I'm leaning towards the GW2 model. Even though the game still lost tonnes of players, the barrier for returning to the game is much lower, which means the people you lose come back to check it out again when there's a new update. With SWTOR, when I started getting bored, I just quit and never looked back because if I wanted to do so I had to pay up with at least a month's sub (I know it's F2P -now- but it wasn't back then).
Same thing with WoW - I only seem to return when there's a new big expansion, then quit again a little while after hitting the cap.
But it also means the cash shop must be attractive enough that they actually make enough money from it. I don't know if that's the case with GW2 or not, but it doesn't look like they're shutting the down the game to me.
I voted for P2P, because I want the developers to spend all their time developing the game than waste time on cash shops. Anyways, why does it matter what kind of business model the company choose to go with? I mean if ESO turns out to be a great game why would it matter if it's p2p, b2p or f2p? Wouldn't you just play it because it's a good game?
Originally posted by Fearum How would boxing gloves and baseball hats fit into TES lore from the cash shop. How could the lore master add in lore about the oh so wonderful cash shop guild in the building next to the fighters guild.
This is what scares me about cash shops. Silly cosmetic items.
And whats with all the vanity items in cash shops? The only way to get money out of this generation of gamers is vanity items?
If ESO isn't P2P, I hope it's B2P with no cash shop.
I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy. IE All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2)
I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content. As long as it follows the rules I specified above.
The payment model doesn't matter to me at all. I will be happy to pay a subscription for a good game that I want to play. If the game sucks I don't care if it's free I'm still not going to play it.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy. IE All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2)
I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content. As long as it follows the rules I specified above.
Why does it bother you that someone can convert say gems to gold? As an example I have spent over $770.00 in GW2 and converted msot of it to gold. Tell me what advatage did I gane from this? Other then it allowed me to level 3 additional characters to leve lcap and equip them with craftable exotic gear to compete in WvW and PvE. Did I magically aquire more skill? More abilities? More power? Nope all it did was allow me to convert my real life time into game currency to get to the same stage as someone who played the normal way. I don't regret my actions one bit either because in an archaic game like WoW it would take me years to level each of every class to the level cap. All I did was convert time to gold, same as if I played. To me thats the beauty of a cash shop.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by azzamasin Originally posted by ragz45I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy. IE All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2)I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content. As long as it follows the rules I specified above.
Why does it bother you that someone can convert say gems to gold? As an example I have spent over $770.00 in GW2 and converted msot of it to gold. Tell me what advatage did I gane from this? Other then it allowed me to level 3 additional characters to leve lcap and equip them with craftable exotic gear to compete in WvW and PvE. Did I magically aquire more skill? More abilities? More power? Nope all it did was allow me to convert my real life time into game currency to get to the same stage as someone who played the normal way. I don't regret my actions one bit either because in an archaic game like WoW it would take me years to level each of every class to the level cap. All I did was convert time to gold, same as if I played. To me thats the beauty of a cash shop. You have 3 characters with good gear as oposed to the guy thats on a minimum wage and works his ass of real time?
Real life savings should have any account in video games.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
P2P for me. But it has to be worth it, something we will see very soon.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by ragz45I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy. IE All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2)I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content. As long as it follows the rules I specified above.
Why does it bother you that someone can convert say gems to gold? As an example I have spent over $770.00 in GW2 and converted msot of it to gold. Tell me what advatage did I gane from this? Other then it allowed me to level 3 additional characters to leve lcap and equip them with craftable exotic gear to compete in WvW and PvE. Did I magically aquire more skill? More abilities? More power? Nope all it did was allow me to convert my real life time into game currency to get to the same stage as someone who played the normal way. I don't regret my actions one bit either because in an archaic game like WoW it would take me years to level each of every class to the level cap. All I did was convert time to gold, same as if I played. To me thats the beauty of a cash shop.
You have 3 characters with good gear as oposed to the guy thats on a minimum wage and works his ass of real time?
Real life savings should have any account in video games.
Personally I enjoy playing a game I bought as opposted to putting more money into a game in order to play it less
Imo the cash shop destroy the gameplay, restricting certain aspects of a game. Everything should be available anyone. That said, it should be with a subscription.
Originally posted by Galadourn I want TESO to attract a mature audience, so I voted P2P.
P2P doesn't make the community any more mature.
As a whole no but it gaurentee's there wil be enough mature players for me to have a good time, its pretty easy to filter out the ass hats, how is that not obvious about P2P verses F2P?
Originally posted by Galadourn I want TESO to attract a mature audience, so I voted P2P.
P2P doesn't make the community any more mature.
As a whole no but it gaurentee's there wil be enough mature players for me to have a good time, its pretty easy to filter out the ass hats, how is that not obvious about P2P verses F2P?
