Tab targetting is fine but I wouldn't mind if they chose to go the other way. It would be something different for a change. I really do not want to see people jump around in pvp like they are on pogo sticks. It looks stupid.
I really hope you are not trying to imply tab targeting with projectilles and etc that lock on and only require a button to be hit requires more skill than actually having to aim at your target and avoid hitting friendlies.
Neither of which were action games, that aside. I'm not sure where you're going with this TBH. I know each game back then had diversive features, which really has nothing to do with my post, did you read the post i was quoting/replying to?
The guy said older MMO combat is for lazy people, and those of us who enjoyed it are holding the genre back. I disagree because:
When I want fast paced action i turn to games like M&B-Warband, as they simply do it better. Good luck having a good amount of cordination within the game though you'll need vent for that. If you're typing you're dying, or causing others to, as you're essentially asleep at the wheel in a twitch based game, where split second actions actually matter. You don't have this problem in a turn-based system.
The overall point is that they're not designed for "lazy people" as the post i quoted suggested. They serve a distinct purpose (communication), which was what this genre used to be about, that was the underlying point of each offering. Yet not so much any longer, due to this progress some of us want to hold back. Or at least step away from.
Yes, I read the post you quoted, as it was part of my post and another poster earlier.
You said that older mmo's used a turn based system, I was pointing out that neither Asherons Call nor Ultima Online used a combat system that was like Everquests, or DAOC's, which has become your "main" mmo style of combat system that the majority of mmo's these days are based on.
Asherons call combat, you could actually dodge based on movement, watching mages in pvp, people would be strafing around dodging their spells, etc. It wasn't like EQ in that regard. Melee combat was also a bit different in regards to how you had to select the attack height you could attack low or high, etc) and your block, as well as quick or longer but more powerful attacks.
UO on the other hand also had movement play a more important part. "Hit and run" was a popular tactic back in the day, running around, strafing, mage spells that could be placed on the gorund, etc) among other things.
Neither of these games played nor "felt" like the combat that EQ had, which DAOC is more similar to.
I was just pointing this out to you. I don't agree with the other poster calling it "lazy," as you'd die quickly in mostof the games if you went afk. I'm just saying that there's room for different kinds of combat in mmo's.
Originally posted by Celusios I really hope you are not trying to imply tab targeting with projectilles and etc that lock on and only require a button to be hit requires more skill than actually having to aim at your target and avoid hitting friendlies.
I hope your are not trying to imply that is actually what we are implying. If it is, you have 100% completely missed our arguments for a tab targeting system.
Healing would be nothing short of a cluster **** with out tab targeting. Can you imagine trying to heal an 8 man using the Skyrim combat system? LOL. Would not happen.
As had been said earlier, a tab targeting puts the weight on intelligence, an 'action' combat system puts the weight on relfexs. I want this game to use the former. If I wanted to exercise the latter I'd go play BF3 on hardcore mode.
Also, does anyone else not want 'new and more modern' combat mechanics? I liked the old ones just fine, and personally I think everything has sucked since DAoC. I want a game that takes the best of the old and combines it with a bit of the new. Not a new game that hypes to the world that they have the next greatest thing in the MMO world, only to watch it fail spectacturly or not be innovative at all. If it an't broke, don't fix it. Every game in the last 10 years has tried to 'fix it', and in the end only thing they innovated on was getting the combat to appeal to simplier and simplier minds...
Healing could be based around aiming, but they can also open it up to having AOE heals for people near you and other things. There are other way sto balance stuff out besides having range all be target locked and /face /stick.
MAybe It's just me, but I have played mmo's for a long time, and I've grown tired of the same old combat system in most. Mainly drawing from the EQ formula with it's tab target and hotkey focused combat. It's the same basci system used by the majority of mmo's and it gets a bit old imo.
I'd much rather have more visceral combat that has a bit of focus on players, still making sure it's tactical and rewards strategy, but also one that rewards aiming and other things. I would just like ak good in-depth combat system that's "fun" to play, and for me the actiony combat I find more "fun" then playing another mmo with it's usual tab-target, spam hotkeys over and over. I'm not saying it doesn't take "skill" or that it has no tactics, I'm just saying for me personally, It's getting a bit old and long in the tooth.
