Just a thanks to the one-track-minded rejoinders for attempting to change the debate to one which might be characterised as ‘it’s my PvP way, or the highway...’
Allow me to once more inject reason into the discourse for those who joined the thread halfway through and think these self-serving and extremely limited points of view are representative of the debate.
The playschool logic crowd would have you believe that in meeting the interesting and potentially successful mass PvP ‘DaoC model’ the developers have gone for, that, in line with what they claim to have done, you have to rip out one of the most cherished and successful elements of TES...
... the freedom to explore...
Those with less complex thoughts on the issue seem to think (on both sides of the argument) that to have full exploration you need to remove the planned mass PvP. Those on the other side see the complaints about the faction lockdown as a ‘threat’ to ‘their’ PvP.
Both sides appear to lack the imagination to see that both could have been accommodated with a better model – and there are enough sensible alternative suggestions about this to preclude the need for repetition here...
... go read...
So to the TES fans who can’t accept that the game is moving away from single player and exclusive PvE – embrace the change for a while before you pronounce it a disaster. It’s an MMO and is going to have MMO stuff in it...
... nothing inherently wrong in that...
But foremost – for those blinkered ‘twitch-typers’ who think I am one of the prior crowd – please READ before posting.
I am happy about raids, I missed them in GW2. I am entirely convinced, and have been from the start, that a three way factionalised PvP model (as a standalone) has merit – proven from years of DaoC, a game I commonly hear excellent things about in this very regard.
What I and many others object to is that in order to introduce this exciting element of PvP play into a mainstream ES game, the developers clumsily tore out one of the main reasons a vast army of players play TES – for the sense of freedom to explore.
It was NOT necessary.
BOTH player styles could have been accommodated without taking anything from the other.
Pretending that it couldn’t, or dismissing the concerns of TES players about this issue is typical of a variety of posters in these forums - those who have commented before they have a handle on the entire issue; committed trolls; brainless flamers and the endlessly vocal minority of those who just like to hate.
The game should have had both three way PvP AND free exploration.
It doesn’t, and there are many of us who don’t like it.
If you think that makes me ‘anti-mass-PvP’ after reading what I have posted – none of which criticises the presence of PvP, raiding, or any other typical MMO element; well... then I doubt I could make you understand what that makes you.
I want PvE freedom AND factionalised mass PvP.
If you want to say something useful – tell me WHY I can’t have that?
So to the TES fans who can’t accept that the game is moving away from single player and exclusive PvE – embrace the change for a while before you pronounce it a disaster. It’s an MMO and is going to have MMO stuff in it...
BOTH player styles could have been accommodated without taking anything from the other.
Pretending that it couldn’t, or dismissing the concerns of TES players about this issue is typical of a variety of posters in these forums - those who have commented before they have a handle on the entire issue; committed trolls; brainless flamers and the endlessly vocal minority of those who just like to hate.
The game should have had both three way PvP AND free exploration.
It doesn’t, and there are many of us who don’t like it.
If you think that makes me ‘anti-mass-PvP’ after reading what I have posted – none of which criticises the presence of PvP, raiding, or any other typical MMO element; well... then I doubt I could make you understand what that makes you.
I want PvE freedom AND factionalised mass PvP.
If you want to say something useful – tell me WHY I can’t have that?
It is sad that people think that it is moving away from SP ... it is different game, from different company so there will be new bethesda SP TES Game every SP TES fan can play. This will be MMO and MMOS are not for people who don't like MMOs
For second part ... i think you are absolutely right ... there are ways to accomodate both. It will be instanced game and you can make different instances to have different settings. You can make exploration instance, open world PvP instances, easy PvE instances, hard PvE instances and Extreme neckbeard only ultra hard PvE instances ... they even have megaserver so there will allways be big enough population so different instances won't feel empty.
But in the end if i have to choose one ... i am for faction lock and PvE only. But it is sad, that we have to choose at all.
I have to agree that closing off exploration of Areas outside of your factions zones is just plain silly...