I think P2P brings out the worst in people. They pay therefore they believe they can behave as assholish as they want. On the other hand in F2P/B2P games people are more humble since they get to play for free or with an one time fee.
Originally posted by Aeonblades P2P Subscription. It's the best way to avoid 75% of MMO asshats.
Have you played wow?
Can someone explain why exactly it's a given that WoW has a shit community?
The thing with WoW is that so many people play it your bound to find more douches then normal. But that also means your more likely to find people you do like due to the probabilities of that happening being higher. I've quit wow about six times and every time I did go back I found a new guild with decent enough people, sure there's been drama, but I doubt you'd every have that in another game.
I get the feeling this has more to do with people on here being pissed of with how, 'their', genre of games has gone and, 'WoW has a shit community', is just another stick to beat it with.
As for OP, I hope they go down the P2P option with a trial. £8.99 is not much for a well put together game that has lasting appeal, (which I hope this is), and it's a better deal for a customer anyway for obvious cash shop based reasons.
Originally posted by snapfusion Originally posted by Istavaan Originally posted by Galadourn I want TESO to attract a mature audience, so I voted P2P.
P2P doesn't make the community any more mature.
As a whole no but it gaurentee's there wil be enough mature players for me to have a good time, its pretty easy to filter out the ass hats, how is that not obvious about P2P verses F2P?
I think P2P brings out the worst in people. They pay therefore they believe they can behave as assholish as they want. On the other hand in F2P/B2P games people are more humble since they get to play for free or with an one time fee.
That may be your experience, but I have found it to be the opposite: in F2P games, there is no way to get rid of the Bots, cheaters, and over-the-top D-bags, because even if a company did manage to get rid of such undesirables by way of an acct ban, they just roll 3 more and are right back. At least with a sub game / purchased client, it can slow that down a little. Some people play F2P games just to grief and ruin other people's fun, I have seen less of that in P2Ps myself.
It seems that design philosophy for most modern MMORPG’s favors creating what amounts to a single player story RPG with co-op features, limited crafting, and some sort of open PVP zone built around PVE like objectives. As such there simply isn’t any sustained long term play appeal to the games that old school players crave in order to justify a subscription dollar. Designers seem to expect you to buy it, play it for a while, and then move to something else only to hopefully come back for the next expansion.
TESO doesn’t look any different from the other recent releases in that regard. With such a design philosophy a subscription fee amounts to little more than a money grab rather than added play value for the dollars invested. Free to play has increasingly become the last resort for the failed subscription game or a method of nickel and dime-ing you to death for little more than basic game features.
Since TESO doesn’t offer a subscription title’s expected value in content features and is an upcoming release rather than failed attempt at this point, I will only play if it is BUY TO PLAY. Otherwise, they can keep it.
That may be your experience, but I have found it to be the opposite: in F2P games, there is no way to get rid of the Bots, cheaters, and over-the-top D-bags, because even if a company did manage to get rid of such undesirables by way of an acct ban, they just roll 3 more and are right back. At least with a sub game / purchased client, it can slow that down a little. Some people play F2P games just to grief and ruin other people's fun, I have seen less of that in P2Ps myself.
Another good point, I agree. I will always prefer Subscription based mmorpgs.
Comments
B2P
Recently released MMOs (TERA, TSW) that started out as P2P ended up either F2P or B2P. SWTOR also went F2P in what, 6 months?
The only MMO that comes to mind that has yet to fail as a P2P game other than WoW is Rift.
Top that with GW2's success with the B2P model I doubt devs would want to test the waters with P2P now a days.
No box price, 9$ sub,. with F2P with cash shop option.
Box prices scare the shit out of after GW2, RIFT, and Pandaland.
B2P, TSW and GW2 kinda have me spoiled now (even though I had a lifetime sub to TSW already) I dont wanna go back to paying subs ever again!
Also I enjoy having more than one MMO at a time now. Subs make me feel like I have to be too commited to one game.
Actually,
Ultima Online
Asheron's Call
Eve
Dark Age of Camelot
NexusTK
Warhammer
All still require subscriptions to play. I'm sure there are more i'm missing.
DAoC and warhammer are on life support though. Also daoc came out in 2001 and war is considered a failure. No idea about the others.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
I'm leaning towards the GW2 model. Even though the game still lost tonnes of players, the barrier for returning to the game is much lower, which means the people you lose come back to check it out again when there's a new update. With SWTOR, when I started getting bored, I just quit and never looked back because if I wanted to do so I had to pay up with at least a month's sub (I know it's F2P -now- but it wasn't back then).
