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"US free-to-play audience outnumbers pay-to-play 6 to 1"
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I just got back from dinner and please, don't apologize. Here is where he was apparently "trying to let me know."
"They need something to look real to replace their horrible life. Take it elsewhere, I don't need to be reminded of your inadequacies all the time in my games. I don't want to wonder if the dingleberry next to me is paying the game or not to be there. I don't want to imagine that there are people in the game that think they should get regular content updates for nothing in return but a warm seat. These games are not charity and neither is the internet, you knew that when it cost something to come online. The internet isn't all free and never was supposed to be. You pay to connect and that isn't the end of it. It's not a hobby for the destitute nor the services stemming from it.
For all I care, people that want to play free games can go pick up sticks and rocks and play cowboys and indians in the woods. That's a free game. Tainting MMOs with the need to be free to satisfy slackers that want to be involved in grown folks bidness but can't afford it can head on down the road to cheapo town."
He is of course being emotional and rude about everything. And then he passes it off as if his it's ok to act that way because of his personality type. And I agree that he appears to be acting nothing like an INTJ. He is being emotional and supporting none of his opinions with anything at all. Yet here you are bringing articles and things that actually have references, even if sometimes being a little old or a little weak.
And his story just kept growing and growing. The developer apparently went from indie to multi-platinum at some point. Now he is talking big like he can pass some information off on him. It's just... wierd.
It's called entitlement and the p2p players who have it bad demand a gaming experience they would like because they are customers and they are "right", end results: Jedi in SWG, WoW: WotLK, Ultima Online's second expansion, Everquest's current form, etc,etc.
This is why I love EVE, the community maybe mouthy about one issue or another but the only time a majority of players moaned about something was after Incarna and for good bloody reasons, the CQ was poorly implemented, the engine for the damn thing caused more than one GPU card to burst into flames and the shoddy optimization and lack of space game content made people go up in arms and the end result was to put it bluntly worth it, the developer saw that they were neglecting what made their game great for what they thought could make it greater when EVE had so many neglected bits and bobs that needed fixing (hybrids were utterly useless back then, drake blobs were the way to go for pvp fleets, etc,etc) and we're still getting great expansions which fix and improve the space side of things to this day but this case is not the case of entitled players asking for something not in the game, this was a case of customers asking that they stop getting better ice cream sundaes next to their pizza when the pizza formula itself stopped being that good a while back.
Most P2P game communities are not mature enough to have the right to demand anything from the developers and P2P gamers themselves have no right to act as if they're better in any way than a F2P, why? Because you're no smarter or stupider than a F2P gamer if you pay to play a game you enjoy and you're not cheap or stupid for playing a free game without ever spending a damn cent because in either of those games whatever money you bring into the game does not matter in the greater scheme of things, you as a person matter because you and countless others form the very backbone of that online game, its community and if you think anyone's gonna pay to play or even download and just play a MMO without a community then sir you just went full stupid (I dare say even SWTOR wouldn't be played if there wasn't the odd person cropping up from time to time because it's too big of a world to be utterly alone in).
[mod edit]
http://www.gamesindustry.biz is a news source that a lot of us in the industry use because of the nature of the news there (business, press releases, top stories, corporate announcements).
In any case, the argument isn't that F2P is better, it's that F2P is becoming more popular with players. That's all.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Yeh. And "better" is ill-defined anyway. Different players have different preferneces. There is no such thing as a "better" MMO.
In fact, this is quite natural. Some players are willing to pay more than others on the same game ... F2P is tapping into that.
Why even play a free game, when u can pay to be part of a better one. Is it really the money... is it truely phun wasting time in a free game that has zero worth. Just because it is free....
Do people see themselves playing the same free game 3 years later..? No... f2p games are just transient, throw-away games that fill in bordom. They are not full fledged games in which you move your whole vuild too, or hunker-down and plan on staying for a few years.
F2p vames are tbrow-away mediorcre junk that little children like to play because they dont have any money.
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Your evidence is lacking considerably. I am going to be 26 in about a week and I play free to play games. So im clearly not a child. While I do not currently have a job, I did not to long ago. The only reason I don't have a job now is due to moving. I have put plenty of cash into free to play games.
I enjoy free to play games. In fact I have played Mabinogi for over 3 year. I know others in the game who have been around longer then myself. I also enjoy TERA Online which is now free to play as well.
A game is a game. Free to play or not doesn't make it bad. Bad is what makes it bad. Also, zero worth? Are you crazy? How did Nexon become such a huge sucess then? They are certainly full fledged games, or atleast the decent ones are. If it wasn't a full game it would be called an Alpha and wouldn't be released. I have news for you, a free to play game is developed just the same as a retail and pay to play game.
Honestly you shouldn't comment here with your non sense. Statements with out proof is just as mythical as a unicorn driving a car and if I wanted that, I would ask Santa Claus for it.
Source?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You are still off. You took something at the end, out of context, to alter the conversatinon..start a new thread man!
Also, dont edit the quotes for >ME<, do it for everyone so one reply doesnt take up most of the page.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Chalk me up for purchasing the box and a subscription fee. I would not even mind paying a bit more than normal if it would act as a filtering device for certain groups of people.
Ratero.
It seems as if a relatively simple concept has been made overly complex here. F2P games don't exist to cater to players who don't want to pay... rather, they exist because some company did some market research and developed a business plan based on the researched belief that developing a game and marketing it as F2P would make them more money than marketing it as B2P or P2P. It is highly unlikely that said company sat down at their business meeting and asked themselves which marketing model would net them the LEAST cash...
Personally I like F2P. I usually spend more money of F2P games than I do on subscription games. I'm ok with that because I spend money on games that I'm enjoying rather than feeling like I need to enjoy a game because I spent money. Now, admittedly, that's a personal experience, and one you might not share with me. But for me it's F2P all the way.
p2p games are for people with low IQ. They tend to be ppl who are too stupid to know better. Most p2p players live at home and get their moms to pay their subs and only stay in games for years because they can't handle starting over from the bottom.
I made up as much of my post's facts as you did btw.
And as more and more MMO's and players go F2P, MMO's have got worse.
One word. Funding.
Actually, that makes very little sense. Companies don't go free to play to make less money, if they did make less money they wouldn't go free to play.
I am not trying to be too offensive when I say this, but it feels like not to many people here actually think.
Agreed. They might be also older players who have kids and work and they dont have so much time to play mmorpg anymore.. BUT that is not our or developers problem.. People gets old, that happens and it doesnt mean games have to change based on that
People are also still born.
For me ... when I see that game is F2P I dont see myself playing that game for a long time or ever, just because its F2P ''cheap'' game that had to become F2P for some reasons, those reasons are usually because they failed or developers failed with their decisions so now they have to be F2P to lure as many players as possible possible so they make money.
One of the most profitable F2P games for instance .. League of Legends, why do you think they started with F2P. I think because they knew no one would buy the game or pay the subs for it. It might be the best esport and and most played game now but ...it has the worst community I have ever seen, every match you play, ranked or normal, is about how or whatever players are retarded, hate speeches, offensive language, trolls and everything on daily basis. This is because the game is F2p and its filled with every possible player, from 12 years old teenagers, trolls, retards and much more who just love to troll and rage on everyone and everything because they dont have to care, the game is for freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. So even if some F2P game was the BEST game ever made I would not play it just because of all those milions trolls and retards.
Conclusion:
For me, It doesnt matter if P2P makes less or money money. ALL what matters is how good community is and what are the goals of the developers with the game. Here P2P wins by a long shot.
Zynga games have 300 million ... players and is broke. Free to play is to avoid shutting down former AAA games, while for B games it is a way to avoid taxes on other activities.
What you see is an MMORPG industry losing players because of all that garbage out there.
And unfortunately this site and others hyped way too much turds on the way.
Here is my last post on this matter and I will not reply to anyone else or respond. This is the end result, fact, and there is no argueing about it.
1. Free to play is a viable bussiness model and many companies have already proven this.
2. Free to play doesn't mean the game is bad.
3. Free to play makes just as much money as pay to play.
4. Pay to play is more likely to have a better communtiy.
5. Free to play doesn't mean it was a former game that failed. (Example: All nexon games are free to play from the start)
6. The Free to play market is still rising. (Crytek is looking to go free to play in a few years and create AAA free to play titles)
Keep in mind all these points are 100% facts and are well known by the game industry.
By responding to this post with a disagreement you agree you are not smart.
Thank you, and good day to those who are smart.
The f2p money making behemoths is Nexons maplestory and Zyngas Farmville and thier key demographics are teens who spends their pocket money on random shit becuase they cant aford 800 to 1000 euros gaming PCs plus subbed based mmos.
So who are all of these players? They're relatively young, though not as young as you might expect. "Our median age is really 17, 18, 19," says Kim. "That's the peak of our curve." And many of Nexon's players aren't gamers, or at least aren't online gamers. "A lot of our users, Maple Story is their first MMORPG. They've been playing games, but they haven't been playing online games, so this is their first online experience." Kim says that most ofMapleStory's players only got into it because they were asked to play by friends, and the reason they jump in rather than playing a game like World of Warcraft is that "there's no barrier to entry. If they have a computer and an internet connection, they can download the game and play for as long as they want."
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/02/07/nexon-americas-pre-paid-card-empire/
"worse" in your opinion.
So i guess you will quit MMO at some point because the trend is pretty clear.
Only tells us, that six out of seven players are too poor to pay a fair price for a good game.
Oh... and F2P-titles are all not good, and I've tested basically every freakin' MMO released in the last 10 years.
If that was truly the case, the F2P business model would not be profitable, and arguable more than many P2Ps (otherwise why would they swap to the F2P model, right?). Those 6 out of 7 players are not "too poor to pay", they're playing the game they like and paying what they want to.
The F2P-business works, as underaged gamers pour tons of money into these games, most usually with the money from their unaware parents.
Additionally. Show me a game that went from P2P to F2P that was actually good to begin with.