I hate to use it as an Example, but even in World of Warcraft, which many believe to work off of the traditional MMO Design, you could explore into enemy zones, but you couldn't engage the enemy in their homelands, you could only do so if the enemy attacked you first. I found that to be quite a fair system, and it didnt make me feel like I was being locked out of content because of my faction choice.
If anything, segregating the populace into faction specific areas breeds more disloyalty than faction pride. If my side is getting whooped in Cyrodiil, I might be inclined to switch factions and explore their Areas, even though my favourite race might belong to another faction. Now, If I find im having a better experience in the other faction I would make that my new home, effectively abandoning my old one.
"Great!" you might think. I've just enriched my play time by finding the faction I like most... but if that choice boils down to whether 1 faction has more detailed areas or better quest lines, it wont be long before everyone is jumping on that bandwagon, with the by-product of that creating a population imbalance in PvP.
I don't see that as being fun for anyone, including "The Winning Side"...
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Just a thanks to the one-track-minded rejoinders for attempting to change the debate to one which might be characterised as ‘it’s my PvP way, or the highway...’
Allow me to once more inject reason into the discourse for those who joined the thread halfway through and think these self-serving and extremely limited points of view are representative of the debate.
The playschool logic crowd would have you believe that in meeting the interesting and potentially successful mass PvP ‘DaoC model’ the developers have gone for, that, in line with what they claim to have done, you have to rip out one of the most cherished and successful elements of TES...
... the freedom to explore...
Those with less complex thoughts on the issue seem to think (on both sides of the argument) that to have full exploration you need to remove the planned mass PvP. Those on the other side see the complaints about the faction lockdown as a ‘threat’ to ‘their’ PvP.
Both sides appear to lack the imagination to see that both could have been accommodated with a better model – and there are enough sensible alternative suggestions about this to preclude the need for repetition here...
... go read...
So to the TES fans who can’t accept that the game is moving away from single player and exclusive PvE – embrace the change for a while before you pronounce it a disaster. It’s an MMO and is going to have MMO stuff in it...
... nothing inherently wrong in that...
But foremost – for those blinkered ‘twitch-typers’ who think I am one of the prior crowd – please READ before posting.
I am happy about raids, I missed them in GW2. I am entirely convinced, and have been from the start, that a three way factionalised PvP model (as a standalone) has merit – proven from years of DaoC, a game I commonly hear excellent things about in this very regard.
What I and many others object to is that in order to introduce this exciting element of PvP play into a mainstream ES game, the developers clumsily tore out one of the main reasons a vast army of players play TES – for the sense of freedom to explore.
It was NOT necessary.
BOTH player styles could have been accommodated without taking anything from the other.
Pretending that it couldn’t, or dismissing the concerns of TES players about this issue is typical of a variety of posters in these forums - those who have commented before they have a handle on the entire issue; committed trolls; brainless flamers and the endlessly vocal minority of those who just like to hate.
The game should have had both three way PvP AND free exploration.
It doesn’t, and there are many of us who don’t like it.
If you think that makes me ‘anti-mass-PvP’ after reading what I have posted – none of which criticises the presence of PvP, raiding, or any other typical MMO element; well... then I doubt I could make you understand what that makes you.
I want PvE freedom AND factionalised mass PvP and a fiew FFA/arena-like contexts (so we can have some e-peen-wars within our own factions).
If you want to say something useful – tell me WHY I can’t have that?
Quoting for truth and since because of my crappy english I couldn't say it better.
Just added a little something in red
Old school french hardcore whiner. Online since T4C.
I was "Namless" and "Daroot" in AO (Rk2) Been known as "Vindicar" (Aion (EU), SWTOR (EU), WoW (EU). Recently Known as "Wundicar" and "Wundee" in Age of Wushu (US) and Wulin (EU)
Franky Rivera Reyes , From the Reyes Brotherhood (Star Citizen)
Comments
Just a thanks to the one-track-minded rejoinders for attempting to change the debate to one which might be characterised as ‘it’s my PvP way, or the highway...’
Allow me to once more inject reason into the discourse for those who joined the thread halfway through and think these self-serving and extremely limited points of view are representative of the debate.