Same thing with WoW - I only seem to return when there's a new big expansion, then quit again a little while after hitting the cap.
But it also means the cash shop must be attractive enough that they actually make enough money from it. I don't know if that's the case with GW2 or not, but it doesn't look like they're shutting the down the game to me.
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This is what scares me about cash shops. Silly cosmetic items.
And whats with all the vanity items in cash shops? The only way to get money out of this generation of gamers is vanity items?
If ESO isn't P2P, I hope it's B2P with no cash shop.
I have no objection to cash shops in MMO's as long as there is no way to convert the items/coin bought in the cash shop to in game currancy. IE All items are bound, and you can't convert RL money to in game cash (ala GW2)
I know many people object to cash shops, but I look at it as an additional funding sounce for games to create more content. As long as it follows the rules I specified above.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Asherons Call has like 900 players and even though its my favorite game of all time it really needs to go F2P.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Why does it bother you that someone can convert say gems to gold? As an example I have spent over $770.00 in GW2 and converted msot of it to gold. Tell me what advatage did I gane from this? Other then it allowed me to level 3 additional characters to leve lcap and equip them with craftable exotic gear to compete in WvW and PvE. Did I magically aquire more skill? More abilities? More power? Nope all it did was allow me to convert my real life time into game currency to get to the same stage as someone who played the normal way. I don't regret my actions one bit either because in an archaic game like WoW it would take me years to level each of every class to the level cap. All I did was convert time to gold, same as if I played. To me thats the beauty of a cash shop.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
You have 3 characters with good gear as oposed to the guy thats on a minimum wage and works his ass of real time?
Real life savings should have any account in video games.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Personally I enjoy playing a game I bought as opposted to putting more money into a game in order to play it less
Are we voting based on what we personally want or what will bring the game success? We can speak expertly on the first but not the second.
I would love to see us discuss the game itself, not things we have no control over or understanding of.
As a whole no but it gaurentee's there wil be enough mature players for me to have a good time, its pretty easy to filter out the ass hats, how is that not obvious about P2P verses F2P?
So people who pay monthly subs are nicer... right....
Talk about stupid Stereotypes...
I think P2P brings out the worst in people. They pay therefore they believe they can behave as assholish as they want. On the other hand in F2P/B2P games people are more humble since they get to play for free or with an one time fee.
DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann
Can someone explain why exactly it's a given that WoW has a shit community?
The thing with WoW is that so many people play it your bound to find more douches then normal. But that also means your more likely to find people you do like due to the probabilities of that happening being higher. I've quit wow about six times and every time I did go back I found a new guild with decent enough people, sure there's been drama, but I doubt you'd every have that in another game.
I get the feeling this has more to do with people on here being pissed of with how, 'their', genre of games has gone and, 'WoW has a shit community', is just another stick to beat it with.
As for OP, I hope they go down the P2P option with a trial. £8.99 is not much for a well put together game that has lasting appeal, (which I hope this is), and it's a better deal for a customer anyway for obvious cash shop based reasons.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
P2P doesn't make the community any more mature.
As a whole no but it gaurentee's there wil be enough mature players for me to have a good time, its pretty easy to filter out the ass hats, how is that not obvious about P2P verses F2P?
I think P2P brings out the worst in people. They pay therefore they believe they can behave as assholish as they want. On the other hand in F2P/B2P games people are more humble since they get to play for free or with an one time fee.
That may be your experience, but I have found it to be the opposite: in F2P games, there is no way to get rid of the Bots, cheaters, and over-the-top D-bags, because even if a company did manage to get rid of such undesirables by way of an acct ban, they just roll 3 more and are right back. At least with a sub game / purchased client, it can slow that down a little. Some people play F2P games just to grief and ruin other people's fun, I have seen less of that in P2Ps myself.It seems that design philosophy for most modern MMORPG’s favors creating what amounts to a single player story RPG with co-op features, limited crafting, and some sort of open PVP zone built around PVE like objectives. As such there simply isn’t any sustained long term play appeal to the games that old school players crave in order to justify a subscription dollar. Designers seem to expect you to buy it, play it for a while, and then move to something else only to hopefully come back for the next expansion.
TESO doesn’t look any different from the other recent releases in that regard. With such a design philosophy a subscription fee amounts to little more than a money grab rather than added play value for the dollars invested. Free to play has increasingly become the last resort for the failed subscription game or a method of nickel and dime-ing you to death for little more than basic game features.
Since TESO doesn’t offer a subscription title’s expected value in content features and is an upcoming release rather than failed attempt at this point, I will only play if it is BUY TO PLAY. Otherwise, they can keep it.
Another good point, I agree. I will always prefer Subscription based mmorpgs.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot