW will not last much longer, I give it a year before people realize that the addition of Battlegrounds will not be enough. It is truely a game for people who are new to MMORPG's. If you are knew to the genre, then by all means, get the game, it's great for new people. But the more hardcore MMORPG player will want something more, which WoW cannot offer.And no one should ever compare Guild Wars to WoW. Guild Wars is not even a true MMORPG, they are completely diferent,
I can't wait to quote this thread in a few months time when WoW's subs have broken two million.
Hey if you all can magically see into the future to bolster your argument, so can I.
Originally posted by firemagic I can't wait to quote this thread in a few months time when WoW's subs have broken two million.
You should read the General forums on WoW's site sometime. There are constantlly players posting about why they are leaving because there is no content for a serious RPGer. And people who are not posting about leaving are posting about nerfs, overpowered classes, faults in the honour system, and many more complaints. The game will fail, and when it does I won't be the least bit surprised. Im just glad this game was a present, because if I bought it with my own money I would be very angry.
Originally posted by Brunel Originally posted by firemagic I can't wait to quote this thread in a few months time when WoW's subs have broken two million.
You should read the General forums on WoW's site sometime. There are constantlly players posting about why they are leaving because there is no content for a serious RPGer. And people who are not posting about leaving are posting about nerfs, overpowered classes, faults in the honour system, and many more complaints. The game will fail, and when it does I won't be the least bit surprised. Im just glad this game was a present, because if I bought it with my own money I would be very angry.
So you base how good a game is doing based on their general forums? Well I suggest you don't play any mmo's or rts games then.
Does Guild Wars have a persistant world? No Is Guild Wars a real MMORPG? No
I think it will do well, but I think it will end up boring many people since it has even less long term substance at this time than WoW.
I am just curious what you define as a "real MMORPG"?
As far as being a "Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game", it would seem to me Guild Wars stays more true to this denomination than any other MMORPG yet released. Guild Wars, unlike any other game that I know of, is played entirely in one gaming world. Most other MMORPG's, including WoW, have segregated servers with entirely different groups of players playing different instances of the same world.
Guild Wars, also unlike most other MMORPG's, has more involved campaign style role playing elements to their quests, making it feel like your actually doing something in the world, as opposed to collecting items to bring back and fourth to different NPC's.
It seems to me that Guild Wars takes both the "Massive Multiplayer" and "Online Role Playing Game" elements of MMORPG'S to a whole new level. So I'm not sure why some people are saying it isn't a "true MMORPG"?
I also disagree with your comment "I think it will do well, but I think it will end up boring many people since it has even less long term substance at this time than WoW".
True, from what I've heard, you will be able to achieve level 20 in Guild Wars in about 20-30 hours of play time. So I suppose for those enjoy spending hours climbing a leveling ladder they may decide the game is not for them. At the same time Guild Wars has a mechanic based on Player vs. Player competitive gaming (rewarding your skill as a player and team, as opposed to having a higher level character). If one looks at any competitive game, be it Half Life or StarCraft, the reason these games are still being played by millions, is because of that mechanic of competitive online game play. The games themselves can be completed in a weekend, but the competitive element of playing against intelligent human beings creates game that can last years beyond it's release date.
The counter-argument seemed to ignore the points grimwell was trying to make:
Most players in World of Warcraft have no reason to engage in long-term socialization. Without socialization, the main draw the game has always been the novelty of the game play. If the only loyalty that players have to World of Warcraft is in the novelty of the game mechanic, this leaves it vulnerable on at least two very important fronts. The first front: once players grow bored of the game mechanic, theres no reason to hang around anymore. The second front: Players will be easily distracted by another game with better core mechanics. A MMORPG cannot just be a game: When you start charging a subscription, youre promising it to be more than that. It has to genuinely interest players in investing time in it for meaningfully compelling reasons. World of Warcraft is far too trivialized, it's evident in the quick grind, the artificial world, and the punch-out trade skill system. If I understand it correctly, the counter-argument is that WoW is going to retain its incredible subscription numbers by continually attracting new players. New to the game and new to the genre. Without a doubt, Blizzard has succeeded in attracting players, but I don't see any points that support it keeping its players in the long run.
