Hero's Council

MisfitZ

" The Hero Council invites gaming community leaders to come together and act as representatives of their player communities and express their desires, thoughts and ideas for game design. In this manner, Hero's Journey will continue to be developed with a broadened range of input and more accurately depict what the player population wants. Ideally, it is a mechanism by which ideas can flow from the community to the community leadership to the Hero's Journey developers, eventually reaching a stage where these ideas can be considered for inclusion into the game. "

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So....we at MMoRPG.com certainly aren't a guild, yet we are a gaming community. Unfortunately, we don't have a leader, unless you count the staff, and they're more like referees than leaders...

What I'm getting at, is that over here at MMoRPG.com we certainly have "desires, thoughts and ideas for game design." Perhaps we should consider having a volunteer represent us on the Hero Council? It certainly seems like a good idea, to me. It would get our ideas actually heard, instead of the usual bickering back and forth until we tire of worrying that particular bone of contention, and find a new one (or dig up another old one). Anyone feel up to the task?

We would need someone willing to engage and mediate discussions on specific topics, to the effect that we, that is, those of us at MMoRPG.com that are interested in Hero's Journey, can at least somewhat agree on the outcome of the discussion. Then our Ambassador to the Hero Council could take the summary of our views and express them in a coherent, intelligent manner to the rest of the Hero Council and to the Devs at Simutronics.

Any thoughts?

Adreal

and express them in a coherent, intelligent manner to the rest of the Hero Council and to the Devs at Simutronics.

i kood... No, seriously... I'm already on the HJC. So if you have anything to tell them, then start talking.

makkah

Tell them that people LIKE organized PvP.  Warring factions"countries" would very much kick tail.

rht

Adreal

Done. Anything else? I'll try to keep you updated when one of the mods replies.

makkah

Nothin else from me.  I don't have enough experience in graphicals to add anything more.  Been playing GemStone long enough to have SOME faith in Simutronics though...

rht

Adreal

Been playing GemStone long enough

Cool. How long you been playing and what was/is your character's name? I stopped at level 13 halfling wizard last time I think. My level 16 rogue just wasn't cutting it with the old combat system in Gemstone III. So I made a wizard, and he was pretty good at combat - taking cave trolls a few levels above him at a cautious pace. Then GSIV came along and forever changed the combat system and I was back to sucking and getting owned again - or else being very cautious around creatures the same level. Halfling wizards aren't that great with swords and a wizard should never have to rely solely on his/her mana at their regeneration rate. I was using a sword and I was a halfling so that was hard on me. As wizards go though, halflings are the best at bolt casters I've heard.

makkah

Heh.  I been playin GS34 for like 6 years? 7?

Got two characters.  You can IM me if you're ever thinkin bout coming back.  Makkah R

 

rht

MisfitZ

Ok, this is just for starters...

On the subject of PvP:

Organized PvP can mean many things. Dueling, Arenas, Tournaments, Various Fact vs Faction style, Sieges, these are all commonly thought of as "organized". Generally, they are, and they are usually quite fun. But what they lack is spontaneity. Zones, scheduled events, PvP flags...all these things dilute the adreniline rush that is the main draw of PvP.

Now, what I'm suggesting is a form of Open PvP.

Whoa, Open PvP? Gankfests, no thanks!

Hear me out. This would only work with a relatively flat power curve. Meaning, a "Level 50" player is only 10 or 20  times stronger than a "Level 5" player, instead of hundreds, or even thousands of times stronger, which is the case in most MMos these days. (I'll use levels as a reference for power level, even though I despise the whole concept of levels. But that's another problem altogether.)

PvP without restrictions, but with consequences based on various factors. A person who murders someone, with no cause, should be treated as a pariah. An outcast. Attacked on sight by martial NPcs, refused service by vendors, and unable to be ressurected by healers, priests, or unable to bind to a ressurection spot (depending on the method). Bounties should be taken out for their heads, and special quests should be given by high-ranking NPCs to powerful PCs to track them down and end their lives.

Another balancing factor would be kharma. Some people may be familiar with how kharma was used in Ultima Online. It bestowed a title to your paperdoll based on your actions. The more positive kharma you earned, the better your title. The more negative kharma you earned, the more evil your title became. Great and Dread were the two extremes.

What I propose would be similiar. Players earn positive and negative kharma based on their actions. Killing evil monsters, completing positive-natured quests, these would increase your kharma. Killing NPCs, completing evil quests, would lower it. Killing a player or players would drop it like a rock. However, this kharma rating doesn't just affect your title, it affects how NPCs treat you, what monsters will attack you, and what your penalties for death are.