Originally posted by Qallidexz
Originally posted by Normandy7 I really do not want to see people jump around in pvp like they are on pogo sticks. It looks stupid.
Well., that's what you're going to get with twitch-based combat.
No, plenty of "twitch" action gameers despise this as well and that's why some games stop it from happening.
They can EASILY stop this by making jump cost stamina, and makingit slow you down once you do it, etc. So if you do think "lemme jump around" the only thing it will accomplish is exhausting your character and making you a super easy target to hit because of it.
That's why some games like Red Orchestra don't have this problem, you won't see people firing their guns and "jumping around" because it merely exhausts you and makes you easier to hit. Instead it's much more useful to use smart cover and tactics.
I hear that phrase used a lot... 'spam hotkeys over and over'. You are quite clearly oversimplifing the combat system of tab targeting, on about the same level that call of duty is a simplification of real life firefights. Go use some COD tactics in the army, they will get you about as far as just 'spamming hotkeys over and over' will in a proper tab targeting system like DAoC. And if you can't even grasp that your ideas are that much of a oversimilification, im not going to even bother trying to rebute how much that healing method would fail.
I hear that phrase used a lot... 'spam hotkeys over and over'. You are quite clearly oversimplifing the combat system of tab targeting, on about the same level that call of duty is a simplification of real life firefights. Go use some COD tactics in the army, they will get you about as far as just 'spamming hotkeys over and over' will in a proper tab targeting system like DAoC. And if you can't even grasp that your ideas are that much of a oversimilification, im not going to even bother trying to rebute how much that healing method would fail.
You press the hotkeys in different orders, but the impact of pressing hotkeys, vs a more action focus isn't hte same. I find the ladder better then the former, that's just my opinion and obviously not yours.
As has been said time and again in this thread, the "skill" of a combat system is not exclusive to tab target, or not tab targeting, the underlying combat system determine sthat more.
You can have both, I simply prefer to actually Aim rather then have a tab target and hotkey setup.
Originally posted by Celusios I really hope you are not trying to imply tab targeting with projectilles and etc that lock on and only require a button to be hit requires more skill than actually having to aim at your target and avoid hitting friendlies.
I hope your are not trying to imply that is actually what we are implying. If it is, you have 100% completely missed our arguments for a tab targeting system.
I hope you understood the context of my statement. I was more of so asking if you all were implying that tab-targeting was skilled or even needed these days?
So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.
I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.
I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.
My fellow DAoC warriors! So many games nowadays are moving towards the "free-form" targetting system (not to be confused with real-time combat, which is a different thing, and you can have both tab-target and real time), but I remember the glory days, where tab-targetting was all there is. Some of the newer MMO'ers tend to get it into their heads that no tab-targetting is somehow "better", because it takes more "skill". Well, running through people, jumping around them, strafing side to side, all that is just an annoyance, as the true MMO fans know, those who played DAoC, real skill comes from knowing what to do, and when to do it (spell-wise, and ability-wise) not from trying to run through your opponent (hense the /face, and /stick commands had to be implemented).
Free-form targetting does not make for fun combat, tab-targetting makes for fun combat, but without tab-targetting, it's just little kids who are used to playing Call of Duty, jumping around their opponents, and over their heads, to gain an advantage, because they're not smart enough to figure out which spells they need to cast and when, or capable of figuring out what abilities to use at the right times, so they just jump around a lot. Let's avoid this in CU, and get back to the good ole' days, you with me?
So basically you want a turn based MMO?
Every Tab targetting game features bunny hopping, circle strafing and other wild movements. The difference is in a tab target game, it might be effective but looks absolutely silly, where as in an action game its part of the tactical game approach.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
My fellow DAoC warriors! So many games nowadays are moving towards the "free-form" targetting system (not to be confused with real-time combat, which is a different thing, and you can have both tab-target and real time), but I remember the glory days, where tab-targetting was all there is. Some of the newer MMO'ers tend to get it into their heads that no tab-targetting is somehow "better", because it takes more "skill". Well, running through people, jumping around them, strafing side to side, all that is just an annoyance, as the true MMO fans know, those who played DAoC, real skill comes from knowing what to do, and when to do it (spell-wise, and ability-wise) not from trying to run through your opponent (hense the /face, and /stick commands had to be implemented).
Free-form targetting does not make for fun combat, tab-targetting makes for fun combat, but without tab-targetting, it's just little kids who are used to playing Call of Duty, jumping around their opponents, and over their heads, to gain an advantage, because they're not smart enough to figure out which spells they need to cast and when, or capable of figuring out what abilities to use at the right times, so they just jump around a lot. Let's avoid this in CU, and get back to the good ole' days, you with me?
Clicker! Evolve or follow the dinosaurs.
ps: If you can run through your oponent, so the game is lacking body blocking, then that game has a major flaw. That has nothing to do with free-form or tab targeting. Most mmo's have that flaw. And it sux monkeyballs.
My fellow DAoC warriors! So many games nowadays are moving towards the "free-form" targetting system (not to be confused with real-time combat, which is a different thing, and you can have both tab-target and real time), but I remember the glory days, where tab-targetting was all there is. Some of the newer MMO'ers tend to get it into their heads that no tab-targetting is somehow "better", because it takes more "skill". Well, running through people, jumping around them, strafing side to side, all that is just an annoyance, as the true MMO fans know, those who played DAoC, real skill comes from knowing what to do, and when to do it (spell-wise, and ability-wise) not from trying to run through your opponent (hense the /face, and /stick commands had to be implemented).
Free-form targetting does not make for fun combat, tab-targetting makes for fun combat, but without tab-targetting, it's just little kids who are used to playing Call of Duty, jumping around their opponents, and over their heads, to gain an advantage, because they're not smart enough to figure out which spells they need to cast and when, or capable of figuring out what abilities to use at the right times, so they just jump around a lot. Let's avoid this in CU, and get back to the good ole' days, you with me?
Clicker! Evolve or follow the dinosaurs.
ps: If you can run through your oponent, so the game is lacking body blocking, then that game has a major flaw. That has nothing to do with free-form or tab targeting. Most mmo's have that flaw. And it sux monkeyballs.
Thats true, body blocking should be in every MMO. Ironically I think COD and most FPS have body blocking, which the OP seems to like referencing so much when he talks about running through the other players "like a little kid".
Devs should go for realism, and ask real soldiers if they think movement in combat is essential. Lol
Healing would be nothing short of a cluster **** with out tab targeting. Can you imagine trying to heal an 8 man using the Skyrim combat system? LOL. Would not happen.
Excellent point - the same people that want aiming combat systems seem to be the same type of person that would chew out a healer for not being healed in time, nor undestand that DPS are usually expendable.
Of course, the counter to this is "cone heal" .. which is ridiculous because you either have to be immediately next to the target, or you're going to be healing people that don't actually need healing. Single target heals in mass RvR wouldn't exist.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
I'd like to throw in some additional food for thought:
Body Blocking, which I believe you're actually talking about collision detection for the most part, was used in Warhammer Online, as well as several other games. It was a pretty decent feature, which gave tanks a purpose in RvR; but it caused tremendous problems when idiots would run up a ramp and then block tactical retreats or movements from occuring from either side.
Now, throw an aiming system into that mess.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
Healing would be nothing short of a cluster **** with out tab targeting. Can you imagine trying to heal an 8 man using the Skyrim combat system? LOL. Would not happen.
Excellent point - the same people that want aiming combat systems seem to be the same type of person that would chew out a healer for not being healed in time, nor undestand that DPS are usually expendable.
Of course, the counter to this is "cone heal" .. which is ridiculous because you either have to be immediately next to the target, or you're going to be healing people that don't actually need healing. Single target heals in mass RvR wouldn't exist.
TF2 has a medic that heals, and it's an fps game...
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
I'd like to throw in some additional food for thought:
Body Blocking, which I believe you're actually talking about collision detection for the most part, was used in Warhammer Online, as well as several other games. It was a pretty decent feature, which gave tanks a purpose in RvR; but it caused tremendous problems when idiots would run up a ramp and then block tactical retreats or movements from occuring from either side.
Now, throw an aiming system into that mess.
How does aiming have ANY affect on what you just said???
BTW there can be counters to tank blocking, if the game is designed around it. Allowing smaller /more agilie characters/races an ability to leap , mages an ability to "levitate" or knock out of hte way with a ispell, etc.
In a well designed combat system with collision detection and the ability for tanks to block things, there has to be counters and ways around it.
So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.
I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.
I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.
Have you ever PvPed n a tab target game?
Are people really that clueless to think that tab target games people just stand still and press 123412341234? thats the impression this thread is giving me.
Tab targeting only produces standing around in PvE where the tank locks the mob down for the dps to stand still and whack away. PvP is always constant motion.
And latency will always be an issue. Not everyone lives close enough to their server that latency isnt an issue.
Good points Plastic... Anyways, a couple people were throwing the term "turn-based" around, I'm not sure those people really know what that means... Just about every single MMO, DAoC included, has real-time combat. Turn based is actually like a chess game, where I make one move, then I can't do anything until my opponent makes their move, then they can't do anything till I make my move, like a table-top RPG, that's turn-based...
The targeting system has nothing to do with turn based or real-time, no matter what, it's going to be real-time, regardless of what targeting type they go with. There's really no MMO's, that I know of, that are turn-based.
And no, I don't want everyone standing still, people are still moving around, getting into better positions on the battlefield, they're just not "jumping over their opponents heads", or whatever, so its not retarded...
Healing would be nothing short of a cluster **** with out tab targeting. Can you imagine trying to heal an 8 man using the Skyrim combat system? LOL. Would not happen.
Excellent point - the same people that want aiming combat systems seem to be the same type of person that would chew out a healer for not being healed in time, nor undestand that DPS are usually expendable.
Of course, the counter to this is "cone heal" .. which is ridiculous because you either have to be immediately next to the target, or you're going to be healing people that don't actually need healing. Single target heals in mass RvR wouldn't exist.
TF2 has a medic that heals, and it's an fps game...
Originally posted by Plastic-Metal
I'd like to throw in some additional food for thought:
Body Blocking, which I believe you're actually talking about collision detection for the most part, was used in Warhammer Online, as well as several other games. It was a pretty decent feature, which gave tanks a purpose in RvR; but it caused tremendous problems when idiots would run up a ramp and then block tactical retreats or movements from occuring from either side.
Now, throw an aiming system into that mess.
How does aiming have ANY affect on what you just said???
BTW there can be counters to tank blocking, if the game is designed around it. Allowing smaller /more agilie characters/races an ability to leap , mages an ability to "levitate" or knock out of hte way with a ispell, etc.
In a well designed combat system with collision detection and the ability for tanks to block things, there has to be counters and ways around it.
Stiler, I'm not sure of your thought process, but if you want your arguments to be valid in life.. don't compare apples to oranges. Team Fortress is an FPS game.. not an RPG or MMO, by any means.
My second post was a completely separate thought from my previous post, but pointed out the difficulties that could arise from including what others previously discussed, which was body blocking ... also known as collison detection.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.
I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.
I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.
Have you ever PvPed n a tab target game?
Are people really that clueless to think that tab target games people just stand still and press 123412341234? thats the impression this thread is giving me.
Tab targeting only produces standing around in PvE where the tank locks the mob down for the dps to stand still and whack away. PvP is always constant motion.
And latency will always be an issue. Not everyone lives close enough to their server that latency isnt an issue.
Yea. that's the problem, all these people who've never played an MMO before are advocating twitch combat, cuz they think it's somehow more complex, or more advanced, or more innovative, but in reality, it's not any of those things, just a game-wrecker, that's all.
Yea. that's the problem, all these people who've never played an MMO before are advocating twitch combat, cuz they think it's somehow more complex, or more advanced, or more innovative, but in reality, it's not any of those things, just a game-wrecker, that's all.
I can't wait until Mark Jacobs absolutely destroys their argument and announces a tab-target based system with "innovation" to the system.
My name is Plastic-Metal and my name is an oxymoron.
So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.
I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.
I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.
Exactly, its old school and a lot of us want that tactical gameplay again.
The teaser trailer even says 'A Tri-Realm, RvR-Focused, "Old School" MMORPG'.
p.s - standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war" - that is not even close to the way the combat works.
Also, in the first 3 minutes of the one hour interview Mark Jacobs had with MMORPG.com, I think he answers the question of skill-based combat vs. tab-targeted combat.
So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.
I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.
I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.
Have you ever PvPed n a tab target game?
Are people really that clueless to think that tab target games people just stand still and press 123412341234? thats the impression this thread is giving me.
Tab targeting only produces standing around in PvE where the tank locks the mob down for the dps to stand still and whack away. PvP is always constant motion.
And latency will always be an issue. Not everyone lives close enough to their server that latency isnt an issue.
Yea. that's the problem, all these people who've never played an MMO before are advocating twitch combat, cuz they think it's somehow more complex, or more advanced, or more innovative, but in reality, it's not any of those things, just a game-wrecker, that's all.
Don't assume things. I've played every major MMO since before EverQuest including DAoC. And that style of combat was innovative back then, but have you played DAOC recently? That combat is pretty boring by todays standards.
Thats just me though, I've grown to enjoy action combat in MMOs. I still enjoy strategies and tactical advantages. But I don't think that memorizing 100 different skills is the bees knees. Dodging your attack, and then stabbing you in the back however...is pretty awesome.
You're allowed to have your opinion. But i don't appreciate the way you are trying to make anyone who doesn't agree with you out to be a child or an idiot COD fan. You're the one who is acting childish.
So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.
I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.
I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.
Have you ever PvPed n a tab target game?
Are people really that clueless to think that tab target games people just stand still and press 123412341234? thats the impression this thread is giving me.
Tab targeting only produces standing around in PvE where the tank locks the mob down for the dps to stand still and whack away. PvP is always constant motion.
And latency will always be an issue. Not everyone lives close enough to their server that latency isnt an issue.
Yea. that's the problem, all these people who've never played an MMO before are advocating twitch combat, cuz they think it's somehow more complex, or more advanced, or more innovative, but in reality, it's not any of those things, just a game-wrecker, that's all.
Don't assume things. I've played every major MMO since before EverQuest including DAoC. And that style of combat was innovative back then, but have you played DAOC recently? That combat is pretty boring by todays standards.
Thats just me though, I've grown to enjoy action combat in MMOs. I still enjoy strategies and tactical advantages. But I don't think that memorizing 100 different skills is the bees knees. Dodging your attack, and then stabbing you in the back however...is pretty awesome.
You're allowed to have your opinion. But i don't appreciate the way you are trying to make anyone who doesn't agree with you out to be a child or an idiot COD fan. You're the one who is acting childish.
I've played many games, and DAoC I thought had the most fun combat system and PvP of any game I've ever played... and I can understand if you want a twitch-based MMOFPS combat system, all I'm saying is this isn't the place to do it... From what I understand, Darkfall's still going fairly strong, and has an expansion and/or sequal coming out, maybe you should look into that.
Comments
Well., that's what you're going to get with twitch-based combat.
Yes, I read the post you quoted, as it was part of my post and another poster earlier.
You said that older mmo's used a turn based system, I was pointing out that neither Asherons Call nor Ultima Online used a combat system that was like Everquests, or DAOC's, which has become your "main" mmo style of combat system that the majority of mmo's these days are based on.
Asherons call combat, you could actually dodge based on movement, watching mages in pvp, people would be strafing around dodging their spells, etc. It wasn't like EQ in that regard. Melee combat was also a bit different in regards to how you had to select the attack height you could attack low or high, etc) and your block, as well as quick or longer but more powerful attacks.
UO on the other hand also had movement play a more important part. "Hit and run" was a popular tactic back in the day, running around, strafing, mage spells that could be placed on the gorund, etc) among other things.
Neither of these games played nor "felt" like the combat that EQ had, which DAOC is more similar to.
I was just pointing this out to you. I don't agree with the other poster calling it "lazy," as you'd die quickly in mostof the games if you went afk. I'm just saying that there's room for different kinds of combat in mmo's.
I hope your are not trying to imply that is actually what we are implying. If it is, you have 100% completely missed our arguments for a tab targeting system.
Healing could be based around aiming, but they can also open it up to having AOE heals for people near you and other things. There are other way sto balance stuff out besides having range all be target locked and /face /stick.
MAybe It's just me, but I have played mmo's for a long time, and I've grown tired of the same old combat system in most. Mainly drawing from the EQ formula with it's tab target and hotkey focused combat. It's the same basci system used by the majority of mmo's and it gets a bit old imo.
I'd much rather have more visceral combat that has a bit of focus on players, still making sure it's tactical and rewards strategy, but also one that rewards aiming and other things. I would just like ak good in-depth combat system that's "fun" to play, and for me the actiony combat I find more "fun" then playing another mmo with it's usual tab-target, spam hotkeys over and over. I'm not saying it doesn't take "skill" or that it has no tactics, I'm just saying for me personally, It's getting a bit old and long in the tooth.
No, plenty of "twitch" action gameers despise this as well and that's why some games stop it from happening.
They can EASILY stop this by making jump cost stamina, and makingit slow you down once you do it, etc. So if you do think "lemme jump around" the only thing it will accomplish is exhausting your character and making you a super easy target to hit because of it.
That's why some games like Red Orchestra don't have this problem, you won't see people firing their guns and "jumping around" because it merely exhausts you and makes you easier to hit. Instead it's much more useful to use smart cover and tactics.
I hear that phrase used a lot... 'spam hotkeys over and over'. You are quite clearly oversimplifing the combat system of tab targeting, on about the same level that call of duty is a simplification of real life firefights. Go use some COD tactics in the army, they will get you about as far as just 'spamming hotkeys over and over' will in a proper tab targeting system like DAoC. And if you can't even grasp that your ideas are that much of a oversimilification, im not going to even bother trying to rebute how much that healing method would fail.
You press the hotkeys in different orders, but the impact of pressing hotkeys, vs a more action focus isn't hte same. I find the ladder better then the former, that's just my opinion and obviously not yours.
As has been said time and again in this thread, the "skill" of a combat system is not exclusive to tab target, or not tab targeting, the underlying combat system determine sthat more.
You can have both, I simply prefer to actually Aim rather then have a tab target and hotkey setup.
I hope you understood the context of my statement. I was more of so asking if you all were implying that tab-targeting was skilled or even needed these days?
So the OP just wants everyone standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war". That is pretty old school, but not very fun or interesting now that latency isn't a big issue anymore.
I think there are benefits to both systems, but movement is definitely something that makes combat more interesting. The OP is rather condescending though basically saying anyone who doesn't play his way is an idiot little kid who plays COD.
I hate COD but I still think action combat is a blast in MMOs.
So basically you want a turn based MMO?
Every Tab targetting game features bunny hopping, circle strafing and other wild movements. The difference is in a tab target game, it might be effective but looks absolutely silly, where as in an action game its part of the tactical game approach.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Clicker! Evolve or follow the dinosaurs.
ps: If you can run through your oponent, so the game is lacking body blocking, then that game has a major flaw. That has nothing to do with free-form or tab targeting. Most mmo's have that flaw. And it sux monkeyballs.
https://www.facebook.com/FUtilez ||| https://twitter.com/FUtilez ||| https://www.youtube.com/futilezguild
Thats true, body blocking should be in every MMO. Ironically I think COD and most FPS have body blocking, which the OP seems to like referencing so much when he talks about running through the other players "like a little kid".
Devs should go for realism, and ask real soldiers if they think movement in combat is essential. Lol
Excellent point - the same people that want aiming combat systems seem to be the same type of person that would chew out a healer for not being healed in time, nor undestand that DPS are usually expendable.
Of course, the counter to this is "cone heal" .. which is ridiculous because you either have to be immediately next to the target, or you're going to be healing people that don't actually need healing. Single target heals in mass RvR wouldn't exist.
I'd like to throw in some additional food for thought:
Body Blocking, which I believe you're actually talking about collision detection for the most part, was used in Warhammer Online, as well as several other games. It was a pretty decent feature, which gave tanks a purpose in RvR; but it caused tremendous problems when idiots would run up a ramp and then block tactical retreats or movements from occuring from either side.
Now, throw an aiming system into that mess.
TF2 has a medic that heals, and it's an fps game...
How does aiming have ANY affect on what you just said???
BTW there can be counters to tank blocking, if the game is designed around it. Allowing smaller /more agilie characters/races an ability to leap , mages an ability to "levitate" or knock out of hte way with a ispell, etc.
In a well designed combat system with collision detection and the ability for tanks to block things, there has to be counters and ways around it.
Have you ever PvPed n a tab target game?
Are people really that clueless to think that tab target games people just stand still and press 123412341234? thats the impression this thread is giving me.
Tab targeting only produces standing around in PvE where the tank locks the mob down for the dps to stand still and whack away. PvP is always constant motion.
And latency will always be an issue. Not everyone lives close enough to their server that latency isnt an issue.
Good points Plastic... Anyways, a couple people were throwing the term "turn-based" around, I'm not sure those people really know what that means... Just about every single MMO, DAoC included, has real-time combat. Turn based is actually like a chess game, where I make one move, then I can't do anything until my opponent makes their move, then they can't do anything till I make my move, like a table-top RPG, that's turn-based...
The targeting system has nothing to do with turn based or real-time, no matter what, it's going to be real-time, regardless of what targeting type they go with. There's really no MMO's, that I know of, that are turn-based.
And no, I don't want everyone standing still, people are still moving around, getting into better positions on the battlefield, they're just not "jumping over their opponents heads", or whatever, so its not retarded...
Stiler, I'm not sure of your thought process, but if you want your arguments to be valid in life.. don't compare apples to oranges. Team Fortress is an FPS game.. not an RPG or MMO, by any means.
My second post was a completely separate thought from my previous post, but pointed out the difficulties that could arise from including what others previously discussed, which was body blocking ... also known as collison detection.
Yea. that's the problem, all these people who've never played an MMO before are advocating twitch combat, cuz they think it's somehow more complex, or more advanced, or more innovative, but in reality, it's not any of those things, just a game-wrecker, that's all.
I can't wait until Mark Jacobs absolutely destroys their argument and announces a tab-target based system with "innovation" to the system.
Exactly, its old school and a lot of us want that tactical gameplay again.
The teaser trailer even says 'A Tri-Realm, RvR-Focused, "Old School" MMORPG'.
p.s - standing still facing each other and playing "hotkey war" - that is not even close to the way the combat works.
Also, in the first 3 minutes of the one hour interview Mark Jacobs had with MMORPG.com, I think he answers the question of skill-based combat vs. tab-targeted combat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxHkAJm_-0A&t=2m10s
Edit: I think I misunderstood the clip - my bad. Does he mean skill based modular classes instead of set classes?
Don't assume things. I've played every major MMO since before EverQuest including DAoC. And that style of combat was innovative back then, but have you played DAOC recently? That combat is pretty boring by todays standards.
Thats just me though, I've grown to enjoy action combat in MMOs. I still enjoy strategies and tactical advantages. But I don't think that memorizing 100 different skills is the bees knees. Dodging your attack, and then stabbing you in the back however...is pretty awesome.
You're allowed to have your opinion. But i don't appreciate the way you are trying to make anyone who doesn't agree with you out to be a child or an idiot COD fan. You're the one who is acting childish.
I've played many games, and DAoC I thought had the most fun combat system and PvP of any game I've ever played... and I can understand if you want a twitch-based MMOFPS combat system, all I'm saying is this isn't the place to do it... From what I understand, Darkfall's still going fairly strong, and has an expansion and/or sequal coming out, maybe you should look into that.