Damn, that was a very good counter-arguement. Very well arguement + very well counter-arguement. I must say people take games way to seriously these days...damn the PC.
Originally posted by Barbossa I am just curious what you define as a "real MMORPG"?
I want to walk across the virtual world from one city to the next while avoiding dangers. How do you propose I do that in GW? No persistant world = not a real MMORPG.
That said, I don't think the game will be a failure or anything. The graphics are great, and after purchase, you will always be able to play it any time you like without having to fork out $$$ in order to reactivate your account. But being an online game where people can play together doesn't make it an MMORPG.
Originally posted by Barbossa I am just curious what you define as a "real MMORPG"?
I want to walk across the virtual world from one city to the next while avoiding dangers. How do you propose I do that in GW? No persistant world = not a real MMORPG.
You are able to walk across the virtual world from city to the next in Guild Wars. You can also walk across the virtual world in a game like Morrowind, which is not online at all. But I think what you are getting at is the instance questing, where the game takes your party from an outpost and puts you into your own instance of the quest?
As far as being persistant, players are put into ONE game, different than other mmo's where there are multiple servers running different isntances of the world. The only time the world changes is when guilds win an event or similar happening, and then using the streaming technology the world changes for everyone based on what that guild has done.
Originally posted by Brunel Originally posted by firemagic I can't wait to quote this thread in a few months time when WoW's subs have broken two million.
You should read the General forums on WoW's site sometime. There are constantlly players posting about why they are leaving because there is no content for a serious RPGer. And people who are not posting about leaving are posting about nerfs, overpowered classes, faults in the honour system, and many more complaints. The game will fail, and when it does I won't be the least bit surprised. Im just glad this game was a present, because if I bought it with my own money I would be very angry.
OK, so now that you've driven your opinion home (and it is an opinion, however many times you state it as fact), tell us... Which is the right game for a serious RPGer?
I was hoping whoever read this topic took it with a grain of salt.
Please, remember this is just a discussion. I play WoW myself - I don't want WoW to fail anymore than the next person. But given its current incarnation - I couldn't imagine still playing it next year. Perhaps battlegrounds will offer something that keeps me around, all the better!
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Robert is Richard's brother and president of NCSoft America.
Why do people just lie to make a game look bad i wonder?
I quit in 2001 and looking at the EQ1 site now all the servers that were up when i left are all STILL there and a number of ones that i never saw before so must have been added after i left so if anything it has grown.
By telling such a easy to check lie you are only discrediting yourself is all since gasp people can check this with a click of a mouse
when WoW came out, people were saying it would die in 3 months. then 3 months passed and WoW is actually stronger than before. now they say they will die in other 3 months. what i see is a 100000 beta applications in 2 hours from the chinese and the Taiwan launch.
Sure, the population will decrease (at least locally, world wide is gonna increase a lot with the taiwan and china launches but dying? oh i do not believe so.
Or at least, WoW will die, eventually, but i think before it, will go quite a bunch of other EQ clones that didn´reached WoW success.
And by the way, if you think of it, the market is filled with more "alive" games than dead one. Earth & beyond and motor city online are the only 2 games that closed forever of the ones released (ok... maybe you can count Meridian 59 also but now is back again isn´t it?)
Of the rest, all of them, more or less, survive. AO is still there, DaoC is surely there, even AC2 is still ,barely there (and that is a miracle with that..... really really bad game). Horizons survived a company change and... is still there (almost a miracle as AC2 even if i hope they make now it better). UO, EQ and AC are all still there.
So in the end, no i do not exactly think that WoW, but more generally also CoH, EQ2 and the "new" mmorpgs, will fail anytime soon.
Have a nice day
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
The counter-argument seemed to ignore the points grimwell was trying to make:
If I understand it correctly, the counter-argument is that WoW is going to retain its incredible subscription numbers by continually attracting new players. New to the game and new to the genre. Without a doubt, Blizzard has succeeded in attracting players, but I don't see any points that support it keeping its players in the long run.