A kindly soul will suffer little from an out of body experience. Whereas, a wholly evil soul will taste a bit of the torment awaiting him, should he be permanently destroyed. Therefore, the good player suffers a little ability loss, based on the rigor mortis and muscle atrophy caused by trauma. The evil player suffers greater ability loss, due to the mental and spiritual anguish they've suffered on top of the physical trauma of being slain. This puts a very heavy consequence on being an evil character. Casual griefers won't be able to survive, or effectively grief, for long. They will die, and die repeatedly. Each time they die they would need to re-train their character a certain amount.

Open PvP can encourage player organizations, both good and evil. What most games lack, however, is the motivation to stay good. It's very easy to become a rampant murderer and get away with it in most games. I propose that players who kill a single other player are deemed forever outcast, until they've been served justice. Justice could depend on many other factors in the game. If caught, they could be fined, imprisoned, executed, cursed, exiled...the possibilities are many, and generally depend on the other factors in the game.

A strong motivation for staying positive will also help check griefers, and gankers. PC guard factions, who's duties it is to protect cities and PC Ranger factions, who would patrol roads and forests, would provide protection for weaker players and also provide high-end players with plenty to do.

 

But then, on the other hand, players who want to RP a villian, or simply be a robber, a bandit, a murderer....they will have their chance, provided they can stay one step ahead of the law. Bounty hunters, rangers, and guards will make it difficult, but not impossible, to play an evil character. Exactly as it should be. The benefits offered by the in-game society should completely favor good characters, with evil characters being despised, and shunned.

If enough checks and balances are put into place, players won't have to worry about giant gankfests by evil players at newbie zones, or crossroads, or exits from cities. Yet, there will still be that unknown factor, the small amount if trepidation, the alert suspicion when encountering a stranger.

As for consensual or semi-consensual PvP, such as Guild vs Guild, or Duels, or Arenas: kharma ratings would also help in this case. Kharma penalties based on relative skill, or levels, or power. For instance, Player X is "level 50" and in Guild 1. He attacks and kills Player Y, who is in Guild 2. Guild 1 is at war with Guild 2, so Player X suffers no social penalties for killing Player Y. Meaning, NPCs will react to him the same as they would have before he killed Player Y. However, because Player Y was only "Level 20", Player X suffers kharmic penalties, for attacking and killing a player much, much weaker than himself.

My final point is this: Games without interesting, engaging, and above all, FUN PvP eventually grow stale, at least in my experience. There's only so many times you can kill the same NPC creatures before you grow tired of it. Human opposition offers unlimited amounts of variety, of randomness that keeps the game fresh and interesting. Providing a solid, balanced, FUN PvP system from the BEGINNING of the game is essential. A patched-in, half-assed, hacked-together PvP system that's put in as an after-thought can totally ruin a game.

 

If anyone has some reasoned, well thought out points they would like to dispute or discuss, please, by all means, do so.

Keep the "OMFG U R A GREEFING FGT LIL KIDDY AND U R GHY" comments to yourself, thanks.

Adreal

Alright. I posted it up on the council instancing/pvp forum.

MisfitZ

  Man. I had a whole long post typed up about instancing. Back button on my mouse > me.

Anyways, here's an excerpt from the article linked below.

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" Example 2 (new): Instancing

Instancing looks very appealing on the face of it: groups of friends can play together without interference in relative tranquillity. What's not to love?

The thing is, this is not what virtual worlds are about. How can you have any impact on a world if you're only using it as a portal to a first-person shooter? How do you interact with people if they're battened down in an inaccessible pocket universe? Where's the sense of achievement, of making a difference, of being someone?

Most players don't see it that way, though.

Newbies see it as familiar - "fantasy Counterstrike, cool!" (point #2). They don't know what it means for their long-term enjoyment (point #4). Of course, they eventually will learn what it means - boredom and disenchantment - but even so, they probably won't connect the effect with the cause. They'll just go looking for another virtual world that features instancing (point #3). Older-era players will perhaps initially avoid anything with instancing because their first love didn't have it (point #3), but they'll probably try it eventually because (point #4) hey, maybe it's that missing piece that will give them the sense of closure they crave?

Thus, instancing will get locked into the paradigm. New virtual worlds that don't have it will get fewer players than those that do have it, even though they have the better design.