The playschool logic crowd would have you believe that in meeting the interesting and potentially successful mass PvP ‘DaoC model’ the developers have gone for, that, in line with what they claim to have done, you have to rip out one of the most cherished and successful elements of TES...
... the freedom to explore...
Those with less complex thoughts on the issue seem to think (on both sides of the argument) that to have full exploration you need to remove the planned mass PvP. Those on the other side see the complaints about the faction lockdown as a ‘threat’ to ‘their’ PvP.
Both sides appear to lack the imagination to see that both could have been accommodated with a better model – and there are enough sensible alternative suggestions about this to preclude the need for repetition here...
... go read...
So to the TES fans who can’t accept that the game is moving away from single player and exclusive PvE – embrace the change for a while before you pronounce it a disaster. It’s an MMO and is going to have MMO stuff in it...
... nothing inherently wrong in that...
But foremost – for those blinkered ‘twitch-typers’ who think I am one of the prior crowd – please READ before posting.
I am happy about raids, I missed them in GW2. I am entirely convinced, and have been from the start, that a three way factionalised PvP model (as a standalone) has merit – proven from years of DaoC, a game I commonly hear excellent things about in this very regard.
What I and many others object to is that in order to introduce this exciting element of PvP play into a mainstream ES game, the developers clumsily tore out one of the main reasons a vast army of players play TES – for the sense of freedom to explore.
It was NOT necessary.
BOTH player styles could have been accommodated without taking anything from the other.
Pretending that it couldn’t, or dismissing the concerns of TES players about this issue is typical of a variety of posters in these forums - those who have commented before they have a handle on the entire issue; committed trolls; brainless flamers and the endlessly vocal minority of those who just like to hate.
The game should have had both three way PvP AND free exploration.
It doesn’t, and there are many of us who don’t like it.
If you think that makes me ‘anti-mass-PvP’ after reading what I have posted – none of which criticises the presence of PvP, raiding, or any other typical MMO element; well... then I doubt I could make you understand what that makes you.
I want PvE freedom AND factionalised mass PvP.
If you want to say something useful – tell me WHY I can’t have that?
It is sad that people think that it is moving away from SP ... it is different game, from different company so there will be new bethesda SP TES Game every SP TES fan can play. This will be MMO and MMOS are not for people who don't like MMOs
For second part ... i think you are absolutely right ... there are ways to accomodate both. It will be instanced game and you can make different instances to have different settings. You can make exploration instance, open world PvP instances, easy PvE instances, hard PvE instances and Extreme neckbeard only ultra hard PvE instances ... they even have megaserver so there will allways be big enough population so different instances won't feel empty.
But in the end if i have to choose one ... i am for faction lock and PvE only. But it is sad, that we have to choose at all.
I have to agree that closing off exploration of Areas outside of your factions zones is just plain silly...
I hate to use it as an Example, but even in World of Warcraft, which many believe to work off of the traditional MMO Design, you could explore into enemy zones, but you couldn't engage the enemy in their homelands, you could only do so if the enemy attacked you first. I found that to be quite a fair system, and it didnt make me feel like I was being locked out of content because of my faction choice.
If anything, segregating the populace into faction specific areas breeds more disloyalty than faction pride. If my side is getting whooped in Cyrodiil, I might be inclined to switch factions and explore their Areas, even though my favourite race might belong to another faction. Now, If I find im having a better experience in the other faction I would make that my new home, effectively abandoning my old one.
"Great!" you might think. I've just enriched my play time by finding the faction I like most... but if that choice boils down to whether 1 faction has more detailed areas or better quest lines, it wont be long before everyone is jumping on that bandwagon, with the by-product of that creating a population imbalance in PvP.
I don't see that as being fun for anyone, including "The Winning Side"...
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Quoting for truth and since because of my crappy english I couldn't say it better.
Just added a little something in red
Old school french hardcore whiner. Online since T4C.
I was "Namless" and "Daroot" in AO (Rk2)
Been known as "Vindicar" (Aion (EU), SWTOR (EU), WoW (EU).
Recently Known as "Wundicar" and "Wundee" in Age of Wushu (US) and Wulin (EU)
Franky Rivera Reyes , From the Reyes Brotherhood (Star Citizen)