I could care less what the report says. Once Guild Wars comes out fully WoW,CoH,PS,EQ2,etc. will al be put to shame and they deserve it. Any game that is as bland and mainstream as these games needs to be doomed, for having you to pay $15 to play a damn game that never changes in anyway. Also, I am a very big WoW-racist and I hope all who play soon realize how stupid of a game it is. This has been a word of wisdom from myself and many others.
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no long term socialization in WoW? are speaking of the same game?
Cause i see a loads of guilds around me... all the time. i am in one and i can tell you i did socialize with them, long termly. I suppose other guilds works in the same time and are not empty chat room in which occasionally somebody say "i need a sword"
Come on now, Socializations in MMorpg, mostly, come from Guilds/Clans or how they are called around. Groups are always temporary affairs and even if you can pick up couple of friends from the random groups you form, the most of your people will be in that guild you are in and maybe the allies of such a guild.
And to the last poster i can tell: i can't understand nor support who is racist. Real racist is very bad, but being "racist" on a game is.... so low... but so low that i have no words to describe it but that i am disgusted by you and your post and i hope it was all said in "good" joke or sarcasm.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I'm not really into much of the opinions stated in that link which accounts for almost all of the MMORPG's out there.
I'd have to say that the one MMORPG that almost came to MMO-A(Action)-RPG is RYL. Even if it is a click and hold to attack, the action is pretty fast paced (although repetitive).
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LOL. I like to have a good hearty laugh at all you Guild Wars nuts who act like you've discovered an amazing, ground-breaking new concept in the world of gaming.
If you'd come armed with even a fraction of a clue, you'd see the obvious fact that Guild Wars is nothing more than a PvP orientated MMORPG with all the time consuming stuff removed wholesale. While this is certainly a winning recipe for a succesful game, it's not breaking from the mainstream... It is attempting to BE the mainstream.
Apart from the fact that its fans seem so oblivious to such blatant obviousness, it's a pretty decent game and although it's not for me it's gearing up to be a big success.
The other thing that makes me laugh till I look like the guy from Scanners is the fact that a bunch of EQ2 fans who post on this site who've done nothing but drone on about how WoW is for kids are now planning to play Guild Wars. It doesn't take a gaming industry guru to surmise that if WoW is for kids, Guild Wars is for newborns.
Oh, and on topic... WoW? Doomed? LOL!
First of all, I have played World Of Warcraft, I played it for months. It is a very stupid and mainstream game that has nothing new added to it except a shitload of spawning and quests. Guild Wars IS setting up a new MMORPG style. You obviously have no clue what YOUR talking about because you are probably in your late teens and think you know everything. I've been playing RPG's since RPG's became themselves.
Does WoW allow you to play with everybody in the world in the same game environment? No.
Does WoW have a STREAM update system? No.
Does WoW have that stupid, "Lets level for 170 hours so I can wear my Cloak Of Faggism?" Yes.
Does WoW involve skill in any way, shape, or form? No.
Does Guild Wars have a great community where people will help each other and talk civilized? Yes.
Does Guild Wars involve skill in any way, shape, or form? Hell Yes.
Does Guild Wars have that idiotic spawn camping and faggot looters? No.
In general, just so I don't have to keep going on and on about how ignorant some people are...*HINT*
WoW will last maybe another 2 years if that. It was a very mainstream game, but it had no groundbreaking effects on the MMORPG industry as Guild Wars.
People have the right to there opinions, and I have the right to say there wrong. Guild Wars > World Of Warcraft; plain and simple.
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You make the convenient (and incorrect) assumption that I'm in my late teens, then go on to spew out one of the most childish posts I've ever read.
Interesting debating style.
I find it hard to believe you played WoW for months given your damningly negative opinion of it. Such an opinion would have caused anyone with a fully functioning brain to stop playing within the first month, and that's being generous.
If I'm right, then you're one of the hundreds of thousands of people who bought into the "WoW is for kids" ideology without even playing the game, and your opinion can be discarded as uninformed and irrelevant.
And if I'm wrong, then you played a game you didn't like for several months and can only be of below average intelligence, as your fumbling attempts at grammar and syntax suggest.