Instancing is short-term good, long-term bad: accepted. "

Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20041103/bartle_01.shtml

Adreal

Ok. I'll post this up too. I'm sure the devs browse these forums once in a while, but I'll be sure to bring it right to their attention. I know at least one other person than me on the council shares the same views on instancing - bad thing for MMOGs. I've already advised them that they should have as little as possible instancing, but they said they would have it; to what degree I don't know yet. I'll have to wait until beta to find out. I've already mentioned this before on the MMORPG.com forums: I disliked Guild Wars very much for the significant amount of instancing it had in it.

Sure some people enjoy it because it might eliminate (somewhat) SKers and possibly provide for the feel of you being the hero rather than constantly seeing multiple "heroes" around you doing the same recycled quest. However, for me it just provides a sense of loneliness and detachment from the community rather than having the effect of "feeling special." Anyway...

Adreal

I got the post up and read what SAITOB wrote in response (he's not a dev or mod) to your message:

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Gankfests are what they are, which I'm not saying to be flippant, I'm saying it because it's true. There are always gankers when you have a PvP game. So make PvP level-specific. The worst complaint my guildies have in WoW is a lvl 30 being griefed by lvl 60's. It's not the camping so much as it's the inability of the campee to defend himself. We don't all want to call Big Brother in to save us from the evil, mean enemy guys. We'd like to get up and fight our own battles -- especially when Big Brother is unavailable to come to our aid.

As for camping, start off with a 100% exp win, then draw down to 0% to lose the interest in killing the same guy over and over again. If it's either faction exp or profession exp it doesn't matter -- I kill Treveri the first time I get 100% of the allocated exp. I kill him the second time I get 50%. I kill him a third time (yeah, it's beginning to look like camping, isn't it?) and I get 0% for it. Unless I really hate him, he's no longer worth my time. I should go look for another vict...er, player! Hehe.

Okay, that last bit is an extreme example but I'm just trying to think outside the box. Killing Treveri at all would make me do the happy joy joy dance Not!!

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Here's my message in response to his:

Open PvP wouldn't be bad in my opinion if worked correctly. I mean, look at Gemstone III! There was open PvP in that game and there was permanent death. At any time, someone could come up to you and kill you. That doesn't mean that they exploited it and often did because there were penalties for killing someone - jail time and possible loss of all of your belongings. It was pretty much instant-jail if you weren't hiding in town after you killed the person and the NPC constable would still track you down (I think) if you killed someone outside of but near town and then entered town. You had to be cautious about killing people. It wasn't anything like Darktide for Asheron's Call 1. However, I still enjoyed Darktide even though I got my butt kicked more than I injured or killed anyone else.

I think open PvP could work. Why? Because it has in the past.

PS. (this isn't what I put up in response to him/her) I am getting tired of seeing all of this focus on balance issues, no sting of death, constant grind, recycled quests, instancing, static storylines, and high-priced dirty-rag items from NPC vendors and no thought toward beginning game experiences. This is pretty much the problem with most games out there today, and it makes me sick just listing them all.

MisfitZ

I just realized you need to login to gamasutra.com to view that article I posted, so I just c/p it into a post in the general discussion.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm/load/forums/loadforum/51/loadthread/37656/setstart/1/loadclass/35

Adreal, if you could link that in the Hero Council forums too, I'd appreciate it.

SIMU-MELISSA

Thanks for posting your thoughts, and also to Adreal for collecting them for the Hero Council.

 

Melissa

Adreal

Thanks for posting your thoughts, and also to Adreal for collecting them for the Hero Council.

No problem.  And Misfitz, here's what Skippy (a mod) put up in response to that article:

>>First-time newbies will always assert the supremacy of their first virtual world, but oldbies who have been through the mill enough will realise that some of the features they've been taking for granted are actually counter-productive.

Just a quick question. Do we think that the "oldbies" tutor the newbies in today's hit grapical MMORPGs (and is this enough to rely on when considering designing a MMORPG?)? Where do newbies gain their knowledge of each particular game?

The last paragraph above is his, of course. I would say that people are starting to overthink this for fear of financial loss or poor business practice. It's good to be prepared, but simply put - if you make a good game, it's going to receive recognition from "oldbies" and newbies alike. That's how I view it anyway. If you have any response to this, Misfitz, just post it up and I'll do the same on the HJ forums. Also it's hard to define what's fun, but like some things in this life it's harder to define than to experience. Trying to define fun when relating to games is like asking yourself why you continue to live your life and not simply die. It's pretty much understood by everyone, but it can take pages and pages to explain and debate.

MisfitZ

In reply to Skippy's question:

Yes, to a certain extent, "oldbies" do tutor the newbies. Unfortunately, this is severely limited, for a couple reasons.

1. For every person out there who helps someone out of the kindness of their heart, expecting no reward, there are 5 who would prefer to take advantage of them for their own ends.

2. There is no real incentive in most games to help newbies, unless they are your friends. Helping a newbie takes up your valuable time, and if you're a casual player, that could mean missing out on the fun for most of a night. Even for hardcore players, it means time away from their hardcore race to the finish line that is the Endgame.

As it stands, the amount of "Oldbies" who actually take the time to help Newbies is definately not enough to rely on when designing a game. The social mechanics of most games do not provide any real incentive to helping other players, new ones especially. In fact, in most games it would be a better use of your time to kill them and take whatever meagre possesions they have.

Newbies generally learn through experience. A small minority have a friend to guide them through the early parts of a new game, but most either fumble their way through it, or if they are somewhat experienced gamers, turn to the internet for forums and guides. A negative experience early on in the game can easily lead to a low Newbie rentention rate. For example: complicated combat systems that aren't easily explained via a tutorial, combined with a harsh death penalty ( or even permadeath ), can lead to a very frustrated new player.

A game that has innovative features that may be alien to most players should definately incorporate some kind of Mentor capacity, wherein veteran players can earn currency, skills, experience, faction points; some type of reward for helping new players. A veteran player helping you learn your combat style, or helping you to forage for ingrediants for your potions or magic spells can make a game seem simple and straightforward.

One example was in a game that recently was canceled, called "Wish". Many of you may have been familiar with that game. One of the features that they were going to implement was a Master/Apprentice relationship, where a highly-skilled player must teach a new player, in order to advance themselves. There was also talk of some kind of Mentor position, where players could earn a sort of reward through their "Town Guilds" (another interesting feature, I'll explain it next, as it relates to the discussion quite a bit.) by helping new players who were also in their "Town Guilds."

"Town Guilds" were yet another thing the game "Wish" used to help out newbies. When you created a character, you chose a town to start in. When you started in that town, you automatically became a member of the "Town Guild". "Town Guilds" had a seperate global chat window. This meant that no matter where you went, you could communicate with your "Town Guild" members. Also, the "Town Guild" chat window was the default tab. This meant that new players automatically began communicating with their fellow "Town Guild" members. This helped to foster a local sense of community. Players would offer their fellow "Town Guild" members cheaper prices on equipment, and would come to each other's aid when it was needed. They would also offer advice, and many players formed their first hunting groups out of the "Town Guild".

Essentially, what is needed in order for Newbies to quickly become accustomed and acclimated to a game is a strong sense of local community, and a strong incentive for "Oldbies" to help out new players. With a veteran player to help them, and explain complicated, oftentimes confusing features, a Newbie will be much more accepting of things that are different.

Also, if veterans had a good reason to meet new players, and form friendships, it would increase the social aspects of the game.  This would also help to increase the Newbie rentention rate. And with veteran players making more friends in the game, they too will be more reluctant to leave. So long as the rest of the game is still fun, that is.

Harelin

I submitted my Hero's Council application a while back, and my guild is eagerly awaiting news back on it. Simutronics still reviewing applications?

Adreal

I submitted my Hero's Council application a while back, and my guild is eagerly awaiting news back on it. Simutronics still reviewing applications?

A few months ago (or so), I was hearing that they were starting to permit fewer people as they were reaching an amount that seemed adequate for representation. I'm not sure if they'd still be accepting applications or not. Possibly. I'm sure you can still sign up for a free play.net account and post in the Heroe's Journey (not council) forum.

MisfitZ

For the next installment in the Rant-a-thon, the topic will be: Shiny pants.

Why do pirates have shiny pants?

I swear, that screenshot makes me twitch. Everything about the scenery, the environments, the ambiance...magnificent. Stunning. Impressive. Dare I say "Jaw-dropping".

Then we get to the characters, and I want to punch myself in the face, just for looking at them.

It's not that they're horrible, no. It's that they're a twisted, grotesque anomoly in the wondrous landscape.

Not all of the characters, mind you. Just the pirates.

I can't get past them, for some reason.

 

I'll launch into detail here: Pirate 1, we'll call him Whiteshirt. Maybe it's the angle, but it appears that both of his legs are broken just below the knee. This calls attention to the fact that he's wearing tight vinyl pants, and fake leather boots. If I didn't know better, I would say that wasn't a ship at all, but a "certain type" of nightclub, with a seafaring theme.

The way he's holding that longsword screams "Plastic Prop", and after studying the screenshot for several minutes, I still don't know what that green stripe running up his stomach is. The two-tone knee-length vest is also a puzzle. Is it that ugly on purpose, some kind of natural defense mechanism? The gold embroidery on the boots is so silly, so far out of reality it could only have been found in a local K-Mart in the seasonal isle around the end of October.

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Pirate Number 2: Pegleg.

Overall, he looks better than Whiteshirt, but he's still severely personality-challenged. He is also holding his sword strangely. A sword is made of metal. It is heavy. It bothers me that character animators take all this time to animate these compelling, believable characters, and then leave in giant, glaring flaws that shatter the illusion. Swords are point heavy. Real people don't hold swords like that unless they are posing for the cover of a heavy metal album.

Anyways, the clothing is odd as well. A grizzled sailor with a pegleg wouldn't be wearing bright, shiny pants with a ragged cuff. Or a brand new, felt-trimmed leather vest. The only article of clothing that seems to fit is the faded skullcap. I'm not sure what that is on his arm, a tattoo or a leather bracer or what.  His boot is also too shiny, it looks like he looted it off the corpse of a ROTC troop leader.

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Pirate Number 3: Ehh. No comment. This guy is just too flamboyent for words.

 

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Don't take this critique the wrong way, please. I know exactly how much time and effort and care go into character development. This post is for constructive criticism only. As such, it is obviously my opinion, and therefore subject to my snap judgements.

 

Adreal

MisfitZ, below is a quote from Simu-Melissa. The bold italic is what she's quoting from my post which I also attached to your critique. The simple italic, well, is just her talking.

>I think what he means by all of this is that whoever was composing the setting was certainly not an artist but simply more of a player, and that there are some flaws in the game's art that need to be worked on or else the screenshots should at least portray a deceptive beauty about the game as do most screenshots from various games out there. <

>It's understandable that the clothes don't match since everybody is different and have their own tastes, but what's not understandable is whether it was meant to be a scene of artistic ability and whether that knee-length coat is supposed to be multi-huen. <

In answer to the question on whether we're intending to show both artistic beauty or what a player could do -- well, clearly both. We want to show everyone our great art, and at the same time make it clear what type of possibilities are there.

I grant Misfitz that our characters aren't holding swords correctly. That's one of those things we're working on. I'm not sure about the broken legs ... I'll have to look at that more closely. I suspect that's a combination of the angle and their stance. People tend to stand a little more wide-legged while on a boat for the sake of balance.

In general, the points seem to be about the way I chose to dress the pirates. They ARE flamboyant; especially Mr. White Shirt -- the captain. Fortunately, our characters are customizable enough that if you want to dress your pirate in dull, drab, loose fitting clothing, then you can do just that. But of course, you already said that.

I guess I need a little more detail about this in general. Is the complaint that the pirates don't resemble their own mental image of pirates? Or is the complaint that with our art, we COULD NEVER achieve a good looking pirate? If so, I need more feedback on what you think could achieve the pirate look.

MisfitZ

Ok, I guess I wasn't very clear in my previous post. Sorry, my fault.

The problem here isn't a lack of artistic ability - it's obvious that everyone involved in the artistic side of the project is quite talented, and well knows what they are doing.

The problem, as I saw it, in that particular screenshot, is how much the characters stand out from the environment. They don't look like they belong there, they look like they got shanghaid on the way to a costume party. The stylization of the environment is completely different from the characters.

Besides the lack of consistency, the characters themselves have a few issues. For one, their clothing doesn't look real. Specular highlights are great, on shiny materials. The kind of cloth a pirate would be wearing shouldn't have specular hightlights of the degree that I'm seeing. As a matter of fact, I noticed that problem on several other characters, but to a lesser degree.

All fabrics diffuse light, not reflect it. It is true that silk can be somewhat reflective, but it is also transparent. The clothing shown in that shot resemble modern synthetic fabrics much more than natural fibers. The pants look like vinyl, the boots appear to be new and recently polished. Rather than slap a specular map on each article of clothing, perhaps add a filter to the color map to give the appearance of more texture (or a subtle bumpmap).

Another problem, to my mind, is the colors. They are too bright. Bright, saturated dyes were extremely expensive before the industrialization of western civilization made them cheap to manufacture. The fact that colors like that offend my own sense of fashion has little to do with the fact that pirates just wouldn't be able to afford them, and they really wouldn't be that common in the first place, thus making them rare as a looted item.

I suppose it may not be a case of right or wrong, but of personal expectations for a concept. For instance, when I think of pirates, I think of men who have been out at sea for weeks or months at a time. Their clothing has been repeatedly drenched with saltwater, and stained with food, bile, and blood. They haven't bathed anymore than the bath they get during rough seas or stormy weather. Their sense of fashion is dictated by the expense of the fabric, not by a particular cut or quality tailoring. They wear a piece of clothing until it is completely worn out, or until they can loot something they like better. The lower in the hierarchy they are, the less flamboyant their clothing. The captain dresses in silks and velvet, and the newest deckhand wears hemp and wool.

 

So, in summary, the problem lies in two departments: excessive use of specular highlighting, and inconsistent design. The characters need to be integrated into their environments better, with more attention given to their personal backgrounds rather than to the technical aspects of the graphics engine that can be shown off. Right now, the environments are spot on, but the characters feel fake, staged, like actors on Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean ( the ride, not the movie).

 

I hope that clarified my point somewhat.

jgankum

First, who are you to tell someone else how to dress their char? Second, your reference to a time period in the real world has little bearing on a GAME with MAGIC. Last time I check there were no cat people or giant green half humans running around pirate ships either, but you will probably see it in the game. Stop applying real world logic to a fantasy game.

Jonny

Adreal

I know that cases from the real world cannot necessarily be applied to a fantasy game, but I think that in this case pirates with bright and glossy clothing should be frowned upon in company art. The company wants to draw people in (I would assume); not repulse them with flashy colors which don't match the scenery. I do agree with Simu-Melissa that it'd be a good idea to show off their character customization, but it would also be a good idea to show it off in the right way - something that "matches" or goes well with the setting it's in.

jgankum

You are also assuming that bright and flashy does not appeal to people. You further assume that it in fact "repulses" people. Rather strong words there. You want things to "match" with the setting it's in? Again, Big Green Humans, cat people, gnome looking people. You’re only imposing your ideas of what the setting should be. If they write into the lore that pirates of the day touted flashy tight clothing, then the pirates are spot on. It is make believe, dare to be different. If you want a recreation of real pirates play a game that is intent on doing just that.

The reason for my little rant is that I don’t want them to start trying to limit the character customizations because a few pirates did not look like the pirates from our history books.

Jonny

Adreal

Yeah. I wouldn't want them to limit character customization either. A guy should be able to crossdress in a pink tutu with bright green polkadots with no shirt on and a black sinister-looking medieval helm. Heck, he should be able to strike a pose too. However, I'm just saying that it probably wouldn't be in the company's best interests to show that specific scenery with their level of character customization but rather something more fitting. There's being creative, and then there's just stabbing someone in the eye.

What they show is up to them and would be fine with me just as long as they portrayed each scene with complimenting colors to make for an atmosphere that, with each element, perfectly fit. The shiny clothes on pirates can be used at appropriate times, but I don't think that this is one of them. Anyway, it's not a big deal. The screenshot shows, and I apologize for being blunt, poor artistic ability (in my opinion). It's not like their game sucks though, but far from it if they have a great level of detail. I'm actually looking forward to this game.

MisfitZ

Hmm, Adreal, I think you're being too harsh.

From one perspective, yes, the art is bad: it is poorly composed.

On the other hand, none of the art individually is horrible, it just clashes horribly in that particular scene.

So, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the screenshot shows poor artistic ability. What is shows is a poor choice of composition. Those characters, in that environment, stand out like an Uruk-Hai in Disneyworld. In a different setting the effect wouldn't be as jarring.

Say, a bright, cloudless day out at sea, the ship's deck covered with bloodstains and detritus from the feast that followed a sucessful raid. Every pirate has a wine or rum bottle in his hand, and many have their arm around a whore. They are singing and dancing and generally cavorting in the way that pirates do when they've had too much to drink. In this environment, one almost expects that they would be dressed in an painfully garish manner.

Anyways: I'm not voting to limit character customization possibilities. I'm simply pointing out my opinions on the screenshot in question.

[Edit] My point was that the composition of the shot drew attention to what might otherwise be subtle flaws in the characters costumes. And nothing can really excuse the green stripe going up Mr. Whiteshirt's shirt. [/Edit]