Enjoy Everquest meets Counterstrike... ahem... Guild Wars...... And remember to chose the best eight of your abilities before you go into battle. You wouldn't want to tax your brain too much.
His topic is three pages because World of Warcraft is at the moment the most popular MMORPG, and anything anywhere in life that ever gets to the top will always have people trying to bring it down from that pedestal.
If World of Warcraft wasn't a Blizzard game and wasn't on top right now, I really doubt that anyone would be talking about it being "doomed". It's successfull, and therefore people want to bring it down.
From an unbias point of view, I personally don't feel World of Warcraft really deserves to be a full rating point ahead of it's rival games on this website, however it's definately not on course to be "Doomed". Lets face it, it's a good solid well made MMORPG. But yes, in reality there are also many other titles out there probably equally as good as World of Warcraft if not better. But it has been hugely hyped, and like any Blizzard game will continue to have many people play for many years to come.
In the coming few months and years I can see it heading down a similar course to it's predecessor Warcraft III. It had the same hype and initial boom as World of Warcraft, but in the end it didn't bring the StarCraft community over as many thought it would.
So probably not any continued exponential growth for World of Warcraft, and indeed it might slow down as games like Guild Wars come out on the market. However it's about the furthest thing from heading down the path to Doom!
WoW is the first game in my school that people actually talk about.
kids I didnt even know play games are talking about it at school.
I actually get respect from kids I barely know cause I got a lvl 60 rogue =p.
WoW its crazy popular, I cant belive it right now.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Does Guild Wars have a persistant world? No
Is Guild Wars a real MMORPG? No
WoW will have one of the biggest downfalls every in MMORPG history. I believe by this time next year they will be looking to combine or cluster servers. On the other hand, it will still remain a very large and popular game. Many who are playing it are newbs, and more often than not, people remember their first MMORPG very fondly. Even if they drop their subscriber base by 50% or more in their first year they will still be huge.
As for GW, not sure how you will measure it's success. I guess the only way will be by how many keep buying expansions since everyone who buys the game will technically be a "subscriber" forever. I think it will do well, but I think it will end up boring many people since it has even less long term substance at this time than WoW. On the other hand, since it is free, there is no harm on keeping it on your comp and revisitting the game from time to time. No $15 a month to go back and see your old friends or have some fun.
WoW will not last much longer, I give it a year before people realize that the addition of Battlegrounds will not be enough. It is truely a game for people who are new to MMORPG's. If you are knew to the genre, then by all means, get the game, it's great for new people. But the more hardcore MMORPG player will want something more, which WoW cannot offer.
And no one should ever compare Guild Wars to WoW. Guild Wars is not even a true MMORPG, they are completely diferent,
I can't wait to quote this thread in a few months time when WoW's subs have broken two million.
Hey if you all can magically see into the future to bolster your argument, so can I.
You should read the General forums on WoW's site sometime. There are constantlly players posting about why they are leaving because there is no content for a serious RPGer. And people who are not posting about leaving are posting about nerfs, overpowered classes, faults in the honour system, and many more complaints. The game will fail, and when it does I won't be the least bit surprised. Im just glad this game was a present, because if I bought it with my own money I would be very angry.
You should read the General forums on WoW's site sometime. There are constantlly players posting about why they are leaving because there is no content for a serious RPGer. And people who are not posting about leaving are posting about nerfs, overpowered classes, faults in the honour system, and many more complaints. The game will fail, and when it does I won't be the least bit surprised. Im just glad this game was a present, because if I bought it with my own money I would be very angry.
So you base how good a game is doing based on their general forums? Well I suggest you don't play any mmo's or rts games then.
I think it will do well, but I think it will end up boring many people since it has even less long term substance at this time than WoW.
I am just curious what you define as a "real MMORPG"?
As far as being a "Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game", it would seem to me Guild Wars stays more true to this denomination than any other MMORPG yet released. Guild Wars, unlike any other game that I know of, is played entirely in one gaming world. Most other MMORPG's, including WoW, have segregated servers with entirely different groups of players playing different instances of the same world.
Guild Wars, also unlike most other MMORPG's, has more involved campaign style role playing elements to their quests, making it feel like your actually doing something in the world, as opposed to collecting items to bring back and fourth to different NPC's.
It seems to me that Guild Wars takes both the "Massive Multiplayer" and "Online Role Playing Game" elements of MMORPG'S to a whole new level. So I'm not sure why some people are saying it isn't a "true MMORPG"?
I also disagree with your comment "I think it will do well, but I think it will end up boring many people since it has even less long term substance at this time than WoW".
True, from what I've heard, you will be able to achieve level 20 in Guild Wars in about 20-30 hours of play time. So I suppose for those enjoy spending hours climbing a leveling ladder they may decide the game is not for them. At the same time Guild Wars has a mechanic based on Player vs. Player competitive gaming (rewarding your skill as a player and team, as opposed to having a higher level character). If one looks at any competitive game, be it Half Life or StarCraft, the reason these games are still being played by millions, is because of that mechanic of competitive online game play. The games themselves can be completed in a weekend, but the competitive element of playing against intelligent human beings creates game that can last years beyond it's release date.
I'm placing this in general discussion, because of his discussion of 3 categories of MMORPGs: http://www.grimwell.com/?action=fullnews&id=26
Here's a counter-argument to that article:
http://glideunderground.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=HTMLArticles&file=index&req=showcontent&id=91]
The counter-argument seemed to ignore the points grimwell was trying to make:
Most players in World of Warcraft have no reason to engage in long-term socialization. Without socialization, the main draw the game has always been the novelty of the game play.
If the only loyalty that players have to World of Warcraft is in the novelty of the game mechanic, this leaves it vulnerable on at least two very important fronts. The first front: once players grow bored of the game mechanic, theres no reason to hang around anymore. The second front: Players will be easily distracted by another game with better core mechanics.
A MMORPG cannot just be a game: When you start charging a subscription, youre promising it to be more than that. It has to genuinely interest players in investing time in it for meaningfully compelling reasons. World of Warcraft is far too trivialized, it's evident in the quick grind, the artificial world, and the punch-out trade skill system.
If I understand it correctly, the counter-argument is that WoW is going to retain its incredible subscription numbers by continually attracting new players. New to the game and new to the genre. Without a doubt, Blizzard has succeeded in attracting players, but I don't see any points that support it keeping its players in the long run.
Damn, that was a very good counter-arguement. Very well arguement + very well counter-arguement. I must say people take games way to seriously these days...damn the PC.
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I want to walk across the virtual world from one city to the next while avoiding dangers. How do you propose I do that in GW? No persistant world = not a real MMORPG.
That said, I don't think the game will be a failure or anything. The graphics are great, and after purchase, you will always be able to play it any time you like without having to fork out $$$ in order to reactivate your account. But being an online game where people can play together doesn't make it an MMORPG.
I want to walk across the virtual world from one city to the next while avoiding dangers. How do you propose I do that in GW? No persistant world = not a real MMORPG.
You are able to walk across the virtual world from city to the next in Guild Wars. You can also walk across the virtual world in a game like Morrowind, which is not online at all. But I think what you are getting at is the instance questing, where the game takes your party from an outpost and puts you into your own instance of the quest?
As far as being persistant, players are put into ONE game, different than other mmo's where there are multiple servers running different isntances of the world. The only time the world changes is when guilds win an event or similar happening, and then using the streaming technology the world changes for everyone based on what that guild has done.
You should read the General forums on WoW's site sometime. There are constantlly players posting about why they are leaving because there is no content for a serious RPGer. And people who are not posting about leaving are posting about nerfs, overpowered classes, faults in the honour system, and many more complaints. The game will fail, and when it does I won't be the least bit surprised. Im just glad this game was a present, because if I bought it with my own money I would be very angry.
OK, so now that you've driven your opinion home (and it is an opinion, however many times you state it as fact), tell us... Which is the right game for a serious RPGer?
I was hoping whoever read this topic took it with a grain of salt.
Please, remember this is just a discussion. I play WoW myself - I don't want WoW to fail anymore than the next person. But given its current incarnation - I couldn't imagine still playing it next year. Perhaps battlegrounds will offer something that keeps me around, all the better!